? WTF

[sugerbear]

http://www.miamiherald.com/2010/07/14/1730126/montana-sex-education-proposal.html

all i can say is .........................why?

i'm embarrassed for the whole country.

just sad

[CISE]

The plan actually seesm to cover things kids already learn at those grade levels.

[Big Rig]

What happened to parenting? Why is this left to schools?

I am sorry I would prefer that my 1st and 2nd grader not be taught about same sex relationships. When they have questions about life, they know to come to me with them.

On a lighter note, they did not say they would be teaching them that stuff in Spanish!

[valkMJ]

My friend is a teacher, and she has had to deal with sex education in elementary school.  One of the stupidest things I've heard so far is that they discuss anatomy, and they discuss pregnancy, but they're not allowed to talk about intercourse.  So when the kids ask "So how does the sperm get to the egg?", they are forbidden from explaining it.

Long story short, people need to grow up and realize that most kids are already aware of this stuff, and we need to make sure they understand it correctly, rather than getting all their facts from Billy on the playground.   

[Bobbo]

I don’t know about the erotic art or teaching different sexual positions, but the part about teaching that homosexual relationships exist may not be bad.  This might end some confusion when children see same sex couples depicted on TV, in Internet content, and in real life.  To be aware of it does not convey endorsement, but possibly tolerance.  This may head off future violence towards people viewed as different, whether it is sexual preference, race, or religion.

If a child learns about humanity at a young age, and has questions beyond the school material, it would be the parent’s responsibly to teach any moral and religious values associated with it.

[fiddle mike]

What happened to parenting? Why is this left to schools?

I am sorry I would prefer that my 1st and 2nd grader not be taught about same sex relationships. When they have questions about life, they know to come to me with them.

On a lighter note, they did not say they would be teaching them that stuff in Spanish!

I agree with you. Teaching the the mechanics of reproduction is enough.

"I don't know that anything needs to be taken out," [Beaver] said. "Some of it might be age inappropriate. We are going to have to consider how we teach it and when we teach it."
That's not what I call good judgment, to begin with, or accountability to the parents.

[fstsix]

My Grandchildren are Home Schooled Thank God!! The Government is NOT! their Mommy! Just a way for the Liberal mined to breed more, The public School system is FAILED. But just throw more money at them, and it will solve all our problems LOL!!!

[valkMJ]

My Grandchildren are Home Schooled Thank God!! The Government is NOT! their Mommy! Just a way for the Liberal mined to breed more, The public School system is FAILED. But just throw more money at them, and it will solve all our problems LOL!!!

I went through the public school system, and I turned out just fine.   ???



I do agree that a lot of the responsibility for teaching sex ed should be on the shoulders of parents.  By the time I was in elementary school, I already knew the mechanics and the biology of reproduction.  And that's because my parents took the time to teach me, rather than relying on the schools to do all the work for them. 

[fiddle mike]

My Grandchildren are Home Schooled Thank God!! The Government is NOT! their Mommy! Just a way for the Liberal mined to breed more, The public School system is FAILED. But just throw more money at them, and it will solve all our problems LOL!!!

Your grand kids are fortunate.  My kids went to a pretty good public school and I still had to set them straight on a few things taught there.

At a PTA meeting, some admin type was spouting off  when a sweet old granny was heard to say, " He'd better watch his mouth or one of these fishermen is going to knock him on his ass." 
Feedback can still become interactive, where I live.   

[Bobbo]

My kids went to a pretty good public school and I still had to set them straight on a few things taught there.

I'm just curious as to what you had to set them straight on?

[Bobbo]

My Grandchildren are Home Schooled Thank God!! The Government is NOT! their Mommy! Just a way for the Liberal mined to breed more

If the public schools breed liberal minded people, what breeds closed minded people?!   ???

The public School system is FAILED. But just throw more money at them, and it will solve all our problems LOL!!!

What has failed in public schools?  Ours in St. Chuck, MO are pretty good.  If you are referring to inner-city schools, I might agree, but that has a lot to do with the local school board, and not public schools in general.

[fstsix]

That"s nice for you who have had good luck. My HS ? I turned out just fine from my parents LOL, My youngest adopted son was not so fortunate, But with a little help from a Educational Lawyer that represented the City next to me, The Principal just had to Amend his transcripts that were falsified from a couple of Teachers.....oh and after they dropped him off the Varsity football team because his GPA supposedly was too low ? When i removed him from this school the Principle opened his desk and told me Here.....give your son his Letter he was a Letterman, that he was screwed out of and said he was sorry.....I did not sue...BTW here was my HS back in LA they actually made a movie of it, What you would call Hell i called home for 35 years. http://www.moviedir.com/download/one-eight-seven-movie-5569.html

[fiddle mike]

My kids went to a pretty good public school and I still had to set them straight on a few things taught there.

I'm just curious as to what you had to set them straight on?

Revisionist history, mostly.  The War Between the States, the Kennedys and MLK, that sort of thing. Also that zero tolerance didn't mean that they anyone's door mat.

[Chrisj CMA]

My friend is a teacher, and she has had to deal with sex education in elementary school.  One of the stupidest things I've heard so far is that they discuss anatomy, and they discuss pregnancy, but they're not allowed to talk about intercourse.  So when the kids ask "So how does the sperm get to the egg?", they are forbidden from explaining it.

Long story short, people need to grow up and realize that most kids are already aware of this stuff, and we need to make sure they understand it correctly, rather than getting all their facts from Billy on the playground.  

We need grow up?   lol.....if you look at the whole agenda, its really a pro homosexual agenda....all the sex ed talk is to distract people from talking about the fact they are teaching them at grade school age its ok to have sexual feelings for someone of the same sex.  While that is an opinion that many may choose to hold (and Im ok with THEIR decision), its not something Id want anyone telling my kid while they are there to be schooled.  No kid of mine would darken a  door in that school EVER!

[Jeff K]

If the public schools breed liberal minded people, what breeds closed minded people?!   ???

Joanne's quote of the day

"Liberals are so open minded... their brains have fallen out!"
 

[hubcapsc]

My friend is a teacher, and she has had to deal with sex education in elementary school.  One of the stupidest things I've heard so far is that they discuss anatomy, and they discuss pregnancy, but they're not allowed to talk about intercourse.  So when the kids ask "So how does the sperm get to the egg?", they are forbidden from explaining it.

Long story short, people need to grow up and realize that most kids are already aware of this stuff, and we need to make sure they understand it correctly, rather than getting all their facts from Billy on the playground.  

We need grow up?   lol.....if you look at the whole agenda, its really a pro homosexual agenda....all the sex ed talk is to distract people from talking about the fact they are teaching them at grade school age its ok to have sexual feelings for someone of the same sex.  While that is an opinion that many may choose to hold (and Im ok with THEIR decision), its not something Id want anyone telling my kid while they are there to be schooled.  No kid of mine would darken a  door in that school EVER!

Bingo. The agenda is to normalize homosexuality. When little Billy brings home his first date and it's
little Jimmy from next door, it is to be normal, regular, not taboo.

-Mike

[Chrisj CMA]

My friend is a teacher, and she has had to deal with sex education in elementary school.  One of the stupidest things I've heard so far is that they discuss anatomy, and they discuss pregnancy, but they're not allowed to talk about intercourse.  So when the kids ask "So how does the sperm get to the egg?", they are forbidden from explaining it.

Long story short, people need to grow up and realize that most kids are already aware of this stuff, and we need to make sure they understand it correctly, rather than getting all their facts from Billy on the playground.  

We need grow up?   lol.....if you look at the whole agenda, its really a pro homosexual agenda....all the sex ed talk is to distract people from talking about the fact they are teaching them at grade school age its ok to have sexual feelings for someone of the same sex.  While that is an opinion that many may choose to hold (and Im ok with THEIR decision), its not something Id want anyone telling my kid while they are there to be schooled.  No kid of mine would darken a  door in that school EVER!

Bingo. The agenda is to normalize homosexuality. When little Billy brings home his first date and it's
little Jimmy from next door, it is to be normal, regular, not taboo.

-Mike

Exactly Mike.........and THAT should not be the job of our schools.  People are going to be all over the place on what they believe.  But kids should not be taught what to believe on this.  They should be taught how to learn math, science, language, sports....etc. 

Its just as ok to believe that homosexuality is wrong in Gods eyes therefore mine.  But you watch what would happen in this day and age if that would be introduced as a lesson plan.

What kids need to be shown (not just taught in schools) is that no matter what you think a person is doing right or wrong, they are  person that God loves and you dont HATE someone because they disagree with you.

[RoadKill]

Many of the returning soldiers here talk about "Man love Thursday" in Iraq.  It seems that in that culture women are for procreation and men are for pleasure. Is that the next "family planning" or form of birth control to be taught in schools? We can be just like Islam!!!!   

[junior]

just put some porn in the class and teach the kids hand to hand combat in phis ed, and dont forget gun control 101 = kill what you point the wepon at.................

[Bobbo]

Many of the returning soldiers here talk about "Man love Thursday" in Iraq.  It seems that in that culture women are for procreation and men are for pleasure. Is that the next "family planning" or form of birth control to be taught in schools? We can be just like Islam!!!!   

Sexual use of men (usually young boys) by upper class men was common in the Mediterranean area as far back as Roman times and before.  They didn’t associate a stigma with it as in modern day America.  This behavior wasn’t associated with a particular religion, but with the culture.

[Bobbo]

We need grow up?   lol.....if you look at the whole agenda, its really a pro homosexual agenda....all the sex ed talk is to distract people from talking about the fact they are teaching them at grade school age its ok to have sexual feelings for someone of the same sex.  While that is an opinion that many may choose to hold (and Im ok with THEIR decision), its not something Id want anyone telling my kid while they are there to be schooled.  No kid of mine would darken a  door in that school EVER!

If you believe that homosexuality is a chosen option, can you please describe how long you considered being a homosexual before choosing your preference?

[Bobbo]

Joanne's quote of the day

"Liberals are so open minded... their brains have fallen out!"
 

And closed minded people are so closed minded that their brains have shrink to the size of a pea?!

    

[Chrisj CMA]

Many of the returning soldiers here talk about "Man love Thursday" in Iraq.  It seems that in that culture women are for procreation and men are for pleasure. Is that the next "family planning" or form of birth control to be taught in schools? We can be just like Islam!!!!   

Sexual use of men (usually young boys) by upper class men was common in the Mediterranean area as far back as Roman times and before.  They didn’t associate a stigma with it as in modern day America.  This behavior wasn’t associated with a particular religion, but with the culture.

It doesnt matter how long its been practiced or who did/does it......God put plainly in his word how he feels about it, so for anyone that claims to trust the Bible as the Word of God, its not ok.

Yes there will always be homosexuals, and there will always be this social/moral predicament.......Its just not ok (in my book) for the schools to teach our kids its now ok, simply not their place

What they should teach is the acceptance of all people and the difference between loving a person and hating the sin.

[hubcapsc]

Sexual use of men (usually young boys) by upper class men was common in the Mediterranean area as far back as Roman times and before.  They didn’t associate a stigma with it as in modern day America. 

There is a full scale movement afoot to fix it where we don't associate a stigma to it in the US.

-Mike

[Bobbo]

It doesnt matter how long its been practiced or who did/does it......God put plainly in his word how he feels about it, so for anyone that claims to trust the Bible as the Word of God, its not ok.

And you are 100% within your rights to not practice homosexuality and live your personal life as you see fit.  This does not mean that laws should be created to govern all people based on personal beliefs.

Yes there will always be homosexuals, and there will always be this social/moral predicament.......Its just not ok (in my book) for the schools to teach our kids its now ok, simply not their place

What they should teach is the acceptance of all people and the difference between loving a person and hating the sin.

My understanding is that schools are teaching that homosexuality exists and that it’s wrong to attack someone because of it.  It is then up to the parents to explain their particular viewpoints and any moral or religious values that are associated with it.

I don’t believe schools should be in the business of identifying “sins” and prescribing hate towards them.

[Chrisj CMA]

It doesnt matter how long its been practiced or who did/does it......God put plainly in his word how he feels about it, so for anyone that claims to trust the Bible as the Word of God, its not ok.

And you are 100% within your rights to not practice homosexuality and live your personal life as you see fit.  This does not mean that laws should be created to govern all people based on personal beliefs.

Yes there will always be homosexuals, and there will always be this social/moral predicament.......Its just not ok (in my book) for the schools to teach our kids its now ok, simply not their place

What they should teach is the acceptance of all people and the difference between loving a person and hating the sin.

My understanding is that schools are teaching that homosexuality exists and that it’s wrong to attack someone because of it.  It is then up to the parents to explain their particular viewpoints and any moral or religious values that are associated with it.

I don’t believe schools should be in the business of identifying “sins” and prescribing hate towards them.

If thats your understanding...then you dont have much contact with those that work in public schools.............there certainly is a move afoot to normalize homosexuality, not just describe what  it is.....

[Bobbo]

If thats your understanding...then you dont have much contact with those that work in public schools.............there certainly is a move afoot to normalize homosexuality, not just describe what  it is.....

To say the schools are trying to “normalize homosexuality” is misguided.  Behavioral science does not characterize homosexuality as a mental illness or abnormality, so it cannot be “normalized”.  If you are suggesting that schools are encouraging or promoting homosexuality, then you may want to reconsider which teachers you have contact with.

[hubcapsc]

To say the schools are trying to “normalize homosexuality” is misguided.  Behavioral science does not characterize homosexuality as a mental illness or abnormality, so it cannot be “normalized”.  If you are suggesting that schools are encouraging or promoting homosexuality, then you may want to reconsider which teachers you have contact with.

Bobbo's not listening.

Heretofore homosexuality has been taboo in society. There is a move afoot to normalize it in society.

It used to be classed a mental illness before the move to normalize it gained enough strength, now
they talk about "difference in brain structure" and search for "gay genes" (see Chandler Burr "A Separate Creation"
or the May 2000 edition of The American Biology Teacher or a million other places)...

-Mike

[Chrisj CMA]

To say the schools are trying to “normalize homosexuality” is misguided.  Behavioral science does not characterize homosexuality as a mental illness or abnormality, so it cannot be “normalized”.  If you are suggesting that schools are encouraging or promoting homosexuality, then you may want to reconsider which teachers you have contact with.

Bobbo's not listening.

Heretofore homosexuality has been taboo in society. There is a move afoot to normalize it in society.

It used to be classed a mental illness before the move to normalize it gained enough strength, now
they talk about "difference in brain structure" and search for "gay genes" (see Chandler Burr "A Separate Creation"
or the May 2000 edition of The American Biology Teacher or a million other places)...

-Mike

excatly Mike,  Soon we that think homosexuality is abnormal behavior will be labeled with some kind of disorder

[Bobbo]

Heretofore homosexuality has been taboo in society. There is a move afoot to normalize it in society.

It used to be classed a mental illness before the move to normalize it gained enough strength, now
they talk about "difference in brain structure" and search for "gay genes" (see Chandler Burr "A Separate Creation"
or the May 2000 edition of The American Biology Teacher or a million other places)...

-Mike

Homosexuality was taboo in some societies, certainly not all (see previous posts).

The “move to normalize it” as you call it was based on the fact that no research was done to show that this was a mental illness, thus it had no reason to be listed.  The most likely reason it was characterized as abnormal was due to religious beliefs and not to scientific study.  The book you recommend actually takes this a step further to investigate the possibility of a genetic explanation. 

Traits like red hair, freckles, and blue eyes can be traced to genetic differences.  Are these also considered abnormal?
 

[Bobbo]

excatly Mike,  Soon we that think homosexuality is abnormal behavior will be labeled with some kind of disorder

Not a disorder, just ill-informed.

[3fan4life]

Sexual use of men (usually young boys) by upper class men was common in the Mediterranean area as far back as Roman times and before.  They didn’t associate a stigma with it as in modern day America.  This behavior wasn’t associated with a particular religion, but with the culture.

I must be totally misinformed here........ because I thought that the penalty for Homosexuality in Islamic nations was "DEATH".


The big picture here is........ SHOULD IT BE OK FOR 1st and 2nd graders to be taught "ANYTHING" about sex???

Remember that we're talking about 6 and 7 yr olds here.

IMHO: That is just TOO YOUNG for the topic.

[3fan4life]

If you believe that homosexuality is a chosen option, can you please describe how long you considered being a homosexual before choosing your preference?

First I'm going to preface this with: WHAT PEOPLE DO IN THEIR BEDROOMS IS THEIR BUSINESS.

With that said I do believe that there is a movement afoot to get homosexuality accepted as normal.

Well, if it's normal then it is a "CHOICE"

If it isn't normal then it is some type of "GENETIC MISPROGRAMING"

What is obvious is that it CAN'T be BOTH.



The only thing that Jerry Falwell ever said that I agree with is that:

"Homosexuality is a crime against nature".

[Bobbo]

I must be totally misinformed here........ because I thought that the penalty for Homosexuality in Islamic nations was "DEATH".

It depends on the Islamic nation.  Some allow it, some give jail time, and some death.  As I said, culture, not religion, is the factor.

The big picture here is........ SHOULD IT BE OK FOR 1st and 2nd graders to be taught "ANYTHING" about sex???

Remember that we're talking about 6 and 7 yr olds here.

IMHO: That is just TOO YOUNG for the topic.

Homosexual relationships involve much more than sex.  To teach that those relationships exist is probably a good thing.  I don’t know about you, but I and everyone I know had a pretty good idea about what sex was by the end of first grade!        Some of it wrong, and some right.

[Bobbo]

With that said I do believe that there is a movement afoot to get homosexuality accepted as normal.

Well, if it's normal then it is a "CHOICE"

If it isn't normal then it is some type of "GENETIC MISPROGRAMING"

What is obvious is that it CAN'T be BOTH.

Is being left handed normal?  If it is, would that also a choice?

The only thing that Jerry Falwell ever said that I agree with is that:

"Homosexuality is a crime against nature".

I’m guessing Jerry Falwell said this because homosexual sex doesn’t produce offspring.  There are many ways heterosexuals can have sex without involving pregnancy.  Are these also “crimes against nature”?

Since a 60 year old man can get an 11 year old girl pregnant, is that considered “natural” by the Jerry standard you have accepted?

[Chrisj CMA]

Homosexuality has been around since sex has been around.  People have been murdering each other since there has been people.  Alchololics have been getting drunk since we invented alchololic drinks.

Each of these things can be linked to traits that people can be born with, so some say God Created them.  Well, I understand the complexity of that argument, however I choose not to get entangled therein right now.  What I do want to say is that even though someone may feel they were "born that way"  Each of these things are specifically outlined in the Bible as not ok with God. 

So this I know is true.....even if someone has a strong desire toward something that God says no to....by refraining from that, he lives out the scripture.......take up your cross, die to self, and follow me.  God is glorified when these temptations are not followed through on by a Christian.

AMEN

[G-Man]

What has failed in public schools?  Ours in St. Chuck, MO are pretty good.  If you are referring to inner-city schools, I might agree, but that has a lot to do with the local school board, and not public schools in general.

And the lack of parenting!

[3fan4life]

Homosexual relationships involve much more than sex.  To teach that those relationships exist is probably a good thing.  I don’t know about you, but I and everyone I know had a pretty good idea about what sex was by the end of first grade!        Some of it wrong, and some right.

I can't say that I knew ANYTHING about sex in the first or second grade.

I don't even remember any conscious thoughts about it until about fifth grade (age 10 or 11).

There is a difference between teaching that something exists and going into detail about it.

The following is a JOKE:

  A Tough Question

An 8-year-old girl went to her dad, who was working in the yard. She asked him, "Daddy, what is sex?"

The father was surprised that she would ask such a question, but decides that if she is old enough to ask the question, then she is old enough to get a straight answer. He proceeded to tell her all about the "birds and the bees."

When he finished explaining, the little girl was looking at him with her mouth hanging open. The father asked her, "Why did you ask this question?"

The little girl replied, "Mom told me to tell you that dinner would be ready in just a couple of secs."


What makes this funny is that the father went into much more detail than was necessary and he obviously didn't understand the question in the first place.

Young Kids don't need or want all of the details on a subject, usually a very simplistic answer will do.
 

[Bobbo]

What has failed in public schools?  Ours in St. Chuck, MO are pretty good.  If you are referring to inner-city schools, I might agree, but that has a lot to do with the local school board, and not public schools in general.

And the lack of parenting!

That is also a factor.   

[3fan4life]

Is being left handed normal?  If it is, would that also a choice?

Left handedness was once considered to be taboo. And lefthanded kids were forced to "learn" to use their right hand.

I know this because my father was one of those kids.

I am left handed and all of my brothers are left handed and you would be correct in saying that I didn't consciously choose this.

What I said earlier was that homosexuality is either a choice or genetic misprogramming it can't be both. I still stand behind that statement. I didn't say which one I think that it is.

Since a 60 year old man can get an 11 year old girl pregnant, is that considered “natural” by the Jerry standard you have accepted?

What a way to comepletely go off the rails here....