And we wonder about the animosity between Harley guys and the rest of us

[Willow]

I generally try to stay away from the Harley bashing, but Mama and I did have an interesting experience yesterday.

We ran up on a small Harley on the flyway.  As we approached he looked over his shoulder, grimaced, dropped a gear and turned the throttle hard.  I could easily hear his engine screaming and I really didn't want to show him up, so I just eased back on my right hand and gently, respectfully slipped past him.  I showed him the two fingered greeting as I went past and he returned a thumbs up.

I hope he wasn't too embarrassed when a girl on a Valkyrie came past behind me.

It's not the bike. It's just a few riders who've been victimized by the indoctrination.      

[vanagon40]

Give me a break.

All Harley riders are snobs and jerks because they all stereotype riders who do not ride Harleys and disparage their bikes.

All Valkyrie riders are NOT snobs or jerks because they all stereotype riders who ride Harleys and disparage their bikes.

WHAT AM I MISSING HERE?

[hotglue #43]

Give me a break.

All Harley riders are snobs and jerks because they all stereotype riders who do not ride Harleys and disparage their bikes.

All Valkyrie riders are NOT snobs or jerks because they all stereotype riders who ride Harleys and disparage their bikes.

WHAT AM I MISSING HERE?

HG sez
There are jerks on all bikes....BUT.. If I see ya brokedown on the road, I will stop ta help.....I carry a full set of metric tools on my harley....

[SANDMAN5]

Give me a break.

All Harley riders are snobs and jerks because they all stereotype riders who do not ride Harleys and disparage their bikes.

All Valkyrie riders are NOT snobs or jerks because they all stereotype riders who ride Harleys and disparage their bikes.

WHAT AM I MISSING HERE?

You're missing pretty much ALL of it! If somebody had several hours to kill, they could
count up all the times over,say, the last 3 months that someone posted here that NOT
(let me say that again..NOT) all harley riders act this way. Same way with the Valk
riders.

[hotglue #43]

I thinks he gets it... read the second sentence.....Doesn't matter what ya ride... get yer knees in the breeze!!!!!!  Be kind to yer fellow riders!

[Disco]

I try to wave at all the bikes I see.  I, like most of us, get frustrated when a look is returned, but the wave is not.  I wonder how many regret their wave when they realize the batwing fooled them.  Who cares?  Their loss.  In fact, I've been teased about waving at cages who don't turn left in front of me or don't enter the roadway until I've passed.  I don't care - I'm trying to be a goodwill ambassador for all who ride.  I especially like waving at the old folks on the front porch in small towns who are just sitting there watching the world go by.  And the little kids who think motorcycles are cool - we were all there once... 

That said, I've never been so blatantly snubbed as when we rode our metrics through Wisconsin on the way home from InZane.  I guess I should not have been surprised, but I had not thought about it beforehand and was not prepared.  It was really interesting two days later when we crossed the Red River into Texas and passed several groups of HDs and everyone waved.  That's not always the case, but was a nice "welcome home".

[Valkahuna]

Wow! Being both a H-D rider, and a Valk rider I hate reading this stuff. Some of you guys get it, while others have such a huge chip on your shoulders that anything that says Harley Davidson on it gets your blood boiling, and your minds racing to come up with witty things to say.

I love both of my bikes (actually all three, but I don't ride the '77 BMW all that much) and both have very special things about them that make them different from each other, but each with a common denominator - two wheels. And right there is the important part that does make us brothers.

I act the same and salute or wave to every bike that I meet on the road, whether I am riding my RoadGlide, or my Valkyrie, and typically get the same back in return. I meet stubborn, stuck up bikers whether I am on my HD or my Honda. That is just the way it is.

I think that I do see the problem though. I bought my HD new in '99 and my IS is a '01. When I look at the base techology in each bike, the Valk has it all over the HD. It is faster, smoother, handles better, stops better and is certainly a better value for the dollar. So, maybe that is what makes the HD guys have a chip on their shoulders.

But while the Valk is definately a superior performer, there is just something about how you feel on a HD. And also how you are perceived by non riders when you are on a Harley. People stop and talk to me all the time to tell me how good my Harley looks, and how they would like to buy one when they get the money, grow up, get healthy (insert whatever fits here). Like it or not, it is America's bike, and even if the content was 75% foreign it would still be thought of by everyone as "the American Icon". And that is probably what puts the chip on a non Harley riders shoulder. And probably rightfully so.

When new, the HD was about $3,000 more than a new Valk. Sure I added lots of money to it, but that was by choice. It would have been comfortable and reliable without it as well. But now, even though my Valk is two years newer (I just recently bought it) and has only about 9,000 miles on it (which is about one sixth of what is on the HD) the HD is worth a good bit more. By the way, I am putting a lot of money into the Valk for all the little chrome doo-dats we just can't seem to be able to do without, and man, they are EXPENSIVE for the Valk (the term Rape comes to mind actually -  try buying a set of bag rails or an exhaust system). Even so, the HD commands a much higher retained value than the Valk has. And I have to say this, nothing has the fit , chrome, and paint of a Harley either, and that probably adds a ton to the weight of the chip on a non Harley rider's shoulder.

So, here is the bottom line. There is bias, snobbery, envy, and misunderstanding on both sides. And it shoujld not be like that. We are all brothers in the wind. Every group of riders/owners has their own set of habits, customs, or things that are hard to swallow or understand. Sure, Harley riders want to look like bad boys, but when you see a group of BMW riders pull in, and you see the gear that they have, it is no different. To us they look strange, but to their own they look and act quite normal. We all want to emaulate and fit in with the group that we are with.

Well, here is a newsflash! We are all part of the same group - Motorcycle riders!!! And that is the important thing. What we ride means not a lot. I wish you all could be in my shoes, and love both of the brands of bikes you ride, and each group of the guys that love their bikes are my buddies. So lets have a little more of an open mind, and not be so quick to condem "the other guys". I don't care what you ride, if it has two wheels, you are my brother. I am just as apt to stop to check on a rider on the side of the road if you are on an old Kawie, a Valk, Wing, or even if I don't recognize the bike.

And remember, just like there are good guys riding different makes, there are also lots of a$$h*les as well. Just try to avoid them, or walk away from them. Let's give eanch other the benefit of the doubt.

Sorry to be long winded, but this thread strikes a chord with me, and is a subject near and dear to me.

[TGViper]

nuff said right there....  well put.  Let's just ride.

[hotglue #43]

I hear ya Valkahuna... hey... I even used ta carry whitworth tools on the bike.... but not many Nortons out there now...LOL...
Knees in the Breeze!!!!!!  the rest is ... well you know.....

[Errandboy]

I see no harm in a little friendly banter, so at the risk of annoying those who have read this before, I will repeat for the benefit of those who have not, my favorite story.  I have a friend that has an unofficial Harley shop that specializes in older Harleys and customs.  He is also a master welder and I  happened to need a welding job on my first or second Valkyrie.  (My present one is my fourth.)  I stripped the Valk down for his artistic touch and needed to trailer it to his shop.  He offered me the use of his trailer that he uses to transport motorcycles, a small snowmobile tilt trailer.  That little trailer was dwarfed with the big old Valkyrie on it... I had to open up the fixture in front in order to get the Valkyrie's front tire into it, but managed to get it to his shop.

Upon arrival, he hollered at me across the shop, populated by several typical Harley enthusiastic Harley mechanics:  "How did that trailer work out for you?"  I replied equally loudly for the benefit of the mechanics:  "That little trailer might be just fine for Schwinns and Harleys, but it's way too small for a full size motorcycle!"  I made no new friends that day.

[Valkahuna]

Hotglue,

I rode a Norton (G15 CS) in the early '70's and could have used those Whitworth tools a couple of times.

Ride safe, and if I see you, I'll wave...

[Valkahuna]

I see no harm in a little friendly banter, so at the risk of annoying those who have read this before, I will repeat for the benefit of those who have not, my favorite story.  I have a friend that has an unofficial Harley shop that specializes in older Harleys and customs.  He is also a master welder and I  happened to need a welding job on my first or second Valkyrie.  (My present one is my fourth.)  I stripped the Valk down for his artistic touch and needed to trailer it to his shop.  He offered me the use of his trailer that he uses to transport motorcycles, a small snowmobile tilt trailer.  That little trailer was dwarfed with the big old Valkyrie on it... I had to open up the fixture in front in order to get the Valkyrie's front tire into it, but managed to get it to his shop.

Upon arrival, he hollered at me across the shop, populated by several typical Harley enthusiastic Harley mechanics:  "How did that trailer work out for you?"  I replied equally loudly for the benefit of the mechanics:  "That little trailer might be just fine for Schwinns and Harleys, but it's way too small for a full size motorcycle!"  I made no new friends that day.

That is a good little story, and you're right. That is good banter and nobody is going to shoot you for saying that.

[vanagon40]

Give me a break.

All Harley riders are snobs and jerks because they all stereotype riders who do not ride Harleys and disparage their bikes.

All Valkyrie riders are NOT snobs or jerks because they all stereotype riders who ride Harleys and disparage their bikes.

WHAT AM I MISSING HERE?

You're missing pretty much ALL of it! If somebody had several hours to kill, they could
count up all the times over,say, the last 3 months that someone posted here that NOT
(let me say that again..NOT) all harley riders act this way. Same way with the Valk
riders.

And if somebody had several hours to kill, they could count up all the times over, say, the last three months that someone posted here that many (or all) Harley riders act this way.  Same with the Valk riders.

My point is that when I read the title of the thread, "And we wonder about the animosity between Harley guys and the rest of us," I thought maybe the OP had started a thread to complain that the animosity was unjustified.  But it turned out to be just another Harley rider disparages Honda thread, that rapidly evolved into another Honda riders disparage Harley thread.

I recognize that not all Harley riders act this way and not all Valk riders act this way, but using this thread as an example, I can only assume that a lot of Valkyrie riders DO act this way.

[96valk]

You just never can tell. I've had H-D riders who can't get over the Valks and l how big they are. And I have had Valk riders  - stock purists- be snobs because both of mine are modified   We need to respect anyone on two wheels  BOB

[Jabba]

I have a lot of HD buds.  My sister and Brother-in-Law.  A co-worker.  A great friend from high school has 2, and a guy I was in the Navy with has 3.  In fact, he rode into Inzane X with me on his Ultra-Classic.  They are all VERY cool.  Tim (My Navy bud) is the guy with the HD Low Rider that I brag about so often.  I rode it again last week, and the thing is a flat out MONSTER.  180 HP.  I have seen dyno slips for 157 HP, and he claims it's 30 more now.  Either way... it'll SMOKE my valks.

I never start crap with anyone.  But I don't TAKE any crap either.  They start mouthing, and I'll come right back.  Some guys... very cool.  More than not IMO.  But you get a few... usually the guys who REALLY can't afford one, but spent their kids lunch money on it anyway.  Those are the wanks I don't like.  The ones that ask me if I need a broom to sweep up the rice under my bike.  I always ask if they need kitty litter for theirs.  I offered a race to a guy once... and he gave me the not HP but tourque BS.  I offered to tie our bikes ass to ass and see who drug who around the parking lot.  I'll often tell them that if I wanted a vibrator... I'd borrow one from their ol'lady.  That'll get a guy ready to fight too... but the ones running their mouths are not usually the ones that have enough self confidence to fight me anyway.  The guys that are self confident, and not ankle yippers are cool anyway.

I see a guy pretty often on a Road King wearing Hells Angels Indiana colors.  (I didn't know Indiana HAD Hells Angels) Ever that guy's cool to me.  Of course when it's 30 degrees out, he and I are usually the only bikes on the road, and he knows, from seeing me year after year, that I am a rider.

Jabba     

[Popeye]

Wow! Being both a H-D rider, and a Valk rider I hate reading this stuff. Some of you guys get it, while others have such a huge chip on your shoulders that anything that says Harley Davidson on it gets your blood boiling, and your minds racing to come up with witty things to say.

I love both of my bikes (actually all three, but I don't ride the '77 BMW all that much) and both have very special things about them that make them different from each other, but each with a common denominator - two wheels. And right there is the important part that does make us brothers.

I act the same and salute or wave to every bike that I meet on the road, whether I am riding my RoadGlide, or my Valkyrie, and typically get the same back in return. I meet stubborn, stuck up bikers whether I am on my HD or my Honda. That is just the way it is.

I think that I do see the problem though. I bought my HD new in '99 and my IS is a '01. When I look at the base techology in each bike, the Valk has it all over the HD. It is faster, smoother, handles better, stops better and is certainly a better value for the dollar. So, maybe that is what makes the HD guys have a chip on their shoulders.

But while the Valk is definately a superior performer, there is just something about how you feel on a HD. And also how you are perceived by non riders when you are on a Harley. People stop and talk to me all the time to tell me how good my Harley looks, and how they would like to buy one when they get the money, grow up, get healthy (insert whatever fits here). Like it or not, it is America's bike, and even if the content was 75% foreign it would still be thought of by everyone as "the American Icon". And that is probably what puts the chip on a non Harley riders shoulder. And probably rightfully so.

When new, the HD was about $3,000 more than a new Valk. Sure I added lots of money to it, but that was by choice. It would have been comfortable and reliable without it as well. But now, even though my Valk is two years newer (I just recently bought it) and has only about 9,000 miles on it (which is about one sixth of what is on the HD) the HD is worth a good bit more. By the way, I am putting a lot of money into the Valk for all the little chrome doo-dats we just can't seem to be able to do without, and man, they are EXPENSIVE for the Valk (the term Rape comes to mind actually -  try buying a set of bag rails or an exhaust system). Even so, the HD commands a much higher retained value than the Valk has. And I have to say this, nothing has the fit , chrome, and paint of a Harley either, and that probably adds a ton to the weight of the chip on a non Harley rider's shoulder.

So, here is the bottom line. There is bias, snobbery, envy, and misunderstanding on both sides. And it shoujld not be like that. We are all brothers in the wind. Every group of riders/owners has their own set of habits, customs, or things that are hard to swallow or understand. Sure, Harley riders want to look like bad boys, but when you see a group of BMW riders pull in, and you see the gear that they have, it is no different. To us they look strange, but to their own they look and act quite normal. We all want to emaulate and fit in with the group that we are with.

Well, here is a newsflash! We are all part of the same group - Motorcycle riders!!! And that is the important thing. What we ride means not a lot. I wish you all could be in my shoes, and love both of the brands of bikes you ride, and each group of the guys that love their bikes are my buddies. So lets have a little more of an open mind, and not be so quick to condem "the other guys". I don't care what you ride, if it has two wheels, you are my brother. I am just as apt to stop to check on a rider on the side of the road if you are on an old Kawie, a Valk, Wing, or even if I don't recognize the bike.

And remember, just like there are good guys riding different makes, there are also lots of a$$h*les as well. Just try to avoid them, or walk away from them. Let's give eanch other the benefit of the doubt.

Sorry to be long winded, but this thread strikes a chord with me, and is a subject near and dear to me.

+1 Very Well said

[..]

I have ridden with many, many Valkyrie and other Honda riders who DO NOT acknowledge any other rider regardless of bike make.

[RainMaker]

There are times I don't wave to other riders.  Not because I am inherently a snob - sometimes I'm concentrating on the road ahead or the group I'm in and either see the rider too late or not at all.  Happens a lot on multi-lane roads.  Or I'm in a place where I really need to keep both hands on the bars.  I wave a lot, but I admit, I am not a 100%'er.  So to any riders of any brands I've offended by not waving, I apologize.  And for anyone who didn't wave back when I did, no problem.  Glad you are paying attention to more important things.

Tonight, I'm heading out to ride with my buddy Randy in Greenville - Randy has a beautiful Ultra Classic - and we'll have fun trading barbs about each other's bike.  I'll even pack an extra quart of oil for him, just in case. He'll sometimes bring me a bag of rice in case I run out of fuel. 

Don't worry so much about being offended by others that they control YOU. Snobs are everywhere and they are usually the person with the problem.  Be the bigger person and just enjoy the ride.     

[fudgie]

There a dicks on all biks, even Valks.  ???

All my friends are HD riders and they could care less. Its never bike vs bike, its all about ride vs trailer for us. Even at Sturgis, its never Jab crap, its whether you rode or not.

[MCRIDER]

The valk has a higher us content than HD does.  That is why HD got the law changed in 99, so Honda had to remove the "Made in USA" on the valks and goldwings.

Now, they both have us and foreign parts, just that Honda has more US parts.

I would guess the frame, motor, tranny, etc are us made.  All the little parts, and plastic parts, are made in Japan.  But the big parts add up faster to a larger % of the value of the bike.

MP

You would guess?  What is your source?  Guys from this board?  See if you can find any frame, motor part or transmission part at a dealership and look at the packaging.  It will say made in japan.  They bring the parts over here, assemble the engine/transmission assembly, and shipped it to the assembly line.  Almost everything is made in japan and assembled in the U.S.  Don't let that honda public relations department fool you anymore.  I was fooled in the beginning until I started investigating.

[hubcapsc]

All my friends are HD riders and they could care less. Its never bike vs bike, its all about ride vs trailer for us. Even at Sturgis, its never Jab crap, its whether you rode or not.

All of my rice-rocket vs harley rivalry is among friends, and that's usually the spirit I jump into these
on-line bash-fests with... it is also fun to razzle those people (no one specific in mind) who
take it seriously, though...



-Mike

[Michael K (Az.)]

I can't believe I'm posting on this subject but here goes!
I pretty much wave to everybody on 2. I always feel good that I have and enjoy putting my head in this space: Folks that do the snub after my wave get to go down the road with just a little, teeney weeney, mind you, stomach tightening bad vibe, you know the feeling, the "boy that guy on the Valk's a jerk yet I feel a little guilty what was he thinkin kind of deal. Hee Hee.

[SANDMAN5]

You would guess?  What is your source?  Guys from this board?  See if you can find any frame, motor part or transmission part at a dealership and look at the packaging.  It will say made in japan.  They bring the parts over here, assemble the engine/transmission assembly, and shipped it to the assembly line.  Almost everything is made in japan and assembled in the U.S.  Don't let that honda public relations department fool you anymore.  I was fooled in the beginning until I started investigating.

So, then, why doesn't harley put "Made in USA" on their bikes? Whether or not Valks were
made here or just assembled here, they're still more American than a harley......unless of
course harley is too ashamed to put USA on theirs. 80% (I believe) manufactured or assembled
in the USA to qualify for that "Made in USA". My Valk has it....does your harley?

[sugerbear]

i thought honda and harley had to stop putting "made in U.S.A." in 2k, am i wrong?

[SANDMAN5]

i thought honda and harley had to stop putting "made in U.S.A." in 2k, am i wrong?

1999 or 2000...I'm not sure. The % was raised that year to 85%. Best I can
remember, Valks are 82% USA....harleys are in the mid 70's.
Do 90's model harleys say "Made in USA"? I've not seen it!!

[sugerbear]

i know my 99 I/S said made in the U.S.A.
my 2k I/S doesn't

[Smokinjoe-VRCCDS#0005]

I was on Cherohala Skyline several years ago and was lettin' the fat girl eat I rounded a curve and a dude in a pirate suit was standing in the road with his bike off in the woods. He had some road rash and I stopped to help I ask are you alright ? He said " Do I f**king look like I'm alright " ....I just put the Valkyrie in gear and rode off leaving him standing there...What a d**khead ...I can't count the times this has crossed my mind over the years .

I should have added that the reason I wrote the above ....I always wonder if he would have said the same thing if I was on a Harley 

I did'nt brand " bash " I don't do that I have several close friends that ride Harley's...I'm a former owner myself .

[big turkey]

What I like is putting them to the test and wave at them and talk to them while riding a Kawasaki

or a Valkyrie.

It's kinda fun running on both sides of the street.

If they don't wave i don't care, if they detest me i don't care.

you have to happy in your own skin and keep it thick or you are like a fallen leaf and just

blow around on the ground with no direction.

Viva la Two Wheelers

No one bike is the best , that is for sure, but you can be the best by being a good person

no matter what you ride.

Big Al

[Jabba]

That's the secret right there.  Like who YOU are and who gives a rats arse what others think.

jabba

[Rocketman]

Can't speak for anyone else, but it's all good-natured ribbing from me.  If they can't take a joke, or they actually believe the crap they're spouting, then screw 'em.

[Chrisj CMA]

Can't speak for anyone else, but it's all good-natured ribbing from me.  If they can't take a joke, or they actually believe the crap they're spouting, then screw 'em.

I agree....most of my interactions (as I suspect the rest of us if we are honest) with HD riders is what I would describe as "unremarkable"  There is good natured ribbing sometimes, but I gotta tell anyone that doesnt get out much.........most of them HD boys know what a Valk is and our bikes get some respect that other metric bikes dont..............a Valkyrie is not a HD wanabe look-a-like and many HD riders like them more for that, plus they know they better have a few thousand dollars invested above and beyond stock or the Valk will kick their .....ok, ya they know.  I also know theres not many bikes that look better than a properly chromed out Herritage Softail, and I dont mind gawking at one that is derserving, it doenst mean I dont love my Valkyrie......she has no reason to get jealous!!!!! hehehe

Never the less it only takes one bucket head to ruin it and then we end up talking about threads like this.....BTW they talk about us when we are the "bucket head"  so dont be a bucket head!

[alph]

And... I'm sorry... sometimes I stop and take some photos of the landscape just so I can pass them all over again.

i would love to see those pictures.  and by the way, i can't understand wearing "beanie" helmets, unless the government is forcing them to do so.

[alph]

...... I've never been so blatantly snubbed as when we rode our metrics through Wisconsin on the way home from InZane.  I guess I should not have been surprised, but I had not thought about it beforehand and was not prepared.  It was really interesting two days later when we crossed the Red River into Texas and passed several groups of HDs and everyone waved.  That's not always the case, but was a nice "welcome home".

living here in wisconsin i deal with that all the time.

when i was in michigan, and ontario canada it seemed that everyone waved, exspecially in michigan!  but just as you said, here in wisconsin, the HD guys would only wave if they were confused.

you do realize, harleys are supose to be a "wisconsin" made motor cycle!!! 

[MNBill]

It is not just us. My friend said a Harley rider he knew went to the local DMV to take the permit test. The DMV found out she was a Harley rider and gave her a tablet and some crayons. They said this is what Harley riders need to take the test. We all have to have a sense of humor if we ride.

[fudgie]

And... I'm sorry... sometimes I stop and take some photos of the landscape just so I can pass them all over again.

i would love to see those pictures.  and by the way, i can't understand wearing "beanie" helmets, unless the government is forcing them to do so.

We got a pair of non DOT skid lid beanies. Makes it nice when we 'have' to hit helmet States such as MI or NE or riding in the rain.

[Rocketman]

We got a pair of non DOT skid lid beanies. Makes it nice when we 'have' to hit helmet States such as MI or NE or riding in the rain.

Curiosity:
If they're non-DOT, how do they do you any good?  Just going for the visual effect and hoping the officer doesn't look closer?  Is non-DOT cheaper, more comfortable?

[fudgie]

We got a pair of non DOT skid lid beanies. Makes it nice when we 'have' to hit helmet States such as MI or NE or riding in the rain.

Curiosity:
If they're non-DOT, how do they do you any good?  Just going for the visual effect and hoping the officer doesn't look closer?  Is non-DOT cheaper, more comfortable?

Well, not sure how they hold up in a crash as far as impact. We dont wear any, anyway, so crashing is not a issue. I'd explain it but its hard to understand unless you dont wear one either.  It does help you from getting pulled over tho, thats a plus.  $40 and ALOT more comfortable. Kit found it comfortable and she hates helmets but could find her wearing this if needed. I've never seen a cop check a helmet and I dont think they could, legally. Plus the shop we got them at gave us DOT stickers to put on them. 

[Jabba]

I see the allure of riding without helmets.  I really do... I just can't bring myself to do it.  I fee l bad wearing the DOT halfie I wear instead of a full face sometimes. 

But, I'll go to war to defend YOUR right not to wear one.  Seat belt laws are crap... I wear them.  Smoking bans are crap... and I have NEVER smoked.

More freedom, LESS government.

Libertarians...

Jabba

[fudgie]

Libertarians...

Jabba

You know, the more I read from you, meet you in person, the more I like you! I never really politically grouped myself with anyone, but I'm leaning to this group. Thx! 

[Bobbo]

More freedom, LESS government.

Libertarians...

Jabba