I do not generaly post political info..... BUT........

[Bobbo]

ITS JUST PLAIN COMMON SENSE TO NOT HAVE A VICTORY MOSQUE AT THE SITE OF THE RADICAL ISLAMS AMERICAN CONQUEST.

This sums it up pretty well:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_upshot/20100816/pl_yblog_upshot/news-outlets-split-in-describing-mosque

[kiwi#9582]

TO ME IT IS CLOSE ENOUGH.... THEY KNOW THEY COULD NEVER BUILD ON THE SITE.... THEY WOULD HAVE TO TAKE OVER THE WHOLE COUNTRY TO DO THAT......   

[Walküre]

(How silly?) Show me In the New Testament were Jesus supports violence? 

Give me a break!! No violence? Christians have been imposing violence on people for centuries! Right now, how about Uganda? Three evangelical Christians are fundamental in trying to get a law in Uganda that:

In Uganda, the Anti-Homosexuality Bill, if enacted, would broaden the criminalisation (sic) of homosexuality by introducing the death penalty for people who have previous convictions, are HIV-positive, or engage in same sex acts with people under 18 years of age. The bill also includes provisions for Ugandans who engage in same-sex sexual relations outside of Uganda, asserting that they may be extradited for punishment back to Uganda, and includes penalties for individuals, companies, media organisations (sic), or non-governmental organisations (sic) that support LGBT rights

And further history on Uganda:

Religiously, Uganda is a very Christian country. It has been described as an “island of Christendom in a sea of Islam.” According to statistics compiled by www.nationmaster.com, Ugandans are 84 percent Christian (42 percent Protestant and 41.9 percent Roman Catholic). Many Christian ministers preach against homosexuality.

So, talk to me about stupid violence "in the bible"...didn't stop the murder of Native Americans, or Hawaiians, or South Americans, etc, etc, etc.

The one thing I have noticed, at least among the vast majority of "christian" people that I have ever come in contact with, has been that they are very willing to tell me what OTHER people think - "atheist believe THIS"..."Libs believe THIS"..."gays believe THIS"..."muslims believe THIS"...,"THEY hate us BECAUSE..."....you don't HAVE the capability to know what I "believe", unless I tell you!

Criticizing ALL muslims, because of the ones that want to war with America, is like saying that YOU, as a christian, condone killing all gays, the 2nd time they are caught. Is that the case?

Case in point - the Tea Party is ALL about the constitution - their #1 agenda item is:

Identify constitutionality of every new law: Require each bill to identify the specific provision of the Constitution that gives Congress the power to do what the bill does. (82.03%)

Yet, they are up in arms over the constitutional rights of the Mosque being built.

Now, I will give you some insight, into what I DO believe - I don't believe a Mosque should be built, ANYWHERE!. Nor a church. Or temple. Period. But, if you DO allow any of them, you have to allow all of them, per our constitution. And the constitution doesn't specify WHERE or WHICH can be built.

I am aghast at what I have read here -

IF they some how are allowed to build this insult to the victims of 9/11 the building code should require a nuclear device be incorporated in the foundation to be detonated at the opening ceremony once they have packed all available space in the building with Muslims.  I'd even volunteer to throw the switch.  Maybe we should invite a few of our current administration to attend as special guests.

and:

I'm getting to the point, NUKE the whole god blessed country, asphalt it, and build a McDonald's and a Wal-Mart in the center of that huge parking lot, then we walk........

and other assorted threats and hopes for violence. Against the innocents amongst the guilty.

Where have I heard this before? Oh yeah, replace the word Muslims with Christians, and it's right out of the Al Queda playbook. As the saying goes, "you can't tell the players without a scorecard!".

[3fan4life]

God hates violence...  ...and also fags, soldiers, McCain, Obama, and America!

You want us to believe that Radical Muslims don't represent the mainstream beliefs of that religion. But, you want us to believe that the rants of a few radical Christians does represent the mainstream beliefs of Christianity.

Could it not be more obvious that your oppinion is prejudiced?

You can HATE Christians all that you want, that does not change the reality that Muslims seek the destruction of all, "INFIDELS" and unless you are one of them,

THAT INCLUDES YOU!

 

   

[3fan4life]

So Chris, there are 1.6 BILLION Muslims in the world.  19 of them were from "one twisted church (Al Queda) that's pretty much run by one screwed up family (Laden)" and attacked us.

Now, I'm not an Islamic scholar as you appear to be, but tell me the difference between the two sets of nutcases please?  You put the sins of the few on the many.  Doesn't take a whole lot of reasoning....just go Rambo on em all seems to be the easiest way, eh?

A FEW QUOTES FROM THE KORAN CONCERNING NON BELIEVERS (INFIDELS):

Allah is an enemy to unbelievers. - Sura 2:98
On unbelievers is the curse of Allah. - Sura 2:161
Slay them wherever ye find them and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution is worse than slaughter. - 2:191
Fight against them until idolatry is no more and Allah's religion reigns supreme. Fight them until there is no persecution and the religion is God's entirely. - Sura 2:193 and 8:39
Fighting is obligatory for you, much as you dislike it. - 2:216

Their words not mine.

Doesn't sound like a friendly bunch of folks to me.

[Robert]

The news media has attributed it to 3 Christians but the real person that introduced the bill and the rest of the story is there for the learning. Uganda has not been a beacon of liberty nor human rights nor really has a government so its really a poor example to use against  Christians. If you want to put Christians on trial find a better example


Homosexuality is currently illegal in Uganda—as it is in many sub-Saharan African countries—punishable by incarceration in prison for up to 14 years.

The proposals included plans to introduce the death penalty for homosexuals who practiced gay sex with people under 18, with disabled people, when the accused party is HIV-positive,[4] or for those previously convicted of homosexuality-related offences.
 [/font][/color]
The bill was introduced by

David Bahati (born 6 August 1973) is a Ugandan politician and MP in the Ugandan parliament. He is the MP for the constituency of Ndorwa West and is a member of the National Resistance Movement, the ruling party of Uganda. He is Chief of the Scout Board of Uganda [1]

The National Resistance Movement (NRM), commonly referred to as the Movement, is a political organization in Uganda.

Until a referendum in 2005, Uganda held elections on a non-party basis. The relative strengths of the parties is difficult to gauge as no elections have been held since the party-politics was reinstated. The NRM dominates parliament, however, and is expected to continue to do so. The presidential elections of 12 March 2001 were won by Yoweri Museveni of the NRM with 69.3% of the popular vote. It began as the political body associated with the rebel National Resistance Army before Museveni came to power in 1986.

[Walküre]

Twist it to your beliefs, Robert, any way you desire...

The truth is, the law says that any gay activity, period, from someone previously convicted, is punishable by hanging. PERIOD!! THAT is the main emphasis of the law. PERIOD! That is the first part of the law. Also included is the part of underage, disabled, etc. But, the key info is that any homosexual activity, between consenting adults, can be punishable by death.

And you can blame the media all you want, but evangelicals WERE primary in presenting the law.

I can't believe your rationalizations...

The news media has attributed it to 3 Christians but the real person that introduced the bill and the rest of the story is there for the learning. Uganda has not been a beacon of liberty nor human rights nor really has a government so its really a poor example to use against  Christians. If you want to put Christians on trial find a better example


Homosexuality is currently illegal in Uganda—as it is in many sub-Saharan African countries—punishable by incarceration in prison for up to 14 years.

The proposals included plans to introduce the death penalty for homosexuals who practiced gay sex with people under 18, with disabled people, when the accused party is HIV-positive,[4] or for those previously convicted of homosexuality-related offences.
 [/font][/color]
The bill was introduced by

David Bahati (born 6 August 1973) is a Ugandan politician and MP in the Ugandan parliament. He is the MP for the constituency of Ndorwa West and is a member of the National Resistance Movement, the ruling party of Uganda. He is Chief of the Scout Board of Uganda [1]

The National Resistance Movement (NRM), commonly referred to as the Movement, is a political organization in Uganda.

Until a referendum in 2005, Uganda held elections on a non-party basis. The relative strengths of the parties is difficult to gauge as no elections have been held since the party-politics was reinstated. The NRM dominates parliament, however, and is expected to continue to do so. The presidential elections of 12 March 2001 were won by Yoweri Museveni of the NRM with 69.3% of the popular vote. It began as the political body associated with the rebel National Resistance Army before Museveni came to power in 1986.

[Walküre]

So Chris, there are 1.6 BILLION Muslims in the world.  19 of them were from "one twisted church (Al Queda) that's pretty much run by one screwed up family (Laden)" and attacked us.

Now, I'm not an Islamic scholar as you appear to be, but tell me the difference between the two sets of nutcases please?  You put the sins of the few on the many.  Doesn't take a whole lot of reasoning....just go Rambo on em all seems to be the easiest way, eh?

A FEW QUOTES FROM THE KORAN CONCERNING NON BELIEVERS (INFIDELS):

Allah is an enemy to unbelievers. - Sura 2:98
On unbelievers is the curse of Allah. - Sura 2:161
Slay them wherever ye find them and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution is worse than slaughter. - 2:191
Fight against them until idolatry is no more and Allah's religion reigns supreme. Fight them until there is no persecution and the religion is God's entirely. - Sura 2:193 and 8:39
Fighting is obligatory for you, much as you dislike it. - 2:216

Their words not mine.

Doesn't sound like a friendly bunch of folks to me.

yeah, it's YOUR words...not theirs. Taken out of context, and picked through, to support a hate for muslims. Here's the REST of the story, from the Koran...

"Fight in the cause of God those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for God loves not transgressors. And slay them wherever you catch them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out; for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter... But if they cease, God is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful... If they cease, let there be no hostility except to those who practice oppression" (2:190-193).

The Koran preaches DEFENSIVE aggression. Those radicals that take it wrong, and pick out parts to support their terrorism, are NO BETTER than the christians, that pick and choose the bible, to support THEIR hates and terrorisms...

It also teaches love towards others:

"It may be that God will grant love (and friendship) between you and those whom ye (now) hold as enemies. For God has power (over all things), and God is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.

God does not forbid you, with regard to those who fight you not for (your) faith nor drive you out of your homes, from dealing kindly and justly with them: for God loves those who are just."

Because some people take things out of contexts, doesn't make it so...

[Bobbo]

God hates violence...  ...and also fags, soldiers, McCain, Obama, and America!

You want us to believe that Radical Muslims don't represent the mainstream beliefs of that religion. But, you want us to believe that the rants of a few radical Christians does represent the mainstream beliefs of Christianity.

Could it not be more obvious that your oppinion is prejudiced?

You can HATE Christians all that you want, that does not change the reality that Muslims seek the destruction of all, "INFIDELS" and unless you are one of them,
   

You missed my follow-up post:

My point was simply that you could use youtube videos to show that there are radical thoughts in any group, be it religious, political, or otherwise.  That doesn’t prove anything.  My example video doesn’t show that all people who consider themselves Christian are anti-everything, only a select few.  The same goes for the people in the other video who consider themselves Muslims, just a select few.

Whenever I’m presented with information, I want to look at it critically from several viewpoints.  To do otherwise only serves to condition yourself to a myopic view of the world.

[Walküre]

The news media has attributed it to 3 Christians but the real person that introduced the bill and the rest of the story is there for the learning. Uganda has not been a beacon of liberty nor human rights nor really has a government so its really a poor example to use against  Christians. If you want to put Christians on trial find a better example

    David Bahati, is a member of The Family. He appears to be a core member of The Family. He works, he organizes their Uganda National Prayer Breakfast and oversees a African sort of student leadership program designed to create future leaders for Africa, into which The Family has poured millions of dollars working through a very convoluted chain of linkages passing the money over to Uganda… Working with some research colleagues we discovered that David Bahati, the man behind this legislation, is really deeply, deeply involved in The Family’s work in Uganda, that the ethics minister of Uganda, Museveni’s kind of right hand man, a guy named Nsaba Buturo, is also helping to organize The Family’s National Prayer Breakfast. And here’s a guy who has been the main force for this Anti-Homosexuality Act in Uganda’s executive office and has been very vocal about what he’s doing, and in a rather extreme and hateful way. But these guys are not so much under the influence of The Family. They are, in Uganda, The Family.

    …Looking at the, The Family’s 990s, where they’re moving their money to – into this African leadership academy called Cornerstone, which runs two programs: Youth Corps, which has described its in the past as an international quote, “invisible family binding together world leaders,” and also, an alumni organization designed to place Cornerstone grads – graduates of this sort of very elite educational program and politics and NGO’s through something called the African Youth Leadership Forum, which is run by -according to Ugandan media – which is run by David Bahati, this same legislator who introduced the Anti-Homosexuality Act.

Nope, this sample is sufficient...

[kiwi#9582]

OK, guys.....         Time to change the subject...  Sorry I started this thread...   

Lets concentrate on my new post....  Tuesday Teasers....   

[Robert]

According to human rights organisations, about 500,000 homosexuals live in Uganda out of a total population of 31 million.[3] Existing laws criminalise homosexual behavior with prison sentences lasting up to 14 years. These laws are remnants of British colonialism designed to punish what colonial authorities deemed "unnatural sex" among local Ugandan people.[4][5]  Although many societies in Africa and elsewhere view homosexuality as a decadent practice imported by outsiders, it existed before European colonisation, often varying in practice depending on individual cultures. In some, male homosexuality was age-stratified, similar to ancient Sparta and Athens  where warriors purchased boys as brides, common when women were not available, or manifested as fleeting encounters as in prostitution.[6]

Despite this past, colonial influence has been pervasive; according to a reporter in Africa, "Africans see homosexuality as being both un-African and un-Christian".[7] Thirty-eight of fifty-three African nations criminalise homosexuality in some way.[5] In sub-Saharan Africa, the government of South Africa is the only official entity to acknowledge gay rights, but even there curative rape is often used against men and women (such as in the murder of Eudy Simelane), and sometimes met with police inaction and apathy. Like the conditions in many other African nations, gays in Uganda currently face an atmosphere of physical abuse, vandalism to their property, blackmail, death threats, and "correctional rape".[8][9]

You are so far off base about Christians or Muslims and not even willing to learn no way is there going to be meaningful discussion. The sad example you picked of a country that mass genocide happened that has no government that is still in revolution and you used it as a example of how Christians are and what happens. As if Christians made this law in Uganda which is a total load of bs.  Not to mention that most African countries already have laws against homosexuality seems to skip your gaze.  I just cant take it when someone who doesn't know what they are talking about posts views and ideas of Christians the very subject that they detest posing it as fact that I just couldn't stand it any longer. If you want to post on how Christians are then learn to be one otherwise stick to what you know. You would be surprised how learning about religion and the differences instead of guessing about them will give you a real understanding and ability to talk from knowledge and fact rather than vague innuendos. (An innuendo is a baseless invention of thoughts or ideas).There is a reverse prejudice that you  are exhibiting. This leads the way to the supposed persecuted becomes the persecutor.  You hate religion why do you even think about posting on any religion.

[3fan4life]

yeah, it's YOUR words...not theirs. Taken out of context, and picked through, to support a hate for muslims. Here's the REST of the story, from the Koran...

"Fight in the cause of God those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for God loves not transgressors. And slay them wherever you catch them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out; for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter... But if they cease, God is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful... If they cease, let there be no hostility except to those who practice oppression" (2:190-193).

Frankly I don't see where even the full text changes the meaning, it still says to "fight and slay".

And as far as the love thing,

It doesn't apply to non muslims that refuse to convert to Islam.

I'm also surprised to see that you feel a need to defend Islam, since you profess to despise all religions.

If you feel that all religion is wrong, well you have that right.

But if you profess that and then defend a particular religion, that's hypocritical.

[Robert]

I have defended Christians all Christians but I must also tell the whole truth. There are men that when they read the Bible have used it as a tool to wip everyone that opposed their position. The Bible was the excuse for doing their own demonic will. No where in the New Testament does it talk about performing murder or cutting down anyone who opposes. The Bible has been the greatest excuse to perform the bad desires in mens hearts. Many who purport to be Christians are nothing more than talkers and posers.  Christ when He came didn't come to destroy the rulers of the day. That was their fear they also had their own agenda and they had Him crucified, Jews by the way. He came with a message of love, caring ,hope and power over the powers of darkness. He had all power and with one command could have changed the course of history and the Bible. He did not have to subject Himself to the tortures that He did. But He did for love for the good of humanity of you and me and that hopefully some who came after would understand that He gave us the very power that He has.That by the spilling of His blood and the giving of His life that he paid the price for us. That if we come closer to Him that he will bestow on us good gifts, most that we could not comprehend without divine intervention. We are not supposed to subject to some of the things we go through, He has given us the power to overcome these things. He even said that it is good I go so the Father will send the comforter. Who could this be? Its the very same person who is with us today. He didn't leave us as orphans nor without power or without guidance. I do have to apologize for things done in the name of Christians that had nothing to do with how Christ told us to do things. I dont really come to the aid of Christians but to the defense of Jesus and the Bible. Jesus said there is no one good except for the Father. The more I look into mens hearts I see what Jesus was talking about. This is why I say that anyone who is against religion cannot possibly understand the true meaning. Understand that it is a relationship not a religion. That Christ gave himself so we could be free. Unfortunately if most had to learn Christianity from supposed Christians they including myself would say no way. But find out  who this Jesus is talk to Him ask Him to show you who He is. You will fall in Love with Him all the things that as a kid you thought love life people should be are in Him. These are in people too believe it or not most just need a touch a healing a look to bring out the good that is inside them. But there is no one else that can do that except Jesus. If you have ever wanted something better then ask and see what happens, you can always decide you dont like it, but I dont think you ever will. This is what I defend not for the sake of the Bible but for your sake the unsaved and unbelieving. The Christians already know how good God is. The Bible doesn't need protecting nor does God but to all that are unsaved they need to know that there is a God that He does love them and that there is hope peace patience kindness goodness and so much more available to them. The enemy has so blinded them, they are the ones worth defending Christ over. I know where I am going and to who I serve so say what you want about me. But those that are lost they are the important ones. 

[kiwi#9582]

OK, guys... I am opting out of this discussion... not what I intended it for.... was just an FYI about the Mosque so close to the towers.  End of discussion.  Lets move on to something else.  See you on the NEXT topic.   

[Bobbo]

OK, guys... I am opting out of this discussion... not what I intended it for.... was just an FYI about the Mosque so close to the towers.  End of discussion.  Lets move on to something else.  See you on the NEXT topic.   

You are trying to put the genie back into the bottle!    

[Sludge]

LOL good one Bobbo 

[fstsix]

(How silly?) Show me In the New Testament were Jesus supports violence?  

Give me a break!! No violence? Christians have been imposing violence on people for centuries! Right now, how about Uganda? Three evangelical Christians are fundamental in trying to get a law in Uganda that:

In Uganda, the Anti-Homosexuality Bill, if enacted, would broaden the criminalisation (sic) of homosexuality by introducing the death penalty for people who have previous convictions, are HIV-positive, or engage in same sex acts with people under 18 years of age. The bill also includes provisions for Ugandans who engage in same-sex sexual relations outside of Uganda, asserting that they may be extradited for punishment back to Uganda, and includes penalties for individuals, companies, media organisations (sic), or non-governmental organisations (sic) that support LGBT rights

And further history on Uganda:

Religiously, Uganda is a very Christian country. It has been described as an “island of Christendom in a sea of Islam.” According to statistics compiled by www.nationmaster.com, Ugandans are 84 percent Christian (42 percent Protestant and 41.9 percent Roman Catholic). Many Christian ministers preach against homosexuality.

So, talk to me about stupid violence "in the bible"...didn't stop the murder of Native Americans, or Hawaiians, or South Americans, etc, etc, etc.

The one thing I have noticed, at least among the vast majority of "christian" people that I have ever come in contact with, has been that they are very willing to tell me what OTHER people think - "atheist believe THIS"..."Libs believe THIS"..."gays believe THIS"..."muslims believe THIS"...,"THEY hate us BECAUSE..."....you don't HAVE the capability to know what I "believe", unless I tell you!

Criticizing ALL muslims, because of the ones that want to war with America, is like saying that YOU, as a christian, condone killing all gays, the 2nd time they are caught. Is that the case?

Case in point - the Tea Party is ALL about the constitution - their #1 agenda item is:

Identify constitutionality of every new law: Require each bill to identify the specific provision of the Constitution that gives Congress the power to do what the bill does. (82.03%)

Yet, they are up in arms over the constitutional rights of the Mosque being built.

Now, I will give you some insight, into what I DO believe - I don't believe a Mosque should be built, ANYWHERE!. Nor a church. Or temple. Period. But, if you DO allow any of them, you have to allow all of them, per our constitution. And the constitution doesn't specify WHERE or WHICH can be built.

I am aghast at what I have read here -

IF they some how are allowed to build this insult to the victims of 9/11 the building code should require a nuclear device be incorporated in the foundation to be detonated at the opening ceremony once they have packed all available space in the building with Muslims.  I'd even volunteer to throw the switch.  Maybe we should invite a few of our current administration to attend as special guests.

and:

I'm getting to the point, NUKE the whole god blessed country, asphalt it, and build a McDonald's and a Wal-Mart in the center of that huge parking lot, then we walk........

and other assorted threats and hopes for violence. Against the innocents amongst the guilty.

Where have I heard this before? Oh yeah, replace the word Muslims with Christians, and it's right out of the Al Queda playbook. As the saying goes, "you can't tell the players without a scorecard!".

Still waiting for a answer on where in the New Testament Jesus invokes any kind of Violence...you are long winded? Give me a break!! No violence? Christians have been imposing violence on people for centuries! Right now, how about Uganda? Three evangelical Christians are fundamental in trying to get a law in Uganda that:

[alph]

SO,

this horse walks into a bar, the bar tender looks at him and says; "hey buddy, why such a long face?"

[Robert]

Who's on first?	powered by Aeva

[Sludge]

LOL Classic!   

[3fan4life]

I have defended Christians all Christians but I must also tell the whole truth. There are men that when they read the Bible have used it as a tool to whip everyone that opposed their position. The Bible was the excuse for doing their own demonic will............. The Bible has been the greatest excuse to perform the bad desires in men’s hearts. Many who purport to be Christians are nothing more than talkers and posers....... He(Jesus) came with a message of love, caring ,hope and power over the powers of darkness. He had all power and with one command could have changed the course of history and the Bible..........   He did not have to subject Himself to the tortures that He did..............by the spilling of His blood and the giving of His life that he paid the price for us........... I don’t really come to the aid of Christians but to the defense of Jesus and the Bible. Jesus said there is no one good except for the Father............

 
You are absolutely dead on the mark here.


The only part that I would take exception to is:

This is why I say that anyone who is against religion cannot possibly understand the true meaning.

I say this because Jesus was also "Anti-religion".

In fact it was the "Religious" Leaders of the time that insisted on his crucifixcion.

Many misguided and or evil souls have used religion (all religions) to obtain their own despicable agenda.

Few if "any" of them were actually following the true teachings of their professed faith.

This is not however, a confirmation of the evil of religion, rather it is a confirmation of the inherent evil of man.