Hats off to the Volunteer State..!!

[Bigdog]

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/08/29/proposed-mosque-site-tennessee-probed

[Willow]

"told us they will be investigating this as a hate crime."

Does the identification of a subset as "hate crimes" imply that some crimes of destruction, assault, and murder do not involve ill will? 

It's always seemed a rather inane concept to me.   ???

[Jess from VA]

"Hate crime" as a concept is simply a politically correct multiplier of other existing crime. 

[JimL]

"told us they will be investigating this as a hate crime."

Does the identification of a subset as "hate crimes" imply that some crimes of destruction, assault, and murder do not involve ill will?  

It's always seemed a rather inane concept to me.   ???

I remember this very point being debated during the 2000 Presidential debate (Gore/Bush).  Gore was trying to score points on the fact that a murder committed in Texas against a minority during George Bush's term as governor was tried under normal murder laws and the murderer subsequently sentenced to death....instead of being tried under a hate crimes law and being sentenced to death.

Following is the debate transcript for those who would like to re-live this ridiculous exchange.

http://www.debates.org/index.php?page=october-11-2000-debate-transcript

[R J]

How do they know the Muslim's didn't do it themselves attempting to pressure the local people to go along with the project?

Seen it happen in San Francisco many moons ago.........

[Skinhead]

I wonder after the ATF and FBI finish investigating, and capture the perp, if they will fail to prosecute as they did in the voter intimidation case?  No matter what you can be sure Barry will get to the bottom of it.

[FLAVALK]

I have a serious problem with the entire "Hate Crime" concept......what a load of crap  

[Bobbo]

While I think the idea of committing a crime against someone or a group on the basis of religion, race, or culture is absurd, the “Hate Crime” laws are even more ridiculous.  To add an additional crime based on what someone was thinking while committing a crime is problematic.  Has someone researched the origin of these laws?  I’m curious if these laws were some sort of appeasement for other laws they wanted to pass.

Bigdog:  Does your “Hats off” title refer to the people who torched the equipment, or to law enforcement investigating this crime?

[Bigdog]

to the people who torched the equipment......I know, I know,...... not politically correct but.......thats how I'm feeling right now.
RJ brought up something interesting though........who knows...??

[Bobbo]

to the people who torched the equipment......I know, I know,...... not politically correct but.......thats how I'm feeling right now.
RJ brought up something interesting though........who knows...??

Not politically correct?  It’s a crime.  Politically correct is using the term “German American” instead of “Kraut”.  Destroying someone else’s property with fire is arson.  I believe RJ’s speculation about self-inflicted damage is far fetched at best.  This ranks right up there with 9/11 being a Jewish plot to force the US to attack the Arab states.

[Bigdog]

Yep it's a crime......I didn't do it, but applaud whoever did..!!!

[Bobbo]

Yep it's a crime......I didn't do it, but applaud whoever did..!!!

I’m disappointed that you so easily disregard the laws of the US to serve your shortsighted political goals.  When this type is behavior is condoned, you are simply saying that the concept of rule by law is a failure.  Since you disagree with the founding principals of our Nation, what form of government do you suggest?

[Skinhead]

Yep it's a crime......I didn't do it, but applaud whoever did..!!!

I’m disappointed that you so easily disregard the laws of the US to serve your shortsighted political goals.  When this type is behavior is condoned, you are simply saying that the concept of rule by law is a failure.  Since you disagree with the founding principals of our Nation, what form of government do you suggest?

The rule by law became a failure when our current administration began selectively prosecuting based on race or religion.  I refer to the new black panther party voter intimidation case, all the ACORN crap, and the attempts to try war criminals in civil courts. 

The fact that our government officials scoff at the law and think it doesn't apply to them, it sets a bad example for folks.  Tax Cheats are a prime example. 

I see the Tennessee incident as someone who became tired of unfair, unequal treatment based on cultural and religious status, and taking action,  While I agree it was illegal, I can understand their motivation.  If the future mosque builders in NY continue to push their unwanted and wrong agenda, I'm afraid you will see more of the same.

[Bobbo]

The rule by law became a failure when our current administration began selectively prosecuting based on race or religion.  I refer to the new black panther party voter intimidation case, all the ACORN crap, and the attempts to try war criminals in civil courts. 

The fact that our government officials scoff at the law and think it doesn't apply to them, it sets a bad example for folks.  Tax Cheats are a prime example. 

I see the Tennessee incident as someone who became tired of unfair, unequal treatment based on cultural and religious status, and taking action,  While I agree it was illegal, I can understand their motivation.  If the future mosque builders in NY continue to push their unwanted and wrong agenda, I'm afraid you will see more of the same.

It’s unrealistic to believe that unfairness and crime suddenly appeared on January 20th, 2009. 

What is the unfairness in this arson example?

[MP]

The rule by law became a failure when our current administration began selectively prosecuting based on race or religion.  I refer to the new black panther party voter intimidation case, all the ACORN crap, and the attempts to try war criminals in civil courts. 

The fact that our government officials scoff at the law and think it doesn't apply to them, it sets a bad example for folks.  Tax Cheats are a prime example. 

I see the Tennessee incident as someone who became tired of unfair, unequal treatment based on cultural and religious status, and taking action,  While I agree it was illegal, I can understand their motivation.  If the future mosque builders in NY continue to push their unwanted and wrong agenda, I'm afraid you will see more of the same.

Tell me bobbo, what is right about dropping the case on the Black Panter voter intimidation?  Standing outside a voting place, club in hand going after voters?  You say that is all right?  Dropped because of "lack of evidence"?  tape showing the club etc. "lack of evidence"?  Then, insiders in DOJ saying they were told NO cases like this involving blacks were to be proscuted, only if whites did it?

Can you say "Fairness'?

Can you say "Bigotry"?

or "PC?"

MP

It’s unrealistic to believe that unfairness and crime suddenly appeared on January 20th, 2009. 

What is the unfairness in this arson example?

[fuzzy2bucks]

The building of  Mosques in North or Southl America is the final Crusade for the Muslims to defeat Christianity for the final and last timre.

[Skinhead]

It’s unrealistic to believe that unfairness and crime suddenly appeared on January 20th, 2009.  

Didn't mean to suggest it was a new issue, only that it had been building, and I think the frequency of occurances may have increased in the recent past.

What is the unfairness in this arson example?

Not sure what you're getting at here, are you asking about specific unfairness in the Murfresboro Islamic center?  If so don't know that there is one, I meant that it may have been a cumulative effect from all the government special treatment of muslim and racial issues coming to a head.  IMHO

[Bobbo]

Tell me bobbo, what is right about dropping the case on the Black Panter voter intimidation?  Standing outside a voting place, club in hand going after voters?  You say that is all right?  Dropped because of "lack of evidence"?  tape showing the club etc. "lack of evidence"?  Then, insiders in DOJ saying they were told NO cases like this involving blacks were to be proscuted, only if whites did it?

Can you say "Fairness'?

Can you say "Bigotry"?

or "PC?"

MP

I would denounce the actions of anyone attempting to intimidate voters.  I have no idea why many cases like this are dismissed, but to use that as an excuse to commit more crimes is irresponsible.

[fstsix]

Tell me bobbo, what is right about dropping the case on the Black Panter voter intimidation?  Standing outside a voting place, club in hand going after voters?  You say that is all right?  Dropped because of "lack of evidence"?  tape showing the club etc. "lack of evidence"?  Then, insiders in DOJ saying they were told NO cases like this involving blacks were to be proscuted, only if whites did it?

Can you say "Fairness'?

Can you say "Bigotry"?

or "PC?"

MP

I would denounce the actions of anyone attempting to intimidate voters.  I have no idea why many cases like this are dismissed, but to use that as an excuse to commit more crimes is irresponsible.

But.....but.....but....you know everything?......I got more crayons for ya, are you running low? what a cop out to Cover for the DOJ!!! tell me is your Income federal local or State?

[MP]

Tell me bobbo, what is right about dropping the case on the Black Panter voter intimidation?  Standing outside a voting place, club in hand going after voters?  You say that is all right?  Dropped because of "lack of evidence"?  tape showing the club etc. "lack of evidence"?  Then, insiders in DOJ saying they were told NO cases like this involving blacks were to be proscuted, only if whites did it?

Can you say "Fairness'?

Can you say "Bigotry"?

or "PC?"

MP

I would denounce the actions of anyone attempting to intimidate voters.  I have no idea why many cases like this are dismissed, but to use that as an excuse to commit more crimes is irresponsible.

I cannot find where I said it justified committing more crimes. The problem is, when the DOJ does something so stupid, some people take matters into their own hands, because this gov't will not do its job, even when it is obvious to all.

MP

[Bobbo]

I cannot find where I said it justified committing more crimes. The problem is, when the DOJ does something so stupid, some people take matters into their own hands, because this gov't will not do its job, even when it is obvious to all.

MP

You replied to a post of mine and appeared to reinforce Skinhead’s claim where he agreed that it is acceptable to commit arson since the government wasn’t doing its job to his satisfaction.

What is “obvious to all” is often not acceptable in a court of law.  Courts have defined procedures, precedence, and a multitude of laws that have to be properly navigated for a successful prosecution.

And everyone, please don’t bring up the “Liberal Activist Judge” excuse.  This has been going on for quite a while.

[MP]

I cannot find where I said it justified committing more crimes. The problem is, when the DOJ does something so stupid, some people take matters into their own hands, because this gov't will not do its job, even when it is obvious to all.

MP

You replied to a post of mine and appeared to reinforce Skinhead’s claim where he agreed that it is acceptable to commit arson since the government wasn’t doing its job to his satisfaction.

What is “obvious to all” is often not acceptable in a court of law.  Courts have defined procedures, precedence, and a multitude of laws that have to be properly navigated for a successful prosecution.

And everyone, please don’t bring up the “Liberal Activist Judge” excuse.  This has been going on for quite a while.

Well, I would wager that if I went out with a couple of my "white" buddies, and paraded around in front of a voting place brandishing a nightstick or baseball bat, wearing combat fatigues, my arse would be in jail very fast, and I have no doubt that the DOJ would prosecute.

Or maybe, since you do not think so, YOU would do that, and let the rest of us know how it turns out?   

And, for the record, YOU brought up the "Activist Judge", not me!  This case never even made it to a judge, the DOJ dropped the case.

[Skinhead]

I cannot find where I said it justified committing more crimes. The problem is, when the DOJ does something so stupid, some people take matters into their own hands, because this gov't will not do its job, even when it is obvious to all.

MP

You replied to a post of mine and appeared to reinforce Skinhead’s claim where he agreed that it is acceptable to commit arson since the government wasn’t doing its job to his satisfaction.

What is “obvious to all” is often not acceptable in a court of law.  Courts have defined procedures, precedence, and a multitude of laws that have to be properly navigated for a successful prosecution.

And everyone, please don’t bring up the “Liberal Activist Judge” excuse.  This has been going on for quite a while.

Please show me where I agreed it was acceptable to commit arson.  I was merely offering an explaination of why someone might take matters into their own hands due to frustration brought about by a feeling of being sold out by their elected officials.  Wether actual or perceived. 

It's the same sort of thing that leads a state like AZ to pass another law, even though there is one already on the books, that the feds are not enforcing, and then when a citizen or even civil official tries to enforce the law, the government steps in and obstructs their efforts.  Sooner or later, people will take matters into their own hands.

I do take exception to you twisting my words around, so I really would appreciate you showing me where I agreed that it is accpetable to commit arson, In any situation.

[Bigdog]

If this doesn't piss you off then I feel sorry for you....
I'm sure not all Muslims  feel about our country the way these do, but....

Muslims in America	powered by Aeva

[Skinhead]

It does...

[Oldswimr]

Shameful, even more so that we think it's a good thing. GTFU.

[Charlie]

The building of  Mosques in North or Southl America is the final Crusade for the Muslims to defeat Christianity for the final and last timre.

I wonder if the Indians said that to each other when the Christian Pilgrims built their churchs in North America??  How about the Aztecs and Incas in Central and South America when the Catholic church built theirs???

Just curious.......

[Bobbo]

Bigdog:  Am I going to have to post the Westboro Baptist videos again to prove there are extreme nut cases in every group?

[Hoser]

Did anyone happen to realize it may have been a labor dispute that was the reason for the burning of the construction equipment, and totally had nothing to do with the project it self?  I have seen and heard of this before, sometimes by the union and sometimes by non union folks.   I've seen a lot during 35 years as a firefighter and arson investigator in my career, and this is one of them. Let's not jump to conclusions, let the investgator do his job, could have been simple vandalism, also.  Hoser 

[czuch]

There are alot of other ways to ruin equipment and send a message.
Thank GOD that no one got hurt.
These folks are tenacious. The more we dont want em, the more they want in.
 IT IS THE FINAL CRUSADE

[MP]

Did anyone happen to realize it may have been a labor dispute that was the reason for the burning of the construction equipment, and totally had nothing to do with the project it self?  I have seen and heard of this before, sometimes by the union and sometimes by non union folks.   I've seen a lot during 35 years as a firefighter and arson investigator in my career, and this is one of them. Let's not jump to conclusions, let the investgator do his job, could have been simple vandalism, also.  Hoser 

That was my first thought.  Thanks for bringing it up, hoser.

I see where once skinhead and I called Bobbo on his total twisting of our words, he went on without mentioning it.  A troll.

MP

[Bobbo]

Did anyone happen to realize it may have been a labor dispute that was the reason for the burning of the construction equipment, and totally had nothing to do with the project it self?  I have seen and heard of this before, sometimes by the union and sometimes by non union folks.   I've seen a lot during 35 years as a firefighter and arson investigator in my career, and this is one of them. Let's not jump to conclusions, let the investgator do his job, could have been simple vandalism, also.  Hoser 

That was my first thought.  Thanks for bringing it up, hoser.

I see where once skinhead and I called Bobbo on his total twisting of our words, he went on without mentioning it.  A troll.

MP

Hoser:  Your explanation of labor disputes is unlikely since this site was attacked before in a different way.  (See photo)

MP:  I explained my response the first time you asked.

[Bobbo]

Please show me where I agreed it was acceptable to commit arson.  I was merely offering an explaination of why someone might take matters into their own hands due to frustration brought about by a feeling of being sold out by their elected officials.  Wether actual or perceived. 

It's the same sort of thing that leads a state like AZ to pass another law, even though there is one already on the books, that the feds are not enforcing, and then when a citizen or even civil official tries to enforce the law, the government steps in and obstructs their efforts.  Sooner or later, people will take matters into their own hands.

I do take exception to you twisting my words around, so I really would appreciate you showing me where I agreed that it is accpetable to commit arson, In any situation.

When you made this statement “While I agree it was illegal, I can understand their motivation” it sounded like you condoned the illegal action.  If that wasn’t the case, I’ll offer an apology, but it would help if you were a little more clear.

[MP]

Please show me where I agreed it was acceptable to commit arson.  I was merely offering an explaination of why someone might take matters into their own hands due to frustration brought about by a feeling of being sold out by their elected officials.  Wether actual or perceived. 

It's the same sort of thing that leads a state like AZ to pass another law, even though there is one already on the books, that the feds are not enforcing, and then when a citizen or even civil official tries to enforce the law, the government steps in and obstructs their efforts.  Sooner or later, people will take matters into their own hands.

I do take exception to you twisting my words around, so I really would appreciate you showing me where I agreed that it is accpetable to commit arson, In any situation.

When you made this statement “While I agree it was illegal, I can understand their motivation” it sounded like you condoned the illegal action.  If that wasn’t the case, I’ll offer an apology, but it would help if you were a little more clear.

Just because you understand why someone would do something, does not mean you condone it.

ie, I understand "why" people rob banks, they want money.  That does not mean I condone it.

I believe you go out there looking for ways to twist peoples words to provoke them.

You sure did with mine.

MP

[Hoser]

Did anyone happen to realize it may have been a labor dispute that was the reason for the burning of the construction equipment, and totally had nothing to do with the project it self?  I have seen and heard of this before, sometimes by the union and sometimes by non union folks.   I've seen a lot during 35 years as a firefighter and arson investigator in my career, and this is one of them. Let's not jump to conclusions, let the investgator do his job, could have been simple vandalism, also.  Hoser 

That was my first thought.  Thanks for bringing it up, hoser.

I see where once skinhead and I called Bobbo on his total twisting of our words, he went on without mentioning it.  A troll.

MP

Hoser:  Your explanation of labor disputes is unlikely since this site was attacked before in a different way.  (See photo)

MP:  I explained my response the first time you asked.

Any investigator worth his or her salt would include all evidence in the investigation, all aspects should be included.  Hoser

[fstsix]

Please show me where I agreed it was acceptable to commit arson.  I was merely offering an explaination of why someone might take matters into their own hands due to frustration brought about by a feeling of being sold out by their elected officials.  Wether actual or perceived. 

It's the same sort of thing that leads a state like AZ to pass another law, even though there is one already on the books, that the feds are not enforcing, and then when a citizen or even civil official tries to enforce the law, the government steps in and obstructs their efforts.  Sooner or later, people will take matters into their own hands.

I do take exception to you twisting my words around, so I really would appreciate you showing me where I agreed that it is accpetable to commit arson, In any situation.

When you made this statement “While I agree it was illegal, I can understand their motivation” it sounded like you condoned the illegal action.  If that wasn’t the case, I’ll offer an apology, but it would help if you were a little more clear.

Bo, You seem to only be a law abiding Troll when your Liberal stance goes your way, but When Jay Seculow stands Up for the Law and the people of NY you attack pat Roberts......you claim to be a Fiscal conservative with a social agenda..You cannot keep jumping back and forth as you Think you are judge Troll when you discharge the local CC'rs of NY city....you must be Bi Polar As you have said many times judge Troll the Law is the Law weather we like it or not now go adjust your Meds

[Jabba]

Bigdog:  Am I going to have to post the Westboro Baptist videos again to prove there are extreme nut cases in every group?

I am a pretty accepting type of guy.  I am agnostic at best, and would be glad to live amongst peaceful Muslims.

The difference is that responsible mainstream Christians pubicly denouce those whackos. 

My trouble is... why are mainstream Muslims not VOCALLY denouncing the terrorists?  World wide.  Not just here.  Especially herre, and in other western countries... but everywhere.  When they START doing that, I'll be a lot more accomodating of them.  As long as they quietly sit on their hands, and are not part of the SOLUTION, I would rather live without them.

All that said, I in NO way condone crime.  I may UNDERSTAND.  But I can't CONDONE it.

Jabba

[fstsix]

Good point Jabba...as i recall Muslims danced in Joy when the Towers came down in NY... Jesus has already Judged those who have Blood on their hands, and for those who claim their Violence in Jesus name surely do not know him....And Bobbo ? what is the 11th commandment Jesus instructed his people to do before he ascended ? this should be interesting.....   

[Jabba]

Another thought too... At some point, I am afraid that we (western countries) are going to have to make a tough call to defend ourselves, and simply annihilate them.  I don't see any end to hostilities ever.  At some point, you just have to throw your hands up and say... "I have had enough!" and kill them all. 

If not... our current modern world with women's rights, freedoms and everything we stand for is doomed.

After all... they seek to dominate and subjugate us. Since we don't hold those same values... I'd just as soon eliminate them.

Probably a good thing I ain't in charge...

Jabba

[Bobbo]

Bigdog:  Am I going to have to post the Westboro Baptist videos again to prove there are extreme nut cases in every group?

I am a pretty accepting type of guy.  I am agnostic at best, and would be glad to live amongst peaceful Muslims.

The difference is that responsible mainstream Christians pubicly denouce those whackos. 

My trouble is... why are mainstream Muslims not VOCALLY denouncing the terrorists?  World wide.  Not just here.  Especially herre, and in other western countries... but everywhere.  When they START doing that, I'll be a lot more accomodating of them.  As long as they quietly sit on their hands, and are not part of the SOLUTION, I would rather live without them.

All that said, I in NO way condone crime.  I may UNDERSTAND.  But I can't CONDONE it.

Jabba

And they do, over and over, if you only bother to look for it.  Talk to your Muslim friends.  Ask how they feel.  Ask about how many services are dedicated to denouncing this behavior at their Mosque.  Read mainstream Muslim newsletters.  There’s tons of evidence out there, only if you open your eyes!