The Evolution and Demise of a Club

[Bobbo]

I’ve been a member of many clubs over the years, including computer clubs, car clubs, RC model clubs, and motorcycle clubs.  I’ve observed a troubling trend among most clubs.  There seems to be four phases to a club:

Phase one, organization:
A small group of people who enjoy a hobby realize that it could be beneficial to start a simple association to better share their passion.  They put out the word to let others know about the group, and invite them to join.

Phase two, growth:
As more people join, they organize functions and share experiences, offering help to fledgling hobbyists.  Most members jump in and help with the responsibilities, and a lot is accomplished.   As growth continues, most members continue to contribute to the club, and everyone is having a great time.

Phase three, bloat:
The club has prospered, and many people now want to be a part of it.  Unfortunately, most new members join only to receive the benefits of the club, and have no intention of contributing.  As the membership swells, participation goes down, and fewer people are willing to continue to volunteer their time and energy.

Phase four, invasion:
The club now sports very large membership numbers.  People with a religious or political agenda view the club as fresh fodder for their viewpoints.  They join, and constantly try to steer conversations towards their pet subjects.  They try to divide the club into subsections in an effort to sort out who’s “on their side”.   The divisiveness and bickering takes a toll on the membership, and fewer and fewer members participate.  Eventually the club collapses.

Unfortunately, the VRCC seems to be in Phase four.  I don’t know if we’ll ever recover the glory days of past years, but we can try.

[Sharkey]

Bobbo
I have been to a Inzane. I would say very proudly I am a member of a FAMILY not a club. My brothers and sisters have to be the most generous group I have ever met. When at the dinner in Frisco there was nary a dry eye in the house. I witnessed more selfless acts in one evening than I had in a long time.
So I would have to disagree with you.

Brian

[fstsix]

The judge has spoken # 364 he has seen it all and of coarse is innocent, some of us have seen the change of hands here also and know who was involved 

[RoadKill]

Every family works thru' the hard times....Some members dont have the love in their hearts to make it 'till the good times come around again. we aint givin up on you ,but you do what your heart can bear!

[..]

2 Inzanes.

50,000 miles on a Valkyrie.

Some of the best people I've met in my life.

BOBBO.

Your perception of the VRCC being at #4 is truly an indication of YOUR perception of how YOU hope the VRCC is today.

So wrong. So sad.

Go implode up your own ARSE.

[Stanley Steamer]

2 Inzanes.

50,000 miles on a Valkyrie.

Some of the best people I've met in my life.

BOBBO.

Your perception of the VRCC being at #4 is truly an indication of YOUR perception of how YOU hope the VRCC is today.

So wrong. So sad.

Go implode up your own ARSE.

Quit sugar coating it Paul.....

[RTaz]

  I seem to be thinking alot about this quote lately....

 "Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds."
Albert Einstein

[..]

2 Inzanes.

50,000 miles on a Valkyrie.

Some of the best people I've met in my life.

BOBBO.

Your perception of the VRCC being at #4 is truly an indication of YOUR perception of how YOU hope the VRCC is today.

So wrong. So sad.

Go implode up your own ARSE.

Quit sugar coating it Paul.....

Forum strong men like BOBBO really are the saddest, most pitiful and weakest form of humanity.

Has ANYONE on this forum ever met BOBBO?

[Bobbo]

2 Inzanes.

50,000 miles on a Valkyrie.

Some of the best people I've met in my life.

BOBBO.

Your perception of the VRCC being at #4 is truly an indication of YOUR perception of how YOU hope the VRCC is today.

So wrong. So sad.

Go implode up your own ARSE.

My post is an observation, not my wish for the club.  It was an attempt to ask people to recognize what’s important in a club, or family, if you will.  I’m sorry if you viewed it as a negative post, but that says more about your viewpoints than mine.

[Oss]

Never met the fellow, but then again I havent met a whole lot of you out there.

Cant disagree more with the premise of the post except for the last 3 words. WE CAN TRY

How great it feels to ride up to Inzane and hear my name........even if its OH crap OSS IS HERE

I would not trade this family for a parking lot full of Harleys.  We lift each other up when its needed and
share a love of this gem of a machine that Joe Boyd created way back when.

My life is much more fun since I joined this club and I am proud to say I have friends from just about every state (do I know anyone from south dakota?- MP are you happy I remembered you live in ND?) and even several provinces of canada, and dont forget Norway and Germany and England and Spain and Mexico....

New blood arrives regularly and some move on, and that is ok everything changes and All things must pass but for myself I hope to be around this place and sharing my Valkyrie experiences and my search for the next secretary for many more years.

Where is the next Inzane?

[JimL]

The people I have met on this board are some of the finest folks I have ever met in my 53 years on this planet.  There are many on here with whom I share common ideological views, a few that I don't.  I don't have a problem with that, ultimately it is me that decides to read a post, reply to a post, or simply say that I don't care to debate.  

I have enjoyed the debate on several topics that have popped up on this board over the years I have been coming here.  If I feel that the debate is no longer interesting or that it is pointless, then it is incumbent on me to realize that, take personal responsibility and move on.  It is not the fault of anyone else that I don't take personal responsibility for removing myself from a discussion that I don't enjoy or feel is pointless....and it certainly does not reflect on the other participants in the forum, the board, or the administrators of the board.

[..]

BOBBO,

Your observation speaks volumes about YOU.

[..]

Has ANYONE on this forum ever met BOBBO?

BOBBO, have you ever met anyone on this forum?

[Tropic traveler]

Hmmmm.  
That analysis seems a little deep for a bunch of folks that share a love for a certain kind of motorcycle.
The "club" is not important other than it is a great means of getting like minded people together to enjoy each others company. I have found the "stages" to be a little different.
First stage... It's all about the bikes.
Second stage... it's all about riding said bikes to get togethers.
Third stage... it's about finding the members that are kindred souls.
Fourth stage... friendships that transcend motorcycles & just become great friendships that endure well beyond where they started.

And the nicest thing about it is these stages are constantly happening as people come into the Valkyrie fold. The folks you cannot see on a regular or semi regular basis are right here on the VRCC to help you out as well.
It's all what you make it.
Cheers Bobbo.


  

[fstsix]

Most or should i say all the Valk riders here in New England stay clear of this board, I will be riding with Valks this weekend, The Worst part of this Association is the lack of trust, meaning if you really are a Motorcycle enthusiast You would have NO problem posting Picks of your ride or Family and it gives a trust to know when you go to a Valk event you can walk up and say hello! I am the same guy here as in the real world NOT HIDING SO MAN UP and Post away!! IT IS OK TO SHOW YOUR RIDE OR YOURSELF WT...!

[..]

Here I am.



Where's BOBBO???

Come on BOBBO. Man up. Can you?



1985

[Sludge]

Now now.. lets not pile on Bobbo.  Whether he has met anyone else or not is beside the point.  I took his post that he is worried about political divisions causing a rift in the membership and thus weakening the bonds that tie us together.

I dont think politics will kill the VRCC, but some may...  We each have our opinions.  When we dog pile someone...  THAT IMHO hurts the club because it makes a disagreement into a grudge, but thats just my opinion.   

[fstsix]

He is dead center of every post Political or religious...If ya can't take the heat get out of the kitchen....this is just a diversion to not take responsibility or accountability to fess up on WHO HE IS or Man UP LOL!! 

[Bobbo]

Has ANYONE on this forum ever met BOBBO?

BOBBO, have you ever met anyone on this forum?

Since you will probably repeat yourself until I post, I’ll comply.  I attended the first few InZane rallies in Zanesville Ohio.  I talked with Oz, Lamont, PBIT, and many of the founding members.  I bought stuff from Hal and other vendors.  I even talked to JeffK about fuel injection and blower combinations, which I doubt he remembers.  He was using a modified GM EFI unit, if I remember correctly.   I would go to other events like the March at Marysville from time to time and meet a lot of people, but I have no idea who they are here.  My involvement in other activities has limited my time to go to further events, so my main contact is this forum.

From the responses I’ve seen so far, it appears that several posters believe that my post was an appalling slam to the VRCC and its membership.  Nothing could be farther from the truth.  I see signs that the VRCC might be following the same path as other clubs.  I hope this isn’t the case, but wanted to point it out to help prevent it. 

[f6john]

     I've never met Bobbo either and he may be a great guy but I have to admit I don't understand him at all. Anytime I am engaged in a discussion and it is completely clear that I am on a different planet than those I have been conversing, I just quietly leave the room, sometimes to enter a different room, sometimes I just go home. But I have never found it necessary to try to convince anyone else that I am the most intelligent person in the room and if I only keep talking everyone will surely come to realize that very fact.

     I think that our mutual interests should be enough to keep the VRCC going a long time, politics and religion notwithstanding. However, if I find that Bobbo and a few others finally convince everyone else that they are the smartest people in the room, I will try to find my way back to the home planet.

[fstsix]

Has ANYONE on this forum ever met BOBBO?

BOBBO, have you ever met anyone on this forum?

Since you will probably repeat yourself until I post, I’ll comply.  I attended the first few InZane rallies in Zanesville Ohio.  I talked with Oz, Lamont, PBIT, and many of the founding members.  I bought stuff from Hal and other vendors.  I even talked to JeffK about fuel injection and blower combinations, which I doubt he remembers.  He was using a modified GM EFI unit, if I remember correctly.   I would go to other events like the March at Marysville from time to time and meet a lot of people, but I have no idea who they are here.  My involvement in other activities has limited my time to go to further events, so my main contact is this forum.

From the responses I’ve seen so far, it appears that several posters believe that my post was an appalling slam to the VRCC and its membership.  Nothing could be farther from the truth.  I see signs that the VRCC might be following the same path as other clubs.  I hope this isn’t the case, but wanted to point it out to help prevent it. 

This board is healthy and most are accountable, This i was here first thing is soo childish!...I have  worked on Pibits bike and he prolly does not remember so what? i know Lamonte and watched the breakup years ago HDL was involved, and many thought this board would be gone Surprise Your wrong again. IF you are not going to post rides or MC pictures and just continue to jump in the post you are part of the problem also! 

[Stude]

Well that was 30 sec. of my life I will never get back .... thanks a lot BoBo

[Jeff K]

Has ANYONE on this forum ever met BOBBO?

BOBBO, have you ever met anyone on this forum?

Since you will probably repeat yourself until I post, I’ll comply.  I attended the first few InZane rallies in Zanesville Ohio.  I talked with Oz, Lamont, PBIT, and many of the founding members.  I bought stuff from Hal and other vendors.  I even talked to JeffK about fuel injection and blower combinations, which I doubt he remembers.  He was using a modified GM EFI unit, if I remember correctly.   I would go to other events like the March at Marysville from time to time and meet a lot of people, but I have no idea who they are here.  My involvement in other activities has limited my time to go to further events, so my main contact is this forum.

From the responses I’ve seen so far, it appears that several posters believe that my post was an appalling slam to the VRCC and its membership.  Nothing could be farther from the truth.  I see signs that the VRCC might be following the same path as other clubs.  I hope this isn’t the case, but wanted to point it out to help prevent it. 

Yes, and no

Yes, I don't remember you at IZ
No, I never had a GM EMU on my bike.  
I try to stay away from GM stuff. Got some Ford stuff on her though, fuel pump, and coils.

But it's really not a big deal.

[Chattanooga Mark]

The Valkyrie models are such a small slice of a big company in a huge market. The fact that there are always new members showing up is wonderful and amazing. So many new members here and on the VOIA site are signs of a VERY strong association. I haven't been around here very long and it sure doesn't take long to see who's who by what they post.

I've only been to one Valkyrie event but I sure enjoyed the people I met. Like most others I suppose, I tend to major on the major things and minor on the minor ones with people. Valkyries are great motorcycles, I think we can all agree on that. But then I read some of the posts by a few here and I think the Valkyrie may be the only thing we agree on.

I couldn't disagree more with the original poster that this site or 'club' is in his stage 4. My gosh it's still growing and expanding with new Valkyrie owners.

YMMV,

Mark

[motomama]

members continue to contribute to the club, and everyone is having a great time.

Phase four, invasion:
The club now sports very large membership numbers.  People with a religious or political agenda view the club as fresh fodder for their viewpoints.  They join, and constantly try to steer conversations towards their pet subjects.  They try to divide the club into subsections in an effort to sort out who’s “on their side”.   The divisiveness and bickering takes a toll on the membership, and fewer and fewer members participate.  Eventually the club collapses.

Unfortunately, the VRCC seems to be in Phase four.  I don’t know if we’ll ever recover the glory days of past years, but we can try.

If you had been at Inzane X this year in Bellaire, MI, you would realize that this NOT the direction the VRCC is heading.  We had 515 attendees this year at Inzane!  It was a great turnout and one of our HIGHEST attended Inzanes!  It even topped the Inzane in Frisco in 2006 which had an attendance of 504!  So, in my opinion, the participation in this "club" is picking up.  And the VRCC is more than a club, it is one BIG family, and that is what makes it such a great group of people!  I love this extended family of mine!  

[Serk]

The VRCC is not a forum, and this forum is not the club...

It's a feature OF the club, but it is not the club...

[sugerbear]

bobbo, i live right down the road from ya, lets do lunch sometime.

[Valkahuna]

I have only been a member since June (?), and I have not have the pleasure of meeting any of you except on this board. I hope to fix that this winter down in Florida. I have also been in many clubs and organizations. Some thriving, and others not. This club is exciting and vibrant. It provides forums for anyone, no matter what their belief or opinion. 

The technical board will provide answers to about any question you may have about the bikes we are all so passionate about. 

But the greatest thing I find about VRCC is the shared concerns for anyone who comes here when they are threatened, or need help or support for anything. I have posted about this, and the fact that the people I have met here are as a whole some of the finast people anywhere. Truly a family!

Doesn't feel to me like a club or group in its final throes. Besides, you guys can't quit before I get the chance to share the wind with at least some of you. I mean jeez, I haven't even figured out how to post up any pics as yet, so you all can't quit. 

[Chrisj CMA]

I have been blessed with a better than average family.  Now, my family is spread from Chicago to Hawaii to Colorado and Florida.  We sometimes (last few years) dont talk much because we all have busy lives but we try to get parts of the family together as often as possible.  We argue about politics and religion LOTS, but thats because we dont all agree.  We do all love each other so it rarely ends badly.  I never thought it was a sign that there was something wrong with our family because we sometimes argue.

What I just said is not a metaphor about the VRCC.  It is actually how my family is.  

However, it is also exactly how the VRCC is.  Its a strong healthy family with lots (ok, a few) characters and sometimes there are disagreements. $hit happens get over it.

The only thing I dislike are the personal attacks.  I have resolved to not engage in anything that may even look like a personal attack.  If I disagree with one of you about what you have posted I may voice my opinion, but it will be about what was said, not who said it

[alph]

Alright, here’s my thought. 

Bobbo is intitled to his own opinion.  Just like that “eagle” guy (which by the way an eagle flew over my cycle while I was on my way to work this morning, cool!!).  but once again it has been proven that two things that should never be discussed are politics and religion!!  I believe that the administrators of this web site should start a separate page for these subjects.  To be honest, I’d visit it once in a while, when I want to prove someone wrong…… 

And as for seeing his cycle, that would be pleasant, I love seeing any picture of the valkyrie.

[Robert]

Bobo I find some things troubling here least of which is the club. First as most who are liberal you now see that most dont agree with your ideas so what do you do say the club is falling away from its original values and in the dieing stages. AS with all liberals if they cant make it implode or the way they want they walk away trying to do the same thing to any thing they join. Longevity is not a option and commitment well thats selective. Understanding the real intent and flow of a living thing such as this board well that also is well beyond what some are capable of understanding. Freedom as a concept is great but it needs to be enforced by people with wisdom and understanding. This has been the basis that you have fought every political post. Lack of a real understanding the hearts or intent of people. Clinging to ideals without the knowledge of what has gone in to achieving and continuing them. As the one that has instigated the continuation of most of the political posts here I am surprised that if you really had concern that it is going in the wrong direction (kinda like our country is now) that you would continue to post. But instead would be quiet and not post except to motorcycle posts. Here my folks we have a classic example of a liberal not being able to make things the way they want or destroy them and so predicts doom and gloom and eventually will go somewhere else with like minded people only to find anarchy so they bounce back to try to find and alter another situation for the worse. Bobo I dont agree with your ideals nor with the way your understanding works but that doesn't mean that I dont like you as a person. We all are packages some things good and some bad but dont try to declare this board going in the wrong direction when you cant really see some pretty basic building blocks of personal relationships and what makes people tick. I am pissed that just because you didn't get your way that like a little boy sulking, post to the very board you say is may be dead, the supposed epitaph to something you have no idea how to construct or run or just plain understand what is the glue that holds all this together. To me thats like having a friend who you talk to everyday and hes doing well doesn't agree with you and you walk into his house and tell him that hes doing it all wrong when your life style is half of what his is.

[JimL]

I have only been a member since June (?), and I have not have the pleasure of meeting any of you except on this board. I hope to fix that this winter down in Florida. I have also been in many clubs and organizations. Some thriving, and others not. This club is exciting and vibrant. It provides forums for anyone, no matter what their belief or opinion. 

The technical board will provide answers to about any question you may have about the bikes we are all so passionate about. 

But the greatest thing I find about VRCC is the shared concerns for anyone who comes here when they are threatened, or need help or support for anything. I have posted about this, and the fact that the people I have met here are as a whole some of the finast people anywhere. Truly a family!

Doesn't feel to me like a club or group in its final throes. Besides, you guys can't quit before I get the chance to share the wind with at least some of you. I mean jeez, I haven't even figured out how to post up any pics as yet, so you all can't quit. 

Hey Valkhuna...not to hijack the thread or anything like that, but what part of CT are you from?  Anywhere near Lebanon/Willimantic?

[Bobbo]

Yes, and no

Yes, I don't remember you at IZ
No, I never had a GM EMU on my bike.  
I try to stay away from GM stuff. Got some Ford stuff on her though, fuel pump, and coils.

But it's really not a big deal.

You’re right, it’s no big deal.  It’s been quite a few years since the first InZane, and I talked to several people about EFI conversion.  Someone was considering a GM unit and injectors, but I couldn’t remember who.

[Quicksilver]

Bobbo. From my perspective the club is in phase 2 of your index. It is still vibrant and growing. The technical database continues to grow. This becomes more essential as our machines age. If the purpose of the VRCC is to provide an organisation to exchange information about our bikes and to share experiences, then it is still fulfilling its function well.  IMHO

[Bobbo]

From the posts so far, a few understood my intent, and disagree that this forum is in phase four, which is a perfectly acceptable response.  I too, hope we stay in phase two.

But, the majority of the responses are so bile filled, that I still question the overall health of the board.  There are even posts that are quick to inject political attacks into a post that suggests that political attacks are harming the club!

Sill others, blinded by their rage and contempt, continue to believe my every post is critical of the VRCC and all its members.

It might be a good time to reevaluate why we joined this club, and reduce the political and religious posts, especially the propaganda based ones designed solely to provoke other members.

Soon, we will be entering the yearly PMS cycle (at least in the Northern half of the US), so reconsidering that political or religious post will become more important than ever.

[Jeff K]

Yes, and no

Yes, I don't remember you at IZ
No, I never had a GM EMU on my bike.  
I try to stay away from GM stuff. Got some Ford stuff on her though, fuel pump, and coils.

But it's really not a big deal.

You’re right, it’s no big deal.  It’s been quite a few years since the first InZane, and I talked to several people about EFI conversion.  Someone was considering a GM unit and injectors, but I couldn’t remember who.

Bill Bushling was going to use a GM setup. He always prodded me to just pull a system off of a 6 cyl car and graft it to the Valk. Hind sight says he may be right. Car units have the ability to "learn" much better than the aftermarket units do.

I just remembered I do have GM parts on my bike! The injectors are Delphi injectors meant for LS1 motors. I liked the small package size.

[Bobbo]

Bill Bushling was going to use a GM setup. He always prodded me to just pull a system off of a 6 cyl car and graft it to the Valk. Hind sight says he may be right. Car units have the ability to "learn" much better than the aftermarket units do.

I just remembered I do have GM parts on my bike! The injectors are Delphi injectors meant for LS1 motors. I liked the small package size.

Maybe that’s the part I remember.  Back then, most fuel injection used standard O2 sensors.  Newer ones use A/F sensors, and have more powerful processors, which can adapt faster, and over a wider range of environments.  They also depend on even more sensors to do the job, so it may be cumbersome to use a late model version.  Not to convert this to a tech conversation, but maybe you could do a write up if you experiment with newer units.

[Bigdog]

How great it feels to ride up to Inzane and hear my name........even if its OH crap OSS IS HERE

NOW THAT'S FUNNY....





This discussion reminds me of what a Pastor told us at Church one time....He said for those of us that were looking for a perfect church to join, that when we finally found that perfect church, What ever we did   ...."DO NOT JOIN IT" .... because,   then it wouldn't be perfect anymore.....

I love this VRCC family and I have never met a one of you Yet.  In order to have friends you have to be one.  You guys have been soooo good to me, and really don't know me from Adam.

Love you guys...& gals....

[Robert]

Bobbo I didn't realize that you knew this stuff awesome  Why so silent on it?

[fstsix]

From the posts so far, a few understood my intent, and disagree that this forum is in phase four, which is a perfectly acceptable response.  I too, hope we stay in phase two.

But, the majority of the responses are so bile filled, that I still question the overall health of the board.  There are even posts that are quick to inject political attacks into a post that suggests that political attacks are harming the club!

Sill others, blinded by their rage and contempt, continue to believe my every post is critical of the VRCC and all its members.

It might be a good time to reevaluate why we joined this club, and reduce the political and religious posts, especially the propaganda based ones designed solely to provoke other members.

Soon, we will be entering the yearly PMS cycle (at least in the Northern half of the US), so reconsidering that political or religious post will become more important than ever.

Here i hope this helps http://www.therapycounseling.com/