"president" Obama

[Chrisj CMA]

Some people get annoyed at me because I continue to use the "president" when referring to the person sitting behind the desk in the Oval Office.  Videos like this one are just one of the reasons I continue.  All I want to see is the transparancy that was promised.  Instead millions of dollars spent to hide something.........I just want to know whats being hidden
http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?llr=wsfjuicab&et=1103659686800&s=165652&e=0012n9UP9Zze32jAR6Oa6wduU1V85lbhJ27UufgnKuKF7gooeNTyghhkEtvCN3-9B0b2L0oX2VHK1KupP6kd2oTaO6xR8sc9Xreb33uJpPV6WOZSoUNRe5SkY9xfdVLwBzAROthOVKJuhrqJ2O5Zz5jY0rv8l_VEhpT1WYT25xzESw4NfJ8NMSBknMnzBNmfo1d-rKkZTHFIaMfHKPWdZU2HNAQJQH_30CYR3iGRH-G0ecmvmaJqxlGBRm8uwuhn2yC

[Bobbo]

And here is a perfect example of my concern…

[Robert]

Chris thanks interesting if there is nothing to hide then why wont the courts rule on the merits of the case and establish once and for all that the President is or is not a citizen? Easy right one ruling thats all. Not a big deal. Instead all have ruled on rules of law not the merits of the case a easy way to skirt the issue. So Bobo thats what I'm talking about too. Really if you are worried about free speech and liberty issues then you should just pass on knowing that its just somebody using their rights and applaud it not try to stop it. Just move on.

[Chrisj CMA]

And here is a perfect example of my concern…

Just so I understand you correctly...you are more concerned that someone may get mad if we talk about Obamas eligibility to be President than you are that the proof has been hidden from the American people.  You wonder if this club can survive an argument, but not if America can survive the fact that we have thrown the Constitution out the window in the last few years and now its worse than ever.  Not trying to offend just explain where Im coming from and understand your point of view

[Bobbo]

IMO, the content in this post is a politically charged piece of propaganda, designed only to appease and embolden the anti-Obama crowd.  The content of this message is worthless, since it’s only a one-sided opinion, devoid of any legal precedence or theory.  Like most conspiracy theory rhetoric, it seeks to prove a negative, and furthers the idea that lack of evidence is evidence of a crime.

[Chrisj CMA]

Bobbo,



Well, thats just about the whole point........its normal for the person running for president to prove he is eligible.  Obama hasnt, and he is not being taken to task on it.  Its the whole lack of evidence I am talking about.  All we (those pesky anti-Obama crowd people) want is to see the evidence.  I dont necessarily say there is a crime here, unless there is no valid proof of citizenship.  Yeah! at that point I see the process as:

Impeach

Jury trial

Jail time

And not just for Barrack Hussain Obama, but for any and all that knowingly covered up the facts.

[JimL]

And here is a perfect example of my concern…

Bobbo your response is true from more than one perspective.  The "birther" debate bores me, I have nothing to add to it, which is precisely why I have enough intelligence to keep my godd**n mouth closed and not do something truly ridiculous and respond to something I have no interest in debating.  However I do respect ChrisJ's right to discuss it with interested parties on this forum. Quite frankly our differences in ideology does not bother me....there are others on this forum that I disagree with but I am able to have civil, intelligent debate with them.

However the perspective that if someone posts something you disagree with, you consider it a personal affront...and somehow diminishes the value of this forum; in my humble opinion falls somewhere between being intolerant and being completely irrational.

There are lots of posts on this forum that don't personally interest me, some enjoy posting photos of their kids, some enjoy musical posts, others like the boobies posts.  I applaud the fact that this forum is a place where they can enjoy sharing this stuff and discussing with others THAT MIGHT HAVE AN INTEREST.

What if the ladies on this forum when into a diatribe each time a scantily clad female photo was posted, there are certainly many women that might consider this an affront to them.  However, I suspect that the ladies that don't like the risque photos HAVE ENOUGH SENSE NOT TO OPEN THE  POST.....AND CERTAINLY ENOUGH SENSE NOT TO CONTINUALLY PARTICIPATE IN A POST THAT THEY DON'T LIKE!

[Jeff K]

I never open CT threads because I really don't care about the subject, and though I disagree with the whole CT issue, I'm 100% sure that the pro CT people don't care what I think about the subject.
So we get along just fine on the board.
But some people feel the need to jump in to a thread that they know is going to make them upset, and go "bezerker". I really can't understand why.

[Sludge]

Just a side question here, that is kinda related to the issue of citizenship.

Does dual citizenship in any way effect the qualification for a person to hold the office of President?

I cant remember anything specific that does, but it appears to me to be a conflict of interest were it to be legal.

[Chrisj CMA]

Just a side question here, that is kinda related to the issue of citizenship.

Does dual citizenship in any way effect the qualification for a person to hold the office of President?

I cant remember anything specific that does, but it appears to me to be a conflict of interest were it to be legal.

It used to be impossible to be  dual citizen here.  You now can become a US citizen and retain the other but that is not satsfactory for running for President.  You must be a Natural Citizen by birth.  If you are a natural (by birth) citizen of the United States AND by some other situation recieve an additional citizenship from another country I dont think there would be a problem, but not if you immigrated here and became a US citizen.


The big question about Obama is where was he born.  The Kenyans say they have built a memorial at Obamas birth place.  I have seen Michelle call Kenya his "home country" and I have seen Obama himself say he wasnt born in Hawaii, yet that is the official answer that he was........

[alph]

I never open CT threads because I really don't care about the subject, and though I disagree with the whole CT issue, I'm 100% sure that the pro CT people don't care what I think about the subject.
So we get along just fine on the board.
But some people feel the need to jump in to a thread that they know is going to make them upset, and go "bezerker". I really can't understand why.

my good buddy, nitro, just put a CT on his IS and i can't wait to ride it!!  my wife doesn't want me to get a CT, and i'm so pussy wipped that i have to obide by her wishes.  but, what she doesn't know won't hurt her right?  i'm sure that some on this board will think of "crash and burn" synario's but then again, they also said that if man were ment to fly god would have given him wings!  don't really know what that has to do with obama's birth certificate, but it is valk related!!!

[Valkahuna]

Just a side question here, that is kinda related to the issue of citizenship.

Does dual citizenship in any way effect the qualification for a person to hold the office of President?

I cant remember anything specific that does, but it appears to me to be a conflict of interest were it to be legal.

I am a Naturalized Citizen of the USA. I immigrated from Germany when I was eleven, though I did not get Naturalized until 1983 when I was 35. (Long Story!) Even had a Top secret clearance in the USAF, and was Nuclear Weapons OK'd (worked on B-52). 

Anyway, when I became a US citizen, I had to renounce my allegiance to Germany, and ANY OTHER Foreign nation before I was able to be sworn in. Now, some other US citizens have dual citizenship, for instance, my business partner got himself dual citizenship from Ireland, for which he was eligible in the eyes of Ireland, since his grandfather was born there. That does not mean that the USA gave him this dual citizenship, Ireland did.

As a naturalized citizen I have all the same rights and priviledges as a natural born citizen. except that I can not ever become President of the USA. I don't know if as a naturalized citizen I could hold dual citizenship. The rules may have changed but in my eyes, I would not do it! I feel that for the right to be a citizen, I GLADLY gave up the right to call myself a citizen of any other nation. 

For these reasons, and having watched my parents go through red tape, getting permission to immigrate, geting a visa, having to find a sponsor for here in the US, watching them learn English, and many other reasons is why I am so interested and disgusted in how we have now thrown the doors open to illegal immigration into this country. It is also why I have interest that things are done legally, and not circumvented for political convenience.

I don't know if that answer your question about dual citizenship, but it is something near and dear to me.

[junior]

the sky is falling the sky is falling!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

[Skinhead]

My wife is Korean and became a naturalized US citizen.  We had to pay the fee twice, cause they lost her application the first time, I called the INS because we neveer heard any thing on the first application.  They said you have to refile, oh yeah, the fee is now $90, not the $60 I payed the first time.  When I asked why I had to pay again, they said they had no record of the first application, when I asked about my cancelled check they said they would not process the application with out the fee being paid.  Then she had to learn english, american history, be interviewed and pass the history test.  Took about five years total. 

I also have a problem with our current immigration policy.

[Chrisj CMA]

the sky is falling the sky is falling!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

How is that Junior, just wondering.........thats how you see it?

[Jeff K]

I never open CT threads because I really don't care about the subject, and though I disagree with the whole CT issue, I'm 100% sure that the pro CT people don't care what I think about the subject.
So we get along just fine on the board.
But some people feel the need to jump in to a thread that they know is going to make them upset, and go "bezerker". I really can't understand why.

my good buddy, nitro, just put a CT on his IS and i can't wait to ride it!!  my wife doesn't want me to get a CT, and i'm so pussy wipped that i have to obide by her wishes.  but, what she doesn't know won't hurt her right?  i'm sure that some on this board will think of "crash and burn" synario's but then again, they also said that if man were ment to fly god would have given him wings!  don't really know what that has to do with obama's birth certificate, but it is valk related!!!

I'm not in the "crash and burn" camp. I'm in the "rode one and didn't like it" camp.

[x]

Just a side question here, that is kinda related to the issue of citizenship.

Does dual citizenship in any way effect the qualification for a person to hold the office of President?

I cant remember anything specific that does, but it appears to me to be a conflict of interest were it to be legal.

I am a Naturalized Citizen of the USA. I immigrated from Germany when I was eleven, though I did not get Naturalized until 1983 when I was 35. (Long Story!) Even had a Top secret clearance in the USAF, and was Nuclear Weapons OK'd (worked on B-52).  

Anyway, when I became a US citizen, I had to renounce my allegiance to Germany, and ANY OTHER Foreign nation before I was able to be sworn in. Now, some other US citizens have dual citizenship, for instance, my business partner got himself dual citizenship from Ireland, for which he was eligible in the eyes of Ireland, since his grandfather was born there. That does not mean that the USA gave him this dual citizenship, Ireland did.

As a naturalized citizen I have all the same rights and priviledges as a natural born citizen. except that I can not ever become President of the USA. I don't know if as a naturalized citizen I could hold dual citizenship. The rules may have changed but in my eyes, I would not do it! I feel that for the right to be a citizen, I GLADLY gave up the right to call myself a citizen of any other nation.  

For these reasons, and having watched my parents go through red tape, getting permission to immigrate, geting a visa, having to find a sponsor for here in the US, watching them learn English, and many other reasons is why I am so interested and disgusted in how we have now thrown the doors open to illegal immigration into this country. It is also why I have interest that things are done legally, and not circumvented for political convenience.

I don't know if that answer your question about dual citizenship, but it is something near and dear to me.

Unless you actually renounced you German citizenship, in writing, in front of a German consular official, you are probably still considered a citizen of Germany by that country.  Taking the US oath is insufficient in terms of renunciation.

In 1995, the Supreme Court ruled that naturalized US citizens with dual citizenship, hold exactly the same rights with respect to citizenships as do natural born citizens.  I was born in Canada, therefore hold a Canadian passport.  My father was English, therefore I hold a British passport by right of descent.  I became a naturalized US citizen in 1978, and hold a US passport.  I always travel on my US passport unless I am entering the UK/EU for work.

Interesting article about citizenship in the US:  http://www.richw.org/dualcit/

PS:  The thing about the birther bezerkers is that that they want the President to prove that he is a citizen, whereas the way it is supposed to work is that the birther bezerkers are supposed to present evidence supporting their stance since they are the ones raising the stink.  They can't do that since the President was born in Hawaii.  But that doesn't stop idiots like Orly Taitz from posting juvenile forgeries of Obama's alleged Kenyan birth certificate, that then go viral on the right wing boards, causing the bezerkers to rant even louder.

It's really simple:  Show some proof that Obama wasn't born in Hawaii and people might start listening.  Meanwhile.... ZZZZZzzzzzz.

[Valkahuna]

Just a side question here, that is kinda related to the issue of citizenship.

Does dual citizenship in any way effect the qualification for a person to hold the office of President?

I cant remember anything specific that does, but it appears to me to be a conflict of interest were it to be legal.

I am a Naturalized Citizen of the USA. I immigrated from Germany when I was eleven, though I did not get Naturalized until 1983 when I was 35. (Long Story!) Even had a Top secret clearance in the USAF, and was Nuclear Weapons OK'd (worked on B-52).  

Anyway, when I became a US citizen, I had to renounce my allegiance to Germany, and ANY OTHER Foreign nation before I was able to be sworn in. Now, some other US citizens have dual citizenship, for instance, my business partner got himself dual citizenship from Ireland, for which he was eligible in the eyes of Ireland, since his grandfather was born there. That does not mean that the USA gave him this dual citizenship, Ireland did.

As a naturalized citizen I have all the same rights and priviledges as a natural born citizen. except that I can not ever become President of the USA. I don't know if as a naturalized citizen I could hold dual citizenship. The rules may have changed but in my eyes, I would not do it! I feel that for the right to be a citizen, I GLADLY gave up the right to call myself a citizen of any other nation.  

For these reasons, and having watched my parents go through red tape, getting permission to immigrate, geting a visa, having to find a sponsor for here in the US, watching them learn English, and many other reasons is why I am so interested and disgusted in how we have now thrown the doors open to illegal immigration into this country. It is also why I have interest that things are done legally, and not circumvented for political convenience.

I don't know if that answer your question about dual citizenship, but it is something near and dear to me.

Unless you actually renounced you German citizenship, in writing, in front of a German consular official, you are probably still considered a citizen of Germany by that country.  Taking the US oath is insufficient in terms of renunciation.

In 1995, the Supreme Court ruled that naturalized US citizens with dual citizenship, hold exactly the same rights with respect to citizenships as do natural born citizens.  I was born in Canada, therefore hold a Canadian passport.  My father was English, therefore I hold a British passport by right of descent.  I became a naturalized US citizen in 1978, and hold a US passport.  I always travel on my US passport unless I am entering the UK/EU for work.

Interesting article about citizenship in the US:  http://www.richw.org/dualcit/

PS:  The thing about the birther bezerkers is that that they want the President to prove that he is a citizen, whereas the way it is supposed to work is that the birther bezerkers are supposed to present evidence supporting their stance since they are the ones raising the stink.  They can't do that since the President was born in Hawaii.  But that doesn't stop idiots like Orly Taitz from posting juvenile forgeries of Obama's alleged Kenyan birth certificate, that then go viral on the right wing boards, causing the bezerkers to rant even louder.

It's really simple:  Show some proof that Obama wasn't born in Hawaii and people might start listening.  Meanwhile.... ZZZZZzzzzzz.

SE, Thanks for the explanation. I know for a fact that Germany would still consider me a citizen since I was born there. But I am an American, and proud to be!

[x]

SE, Thanks for the explanation. I know for a fact that Germany would still consider me a citizen since I was born there. But I am an American, and proud to be!

Same, Same... proud to be an American.

[junior]

the sky is falling the sky is falling!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

How is that Junior, just wondering.........thats how you see it?

it just seemed like it had to be said, and it sounded better than me acting like i had my painties in a bunch. lol

so tell me chris did you atleast grin when you read that?

[Chrisj CMA]

the sky is falling the sky is falling!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

How is that Junior, just wondering.........thats how you see it?

it just seemed like it had to be said, and it sounded better than me acting like i had my painties in a bunch. lol

so tell me chris did you atleast grin when you read that?

no...just seemed outta place.  I mean its not like we are talking end of the world, total economic collaps or killing each other for the last can of beans.  If someone starts that rant, then your sky falling comment would fit

And for the one(s) that think there is no evidence that Obama wasnt born in Hawaii.....like I said, seeing the three people say with their own lips:

Michelle.......we visited "HIS home country of Kenya"
Obama.......I wasnt born in hawaii...Im from Kenya

And the government official from Kenya that said they have built a monument at the birth cite

Now, this LT COL Army dr.  He has 18 years of service.  2 more to retire (probably wont happen now)  Let me tell you a Lt Col sees more info, and when I say info I mean not from questionable news sources........vetted confirmed information than lower ranking military and WAY more than you or I, and he feels strongly enough to put his whole career at risk.....that there is some evidence my friend.

[x]

the sky is falling the sky is falling!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

How is that Junior, just wondering.........thats how you see it?

it just seemed like it had to be said, and it sounded better than me acting like i had my painties in a bunch. lol

so tell me chris did you atleast grin when you read that?

no...just seemed outta place.  I mean its not like we are talking end of the world, total economic collaps or killing each other for the last can of beans.  If someone starts that rant, then your sky falling comment would fit

And for the one(s) that think there is no evidence that Obama wasnt born in Hawaii.....like I said, seeing the three people say with their own lips:

Michelle.......we visited "HIS home country of Kenya"
Obama.......I wasnt born in hawaii...Im from Kenya

And the government official from Kenya that said they have built a monument at the birth cite

Now, this LT COL Army dr.  He has 18 years of service.  2 more to retire (probably wont happen now)  Let me tell you a Lt Col sees more info, and when I say info I mean not from questionable news sources........vetted confirmed information than lower ranking military and WAY more than you or I, and he feels strongly enough to put his whole career at risk.....that there is some evidence my friend.

You are a laugh riot... truly one of the bezerker family.  One quote by Michelle, which is correct, but which you LIBERALLY misinterpret to suit your own ends... and one quote that you cannot cite a source, a video or a clip.

C'mon, bezerker... show me a trail.  Show me where Obama was born in Kenya.  Show me how and when he got into the US. Show me how he picked up his SS number through some sort of fraud.  Then I might listen.  Until then you are a birther bezerker... and laughable.

[Chrisj CMA]

SE call me anyting you want.........it wont change anything, with all due respect it just makes you a name caller

[fstsix]

Hahhaha...Like this would be the first time in the last 10 years a President was Impeached.....We are talking Government here....or should i say Politicians Career ones at that, OJ Simpson was innocent when he was Tried by the Local DA...when Barry Scheck and his Private Practice team ran over the Prosecutors It was obvious Money can Buy Freedom...But again Classic case of Obama's Chicago thugs go on trial 22 counts cannot be proved, But "One"count Lying again !!! LOL imagine That!! Just a lie that's it? i just can't help but laugh when i see the Government Prosecute the Government. Hey Blogo here is the deal......Don't take the stand Shut Up!! don't start naming names on the Stand and this will ALL go away    http://www.chicagobreakingnews.com/2010/08/14th-day-for-blagojevich-jury.html

[x]

Hahhaha...Like this would be the first time in the last 10 years a President was Impeached.....We are talking Government here....or should i say Politicians Career ones at that, OJ Simpson was innocent when he was Tried by the Local DA...when Barry Scheck and his Private Practice team ran over the Prosecutors It was obvious Money can Buy Freedom...But again Classic case of Obama's Chicago thugs go on trial 22 counts cannot be proved, But "One"count Lying again !!! LOL imagine That!! Just a lie that's it? i just can't help but laugh when i see the Government Prosecute the Government. Hey Blogo here is the deal......Don't take the stand Shut Up!! don't start naming names on the Stand and this will ALL go away    http://www.chicagobreakingnews.com/2010/08/14th-day-for-blagojevich-jury.html

Ahhh... a good ole conspiracy theory... just one thing... "Where's the beef?"

[fstsix]

Hahhaha...Like this would be the first time in the last 10 years a President was Impeached.....We are talking Government here....or should i say Politicians Career ones at that, OJ Simpson was innocent when he was Tried by the Local DA...when Barry Scheck and his Private Practice team ran over the Prosecutors It was obvious Money can Buy Freedom...But again Classic case of Obama's Chicago thugs go on trial 22 counts cannot be proved, But "One"count Lying again !!! LOL imagine That!! Just a lie that's it? i just can't help but laugh when i see the Government Prosecute the Government. Hey Blogo here is the deal......Don't take the stand Shut Up!! don't start naming names on the Stand and this will ALL go away    http://www.chicagobreakingnews.com/2010/08/14th-day-for-blagojevich-jury.html

Ahhh... a good ole conspiracy theory... just one thing... "Where's the beef?"

Well for the first time Wayne we agree The Beef just  Disappeared LOL!!!

[alph]

First off, obama will never be impeached.  It is more likely that some idiot will assassinate him, making him more of a hero.

On another note, while cleaning out my mothers house in Arizona I came across their naturalization papers!!  Both my mother and father became American citizens in 1968!!  15 years after coming to America!!  Yet another amazing thing that my parents never talked to me about.  I plan on having it framed and placed on a wall in our basement memorializing their life.  

Just as skinheads wife, my parents had to achieve required standards to become American citizens, speaking and understanding English was one of them, and in the early ‘60’s that wasn’t easy.  There were no signs printed in their language, unless you went to the Italian markets down on Maxwell Street in Chicago!!  Both my parents were required to know all the presidents, states, and state capitals, along with US history, etc. etc….  I believe it was harder to become a US citizen then, then it is today, still doesn’t give people the right to just cross an invisible line in the desert to make them American with full benefits.

[x]

SE call me anyting you want.........it wont change anything, with all due respect it just makes you a name caller

What cracks me up is you take up an extreme, unsupported position, happily wallowing in your ignorance, and expect people to respect this lunacy, treating it as a valid point of view?  Is this like, along the lines of, "all lifestyles are created equal"?  Next thing, you'll be asking me to believe the moon is made of green cheese, and the pyramids were built by Martians.

[alph]

SE call me anyting you want.........it wont change anything, with all due respect it just makes you a name caller

What cracks me up is you take up an extreme, unsupported position, happily wallowing in your ignorance, and expect people to respect this lunacy, treating it as a valid point of view?  Is this like, along the lines of, "all lifestyles are created equal"?  Next thing, you'll be asking me to believe the moon is made of green cheese, and the pyramids were built by Martians.

SE you don’t know crap!!  Everyone here knows that the moon is made of AMERICAN  cheese!!

[Robert]

Proving that anyone is a citizen of the USA is not a extreme position at all its done every day and in
Arizona that is exactly what the upset was about. To SE and all others that shoot down this point with or without merits why is it so hard For Obama to mail or bring a birth certificate to the one just one court and prove that he is indeed a American citizen. If there was any doubt about any of us for any document there would be no problem with the courts issuing a subpoena to do that very thing. But if Obama does this and it is proved a fake then he is guilty of fraud, forgery, and it will be entered into court documents and provide the ammo that anyone would need to file charges against him. By him not doing this it doesn't allow official action so he doesn't want to provide his own evidence of wrong. This is a strategic position meant to stall or just plain stone wall the truth what ever it may be from coming out.  Now as the old saying goes where there's smoke there's fire I believe applies to this or at the very least he is saying hes above the law. In reality the military court said the same thing they were worried about embarrassing him, the courts wouldn't blink a eye if it were you or me. SE you are not nor ever will be a real American citizen and therefore really your opinion doesn't matter to much.  As resident of Japan having many citizenship doesn't give you the ability to understand the majority of US citizens and in fact are really one of the problems. Your situation is just like the Mexicans they come here spoil the pot and cant understand why in the world we want to restrict them from citizenship. Live here work here plan on dying here and have family that died to keep this country then you may be considered a real Citizen but for now just another import with a opinion telling the greatest country in the US how things should be. Its kind of like a couple living together or being married the commitment makes you see things from another perspective.  You see the US as a safe haven or a place to go in case things hit the fan or maybe a tax shelter for your buisness since Briton may be to high on taxes or even Canada, So you keep all the trimmings of a American except the heart. The ones that went through all to become American citizens and lived worked and died here are the ones that are Americans people such as yourself are just mercenaries or opportunists. A result of the lack of commitment to one country and the establishing of a global society rather than the sovereignty of the US. Part of a ideology that seeks to put all on the same level rather than appreciating what Americans have gone through to not only keep our country but most of the world too. That American has been blessed beyond what other countries have been that financially the US is still the strongest but not for long. That American benefits shouldn't be just given out randomly and without thought to the price that was paid by all that came before. So you see your legally American but in reality are maybe a Mexican,Cuban,Sudanese what? It is about a point of view but not about this lone situation, I have no problem with anyone with a opposite point of view being a American Citizen in heart and legally but I do have a problem with a mercenary coming to this board insulting all who are real people while living in another country NOT a US citizen in any real form except legally. I tell you its time to take out the garbage.

[x]

Proving that anyone is a citizen of the USA is not a extreme position at all its done every day and in
Arizona that is exactly what the upset was about. To SE and all others that shoot down this point with or without merits why is it so hard For Obama to mail or bring a birth certificate to the one just one court and prove that he is indeed a American citizen. If there was any doubt about any of us for any document there would be no problem with the courts issuing a subpoena to do that very thing. But if Obama does this and it is proved a fake then he is guilty of fraud, forgery, and it will be entered into court documents and provide the ammo that anyone would need to file charges against him. By him not doing this it doesn't allow official action so he doesn't want to provide his own evidence of wrong. This is a strategic position meant to stall or just plain stone wall the truth what ever it may be from coming out.  Now as the old saying goes where there's smoke there's fire I believe applies to this or at the very least he is saying hes above the law. In reality the military court said the same thing they were worried about embarrassing him, the courts wouldn't blink a eye if it were you or me. SE you are not nor ever will be a real American citizen and therefore really your opinion doesn't matter to much.  As resident of Japan having many citizenship doesn't give you the ability to understand the majority of US citizens and in fact are really one of the problems. Your situation is just like the Mexicans they come here spoil the pot and cant understand why in the world we want to restrict them from citizenship. Live here work here plan on dying here and have family that died to keep this country then you may be considered a real Citizen but for now just another import with a opinion telling the greatest country in the US how things should be. Its kind of like a couple living together or being married the commitment makes you see things from another perspective.  You see the US as a safe haven or a place to go in case things hit the fan or maybe a tax shelter for your buisness since Briton may be to high on taxes or even Canada, So you keep all the trimmings of a American except the heart. The ones that went through all to become American citizens and lived worked and died here are the ones that are Americans people such as yourself are just mercenaries or opportunists. A result of the lack of commitment to one country and the establishing of a global society rather than the sovereignty of the US

Robert, first of all, you are full of crap.  I am an American citizen, a conscious choice that I made, unlike you, who stumbled into it by virtue of geography at your birth.  And Robert, unlike you, better men than you have concluded that naturalized citizens are in no way inferior to natural born citizens, with the exception of the Constitutional requirement that the President be natural born.

And you prove, once again, what a bunch of dunces are the birther bezerkers.  Why can't any of the bezerker clowns come up with evidence that Obama is not a citizen.  The Supreme Court has rejected the lunacy of the birther berzerkers and yet you persist.
 
Prove up to me that you haven't done a crime.  C'mon, man... same difference... prove to me that you haven't committed a crime.  Get it?  Probably not.

And Robert... I've just modified this post to say that you sound like a hell of a racist.  A pox on people like you.

[junior]

Chris, in this thead we have politics,car tires,name calling,boobies, but no religion!!!!!!!
jeues christ its a start of the end of the world. but thats olny my oppinion

[junior]

my bad i just brought in the religion

[Chrisj CMA]

Chris, in this thead we have politics,car tires,name calling,boobies, but no religion!!!!!!!
jeues christ its a start of the end of the world. but thats olny my oppinion

Junior if you are trying to say that the end of our days on this planet seem nearer lately.....I tend to agree, but Id really check spelling...... Jesus should start with the capitol J and at least the Name Jesus should be spelled correctly I mess up many others but not that one

[Valkahuna]

Proving that anyone is a citizen of the USA is not a extreme position at all its done every day and in
Arizona that is exactly what the upset was about. To SE and all others that shoot down this point with or without merits why is it so hard For Obama to mail or bring a birth certificate to the one just one court and prove that he is indeed a American citizen. If there was any doubt about any of us for any document there would be no problem with the courts issuing a subpoena to do that very thing. But if Obama does this and it is proved a fake then he is guilty of fraud, forgery, and it will be entered into court documents and provide the ammo that anyone would need to file charges against him. By him not doing this it doesn't allow official action so he doesn't want to provide his own evidence of wrong. This is a strategic position meant to stall or just plain stone wall the truth what ever it may be from coming out.  Now as the old saying goes where there's smoke there's fire I believe applies to this or at the very least he is saying hes above the law. In reality the military court said the same thing they were worried about embarrassing him, the courts wouldn't blink a eye if it were you or me. SE you are not nor ever will be a real American citizen and therefore really your opinion doesn't matter to much.  As resident of Japan having many citizenship doesn't give you the ability to understand the majority of US citizens and in fact are really one of the problems. Your situation is just like the Mexicans they come here spoil the pot and cant understand why in the world we want to restrict them from citizenship. Live here work here plan on dying here and have family that died to keep this country then you may be considered a real Citizen but for now just another import with a opinion telling the greatest country in the US how things should be. Its kind of like a couple living together or being married the commitment makes you see things from another perspective.  You see the US as a safe haven or a place to go in case things hit the fan or maybe a tax shelter for your buisness since Briton may be to high on taxes or even Canada, So you keep all the trimmings of a American except the heart. The ones that went through all to become American citizens and lived worked and died here are the ones that are Americans people such as yourself are just mercenaries or opportunists. A result of the lack of commitment to one country and the establishing of a global society rather than the sovereignty of the US

Robert, first of all, you are full of crap.  I am an American citizen, a conscious choice that I made, unlike you, who stumbled into it by virtue of geography at your birth.  And Robert, unlike you, better men than you have concluded that naturalized citizens are in no way inferior to natural born citizens, with the exception of the Constitutional requirement that the President be natural born.

And you prove, once again, what a bunch of dunces are the birther bezerkers.  Why can't any of the bezerker clowns come up with evidence that Obama is not a citizen.  The Supreme Court has rejected the lunacy of the birther berzerkers and yet you persist.
 
Prove up to me that you haven't done a crime.  C'mon, man... same difference... prove to me that you haven't committed a crime.  Get it?  Probably not.

And Robert... I've just modified this post to say that you sound like a hell of a racist.  A pox on people like you.

SE: Hey wait a minute! I'm naturalised and don't feel maligned by anything Robert said! He spoke more about not being immersed in the every day issues of a country , and being insulated from the problems. I think being an American means having to live like one.  

Here is a question for you. Why can't you just state your position without calling anyone that does not agree with you either an idiot, or some other derogatory, and highly inflammatory name? That only takes away what little integrity you still have left. Come on, I think you are smarter than that. Stop making yourself look like some ranting dumba$$!

[x]

my bad i just brought in the religion

Yah well, 'Junior'... it's a good handle.  "Blessed are the peace makers".

[Robert]

SE FAIL

This is from the Man project that is in Kentucky so I hope they do have something in Japan I think it would do you good to attend more often since you FAILED at almost every one of their objectives.
These are the things we offer as a world class men’s training and education organization. Click on the links to learn more.

    * Mature Masculinity - An empowered approach to being a man in today’s world. We can define many things that set the mature masculine apart: More
          o Accountability
          o Authenticity
          o Compassion
          o Generosity
          o Integrity
          o Leadership
          o Multicultural Awareness
          o Respect
    * Initiation - Learning the value of challenge and the power of support. More
    * Men Helping Men - Breaking the competitive cycle, learning to resolve conflict, challenging old habits, finding acceptance. More
    * Connection To Feelings - Emotional literacy is recognized by psychologists as a key factor in successfully dealing with many of life's most complex issues. read here

The ManKind Project has adopted the values and institutional stances reflected below:
READ    Institutional Stand Against Abuse    
READ    Sexual Orientation & The ManKind Project    
READ    The ManKind Project Ethical Relationship Policy    

Someone that posts this as a club that they belong to with these values should hold himself to their standards. I am amazed at any man not able to bridle his own emotions enough to live up to the standards of a organization that he picks or belongs to is truly unstable in all his ways. If a man cannot live up the the standards of a club he belongs to how is he going to live to be a citizen of another country that he doesn't even live in or to fully appreciate the things real citizens go through?

When they arrest someone and bring them to court it is on accusations and some evidence when the court gets it then its tried by jury to say what the real deal is that is American law. Enough evidence has already been presented to the courts but the courts did a technical ruling saying the one that brought it to court didn't have that authority. The person that brought this to court originally and did all the leg work is a American born citizen a lawyer so why when challenging the the birth of a president why does a American citizen not have that right? Just another example of failure to understand not only the issue at hand but the heart and laws of the US goodbye se come back some day when you growup and become a man.

[Chrisj CMA]

SE call me anyting you want.........it wont change anything, with all due respect it just makes you a name caller

What cracks me up is you take up an extreme, unsupported position, happily wallowing in your ignorance, and expect people to respect this lunacy, treating it as a valid point of view?  Is this like, along the lines of, "all lifestyles are created equal"?  Next thing, you'll be asking me to believe the moon is made of green cheese, and the pyramids were built by Martians.

ok dude......youre way to sharp for me today    glad you cleared all that up for us

[x]

SE call me anyting you want.........it wont change anything, with all due respect it just makes you a name caller

What cracks me up is you take up an extreme, unsupported position, happily wallowing in your ignorance, and expect people to respect this lunacy, treating it as a valid point of view?  Is this like, along the lines of, "all lifestyles are created equal"?  Next thing, you'll be asking me to believe the moon is made of green cheese, and the pyramids were built by Martians.

ok dude......youre way to sharp for me today    glad you cleared all that up for us

Definitely sharper than you... on any day... and I wasn't clearing up for 'us'... your typical escape mechanism... I was clearing it up for YOU.  Can't you stand on your own two feet without having to refer to that nebulous cloud "us", as though you somehow represent some larger group?  You're spouting your crap as an individual, why do you need to invoke "us" to support it?

[Skinhead]

SE call me anyting you want.........it wont change anything, with all due respect it just makes you a name caller

What cracks me up is you take up an extreme, unsupported position, happily wallowing in your ignorance, and expect people to respect this lunacy, treating it as a valid point of view?  Is this like, along the lines of, "all lifestyles are created equal"?  Next thing, you'll be asking me to believe the moon is made of green cheese, and the pyramids were built by Martians.

ok dude......youre way to sharp for me today    glad you cleared all that up for us

Definitely sharper than you... on any day... and I wasn't clearing up for 'us'... your typical escape mechanism... I was clearing it up for YOU.  Can't you stand on your own two feet without having to refer to that nebulous cloud "us", as though you somehow represent some larger group?  You're spouting your crap as an individual, why do you need to invoke "us" to support it?

Ya Know, I like to read all these posts, just to get a feel for the people in this club that I haven't yet met, or don't know very well.  I have found it to be a very effective way to judge how I will get along with some one.

I must say SE seems to be very intolerant of people that disagree with him, chrisj CMA seems very passonate about his beliefs.  I don't mean to offend either by this post, but I wish you two would just realize that you don't and probably will never agree with each other, and give the insulting and name calling a rest.

I found it to be pretty easy to get along with people I disagree with, if I can't, I leave them be.

I'll still read your posts, I personally think Obama and his cronnies are crooks and are ruining this country, but then I think that about most politicians.