Handgun Questions

[Smitty W.S.]

WidowsSon:  Like on a searchable public forum?  2funny

Partner, I've spent a lifetime spitting in the face of political correctness, and never been sorry once.  Truth may not be an absolute defense, but it goes a long way toward righteousness.  I have happily preached and recommended technically unlawful behavior in the pursuit of what is right.  I will not change.

Yep, he's an attorney.  ???

[Chrisj CMA]

Why did I shoot him 6 times..........theres only two acceptable answers I can think of:

1. the seventh and eigth time just went click click

2. I didnt have time to reload.

Right after you state I was and continued to be in fear of my life.

[Michael K (Az.)]

"I also have a couple of very small North American Arms, 1 in 22LR and 1 in 22 Mag, no problem to carry like pocket change."

Mr Blaster. I too have a "Pocket change" wheel gun which moments ago, returned from the store both of us riding on the scoot making this aahh, VALK RELATED!

[fudgie]

Mag disconnect safeties are principally suited for law enforcement uniformed carry, not for civilian carry.

Also, there are those who argue that modifying a pistol in any way, arguably making it less safe, like by removing the mag disconnect, can be used against you by the state prosecutor in your trial for manslaughter or aggravated assault, or in the civil suit against you for wrongful death or injuries.... on the theory that only a crazed maniac would alter his gun to make it less safe.  

Actually a lot of agencies that ordered Smith semi autos had the magazine safety deleted at the factory.

That being said, I HIGHLY recommend that you do not disable any safety devices on any firearm you use for self defense.  There are documented cases of Prosecutors bringing to trial individuals that had done that and used the firearm for self defense.  Then you have unscrupulous attorneys that represent the person or person's family that you shot.  It will be brought up that you modified a firearm and eliminated one of its safety devices.  They will insinuate that you in fact made the weapon less safe and only someone with a willful disregard for other persons safety would do that.  In a civil trial guilty beyond a reasonable doubt is not required.  A preponderance of evidence is all that is required to find you liable.  Don't set yourself up for this.  Leave self defense firearms alone internally.  If you want to change sights or grips, go for it.  Those are external changes and do not alter the internal mechanism.  If you don't like the magazine safety, trade the weapon in on another one without the feature.

Marty

I dont know. I would rather have it modified to shoot confidently then to have to pull it to defend myself and have it misfire. I would be alive to face the charges. Besides, I'd probaly get it back before trial and replace the missing part!

[Jess from VA]

I would rather have it modified to shoot confidently then to have to pull it to defend myself and have it misfire. I would be alive to face the charges.

The problem you had with the pistol failing to fire unless you pushed up on the magazine was almost certainly the mag disconnect parts malfunctioning.  On the Bersa, it is likely that those parts actually interfere with proper operation and function of the weapon, and are as likely to cause a stoppage at some point as a faulty magazine.  Take them off (save them), go to the range and shoot the pistol to check for function.  Fire it sideways bothways (gangster); i.e. it try to make it malfunction, short of abuse.  The trigger should be noticeably better.  If it works consistently, you are done.

Besides, I'd probably get it back before trial and replace the missing part!

Wrong kemosabe!!  If used in a shooting you will most assuredly not get it back until any grand jury review and state prosecution (if any) was completed (and also any appeals).  You know nothing about a magazine disconnect, and don't put it back on later after so testifying (at that point, pitch the parts in the river).   A good story is..... 'the gun was malfunctioning (failing to fire) at the range and some guy fixed it for you and it has been perfect ever since, and that's all you know.'

In any event, if you act responsibly, this will almost certainly never be an issue.

[FryeVRCCDS0067]

Now I get to tell my .32ACP story!!!! and why it SUCKS.  

Sorry, I didnt mean to piss ya off or anything with that comment Jess.  

At any rate, my cousin carried at the time a .32ACP Just like you mentioned.  In his pocket (use a holster plz).  He ask if he could take his dog and go walking on my farm looking for a good place for his deer stand.  It turns out that a wounded 8 point buck was laying where he and his dog were going.  Long story short, it attacked his dog.  My cousin, realizing that he was armed, drew his .32 and fired the whole 10 round clip into the lung area of the deer.  He was trying to stay away from the head because of the dog.  The deer didnt slow down one bit.  He had another clip in his pocket and he ended up firing 6 more shots into the deer, but this time in the neck area.  It finally broke contact with the dog, stumbled off into the brush, and died.  When we skinned it out later that morning, we found and examined all of the lung shots he had attempted.  NONE went past a rib.  All entered, opened up nicely and stopped short of passing the ribs.  Now the take away for me was that had I shot a man in the chest, I might hurt him, but it would not likely be fatal given that a man has clothes, muscle and fat to pass through then the ribs, to get to the good stuff.  

Now, I dont want to stand in front of the business end of your .32.  However, if I had to stand in front of it or say a 9mm.  I would choose the .32 and feel like I had a decent chance of survival.  

Thankfully I've got no experience with bullet performance on humans but I've taken somewhere over 30 deer and I can tell you, "deer are tough". Even the .45ACP is not a legal deer caliber here in Indiana because it's considered too weak to get clean kills with. In my experience the .357 is a bare minimum handgun caliber for deer hunting. That being said I have seen a small doe hit by a car and quickly dispatched with a close range head shot from a 38.

I agree with you completely concerning the survivability of the .32acp and I would add the .25acp verses most any other caliber including the .22 rimfires. With those small/slow calibers in a self defense situation I would shoot for the face in an up-close attack, not the chest because of the lack of penetration.

[RP#62]

Gun?  What's a gun?

Seriously, with few exceptions only the criminals and the cops have guns up here in Canada.  If Cleveland, Ohio decided they wanted Canada it would be real easy for them. (ok, not so serious there)

There was a movie about that.  I think it was Buffalo though.
-RP

[Smitty W.S.]

There was a movie about that.  I think it was Buffalo though.
-RP

Right you are, young man!  It was called Canadian Bacon starring the late-great-Canadian comedian John Candy.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0109370/

[X Ring]

Nonetheless, I would make any change to my firearm I felt made it better suited to it's purpose, especially including deleting mag disconnect safeties.  I did it on my Hi Powers mainly for the significantly improved trigger pull, moreso than the actual mag disconnect function delete.

Additionally, I would never admit to removing the mag disconnect; whether the gun was purchased new or not......"I don't know what you are talking about" would be my answer.... in or out of court.  Let them prove you deleted it..... if they can, and that its removal somehow caused the damage or injury.    Remove the thing, and don't ever talk about it thereafter.

Like on a searchable public forum? 

 

Marty

[X Ring]

Why did I shoot him 6 times..........theres only two acceptable answers I can think of:

1. the seventh and eigth time just went click click

2. I didnt have time to reload.

Right after you state I was and continued to be in fear of my life.

The correct answer is: "I was in fear for my life and kept shooting until he stopped attacking me." 

Marty

[X Ring]

I dont know. I would rather have it modified to shoot confidently then to have to pull it to defend myself and have it misfire. I would be alive to face the charges. Besides, I'd probaly get it back before trial and replace the missing part!

Actually, after you have used it in a self defense shooting, your firearm would be seized as evidence until after the investigation is over with and Grand Jury hearing is over with.  Then if you haven't been indicted you may get the firearm back but more likely you will have to get an attorney to get a court order to make the police release it.  If you are indicted you would probably never seen the weapon again until trial. 

Seriously Fudge, if you don't like the mag safety on that weapon, get another one.

Marty

[dipstick]

As an avid competition shooter and CCW holder I will give you this advice. If yer gonna carry alot and shoot little buy a revolver such as listed above. The Ruger LCR or S&W's new 5 shot part polymer  38's with a laser sight are awesome.

[PAVALKER]

A few smaller guns that are easily carried would be KelTec P38T (.380) and it would fit in any one of your pockets.  I carry one in my opposite wallet pocket.  Another smaller, but somewhat larger caliber, is the KelTec PF9.... which, depending on your pant/pocket size, might also fit in one of those pants pockets.   If you are looking for something larger, with more capacity or punch, then a holstered sidearm is what you are looking for...    Picking out a CCW is like picking out a pair of good slacks, a dress shirt or even boots.... you want them to fit nicely and be comfortable, yet always be readily available.   Good luck.....

[¿spoom]

The Bersa Thunder .380 is a very good semi for the price. I replaced mine with a .380 Ruger LCP only because the LCP is smaller-

You can really see the difference compared to my ,45 S&W 4516-1

The top pic is with a Crimson Trace laser point, absolutely unbeatable at night & low light situations. I agree with the "bigger is better", but for me the one I have on me is waaaay bigger than the one left behind because it isn't concealable. Federal and Hornady make some very good defense loads in .380 as well as other calibers.

[BF]

Dear Eric Holder and Barack Obama. 

I don't own any guns.....that you know of.  That's my story and I'm stickin' to it.   

[Tundra]

The Bersa Thunder .380 is a very good semi for the price. I replaced mine with a .380 Ruger LCP only because the LCP is smaller-

You can really see the difference compared to my ,45 S&W 4516-1

The top pic is with a Crimson Trace laser point, absolutely unbeatable at night & low light situations. I agree with the "bigger is better", but for me the one I have on me is waaaay bigger than the one left behind because it isn't concealable. Federal and Hornady make some very good defense loads in .380 as well as other calibers.

Spoom, I'm glad you posted that. I've been looking at .380's for exactly that reason. Carrying a Combat Commander with a full magazine in Florida is difficult to conceal with Florida dress, and gets heavy without the proper belt/rig.
  I've been looking at the Sig, Taurus, Ruger, Walther. The Ruger is small and snag-free. I have never fired it, but was told that the trigger pull is tough and it's not a real good shooter. This was from a dealer? I have only heard and read good comments about this gun. Any comments from your personal experience? TIA

[¿spoom]

I'm really surprised to hear that review. I found exactly the opposite, & if I thought it was badly done I sure wouldn't recommend it. The action on mine is smooth as can be, not as long a pull as the Bersa and very good feel for when it's going to let off. I have small hands, so if the dealer has gorilla's it may be a different story entirely. My only complaint is that the barrel's feed ramp is badly finished-there are obvious rough grind horizontal lines that scream for a polish job. (I'll do that eventually)  Though it fired all 25 rds. in the box without a jam, hand cycling the first round from a full magazine would often jam with the Federal "Personal Defense" 90 gr. hydro shok JHP. They are a truncated shape with a very sharp edge on the jacket at the nose, and would catch on the feed ramp. The similar Hornady "Critical Defense" 90gr. FTX JHP never did that, no matter how slow I tried easing the slide forward just to test it. Any round FMJ & JHP round nose have been flawless also, even some inexpensive Hugarian stuff I came across in 95gr FMJ.
The target below was 25ft rapid fire. The .45 is DA first shot (pulled to the left   ) and SA after, the Ruger is DA only, of course.

[Tundra]

That's what I was hoping to hear, I was leaning towards this gun for several reasons. This guys comments disturbed me but then again, just his opinion. I appreciate your input,
Thank you 

[¿spoom]

That's what I was hoping to hear, I was leaning towards this gun for several reasons. This guys comments disturbed me but then again, just his opinion. I appreciate your input,
Thank you  

My pleasure. BTW, the .45 I used on that target was a friend's compact Sig Sauer 220, not my S&W. First time I'd fired the Sig, so it's not the gun's fault I was all over with it. The Sig feels good in my hands and it's fairly small, but I'll stick to the Smith for the bigger stuff. Too big & heavy to conceal but a real comfort as a truck gun. Just wish CT made a laser site for it. You might want to check around and see if there are any ranges in your area that rent handguns for the range use. Great way to try a bunch of different ones before you buy.

[Tundra]

 

[MP]

I have the Ruger, like it a lot.  NONE of these small, very short barrel guns are great shooters.  They are meant for close in work.

I also have a .38 Police Special I bought used.  Very nice gun. 

MP

[Spirited-6]

I also have the LCP. Have never fired because ?????.  Guess I need to get to the "range" if I`m going to carry. I don`t want to shoot myself in the foot. 

[Garland]

I picked up a Kahr P380 a couple months ago, I like it a lot. About the same size as the LCP, but great sights and very well made. I have been carrying it daily, trying out a few different pocket holsters. .380 ammo is suddenly plentiful for a change, around here at least.

[¿spoom]

I picked up a Kahr P380 a couple months ago, I like it a lot. About the same size as the LCP, but great sights and very well made. I have been carrying it daily, trying out a few different pocket holsters. .380 ammo is suddenly plentiful for a change, around here at least.

Good choice, I shot one before getting the LCP. The Kahr wouldn't work for me as well as the LCP because of it's more squared-off back and protruding rear sights. It grabbed every time on a front pocket carry from a soft holster. On these types of guns I wouldn't care if they had no sights, 'cause if the adversary is 50 feet away I'm makin' like an Olympic sprinter. Most street yahoos can't hit a small car at that range, so If I'm far enough to need sights I'm gonna toss off a round and split.  I have found the laser sight is unbelievable at night, it's almost unfair how fast you can aquire a target and put a round on it in the darkest of night.

[dipstick]

I picked up a Kahr P380 a couple months ago, I like it a lot. About the same size as the LCP, but great sights and very well made. I have been carrying it daily, trying out a few different pocket holsters. .380 ammo is suddenly plentiful for a change, around here at least.

Kahr Arms makes about the best compact pistols on the market, I'd like to try out their .380.

[Hollywood]

Amen! My old man has a yugoslavian assault  rifle with a hand grip! me personally, if i carried one, it would be a sawed off shot gun,but kinda hard to carry on the valk!

[RTaz]

   I like my Ruger lcp .380..I can carry it in my front pocket very easy...



I also carry my Walther ppk .380  heavier gun but very accurate...



when you need some meat with the potato's I carry my Taurus Tracker .357



now Devl she loves her little Beretta bobcat .22lr...and she can shoot it well too....



I think an important thing to remember is I don't care what size gun you shoot you need to hit what your shooting at...Devl said she would rather put 8 shots in her target with the .22lr hollow point then miss 7 times with a .44mag...I think she has a valid point...

[Tundra]

Garland, That's one I forgot to consider. I pulled up their web-site and did some research, I must say very impressive. One more for me to look, touch, feel tomorrow at my local gun shop.
http://www.kahr.com/PA-1_380_p.html
Read some of the reviews, this gun seams to "walk on water"

[Tundra]

I went to several gunshops today and wound up coming home with the Ruger .380. It's  half the price of the Khar. Really, who needs a match grade barrel in a pocket gun? Won't be doing any competion shooting with this. Just a good, proven, concealable carry weapon. Made by a reputable company.
  My "Big guns" can stay on the nightstand, or in my truck. Now I can carry everywhere, the more I handle it, the more I like it.

[¿spoom]

I went to several gunshops today and wound up coming home with the Ruger .380. It's  half the price of the Khar. Really, who needs a match grade barrel in a pocket gun? Won't be doing any competion shooting with this. Just a good, proven, concealable carry weapon. Made by a reputable company.
  My "Big guns" can stay on the nightstand, or in my truck. Now I can carry everywhere, the more I handle it, the more I like it.

I highly recommend;
http://www.crimsontracelaser.com/ruger-crimson-trace-laserguard-lg-431-ruger-lcp-polymer-pistol-p-84.html

[Garland]

I went to several gunshops today and wound up coming home with the Ruger .380. It's  half the price of the Khar. Really, who needs a match grade barrel in a pocket gun? Won't be doing any competion shooting with this. Just a good, proven, concealable carry weapon. Made by a reputable company.
  My "Big guns" can stay on the nightstand, or in my truck. Now I can carry everywhere, the more I handle it, the more I like it.

The Ruger LCP forum has a wealth of info on ammo comparisons and the like:
http://www.elsiepeaforum.com/
Enjoy your new little buddy!

[deckerjr]

  My "Big guns" can stay on the nightstand, or in my truck. Now I can carry everywhere, the more I handle it, the more I like it.

Most of my "big guns" can stay at home, but my .45 will still be on my hip in open carry states. The P3at is my CCW backup.