wheel bearings

[lucky]

replaced front wheel brgs. when i tighten axle bolt to torque spec. wheel tightens, doesn't turn free. any ideas, everything looks good to me.

[Valker]

Did you follow the tightening procedure? Leave axle slightly loose, snug the pinch bolts SLIGHTLY. Lower bike, hold front brake, pump the suspension several times by rocking bike with front brake held. Tighten pinch bolts, tighten axle.
Someone else please correct me if I'm wrong on any of that.

[Tx Bohemian]

Did you follow the tightening procedure? Leave axle slightly loose, snug the pinch bolts SLIGHTLY. Lower bike, hold front brake, pump the suspension several times by rocking bike with front brake held. Tighten pinch bolts, tighten axle.
Someone else please correct me if I'm wrong on any of that.

Yeah, this is weird.  I think it says to tighten the left pinch bolts and right axle nut then bounce the front end then tighten the right pinch bolts.  Personally I don't see what's supposed to move/seat!

But watch it, you didn't say what year, how many miles, or why your changing the bearings... some here get freaked out if you don't mention those things!!  Not that it matters cause the procedure is all the same for all years and models, but that happened to me.

But I digress:

When I changed mine a few weeks ago I seated the right bearing and didn't have the tool the manual says to use and when I seated the left side it pushed the right out some (moved the wheel to the left) so when I installed the wheel the rivets on the left side were hitting the caliper. I ended up pulling the wheel again and re-seating the right side and that lined up the wheel properly.

I take it the tool properly sets the left bearing in the wheel.

Not saying I'm an expert but this is what happened to me.

[wild6]

Make sure the bearings are both seated fully in the wheel so the space between them matches the length of the spacer between the inner races (You did remember to put the spacer back in, didn't you? ).  If they're not all the way in, when tightened, the inner races will be pulled toward each other and bind-up the bearings, possibly damaging them.  The spacer, if not positioned squarely, may prevent the seating of the bearings or push one side out when seating the other.

-Dan

[Ricky-D]

Tightening the front end, using the instructions, a big help is understanding why do it that way.

The reason is to keep the shocks parallel, so they neither diverge nor converge which in either case will put unnatural forces on the shock parts and cause premature wear on the seals and wear parts.

Leaky shocks will result!

***

[lucky]

anyone, the spacer buts against the bearing, or does it float  when i took the wheel back off, it was not tight against the bearings, but they seem seated. its a 97 standard

[MP]

Should be snug against the inner race.

MP

[alph]

Tightening the front end, using the instructions, a big help is understanding why do it that way.

The reason is to keep the shocks parallel, so they neither diverge nor converge which in either case will put unnatural forces on the shock parts and cause premature wear on the seals and wear parts.

Leaky shocks will result!

***

exactly what i was going to say.

[Chrisj CMA]

sounds like the classic mistake of NOT having hte axle in all the way....result will be left caliper rubbing on the left side rotor. 

Jack up the front again....loosen right pinch bolts

Loosen axel nut

Loosen left pinch bolts

CHECK/INSURE AXLE IS ALL THE WAY IN

tighten left pich bolts (make sure youres isint one that the lower fork will move away from the head of the axle by itself before you can tighten it.  If there is any question.......torque the axle before the left pinch bolts (you will have to steady the axle with a large hex head since no pinch bolts will be doing it for you)

[lucky]

i'll try with pinch bolts loose, rotor wasn't hitting. i still have play in the spacer, it doesn't touch both bearings.  what's the difference between 97 and later bearings?

[Ricky-D]

You can take the sparkplug wrench that comes in the bike tool kit and use it in the axle end. Put a box wrench on the big end.

Two wrenches are necessary to tighten the axle properly.

Depending on the pinch bolt for holding power however working, is faulty and poor mechanics. Why do you think Honda has that hex in the axle. For looks????

Tighten the axle first and completely. There is no substitute for proper procedure.

***

[Chrisj CMA]

You can take the sparkplug wrench that comes in the bike tool kit and use it in the axle end. Put a box wrench on the big end.

Two wrenches are necessary to tighten the axle properly.

Depending on the pinch bolt for holding power however working, is faulty and poor mechanics. Why do you think Honda has that hex in the axle. For looks????

Tighten the axle first and completely. There is no substitute for proper procedure.

***

So I hear you saying that following the Honda Manual......p 13-14.......install axle, tighten left pinch bolts and then torque the axle bolt.....pump the forks to seat the axle and then tighten the right side pinch bolts is "poor mechanics".

It says nothing about using two wrenches one on the bolt and one on the axle head............I mean, you can do that, but with the pinch bolts torqued, it is rather uneccessay since two pinch bolts torqued to 16ftlbs is NOT going to slip........of course its not going to hurt anything to get all them extra wrenches out if thats what floats your boat, but its hardly fair to call someone that doesnt do it a poor mechanic

[lucky]

i followed the manuals instructions to the letter. when the bearings are seated in the wheel, the spacer is loose, not tight against the races. i know the bearings for a 97 are different, and the distance collar is different than later models. could i have a wheel from a newer model than a 97? the collar is 97mm for 1997, and 119 mm for other years. i don't know if wheels are same for all years.

[Chrisj CMA]

OK three things:

1. The only difference on the '97 bearings is the outter diameter......inner race and thickness same as all other years.

2. Im pretty sure all the spacers are the same for all years

3. If you mean the internal spacer is not tight against the bearings.......its normal for the spacer to be able to move.  I remember having to center the spacer to be able to feel the bearings, its easy to have the spacer fall down and bind against the bearing when the wheel is dismounted.


If you have the axle all the way in the left fork and the axle nut torqued...there is no further adjustment, the wheel will be centered and the bearings and spacers will all be metal to metal.  Unless of course you have some "wrong parts"  like a VTX wheel or the wrong spacers somehow

[Tx Bohemian]

...when the bearings are seated in the wheel, the spacer is loose, not tight against the races.

...i don't know if wheels are same for all years.

Can't help on the wheels being the same for all year models.

But the fact that the spacer is loose does't sound right.  Have you tried to just back off on the axle bolt a bit to see if the wheel turns freely then?  If it does that would seem to be the problem.

My spacer between the bearings was a tad bit longer.  I bought my bike used  and the previous owner had the wheels removed and chromed so I'm not so sure it is the right one, wouldn't know why  they'd have changed it unless it was lost.

[lucky]

ChrisJCMA, spacer for 97 is different than other years. it is 94 mm long, other years is 119 mm. i don't think the spacer should float in there. does anyone know if the wheels are the same for all years.  if the spacer doesn't touch inner races of bearings it is useless in there. that would be its only purpose to preload the bearings.

[Tx Bohemian]

i don't think the spacer should float in there. does anyone know if the wheels are the same for all years.  if the spacer doesn't touch inner races of bearings it is useless in there. that would be its only purpose to preload the bearings.

I agree, the spacer should not float however I think the spacer is there so you don't have pre-load on your bearings. These type bearings do not need to be preloaded. 

That is why I suggested loosening up on the axle bolt and see if the wheel turns free then. Have you tried this?

I re-read your posts and you talk about the caliper being clear. I'm not trying to be a smarta$$ or insult your inteligence but are you sure the brake pads are not rubbing?  Just trying to start from scratch here.

[fudgie]

I think the spacer does 'float'. I know I can stick my finger in there and move the spacer. So its not all tight.

[2qmedic]

Posted by: Chrisj CMA 
Insert Quote
sounds like the classic mistake of NOT having hte axle in all the way....result will be left caliper rubbing on the left side rotor. 

When I have the front wheel off and then reinstall it, I have to use a dead blow mallet to seat the axle into the left side. If I don't, then my front wheel will bind up with the rivets on the brake disk.
In theroy, this shouldn't have to be done. In reality, it's what must be done.

Posted by: Ricky-D 
Insert Quote

Two wrenches are necessary to tighten the axle properly.

There is no need to have a wrench on the other side of the axle to torque it. In this application, the axle does not care if it is being held with a wrench or the pinch bolts.
If we look on some other bikes, they don't have the hex on the end of the axle, just a hole through it. So then how were they torqued with out the hex head on the axle???
It also allows a way to twist the axle to assist in removal or assembly. My Valk has to tightest axle that I have had on any bike I have owned. Any yes, I ensure a film of grease on it prior to installation.

Cheers

[lucky]

yes i have loosened the bolt and the wheel frees up like my interstate. i assembled the wheel as per manual, then removed the calipers again to spin wheel. at specified torque it is not locked, but too tight, new wheel bearings will not last this tight.as i loosen bolt wheel frees up. so its not touching rivets. i've had the wheel off my interstate a couple times, no problem.                          I'm gonna try the longer spacer and see if that helps. i bought this bike used so i don't know what is up. the spacer was gone when i took it apart.  thanks for the input.

[RonW]

There is no need to have a wrench on the other side of the axle to torque it. In this application, the axle does not care if it is being held with a wrench or the pinch bolts.

I tighten the axle bolt on the right fork to draw the axle's shoulder tight into the left fork. The left pinch bolts must be left untighten to do this in order to pull in the axle if only a smidgen. Obviously, the untightened pinch bolts aren't clasping the axle at this stage. I've found it necessary to use two wrenches to keep the axle from spinning.

*Question. Since in this sequence, the left pinch bolts are not tightened yet, is it better to leave the left pinch bolts also untightened, with the right pinch bolts, while you're setting the axle by pushing up and down on the forks? Manual specifies only leaving the right pinch bolts untightened for this step.

[2qmedic]

The deal here is that with tightening the axle to seat it in the left fork, it does not pull it far enough. Note here, this is with the left pinch bolts loose.
Believe me that I have tried this several ways.
In my case, I have to seat the axle with the dead blow hammer, tighten the pinch bolts, and then torque the axle.
Tighten the axle does not seat the axle on my bilke.
Charles

[RonW]

The deal here is that with tightening the axle to seat it in the left fork, it does not pull it far enough. Note here, this is with the left pinch bolts loose. Believe me that I have tried this several ways. In my case, I have to seat the axle with the dead blow hammer....

I'll keep that in mind.

Tighten the axle does not seat the axle on my bilke.

Strictly for the sake of clarity, the manual means something different by the term, "seating the axle." "Seating the axle," per manual, is when you bounce the forks up and down with the right fork pinch bolts loose.

[Ricky-D]

The deal here is that with tightening the axle to seat it in the left fork, it does not pull it far enough. Note here, this is with the left pinch bolts loose.
Believe me that I have tried this several ways.
In my case, I have to seat the axle with the dead blow hammer, tighten the pinch bolts, and then torque the axle.
Tighten the axle does not seat the axle on my bilke.
Charles

Under these circumstances I would say you have a more deep seated problem. The axle should slide in fairly easy with the pinch bolts loose. I suggest inspecting the aperture wherein the axle slides and also the axle itself for problems that are causing the binding. There could be possible foreign material within the pocket, limiting travel. Of course the pinch bolts should both be absolutely loose if not removed. Anti-seize should be used on the bolts regardless.

It is the right side shock lower to which the axle tightens.

***

[2qmedic]

Yep, know that and have checked that. It's just a really sung fit. 
I should have been a little more specific with the term "seated".
To clarify my term seated in the previous statement, meaning to have the axle installed completely into the left side. I have to give it a little bit of encouragement to get "seated" prior to tightening the pinch bolts or axle nut. Seating by bouncing the front end is another step.

Like I mentioned about being a really snug fit, the machining is just tight on the left side only, not the wheel/bearings, not the right fork, but just the left fork. It does not matter if the pinch bolts are in or not.

Yes I know where and how to torque the axle nut,
yes I have several size torque wrenches,
yes, I even know how to calculate the torque for using an extention on the torque wrench (yes you can do that, but don't need it here).
there is no deep seated problem here, it just tighter than normal.
Ya'll have a nice day, ya hear.

[Chrisj CMA]

yes i have loosened the bolt and the wheel frees up like my interstate. i assembled the wheel as per manual, then removed the calipers again to spin wheel. at specified torque it is not locked, but too tight, new wheel bearings will not last this tight.as i loosen bolt wheel frees up. so its not touching rivets. i've had the wheel off my interstate a couple times, no problem.                          I'm gonna try the longer spacer and see if that helps. i bought this bike used so i don't know what is up. the spacer was gone when i took it apart.  thanks for the input.

If you were trying to mount a wheel with NO SPACER inbetween the right and left side bearings to keep everyting lined up then, most likely that is your problem.

[lucky]

Chris, its like having no spacer, there is that much clearance. Dealer was wrong, both spacers measure the same although different part nos. wheel has to be for a 97, newer brgs. are bigger outside diameter as you told me. i,m gonna make a new spacer and see how that works. bearings are definitely seated. such a simple job is turning out to be a pain. i can flat rate taking the wheel off now.