Oil Time Limit

[JetDriver]

Almost every vehicle maintenance schedule says to change the oil at x-miles or 6 months, whichever comes first.  Not usually a problem with the Valk, but what happens to the oil just sitting in the crankcase?  And, is synthetic different?

[98valk]

acids build up and the oil degrades unless the oil has a high TBN #.  I have amsoil 10w30/30 HD diesel oil in the bike for over 2 yrs now with about 5k miles on it. oil analysis at 4k miles showed nothing wrong and oil was good for continued use.
www.bobistheoilguy.com  plenty of info.

[x]

I think both the 3,000 miles and six months 'recommendations' are bull hockey, especially for synthetics.
 
Having said that, you need to be conscious of your riding conditions.  For example, it's hard for me to put more that 12,000 miles on my bike in a year... but it is almost all urban riding... short runs, dust, ridden everyday... at the end of six months, my oil is loaded with particulate matter.
 
If you are out on the road, clean air, good runs, then the bike sits up, big difference.  No particulate matter.  Acids and other nasties fully burned out of the oil before you stop next go round.  No reason you could not go an entire year without a change.
 
Not only does it say you money, it is environmentally sound to prolong oil changes... and there is plenty of evidence that oil manufacturer's recommendations are more about the bottom line, and not about the bottom of your crankcase.

[MP]

It depends.  If you change in the fall, and do not ride over the winter, you sure do NOT need to change again in the spring!  However, if you put 2,000 miles on during the summer, I would sure change in the fall.  Do not let the old oil with the acid, etc sit over winter in the engine.

MP

[JetDriver]

Anybody willing to second SE's position?  The problem (problem?  It's just an oil change....) is more with my Miata than the Valk.  The car falls halfway between SE's two scenarios, and I almost always bump up against the 6 months before the mileage.  The Valk definitely fits SE's second scenario: clean air, long runs, etc.  If I'm on the Valk, I'm almost always in the country for at least 40-50 mile runs, if not on a multiple day trip.

Here's one I've wrestled with.  I change the oil in the Valk (or the car- they both fit this situation) in the fall.  We get enough breaks in the weather in central Ohio that I look for the opportunity to take the bike out at least once per month, if for no other reason than to just run it.  So, fresh oil in the fall, then 40 miles each month for 4 months (each 40 miles is done in one shot- out and back, then stand in front of the fireplace until warm  )- total of 160 miles, then comes spring.  How many backers for SE?  Does running in the country for 40 miles take care of the acids?  Or do I just change it again in the spring?

What do the acids do, anyway?  Do they eat away at the metal parts, and, if so, how long does it take to do discernible damage?

[PAVALKER]

Anybody willing to second SE's position?  The problem (problem?  It's just an oil change....) is more with my Miata than the Valk.  The car falls halfway between SE's two scenarios, and I almost always bump up against the 6 months before the mileage.  The Valk definitely fits SE's second scenario: clean air, long runs, etc.  If I'm on the Valk, I'm almost always in the country for at least 40-50 mile runs, if not on a multiple day trip.

Here's one I've wrestled with.  I change the oil in the Valk (or the car- they both fit this situation) in the fall.  We get enough breaks in the weather in central Ohio that I look for the opportunity to take the bike out at least once per month, if for no other reason than to just run it.  So, fresh oil in the fall, then 40 miles each month for 4 months (each 40 miles is done in one shot- out and back, then stand in front of the fireplace until warm  )- total of 160 miles, then comes spring.  How many backers for SE?  Does running in the country for 40 miles take care of the acids?  Or do I just change it again in the spring?

What do the acids do, anyway?  Do they eat away at the metal parts, and, if so, how long does it take to do discernible damage?

I change my bike and car oils... once a year, in the fall (I usually don't use the car in the winter much either with the PA salt... since I have a 4WD truck as well).  I use synthetic in both.  Like you, I might get out once or twice a month and maybe not even for that many miles mind you... just to get out (freeze my arse off, get the ride out of my system for a little while and get back to get warm).  I assume that I get it up to a decent operating temp to burn off moisture/condensation etc.... at least I try to withstand the temps long enough and if it's too damn cold... I don't go for personal comfort reasons.  I think that has been more than sufficient to maintain a healthy engine and keep the evil acids from doing anything (have not experienced any issues in the many years I have been doing this).

In my truck I change it twice a year,  well... I take it in to local Midas and have them change the oil and rotate tires all for 19.99 (worth it).  If I happen to notice the miles getting up, or a dirty filthy oil stick between oil changes.... I will get it done again (but that doesn't happen all too often).

[FLATSIX]

I have only 17.000 miles in 13 years = 1300 miles/year and the last years I do even much less.

Each 2 to 3 years I changed oil (synthetic) and when spring came then I did the change - ext spring I had planned to do an oil-change.

Now I read here that it is best to do the change now, before winter ??? AM I RIGHT OR DO I CHANGE THIS SPRING?

[Ricky-D]

Acids will not form in a still motor. The acids form from a combination of the motor running and combustion gasses in the crankcase.

Oil changes are a personal matter and are dependent upon many factors, mileage notwithstanding.

Seasonal oil changes are myth related and as I said only based on personal preferences.

Anyone that needs to look in the encyclopedia for help in determining when to change the oil ought to stay on the bus and/or use a cab.  Try walking if you're still able!!!

***

[sugerbear]

i get 4-6,000 miles per year. change the oil in the fall just before putting the bike away for the winter.

if i get a good day during the winter i'll go for a short ride.

i use mobil 1 15-50. so far so good.

it also sit out in the cold all winter.

[Chrisj CMA]

I know a few riders that only do a few thousand miles a year and change the oil once a year......and right before putting her up for winter is a good time.  Modern oil Dino or synthetic should have no problem staying good for a year in your motor. 

I seem to hit 5-6K every couple months so I just go by mileage try to get it done at the 5K mark but if its 6K oh well not so bad since the book says 8k is the time

Using Mobile 1 now since Castrol syntec is hard to find in the 10-40W around here

[Ricky-D]

I don't use Mobil-1 myself.

Mobil-1 Synthetic has been the highest rated oil for some time.

I don't like full synthetic, I like a blended oil.

Still, Mobil-1 Synthetic is the highest rated.

***

[JetDriver]

Anyone that needs to look in the encyclopedia for help in determining when to change the oil ought to stay on the bus and/or use a cab.  Try walking if you're still able!!!

***

Ricky-D ~  I know I'm anal retentive and tend to over-analyze anything I get my hands on.  I have to admit though, it seems to have served me ok in my career choice.  I don't get all worried about it as far as the practical, day-to-day aspects of riding.  I know most any engine manufactured today (or 20 years ago, for that matter) is going to run pretty reliably no matter how you treat it.  In the instances where they don't, it's usually the manufacturers' fault.  After your comment about the encyclopedia, I was amused by your later post about the type of oil you use.  It seems to me, if you change the oil, the engine doesn't break for oil related problems- buy Wal-Mart!!!    (No, I don't buy Wal-Mart oil!)  I'm not attacking- like I said, I know I over analyze.  Your posts are in my top tier of posts I really pay attention to, and I watch for what you have to say on matters.  Having said that, I guess I'll take your advise and put the encyclopedia away and just change the oil when it looks dirty.  Understanding and learning why we do things the way we do is over-rated anyway.  By-the-way, how did you get to the point where you understand so much?       (That last statement is NOT derogatory.  There might be some sarcasm in it  , but I DO respect your understanding of the Valk and things related to it.  MAN, I HATE having to explain emotions in textual topics....

[98valk]

"and just change the oil when it looks dirty. "

has nothing to do with the condition of the oil and how it is protecting the engine. only oil analysis can tell u anything.  if u really want to educate yourself checkout www.bobistheoilguy.com, more than u ever wanted to know about oil. And wal-mart oil has been proven through OA to be a very good oil.
your best bet with no worries just use any diesel oil in grades 15w40, 5w40 or 10w30 and change at honda's 8k mile recomended change with a pure 1 filter.
good luck.

[Ricky-D]

What's the number on that Pure-1 Filter?

***

[98valk]

What's the number on that Pure-1 Filter?

***

I use an oversized filter, PureOne PL14459.
ST3539A is the same size.

[valkmc]

Anyone that needs to look in the encyclopedia for help in determining when to change the oil ought to stay on the bus and/or use a cab.  Try walking if you're still able!!!

***

Ricky-D ~  I know I'm anal retentive and tend to over-analyze anything I get my hands on.  I have to admit though, it seems to have served me ok in my career choice.  I don't get all worried about it as far as the practical, day-to-day aspects of riding.  I know most any engine manufactured today (or 20 years ago, for that matter) is going to run pretty reliably no matter how you treat it.  In the instances where they don't, it's usually the manufacturers' fault.  After your comment about the encyclopedia, I was amused by your later post about the type of oil you use.  It seems to me, if you change the oil, the engine doesn't break for oil related problems- buy Wal-Mart!!!    (No, I don't buy Wal-Mart oil!)  I'm not attacking- like I said, I know I over analyze.  Your posts are in my top tier of posts I really pay attention to, and I watch for what you have to say on matters.  Having said that, I guess I'll take your advise and put the encyclopedia away and just change the oil when it looks dirty.  Understanding and learning why we do things the way we do is over-rated anyway.  By-the-way, how did you get to the point where you understand so much?       (That last statement is NOT derogatory.  There might be some sarcasm in it  , but I DO respect your understanding of the Valk and things related to it.  MAN, I HATE having to explain emotions in textual topics....

You don't have to explain anything to him, he does this a lot, he seems to believe he is the expert on posting, and bearings (you know the ones that last for ever). If you have a concern and want to ask a question there are good people here that will answer it. You don't need to read the post you don't want to. When I see his name I just skip over it and read the next post.

[JetDriver]

Thanks, Valk, I appreciate that.  My oil questions weren't so much a concern as a curiosity.  And CA, I've been reading the oil website.  Pretty interesting, although not too much on how serious acid is to the engine yet.  I've never heard of an engine failing because of acid damage.  What I was after was practical, real-life, what has happened to you, type stuff-  that doesn't come from encyclopedias!    Anyway, I appreciate both of your comments and the link.

[98valk]

Thanks, Valk, I appreciate that.  My oil questions weren't so much a concern as a curiosity.  And CA, I've been reading the oil website.  Pretty interesting, although not too much on how serious acid is to the engine yet.  I've never heard of an engine failing because of acid damage.  What I was after was practical, real-life, what has happened to you, type stuff-  that doesn't come from encyclopedias!    Anyway, I appreciate both of your comments and the link.

acid attacks the bearings and rings.
http://www.oil-lab.com/downloads/TBN-1.pdf

http://www.dexsil.com/uploads/docs/dtr_1003.pdf
Failure to control acid levels will lead to excessive engine deposits and, more
importantly, corrosive attack of engine components such as cylinder liners, piston rings, and
bearings. Hence, TBN is frequently monitored in automotive and locomotive applications in
order to signal when the lubricant base level falls below a minimum level and the oil needs to
be changed.