Detroit's socialist nightmare is America's future?

[98valk]

see link for full article

http://www.thedailycrux.com/content/6156/Government_Stupidity/eml

"One of the most important things to remember about socialism – or coercion of any kind – is it fails eventually because human beings have an innate desire for liberty and a strong need for personal property rights. In fact, the origins of government lie in the need of agricultural communities to protect themselves from violence and theft. So it is particularly ironic that in more recent times, it is government itself that has more frequently played the role of bandit. When you start taxing people at extreme rates to pay for socialist "benefits," when you start telling them which schools their children must attend, when you start giving jobs away to people based on race instead of ability... you quash human freedom, which bogs down productivity... and if continued for long enough, leads to social collapse.

I find it perplexing that only 20 years after the collapse of the Berlin Wall, the West continues to implement laws that mimic all of the failed policies of our former "communist" foes. In fact, our current president won the election by promising to "spread the wealth around." But... truth be told... we don't have to look to Eastern Europe or the Soviet Union to find a society destroyed by coercion, socialism, and the overreaching power of the State. We could just look at Detroit... "

[x]

So... what is socialism?  Do you know?  Or just copy and paste?  Do you have an original thought?

[Hoosier Valk]

Would you trust Porter Stansberry, the author of the article?

http://www.sec.gov/litigation/complaints/comp18090.htm

[czuch]

In socialist paradise no one is entitled to individual thought.
Everyone must "cut and paste" for the collective good and further glorification of our esteemed and superior leaders.
tomorrow/2012/2013

[croaker]

Would you trust Porter Stansberry, the author of the article?

Of course, if it's on the internet it must be true! 

[Skinhead]

As a native Pittsburgher who moved to Mi in 1983, I can tell you there is something wrong with a local government that allows a once vibrant, prosperous town to wither and die as Detroit is doing.  Pittsburgh lost it's major industry in the '70's and 80's but is still a very prosperous town and great place to live.  Sure, some of the samll mill towns are hurting, but nothing like the fiasco going on in Detroit.  Every issue is about race according to the mayors of Detroit, Coleman Young and Quame Kilpatrick, Dennis Archer was the only one worth a damn and he couldn't get by the corruption.  The school board is the same way.  There are numerous investigations in progress right now.

Ok, maybe it wasn't socialism, I don't know.  But it was Pi$$ Poor management, a lack of integrity, corruption, and a population that wants the government to provide for them that was the city's downfall.

[croaker]

As a native Pittsburgher who moved to Mi in 1983, I can tell you there is something wrong with a local government that allows a once vibrant, prosperous town to wither and die as Detroit is doing.  Pittsburgh lost it's major industry in the '70's and 80's but is still a very prosperous town and great place to live.  Sure, some of the samll mill towns are hurting, but nothing like the fiasco going on in Detroit.  Every issue is about race according to the mayors of Detroit, Coleman Young and Quame Kilpatrick, Dennis Archer was the only one worth a damn and he couldn't get by the corruption.  The school board is the same way.  There are numerous investigations in progress right now.

Ok, maybe it wasn't socialism, I don't know.  But it was Pi$$ Poor management, a lack of integrity, corruption, and a population that wants the government to provide for them that was the city's downfall.

Sounds like a very reasonable assesment to me...

[BradValk48237]

+10000000 on the corruption....

Until Colman Young got in... This was a good city... After he left, there was NOTHING left!

The guy in office now keep turniug over rocks and keeps finding slime.....  If he can get most of the crooks in jail...LIke Kwame and his buddies, it might make things better.

I like Downtown and will keep spending my money there to keep it alive.....

Its the 4 mile combat zone that you have to go thru to get downtown that is the problem.

B

[BradValk48237]

As far as Detroit being Socialist.....  I don't agree...  It was Capitalism at its worst... That is a few greedy crooks TAKING what profit they could and then getting the hell out before they got caught...

Don't get me wrong... Firm believer in you should keep what you make. Individual effort is what made Detroit what was once called the "Paris" of the Midwest......

People like Ford, Fischer, Dodge, etc. are what made this city...

People out for a handout are what wrecked it.

B

[DIGGER]

+10000000 on the corruption....

Until Colman Young got in... This was a good city... After he left, there was NOTHING left!

The guy in office now keep turniug over rocks and keeps finding slime.....  If he can get most of the crooks in jail...LIke Kwame and his buddies, it might make things better.

I like Downtown and will keep spending my money there to keep it alive.....

Its the 4 mile combat zone that you have to go thru to get downtown that is the problem.



yeah,   I know what ya mean........I got a buddy lives there.....he's a tail gunner on a beer truck

B

[big turkey]

William Wallace fought for it.

George Washington led our Army too it.

Lincoln led our country to a Victory and held a Free Nation Together.

Reagan Over Saw millions set free after the Berlin Wall fell.



Ben Franklin said"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary

Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety"




Give away a Freedom and receive Slavery.



Socialism and Communism, take the power of the people and hand it to a few then one.

Ablsolute Power corrupts absolutely.

These despots are what we fought against to get the Freedoms we have today.

Any idiot can see freedom is the most important thing we have.

Free Market not Capitalism is the best part of our financial system.

Free Enterprise will put us back to work , not some great Social Experiment that are always

destined to fail.

VOTE THE BASTERDS OUT>

AL

[Alaskamike]

    you go Big Al!   We are at a crossroads the likes of which I have not seen in 60 years.  It is easy to throw around insults and anger, much harder to expain why freedom, democracy, and capatalism have made this country the greatest power for good in the world. 

We have been on a decline into Goverment control and restriction since FDR, Obama did not start it.  Republicans as well as Democrats have contributed ever since to Progressive thought and structure. 

However, it seems that This Administration, above all others, has come out in the open with the adgenda, and now many of us quiet conservatives have finally awakened and are not only speaking up - but voting.  All I can say is it's about time - myself included.   I have taken our country and it's freedoms for granted - well no more
I have failed to vote in mid-term elections - well no more

I have been silent when our freedoms were corrupted, when government was unjust and unfair, and when imoral and corrupt polititions have remained in power year after year - well no more

" I'm mad as Hell, and I'm not going to take it"  no more

[x]

^^^^^^^^^^

Did someone hand you a glass of Kool Aid?

[Hoser]

^^^^^^^^^^

Did someone hand you a glass of Kool Aid?

Yes! And it tastes good.  You should try it. Best with a shot of Vodka.  Hoser 

[Varmintmist]

^^^^^^^^^^

Did someone hand you a glass of Kool Aid?

Naa, on our side of the fence, we buy our own instead of waiting for a handout.

[PAVALKER]

So... what is socialism?  Do you know?  Or just copy and paste?  Do you have an original thought?

Obviously if you had opened your glossy eyes a little wider, read a little bit, you might have noticed that, yes it that was just a link and a quote (it appears to have quotation marks to indicate that).  Yet, like a few others... that reply just appeared to attack an individual's post that doesn't mirror your opinions/thoughts.  What is the purpose of that other than to piss people off?  Do you know or do you just do it because it makes you feel good?  

People need to lighten up and take these things with a grain of salt.... instead of trying to rub salt into someone else.....  JMO

[Robert]

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-08-11/u-s-is-bankrupt-and-we-don-t-even-know-commentary-by-laurence-kotlikoff.html
But delve deeper, and you will find that the IMF has effectively pronounced the U.S. bankrupt. Section 6 of the July 2010 Selected Issues Paper says: “The U.S. fiscal gap associated with today’s federal fiscal policy is huge for plausible discount rates.” It adds that “closing the fiscal gap requires a permanent annual fiscal adjustment equal to about 14 percent of U.S. GDP.”

The fiscal gap is the value today (the present value) of the difference between projected spending (including servicing official debt) and projected revenue in all future years.

Double Our Taxes

To put 14 percent of gross domestic product in perspective, current federal revenue totals 14.9 percent of GDP. So the IMF is saying that closing the U.S. fiscal gap, from the revenue side, requires, roughly speaking, an immediate and permanent doubling of our personal-income, corporate and federal taxes as well as the payroll levy set down in the Federal Insurance Contribution Act.

Herb Stein, chairman of the Council of Economic Advisers under U.S. President Richard Nixon, coined an oft-repeated phrase: “Something that can’t go on, will stop.” True enough. Uncle Sam’s Ponzi scheme will stop. But it will stop too late.

And it will stop in a very nasty manner. The first possibility is massive benefit cuts visited on the baby boomers in retirement. The second is astronomical tax increases that leave the young with little incentive to work and save. And the third is the government simply printing vast quantities of money to cover its bills.

Based on the CBO’s data, I calculate a fiscal gap of $202 trillion, which is more than 15 times the official debt. This gargantuan discrepancy between our “official” debt and our actual net indebtedness isn’t surprising. It reflects what economists call the labeling problem. Congress has been very careful over the years to label most of its liabilities “unofficial” to keep them off the books and far in the future.

http://www.cbo.gov/doc.cfm?index=11579
From the congressional budget office directly

Keeping deficits and debt from growing to unsustainable levels would require raising revenues as a percentage of GDP significantly above past levels, reducing outlays sharply relative to CBO's projections, or some combination of those approaches. Making such changes while economic activity and employment remain well below their potential levels would probably slow the economic recovery. However, the sooner that long-term changes to spending and revenues are agreed on, and the sooner they are carried out once the economic weakness ends, the smaller will be the damage to the economy from growing federal debt. Earlier action would require more sacrifices by earlier generations to benefit future generations, but it would also permit smaller or more gradual changes and would give people more time to adjust to them.

[Sludge]

good post Robert!

[x]

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-08-11/u-s-is-bankrupt-and-we-don-t-even-know-commentary-by-laurence-kotlikoff.html
But delve deeper, and you will find that the IMF has effectively pronounced the U.S. bankrupt. Section 6 of the July 2010 Selected Issues Paper says: “The U.S. fiscal gap associated with today’s federal fiscal policy is huge for plausible discount rates.” It adds that “closing the fiscal gap requires a permanent annual fiscal adjustment equal to about 14 percent of U.S. GDP.”

The fiscal gap is the value today (the present value) of the difference between projected spending (including servicing official debt) and projected revenue in all future years.

Double Our Taxes

To put 14 percent of gross domestic product in perspective, current federal revenue totals 14.9 percent of GDP. So the IMF is saying that closing the U.S. fiscal gap, from the revenue side, requires, roughly speaking, an immediate and permanent doubling of our personal-income, corporate and federal taxes as well as the payroll levy set down in the Federal Insurance Contribution Act.

Herb Stein, chairman of the Council of Economic Advisers under U.S. President Richard Nixon, coined an oft-repeated phrase: “Something that can’t go on, will stop.” True enough. Uncle Sam’s Ponzi scheme will stop. But it will stop too late.

And it will stop in a very nasty manner. The first possibility is massive benefit cuts visited on the baby boomers in retirement. The second is astronomical tax increases that leave the young with little incentive to work and save. And the third is the government simply printing vast quantities of money to cover its bills.

Based on the CBO’s data, I calculate a fiscal gap of $202 trillion, which is more than 15 times the official debt. This gargantuan discrepancy between our “official” debt and our actual net indebtedness isn’t surprising. It reflects what economists call the labeling problem. Congress has been very careful over the years to label most of its liabilities “unofficial” to keep them off the books and far in the future.

http://www.cbo.gov/doc.cfm?index=11579
From the congressional budget office directly

Keeping deficits and debt from growing to unsustainable levels would require raising revenues as a percentage of GDP significantly above past levels, reducing outlays sharply relative to CBO's projections, or some combination of those approaches. Making such changes while economic activity and employment remain well below their potential levels would probably slow the economic recovery. However, the sooner that long-term changes to spending and revenues are agreed on, and the sooner they are carried out once the economic weakness ends, the smaller will be the damage to the economy from growing federal debt. Earlier action would require more sacrifices by earlier generations to benefit future generations, but it would also permit smaller or more gradual changes and would give people more time to adjust to them.

Ya know what's bizarre, Robert?  So called "patriots" who fight each and every attempt to raise taxes to cure the deficit, who, in reality, care nothing for the country, but only their own pocket book.
 
The same people that bitch about the deficits are the same people that want to make Bush's tax cuts for the wealthy, permanent.
 
These are also the same people, that when asked to come up where spending needs to be cut, are CLUELESS.  Eliminate welfare, they say... wow... 3 percent of the budget.
 
But when it comes to the real cuts... a bunch of pussys... social security?  It's a third rail... just like all you gray haired boys on this forum know... don't f*ck with my SS.
 
Military?  Sounds good, until the special interests convince your Congress Critter that cutting a military program in your state is bad news.

I call those of you who bitch about this without providing a solution, hypocrites.  Too damn cheap to spend the money to get this country out of what ails it (but more than enough money to buy one more Chinese 52" TV), and too gutless to actually address the spending cuts that really need to be made... starting with the military budget.

Cheers.

[Hoser]

Oh oh, you said "bitch, f*ck, and damn"  sounds like your'e getting upset, chill out man,  it ain't worth high blood pressure.    Hoser

[Robert]

Eagle ,SS was already funded and paid for and the sobs robbed it at every turn. In contrary to what the law said so I think the first thing that should be done is put the ones who touched ss into prison first. If you or me stole what is basically a fiduciary account we would be in jail ss was supposed to be this.  I am not old enough to collect but I feel that this was started in good faith people paid in in trust and the government violated that trust. The more I read about it a flat tax is sounding better and better. Eliminate ethanol subsidies as well as subsidies for refinery's and put into law that if you want to peddle gas then you have to pay the cost of setting up refining. Look the list goes on and on and most Americans have paid taxes to the government in trust that it would be paid back in certain programs Not to be squandered on special interests. So if you are saying that most Americans or patriots are not willing to see their own programs cut I understand and agree. I want what I paid and pay for and I want politicians that have enough integrity to do what they say and stick to it and when they make a program dont steal from it. Get back the Federal Reserve. Then when we are in good standing supply hand outs to all that we can comfortably afford. But at this point  think this may all be pointless and you Eagle being in another country may be in a good position.

[Varmintmist]

Ya know what's bizarre, Robert?  So called "patriots" who fight each and every attempt to raise taxes to cure the deficit, who, in reality, care nothing for the country, but only their own pocket book.

I would rather have someone worry about their own wallet, than have to worry about how much they are going to take from mine
 
The same people that bitch about the deficits are the same people that want to make Bush's tax cuts for the wealthy, permanent.
 BS. You are squeaking bumper stickers again. You cannot prove the tax cuts went to the wealthy by the percentages. In fact, when the cuts are done away with, there will no longer be a 10% bracket, it will revert to 15% and all the lower income people who, after the EITC were paying zero, will now pay taxes. Grandma's farm is back on the chopping block now because the death tax will be back along with the marriage penality and child tax credits, not to mention capital gains. Yes, we peons pay capital gains, when you sell stock, when your 401K/company/Union pension plan sells stock, when you sell the apartment that you bought for your daughter, you pay.
Did the "rich" get more? Yep, and by percentage the lower incomes got more than them. The govt actually subsidizes lowere income people with "refunds" on money that they never paid in.
 
These are also the same people, that when asked to come up where spending needs to be cut, are CLUELESS.  Eliminate welfare, they say... wow... 3 percent of the budget.

3% that we shouldnt be spending is a good place to start. In your own life, the first thing to go should be the non essentials. You pack your lunch and don't go out to eat and if you do you dont buy the Filet and Lobster. The little things add up, "Watch the pennies and the pouinds will take care of themselves" is how a old dead white guy put it. Its how I bought a pretty good chunk of land, with cash and paid for 2 Valks and a Shadow with checks. I am not rich by any means, however I have had some union guys, whos combined family income was twice+ mine, call me that because thay dont have a pot to pee in. If you throw it away, dont expect it to be there. I don't own a Harley, a Perazzi, or a 35 foot 5th wheel trailer, but I have a lot of acres with gas and mineral rights and no large CC debt.
 
But when it comes to the real cuts... a bunch of pussys... social security?  It's a third rail... just like all you gray haired boys on this forum know... don't f*ck with my SS.
I agree. Everyone under 40, don't plan on it. Everyone between 40 and 55, you aint getting what your parents did, and everyone over 55, you will never see a COLA again. Phase it out. Or make it what it was supposed to be, a SUPPLEMENT. Instead of 900/month, expect 300 in 2020 dollars and plan your own future.
 
Military?  Sounds good, until the special interests convince your Congress Critter that cutting a military program in your state is bad news.
Military is a required function of the Govt. Cutting it ALWAYS leads to needing it, every time.

I call those of you who bitch about this without providing a solution, hypocrites.  Too damn cheap to spend the money to get this country out of what ails it (but more than enough money to buy one more Chinese 52" TV), and too gutless to actually address the spending cuts that really need to be made... starting with the military budget.
Throwing good money after bad is not a plan. The military actually performs a function that is mandated AND cannot be done on a state by state basis. However, Education, Health and Human services, energy, AG, NASA, EPA, Nat Science Foundation, Corporation for National and Community Service are all real good examples of stuff that is nice to have, but not essential for the Fed to be running.

[valkmc]

Eagle ,SS was already funded and paid for and the sobs robbed it at every turn. In contrary to what the law said so I think the first thing that should be done is put the ones who touched ss into prison first. If you or me stole what is basically a fiduciary account we would be in jail ss was supposed to be this.  I am not old enough to collect but I feel that this was started in good faith people paid in in trust and the government violated that trust. The more I read about it a flat tax is sounding better and better. Eliminate ethanol subsidies as well as subsidies for refinery's and put into law that if you want to peddle gas then you have to pay the cost of setting up refining. Look the list goes on and on and most Americans have paid taxes to the government in trust that it would be paid back in certain programs Not to be squandered on special interests. So if you are saying that most Americans or patriots are not willing to see their own programs cut I understand and agree. I want what I paid and pay for and I want politicians that have enough integrity to do what they say and stick to it and when they make a program dont steal from it. Get back the Federal Reserve. Then when we are in good standing supply hand outs to all that we can comfortably afford. But at this point  think this may all be pointless and you Eagle being in another country may be in a good position.

I may be wrong on the exact #'s but the main problem with SS is the age of our population. When SS started there were many more people working than collecting, over the years that has changed 15 to 1 than 9 to 1 and eventually we as baby boomers will make it 1 to 1. I am closing in on collecting also and I believe there has to be a safety net for us old folks ( I have made my own)but I do not want my children paying for it 30 years from now. I shouldn't speak up because I certianly don't have a solution. I do know that spending money on programs while continuing to cut revenue by cutting taxes and allowing the good jobs to leave our country won't work, anyone who has ever balanced a check book knows that. As a nation we police to much of the world, we give away to much money to other nations (you know we actually gave $ to China this year) and we continue to fund more and more programs here at home, then we cut taxes. I may be wrong but it does not make sense to me. I feel bad for the next generation, they will be cleaning up a mess.

[JOCK3]

We have 1.4 million young men in this country who have never worked a day in their lives,we have a situation where Afgan refugies were recieving $300,000 a year in government hand outs that was one mother and her 7 children,there are large families in this country who are recieving in excess of $100,000 a year from the government.

The welfare system in this country was set up as a catchnet for when you fell on hard times,unfortunately it has been abused by millions of people and we now have a situation where it is a lifestyle choice taken by the bone idle.If you are a single person in the UK who is fit for work and out of work the goverment give you $120.00 a week straight off.If you have a familly,the gove will give you money for each child,pay rent for a house,pay for electricity etc and it gets even better if you are descibed by your Doctor as being unfit to work through illness,they even acknowledge Alcoholisim and various other addictions as making you too ill to work.You have to laugh as even the AA program tells your famillies not to give you support as it helps you to find sobriety yet the government gives you money and a house.

i do believe in a welfare program,i do believe in my taxes going towards  a National health system and to provide help to physically and mentally handicapped folks,but, if it was down to me,id make every bone idle dipstick work for their handouts or give them nothing,we are not talking about the "Hungry 30,s" or as you guys call it the great depression,we are talking about people who in a time of plenty have sat on their backsides doing stuff all,we have teenage girls who know that if they want a house all they do is get pregnant,there are a lot of women in this country who have large famillies all to different fathers and all that does is create children who think that all you have to do is make more children and the goverment pays for it.There are 2 million household in this country where no one works,they are all on benefits.

We also have a lot of east european immigrants,as part of the Europe thing we can travell freely between countries and work,so we have about 2-3 million of these guys and on the whole thay come here to work,but if they have children living in their homeland, we stupid Brits give them benefits for their kids who have never set foot in this country

We cant even deport them if even if they commit a serious crime,a typical example is the three Russian guys who were caught red handed with 2 kilos of Heroin,sure they got Jail over here,but their Human rights lawyer,paid for by our Government fought their corner and they get to stay when they come out.

The top Al -queda guy who our Government is trying to extradite to the states has run up a legal bill of $5,000,000 for his team of human rights lawyers who are fighting his case in court and guess who picks up the bill?

Over here in the UK,the Lunitics are well and truely running the Assylum

If i was in the USA right now,id be even more scared of the debt that you are running up with the Chinese,they are going to use that debt to knock you guys off the top spot,one day they will ask for their money and if the tab is too big your going to have to do what we did at the end of WW2 and that is sell the familly silver to your creditor.The chinese will be outbidding us all for what is left of the worlds resources,it wont be too long before we in the west are running about in bycycles and rickshaws  when the chinnese are the guys with the cars.

enjoy riding your valk whilst you can still afford the gas

[Chrisj CMA]

Its amazing to me how people that are into "spinning" facts get the most angry when truth is intergected.  Strong Eagle you cant help yourself....I get it, you must really have the Napolean thing or something.  Evertime you post about something you disagree with you start off by insulting people. 

We dont need that here.......It would be better if you just unplugged that catho-ray tube if thats what you have to offer.

Socialism......This may not be the deffinition you will read in the dictionary, well maybe it is, I havent looked.  But what patriots (and by that I mean anyone that is willing to stand against a government that wants total control and fight for the America that the forefathers created.)call it is:

Socialism (the stuff that will bring us to fists and bullets) is when the government decides they know better what to do for you and with your money than you do, so they try to contol every aspect of life and make everyone equal whether they deserve it or not. 

See, when this happenes the lazy ones, (many that voted for Obama) sit back and smile because they know they will get more for doing what they always did.....NOTHING

The problem is while the ones that are doing nothing will get more for a while.....the ones that earn the money and then have it taken away will NOT continue to provide the wealth for redistribution forever, so eventually the government will run out of other peoples money and those ENTITILED to all the support will cry out and demand

It will get ugly if something doesnt change

[tank_post142]

looks to me like we are standing up tonite! thanks to the voters

[Chrisj CMA]

Well....too bad, Ried survived but we get to wave bye bye to Pelosi as speaker! 

[Robert]

Ding Dong The Witch is Dead	powered by Aeva

[G-Man]

Didn't Spend Enough ? ? ? ? ? ?

We spent almost $2 trillion between TARP, bailouts, and stimulus.  Not enough?  Do you recall what happened when we let THEM spend our money.  EIGHT THOUSAND earmarks in one bill alone, that he signed into law without ANYBODY READING.  I am so incredibley amazed that people, who think of themselves as intelligent can still trust gov't to SPEND OUR MONEY CORRECTLY and want to give them more.  A million here, a couple million there, a few more million over that way to save a mouse.  And we should allow them to spend MORE of our money?  They threw away all that money and unemployment went UP and foreclosures went (and are still going) UP and the number of businesses that closed went UP.  But we should spend MORE?

And BTW, welfare accounts for a lot more than 3% of the budget at the state level because the feds left them holding the bag to the tune of billions.  And folks are saying leave my SS alone because they PAID FOR IT all these years through ADDITIONAL payroll taxes in the way of FICA, then soscial security and Medicare taxes.  We should pay all of these mandatory taxes for 45 years, then just simply give up what was paid for???  Obama care cut $500 billion from Medicaire, shouldn't all those who paid Medicare taxes get their fare share back percentage wise instead of just losing it?  Trust them with MORE of our money.

Everytime I hear someone say "WE should have spent more", I cringe.

[Skinhead]

+1 G-Man.

[x]

Everytime I hear someone say "WE should have spent more", I cringe.[/size]

All this demonstrates is a lack of understanding of the issues, which are global and systemic.  And a failure to understand US economic history.

[G-Man]

So, would another trillion have worked?  Maybe 2 or 3 more trillion?  These aren't geniouses spending this money.  These are people who owe there existence to others.  8,000 earmarks demonstrated THAT perfectly.  The more we give them to spend, the more earmarks there would have been, the more mice will be saved, or more marsh land in the middle of nowhere will be off limits to everything but cost millions to "maintane".   

I understand the issues just fine.  I also live in the real world, not some ideological fairy land.

Tell me, what would spending more actually do?  They wasted the first trillion and EVERYTHING they said it would accomplish failed.....AND GOT WORSE.  What would more money accomplish?  And who do you want to take more money from?  Should those of who do pay taxes continue to trust those who have hurt us?  The same people who couldn't wait to get their hands on the bill to payoff others and advance their selfish pet projects.  It was all one sided, so, what, 80 democrats wrote the bill, each one getting about a 100 earmarks each, and it failed.  Give them more money to spend?  You have demonstrated that you don't understand reality.

[Varmintmist]

Liberalism is the ability to stand on ones head and tell the world that it is upside down.

[Hoser]

Ref Social Security:  Yes, all us evil old gray haired bikers on this board are gonna spend all our checks, and live to be a hundred, and there ain't gonna be none left fer you young whippersnappers!  Moo Hah Hah Hah!!!!!       Hoser  

[98valk]

THE DEFINITION OF
POLITICAL CORRECTNESS

"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical Liberal minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous Left-stream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end." - Author Unknown

“With limited thinking abilities and knowledge of our heritage, we Americans set ourselves up as easy prey for charlatans, hustlers and quacks.” – Walter E. Williams

what are the people in kentucky thinking, he won the recent election.

Rep. John Yarmuth (D - Kentucky)
"[The Constitution] really doesn't prohibit the government from doing virtually anything - the federal government...I am not sure there is anything under current interpretation of the Commerce Clause that the government couldn't do."

I used to be surprised to hear Democrats say stuff like this, but it's becoming so regular I'm ceasing to be shocked at all...Not that I'm any less disgusted.

My favorite part is the statement about "current interpretation" ; which is at least a little truthful, because there's no way the Founding Fathers or our leaders in the 19th Century and most of the 20th looked at the Constitution in such a way...Only modern-day Liberals do.

"The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government." - Patrick Henry

The scary thing is the way Democrats use their "interpretation" of the Constitution to dictate to and rule the people.

"Government is not reason; it is not eloquence.  It is force.  And force, like fire, is a dangerous servant and a fearful master." - George Washington

There should be no doubt who Rep. Yarmuth plans on being the master (government) and the servant (the people).

for your reading pleasure, but most likely u will be disgusted
http://libbyquotes.blogspot.com/

[Billy]

Market wus up over 200 points today and is close to what it was before it went into freefall back in 2008  when all you could hear then was that the world economy was close to collaspe. Somebody must be doing something right. Thank you Obama. 

[Trynt]

Liberalism is the ability to stand on ones head and tell the world that it is upside down.

An apt definition.

[fstsix]

Market wus up over 200 points today and is close to what it was before it went into freefall back in 2008  when all you could hear then was that the world economy was close to collaspe. Somebody must be doing something right. Thank you Obama. 

Brilliant!! thanks for your In site, Wall street Elite's Obama's buddies LOL!! You betcha they are doing Well, How about Main street ? Here is your most Liberal Rag i could find...Show us Mainstreet folk some good news!!   http://www.huffingtonpost.com/michael-j-panzner/wall-streets-gains-equal_b_244721.html  Thanks Obama 

[Billy]

Didn't you hear? This country is run by and for the "Big Boys"  and the "Big Boys" are doing quite well. Last year GM sold more cars in China than in the US for the first time. There is where our middle class went. I hear they just love Buicks