I pose the question...

[Big Rig]

A female co-worker of mine, sent an e-mail asking for clothing donations and unused household items. The area where she lives has mostly migrant workers. So I ask the question, in donating to these needy people, am I helping them (immedialtely I know I am) or encouraging them and other to stay around?? Most are more than likely undocumented...

Slam away, I am interested in your thoughts, good bad or indifferent.

[Jabba]

needy by our standards and their standards is totally different.

I say... donate your time, effort and clothing elsewhere.  Just MY opinion. 

More importantly, don't hire anyone for anything if you know they use illegal immigrant labor.  That's tough to do sometimes... but if you believe in it, it's time to put your money where your mouth is.

Jabba

[Walküre]

A female co-worker of mine, sent an e-mail asking for clothing donations and unused household items. The area where she lives has mostly migrant workers. So I ask the question, in donating to these needy people, am I helping them (immedialtely I know I am) or encouraging them and other to stay around?? Most are more than likely undocumented...

Slam away, I am interested in your thoughts, good bad or indifferent.

These are needy people, and you are helping them. Does anything else REALLY matter?

Guess I would have to say, decide what your conscience allows you to do. Personally, I always consider what will mean the most - we will always have undocumented workers - they are a part of the economy. But we don't always have the chance, or ability, to help our fellow human beings.

needy by our standards and their standards is totally different.

More importantly, don't hire anyone for anything if you know they use illegal immigrant labor.  That's tough to do sometimes... but if you believe in it, it's time to put your money where your mouth is.

Jabba

Don't mean to be catty, but it's strange that someone in Indiana, can determine exactly what the circumstances and needs of those in a different state are. Could very possibly be people with absolutely nothing, and getting ready to freeze for the winter.

As for hiring undocumented workers, I agree. As for penalizing those that DO, I agree. As for doing anything you can to destroy them, I disagree...

R

[Jabba]

I don't want to DESTROY them.

I want them to go home and take care of themselves, and quit being a burden on MY government.

Go be a burden on THEIR government.

I help a lot of people, and spend a fair bit on charity.  I like charity.  I think we should do MORE charity.  But I think the GOVERNMENT should NOT force charity upon us, by spending our TAX DOLLARS on charity.  It steals the grace from both the giver and the recipient.

Jabba

[Jeff K]

A female co-worker of mine, sent an e-mail asking for clothing donations and unused household items. The area where she lives has mostly migrant workers. So I ask the question, in donating to these needy people, am I helping them (immedialtely I know I am) or encouraging them and other to stay around?? Most are more than likely undocumented...

Slam away, I am interested in your thoughts, good bad or indifferent.

These are needy people, and you are helping them. Does anything else REALLY matter?

Guess I would have to say, decide what your conscience allows you to do. Personally, I always consider what will mean the most - we will always have undocumented workers - they are a part of the economy. But we don't always have the chance, or ability, to help our fellow human beings.

needy by our standards and their standards is totally different.

More importantly, don't hire anyone for anything if you know they use illegal immigrant labor.  That's tough to do sometimes... but if you believe in it, it's time to put your money where your mouth is.

Jabba

Don't mean to be catty, but it's strange that someone in Indiana, can determine exactly what the circumstances and needs of those in a different state are. Could very possibly be people with absolutely nothing, and getting ready to freeze for the winter.

As for hiring undocumented workers, I agree. As for penalizing those that DO, I agree. As for doing anything you can to destroy them, I disagree...

R

It sure is easy to be generous with other people's money. Why don't you sell all of your tools and toys and donate the proceeds to the "needy"? Don't you feel guilty living above the poverty level when you could spread YOUR wealth and help so many needy people?
Why are there ANY rich or even middle class Progressives? Why have they not donated all of their wealth to the needy?
Greedy bastards! [/sarcasm font]

[Jabba]

I see generally 3 sorts of Liberals.

Those that receive other people's wealth. 

Those that feel guilty for having theirs.  Ie many actors, performers, and persons who inherited their wealth.  basically people that got it the EASY way.

Unionites, that are successfully brainwashed into buying the union kool-aid.

Jabba

[PAVALKER]

If you are going to put out a bird feeder/bath, expect to have the birds hanging around making a mess and shitting all over the place.  Bird feed also attracts squirrels, raccoons, skunks and rats.....

If you already know that they are most likely undocumented, and therefore illegal, why not contribute to those that are legal and also needy which have taken the proper steps to assimilate to our society instead of having our society assimilate to them?

[SANDMAN5]

I just typed a reply to this, and when I hit "post" it disappeared
Long story short, it's good to help people until they start abusing the help
and refuse to try and better their position in life.

[czuch]

I routinely donate the smaller stuff, read kids, to the Church and orginsations like that.
The other stuff goes to the good will so they can buy it, or get it outta the collection box.
I  love the "Bird feeder" analogy
I work hard for everything I own. What happened to "He came here with $20 in his pocket"?

[Walküre]

I don't want to DESTROY them.

I want them to go home and take care of themselves, and quit being a burden on MY government.

Go be a burden on THEIR government.

I help a lot of people, and spend a fair bit on charity.  I like charity.  I think we should do MORE charity.  But I think the GOVERNMENT should NOT force charity upon us, by spending our TAX DOLLARS on charity.  It steals the grace from both the giver and the recipient.

Jabba

Now, was ANYthing said about government? Was anything said about these people being a burden on YOUR government (my government, too, remember...). Nope. And was anything said that specifically said these people were undocumented? MANY migrant workers ARE documented. You just don't hear much about them. Nor was it the government asking for help for these people. I would hope that the people I work with, that I spend as much time with as I do my family, would know whether these are people that truly need a helping hand, or are just "playing the system", here to screw me and you....

But then, I have high hopes for the human race. But sometimes, I wonder...

Maybe we should give them all smallpox laden blankets?

That might help get rid of the savages...ooops, wrong era, just the same idea...

R

[Walküre]

I routinely donate the smaller stuff, read kids, to the Church and orginsations like that.

What's the write-off for a kid? Does it matter if it's a boy or girl??



Couldn't help myself...

R

[Walküre]

It sure is easy to be generous with other people's money. Why don't you sell all of your tools and toys and donate the proceeds to the "needy"? Don't you feel guilty living above the poverty level when you could spread YOUR wealth and help so many needy people?
Why are there ANY rich or even middle class Progressives? Why have they not donated all of their wealth to the needy?
Greedy bastards! [/sarcasm font]

What a crock of s**t, Jeff. The original poster was asked to donate used clothing and appliances to help the needy. You, and people LIKE you change that into "man, these needy people don't REALLY need anything - they want 60" color tv's, and my car, and everything I have!!".

No, I don't feel guilty at all. I donate whatever I can, whenever I can. I give to freecycle, a tremendous amount of stuff. I grow my hair long, VERY long, and donate it to kids with cancer, through "Locks of Love", I donate to CFC through payroll deduction, I recycle virtually EVERYthing in my household. I put on a big Christmas computerized display, and collect food for the food pantry. I'm lucky to have a job, that pays me enough to have toys, etc. That doesn't stop me from HAVING a conscience, and from giving whenever I can.

I stand by what I said. Let your conscience dictate whether you help others or not. No one said anything about the government stepping in, on the original post, nor my answer...but there's always someone that has to inject it, then a whole bunch of others, that jump on the band wagon.

Geez!

R

[RonW]

So I ask the question, in donating to these needy people, am I helping them (immedialtely I know I am) or encouraging them and other to stay around?? Most are more than likely undocumented...

you ain't seen nothing yet. Here, we're picking up the tab for the micronesians for their kidney dialysis and diabetes treatments due to the past nuclear testing to the tune of $120 million a year. Of which the federal gov't reimburses the state a whopping $11 million (not a typo) per year. Adding in the cost of public housing and the insurance for their SUV's, it costing the state a conservative $200 million per year to support these bozos who btw are not even US citizens. They have struck it rich here all the while both state and city workers are furloughed the last 2 Fridays of the month. I think the question was about donating.

[czuch]

I dont get it?  Maybe I''m thick.
I dont write off my charity. I give from the heart, not the wallet.
I have put a $5 in the pocket sometimes during a better year.
Please dont take this as "holier than thou".
Thats not how its meant.

[Jeff K]

It sure is easy to be generous with other people's money. Why don't you sell all of your tools and toys and donate the proceeds to the "needy"? Don't you feel guilty living above the poverty level when you could spread YOUR wealth and help so many needy people?
Why are there ANY rich or even middle class Progressives? Why have they not donated all of their wealth to the needy?
Greedy bastards! [/sarcasm font]

What a crock of s**t, Jeff. The original poster was asked to donate used clothing and appliances to help the needy. You, and people LIKE you change that into "man, these needy people don't REALLY need anything - they want 60" color tv's, and my car, and everything I have!!".

No, I don't feel guilty at all. I donate whatever I can, whenever I can. I give to freecycle, a tremendous amount of stuff. I grow my hair long, VERY long, and donate it to kids with cancer, through "Locks of Love", I donate to CFC through payroll deduction, I recycle virtually EVERYthing in my household. I put on a big Christmas computerized display, and collect food for the food pantry. I'm lucky to have a job, that pays me enough to have toys, etc. That doesn't stop me from HAVING a conscience, and from giving whenever I can.

I stand by what I said. Let your conscience dictate whether you help others or not. No one said anything about the government stepping in, on the original post, nor my answer...but there's always someone that has to inject it, then a whole bunch of others, that jump on the band wagon.

Geez!

R

As usual you missed the point and made up your own facts.
I never said "man, these needy people don't REALLY need anything - they want 60" color tv's, and my car, and everything I have!!".
And you don't "donate whatever I can" You donate whatever you want. If you donated everything you could, you would forgo all the luxuries of life. So you donate to your comfort level. The problem is you want to decide for everyone else what their comfort level should be. And if we don't agree with you, you believe the government should remove our wealth and bring everyone down closer to your level.
So it's OK for you to retain a life style you enjoy, but others should be forced to conform to it also.

[RoadKill]

If you have something to give.....GIVE IT !  If you dont know who you are giving it to,then you should go meet them yourself! If your rich neighbor needs a lawnmower you can give them yours and ask that they find something to give someone else that they find worthy...PAY IT FORWARD !
any way you can,it is easy when you think about it. If you are concerned who may benefit, then you just donate a little time as well 

[big turkey]

Giving is not going to give them the wrong idea.

They already have the wrong idea.

It will just keep them warm.

And the last thing we need is a bunch of naked Mexicans picking beans.

Al

[alph]

In some cities it's illegal to feed the pigeons.  Why?  Because the city DOESN’T WANT THEM AROUND!!.  What blows me away is that so many people complain about illegal aliens, but when José comes around and says he'll mow your yard for $20, most people hire him!!

I don’t get it?  If he’s here illegally, that makes him a criminal right?  If a man rapes a woman that makes him a rapist, right?  If a person robs a bank, he’s a thief, right?  Why is it okay to commit one crime and we’ll help you out, but if you commit another type, it’s okay???

[RoadKill]

If you dont believe in feeding the pigeons...THEN FEED THE SQUIRRELS! !  Find a "squirrel" and if you deem it worthy...FEED IT !

[Varmintmist]

Tom Lehrer - Poisoning Pigeons In The Park - now on DVD	powered by Aeva

[alph]

If you dont believe in feeding the pigeons...THEN FEED THE SQUIRRELS! !  Find a "squirrel" and if you deem it worthy...FEED IT !

i use to hate squirrels, then i found out i was cooking 'em wrong.  they're much better on the grill AFTER you gut 'em!!

[Jabba]

Now, was ANYthing said about government? Was anything said about these people being a burden on YOUR government (my government, too, remember...). Nope. And was anything said that specifically said these people were undocumented? MANY migrant workers ARE documented. You just don't hear much about them. Nor was it the government asking for help for these people. I would hope that the people I work with, that I spend as much time with as I do my family, would know whether these are people that truly need a helping hand, or are just "playing the system", here to screw me and you....

But then, I have high hopes for the human race. But sometimes, I wonder...

Maybe we should give them all smallpox laden blankets?

That might help get rid of the savages...ooops, wrong era, just the same idea...

R

The OP DID in fact say many were likely undocumented.  Admittedly, that was supposition on his part. 

The government IS involved in Charity IMO.  They collect from the rich, and redistribute to the poor.  That IS charity.  Charity is, IMO, supposed to be giving by ones own free will.  That FEELS good.  That's why people do it.  When the Government TAKES it, and GIVES it, it doesn't FEEL good.

Now when that charity is given to people in the form of public assistance, food stamps  etc, and the biggest health problem is obesity... it's a problem.  When these (not the Mexicans necessarily) have nicer cell phones, better data plans, video games, free healthcare and nicer cars than I do... I have a problem with that.  And don't tell me it isn't true.  I see it EVERY day.  I do a lot of work at a local public health clinic.  The people there receive free healthcare, and MOST have pretty nice cars, and cell phones.  The place is FULL of spanish speaking leeches. 

My neighbors daughter gets a bunch of public assistance because she is so poor, and has a kid my an ILLEGAL Mexican.  She lives with her mom and dad, it a pretty nice house, on 5 acres.  She CHOOSES not to have a job.  How is it REASONABLE that she receives wealth redistributed from me, who busts my ass, and makes a living?

One of the guys that works for me pay $800 a month for health insurance for his family of 4.  and it's NOT great coverage either.  Yet... if you CHOOSE not to work, you get it for free.

How about I get to decide who deserves my charity for a change?

Jabba

[Airetime]

A female co-worker of mine, sent an e-mail asking for clothing donations and unused household items. The area where she lives has mostly migrant workers. So I ask the question, in donating to these needy people, am I helping them (immedialtely I know I am) or encouraging them and other to stay around?? Most are more than likely undocumented...

Slam away, I am interested in your thoughts, good bad or indifferent.

Migrant workers are seasonal workers and are defined as those who work in countries other than their own. That being said, I would not assume one way or the other if they are illegal or if they are legal "Green Carders". It's dang cold out there at night in most places this time of the year and unless you have spent time being homeless, it is hard to relate (yes, many years ago I was) If I had a choice, I would not let another freeze or starve. If here illegally, feed, cloth and send them back to their own country and then have them come back here legally.

[x]

I don't want to DESTROY them.

I want them to go home and take care of themselves, and quit being a burden on MY government.

Go be a burden on THEIR government.

I help a lot of people, and spend a fair bit on charity.  I like charity.  I think we should do MORE charity.  But I think the GOVERNMENT should NOT force charity upon us, by spending our TAX DOLLARS on charity.  It steals the grace from both the giver and the recipient.

Jabba

Responses like this make me want to puke.  They wouldn't be here if they could make a living at home.  And I bet a hundred bux your charity donations are a lot of smoke.

[Charlie]

A female co-worker of mine, sent an e-mail asking for clothing donations and unused household items. The area where she lives has mostly migrant workers. So I ask the question, in donating to these needy people, am I helping them (immedialtely I know I am) or encouraging them and other to stay around?? Most are more than likely undocumented...

Slam away, I am interested in your thoughts, good bad or indifferent.

Someone please tell me how a private individual, who has things he owns, and is considering donating them to another private individual, has anything to do with this whole discussion.

My understanding of the issue of getting government out of the business of deciding what and how we use our assets is the EXACT ISSUE the Conservative Right and Libertarians are fighting, tooth and nail, about.  So here we have one of those caring people, wanting to follow that tenent, and we have Conservative Right People telling him not to do it.

When is it ok to care about others?

I always crack up when I hear people saying you should donate to the church.  I sat on the Board of World Service for years, and I know where that money goes, in most churches.  It was ok, because it was private individuals deciding what and how they use their assets.  No government involvement.

[MNBill]

My brother-in-law had a welding company. They would buy bailed clothes from these places to use as rags.

[Jabba]

I don't want to DESTROY them.

I want them to go home and take care of themselves, and quit being a burden on MY government.

Go be a burden on THEIR government.

I help a lot of people, and spend a fair bit on charity.  I like charity.  I think we should do MORE charity.  But I think the GOVERNMENT should NOT force charity upon us, by spending our TAX DOLLARS on charity.  It steals the grace from both the giver and the recipient.

Jabba

Responses like this make me want to puke.  They wouldn't be here if they could make a living at home.  And I bet a hundred bux your charity donations are a lot of smoke.

My 53 year old brother.  No job.  No real ambition to get one.  Clinically depressed.  Divorced.  judgements against him for defaulting on a mortgage.  He lives with me.  I feed him.  House him.  and keep him off the public dole.  I put my money where my mouth is when it comes to public assistance.   He could get a lot of it.  But, since he lives with me, and I feed him as well.  The American people don't HAVE to.

I donate to paralyzed Hoosier Vets yearly.  BSA.  Wheeler Mission.  Hunters for the hungry.  Not to mention taking care of the people in my family, and circle of friends that are in need.

Send my $100 to the Wheeler Mission In indianapolis Indiana.

Thanks.

Jabba

[GREENDRAGON]

People are people. Either you help or you don't. whats in your heart? I help anyone I can when I can.
I may need that help in return one day. If you needed help desperatly, you would probably take it from anyone willing to give it.
Just my opinion, Take care.

[Willow]

People are people. Either you help or you don't. whats in your heart? I help anyone I can when I can.

This I see as wisdom although I agree in part with what Jabba says in that we can, by some distributions encourage wrong behavior.

The original poster asked, if I understood, about giving from his excess, that is from what he had to spare, not about sacrificial giving.  I think the truly generous person will give easily from his excess to anyone in need, knowing that sometimes his gifts will be misused, but that often his gifts will make a small difference. 

Gifts are given without strings. Distributions, loans, and such are presented with careful thought and conditions.

Many years ago I was in  Chicago for professional training.  I stayed in a nice hotel and I wore a nice suit of clothes to class each day.  I had no concern for the price of my meals as my employer was graciously bearing that expense.

At lunch time I walked from the building in which my classes were held past a large brick newspaper provider's headquarters to the McDonald's down the way.  Chicago streets were rich with panhandlers.  Rounding the corner I was addressed by a lad standing at the edge of the sidewalk, but his voice was too low and too soft for me to distinguish his words.

I stopped and asked, "I beg you pardon?"

He asked whether I could spare some change so he could get something to eat.  The streets were full of people on their way to lunch, many headed to the same McDonald's I intended to utilize.  Delaying my progress would undoubtedly result in my waiting longer in line, diminishing my precious lunch break.

I was sure his family had sent him out to prey upon the naive out-of-towners.  With that soft voice and the little orphan like visage he must've been able to rake in a bundle in a short period of time on the street.

I was a clever young man prepared that I might not technically say, "No," but also not risk exposing any real currency.  I kept my money primarily in my left front pocket and a small number of coins in my right.  I reached into my right pocket and produced a couple of quarters a dime and some pennies for the young fellow.  And I wished him well.

I sat down at McDonald's with the meal I had chosen, selecting a seat that allowed me to watch the crowd as they filtered through.  I was probably about half though my three Big Macs, fries, large Dr. Pepper, and chocolate shake when I noticed the little boy from the street at the counter.  He had a small number of coins in his left palm and with his right hand he was counting their value while studying the menu on the wall.  It appeared that what he had in his hand was exactly what I had placed there.

I have never recovered from the ache that filled my chest that day.  I've never gotten over how small and how dirty and how mean I felt in that moment.  I would like to say that I jumped up, rushed to the counter, and bought that little boy more food than he could possibly eat.  I didn't.

If you are one of us who have no concern over what we will eat during the week or where we'll sleep for the next month and if you puzzle as do I over which set of clothes you'll put on each morning, then you are rich.  Riches are a bit like alcohol, when you're most concerned about owning your riches is when they begin to own you.

A very wise man once advised, "Give to him who asks of you and do not turn away from him who wants to borrow from you.  If someone wants to sue you and take away your shirt, give him your coat also."

Hard words.  He died incidentally naked and alone, but the world has never quite gotten over his life.  I want to be like Him.           

[~ Timbrwolf]

. ....yeh well. ...yanno what REALLY gets MY goat ?


. .....people like .. ...THIS !


....I mean....ALL that moola ! . ...and they ...GIVE it away !


. ..I mean.....Really !


. ...and just look at who they gave  it to....Local Fire Company ....Red Cross. ....FOOD BANKS !


. ..I mean.....C Monnnnnnn !!!



. ....and their friggin...Canadian ta Boot !!!



. .....I mean....dont get me friggin started... eh ? ..  



. . . . ...........................  



http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_upshot/20101104/od_yblog_upshot/nicest-canadian-couple-in-world-doles-out-lottery-winnings



. . .......*wanders off singing*. . ....Happiness....is a warm gun. . ...Bang..Bang...Shoot..Shoot.. . .

[PAVALKER]

Interesting story..... you both might have been better served if you have brought him to lunch with you instead of just giving him some money.  Imagine what conversation might have transpired.....


And on another note....   are you kidding me?  "three Big Macs, fries, large Dr. Pepper, and chocolate shake"   I can't imagine trying to eat/drink all that.....

[Big Rig]

I guess it is time for me to chime in...

When  I posted this, I was not sure of the response I would get, but I do value most of if not all of your opinions, not that any of you would be able to sway my decission.

I do enjoy the reads, all of them...we are a diversified bunch of people that share the same passion.

I have made a decission to help those that I can.

As many of you may know, I organize at least on charity event a year for a local family (children mostly) that could use a helping hand. Several of you have made monetary donations and for that I am forever thankful.

R.1.D.E -

R1 - Ride first
D - Donate
E - Educate

It is what I try to do on a daily basis. I know I can not help everyone all the time, but I help those I think I can...selective of course...but that is me.

Ride when you can, help when you can, and be better today than you were yesterday.



We all have our own stories and feelings on why we do what we do.

[fiddle mike]

A female co-worker of mine, sent an e-mail asking for clothing donations and unused household items. The area where she lives has mostly migrant workers. So I ask the question, in donating to these needy people, am I helping them (immedialtely I know I am) or encouraging them and other to stay around?? Most are more than likely undocumented...

Slam away, I am interested in your thoughts, good bad or indifferent.

Which crimes do you want to abet?  Besides, you already pay for illegals through your taxes.

[Charlie]

I guess it is time for me to chime in...

When  I posted this, I was not sure of the response I would get, but I do value most of if not all of your opinions, not that any of you would be able to sway my decission.

I do enjoy the reads, all of them...we are a diversified bunch of people that share the same passion.

I have made a decission to help those that I can.

As many of you may know, I organize at least on charity event a year for a local family (children mostly) that could use a helping hand. Several of you have made monetary donations and for that I am forever thankful.

R.1.D.E -

R1 - Ride first
D - Donate
E - Educate

It is what I try to do on a daily basis. I know I can not help everyone all the time, but I help those I think I can...selective of course...but that is me.

Ride when you can, help when you can, and be better today than you were yesterday.



We all have our own stories and feelings on why we do what we do.

Very impressive!  I am proud to call you Brother!