Arizona to fight our GOV. and OTHER COUNTRIES????? WTH!!!!!!!

[Bobbo]

The essential liberty of being free from government harassment just because an officer believes you are illegal.

The essential liberty of not having an officer speak to you and ask for valid identification?  Where the (expletive) have you EVER had that liberty?

Again, the question isn’t one of a valid ID, but one of on-the-spot proof of citizenship, or legal alien status.  

[RoadKill]

last year I was pulled over by an officer because I sounded my horn to avoid being killed on my bike The officer was illegally blocking traffic and I made him drop his coffee so he followed me and pulled me over
giving me a ticket for eyewear of all things,

It was an illegal stop

I fought the ticket

I won

I am a white man

So if I am a hispanic is it any less an unlawful stop or more of one?

If I had no license I could be pulled in same with the new law  

That is what the courts are for  To rule on these laws once passed and challenged by those who were charged under the law  checks and balances  not to use an executive created post to abort a duly enacted state law

Do I carry ID?  yes to get in the court, to drive, to get a library book

Obama tried to do an abortion on the law and mark my words down here he will now be a one term president because of it and not because of the health care initiative  I will take that 5 buck bet john if you want in

You are white? WTF? Show me your greencard...where in germany were you born?  do you have a valid Swedish passport and where in Switzerland do your parents live? 

[RoadKill]

The essential liberty of being free from government harassment just because an officer believes you are illegal.

The essential liberty of not having an officer speak to you and ask for valid identification?  Where the (expletive) have you EVER had that liberty?

Again, the question isn’t one of a valid ID, but one of on-the-spot proof of citizenship, or legal alien status.  

What do you need to obtain a VALID ID in this country? When I got my drivers license I had to have a notarized copy of birth certificate,and I presented my tax return from previous year because they would not accept the military dependent ID my MOTHER handed them! Maybe I should sue! 

[Bobbo]

In the interest of limiting redundant posts, anyone questioning the implications (or lack thereof) regarding this law, please do a search of SB 1070 on this forum.

[Sludge]

Actually, Bobbo... I would only use lethal force if no ground forces were present to stop the illegals crossing.  Areas that arent urban on both sides of the border.  If they couldnt be picked up, I would kill the guide or the unlucky SOB he put in front.  I bet they would turn back.  However, if they persisted, I would continue killing until they did turn back or all adults were dead. Call in some help, pick the kids up (if on the US side) and turn them back over to the authorities in MEXICO.  If on their side, call their folks and let them pick them up.  I have no problem snatching the life out of folks.  I dont want to do it, but Im not going to lose sleep over it.  Is war murder?   If my government sets me loose on them... then so be it.

I took an oath once upon a time to protect my country and constitution against all enemies both foreign and domestic.  Taking lives is really the LAST thing I want to do.  However, it would be effective at stopping the problem. Then handle the internal problem through deportation of any law breaking illegals.  Have some kind of path to citizenship with fines and penalties for the rest.  The first step is stemming the tide.

Take for instance what would happen if I tried to break into the White House.  I jump the fence and go racing across the lawn.  They will try to stop me, but if I am faster than their response on the ground, rest assured, I will find lead poisoning before I reach the half way point.   Would that be murder on their part?  Is it an effective deterrent?

I do think before I post and I understand your viewpoint in many cases even though I do not always agree with it.  I even understand it on this issue.

You need to understand something though.  I once was an active duty Marine.  Im still a Marine at heart, down deep under the layers of fat that the past 20 years or so has deposited on top of that young man.  However, my killer instinct is intact as well as the honed skill of my trigger finger.  You need to start to understand that viewpoint.  The viewpoint of someone trained to be the last measure.  Taking the uniform off doesnt change anything of the man underneath.  I was prepared to go into harms way then and now.  Nothing in that regard has ever changed.

We have folks being abducted in the US and taken across the border for ransom.  We have the drug trade and all the mess that makes, spilling across our border without any serious deterrent.  The NYC police department outnumbers the border patrol.  Our government services and hospitals are over ran.  Our federal government is basically ignoring the problem.  One party ignores the problem under the guise of humanity, but in reality it is seeking a VOTING BLOCK. 

This problem should have never gotten this far.  ALL parties involved have let it happen. 

Im a simpleton I guess in your eyes.  I see death as a pretty persuasive deterrent.  If a criminal comes into my house, I intend to kill him.  Im not going to invite him to sit down and have coffee with me while we negotiate him staying in a room, stealing my stuff and eating for free out of my refrigerator.  Not much difference with the border to me.  Its our BORDER.  Our HOUSE. 

Let it be known that on a certain date we will enforce border security. Once the message is sent someone will press their luck and doubt the resolve of the gunman.  Only a few will have to die.  The message will be clear.

The drug cartels will no doubt bring in some shooters of their own.  So be it.  Under fire, a radio call to a reaction force and a military response from some attack helos or ground forces would be in order.

Other governments would surely wring their hands but that doesnt really concern me.  Screw them.  Its an internal matter and none of their business.

[RoadKill]

In the interest of limiting redundant posts, anyone questioning the implications (or lack thereof) regarding this law, please do a search of SB 1070 on this forum.

And please read between the lines as Bobbo has....Bobbo knows best.  

[Oss]

sludge for president

we need a marine in the white house  and a valkyrie rider to boot

just tell me you did not inhale,  or if you did that you enjoyed it

I will be your attorney general if you will have me on the team

[Sludge]

LOL not to worry.  I have never inhaled.  Ive taken a drink or two, but no other mind altering drugs. 

Besides, I lack the requisite trait of WANTING power.  So, ya see, Im disqualified right off the bat.

[Trynt]

[/quote]

Hispanic looking people here legally from those other countries could also be harassed and jailed for no other reason other than looking Hispanic.


[/quote]

The law specifically prohibits the above.

A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICIAL OR AGENCY OF THIS STATE OR A COUNTY,
31 CITY, TOWN OR OTHER POLITICAL SUBDIVISION OF THIS STATE MAY NOT SOLELY
32 CONSIDER RACE, COLOR OR NATIONAL ORIGIN IN IMPLEMENTING THE REQUIREMENTS OF
33 THIS SUBSECTION

[Bobbo]

Hispanic looking people here legally from those other countries could also be harassed and jailed for no other reason other than looking Hispanic.

The law specifically prohibits the above.

A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICIAL OR AGENCY OF THIS STATE OR A COUNTY,
31 CITY, TOWN OR OTHER POLITICAL SUBDIVISION OF THIS STATE MAY NOT SOLELY
32 CONSIDER RACE, COLOR OR NATIONAL ORIGIN IN IMPLEMENTING THE REQUIREMENTS OF
33 THIS SUBSECTION

Subjective and vague parts of the law are impossible to enforce, and become meaningless in practice.

[G-Man]

So, by enforcing OUR immigration laws and protecting OUR borders and citizens from all of the evils of illegal immigration, we could affect those other countries?



Who gives a rats a$$ ??


And the courts allowing them to add anyhting to this case is an absotule smack in the face of the American citizens.

The new law gives specific powers to the police that can infringe on legal citizens rights.  That is the main reason the DOJ is challenging the statute.  Hispanic looking people here legally from those other countries could also be harassed and jailed for no other reason other than looking Hispanic.

Just saying "Looking Hispanic" is racist to begin with.  George Lopez stated that Hispanics are as white as Cameron Diaz and as Black as Sammy Sossa.  So what does an hispanic look like?  Reminds of of the jokes I heard as a kid where the punch line was always "Funny, you don't look Jewish!"  If you can't define what an hispanic looks like, then you infringe on EVERYBODY'S rights.  So, if everybody engaging in an illegal activity would carry identification, then nobody's rights would be infringed upon by the new law.  How simple is that?

[G-Man]

New bills need to be scrutinized BEFORE they become law, to weed out problems and keep police and government intrusions to a minimum.

Like the stimulus bill that was written behind closed doors, not read, signed, then demonstrated to contain 8,000 earmarks (after he promised during his campaign that he wouldn't allow pork and earmarks)?   

Or Pelosi's famous (infamous) "You'll have to pass the bill to see what's in it?      

I couldn't resist.   

[G-Man]

The essential liberty of being free from government harassment just because an officer believes you are illegal.

You didn't finish the sentence.  The WHOLE sentence should read:

"The essential liberty of being free from government harassment just because an officer believes you are illegal after he has detained you during a criminal investigation".

Now you can surely see just how silly this argument is.

[Bobbo]

The essential liberty of being free from government harassment just because an officer believes you are illegal.

You didn't finish the sentence.  The WHOLE sentence should read:

"The essential liberty of being free from government harassment just because an officer believes you are illegal after he has detained you during a criminal investigation".

Now you can surely see just how silly this argument is.

Unfortunately, the law doesn’t read that way.  It allows the officer to detain or arrest, without warrant, a SUSPECTED illegal, not necessarily one involved in a crime.

[Bobbo]

New bills need to be scrutinized BEFORE they become law, to weed out problems and keep police and government intrusions to a minimum.

Like the stimulus bill that was written behind closed doors, not read, signed, then demonstrated to contain 8,000 earmarks (after he promised during his campaign that he wouldn't allow pork and earmarks)?   

Or Pelosi's famous (infamous) "You'll have to pass the bill to see what's in it?      

I couldn't resist.   

That one as well.  We will now have untold numbers of lawsuits challenging many elements of this new law, further wasting time and taxpayer money.  My beliefs on this subject aren’t biased to any party or politician.

[Oss]

Bobbo, please read over my post on page 1

Remember it must be a legitimate stop  not just you look funny

dont really know how funny you look as I have never seen your pic just throwing the example out there

here is one  example

Oss runs a red light and get pulled over 
May I see some id please  license registration
Officer I have no id
now the officer can follow up

or Oss is weaving on the road  (never happened its just an example)

or Oss has stopped to pick up hitchhikers on a state highway where it is not allowed by statute

you get the idea

I have no doubt that removing drivers with no id, insurance etc will immediately save lives and again what freedom do you and I lose, driving is a privilege not a right like owning a rifle or shotgun

Do you?
You are free to use other examples where law enforcement has a legitimate interest in speaking to anyone

[G-Man]

The essential liberty of being free from government harassment just because an officer believes you are illegal.

You didn't finish the sentence.  The WHOLE sentence should read:

"The essential liberty of being free from government harassment just because an officer believes you are illegal after he has detained you during a criminal investigation".

Now you can surely see just how silly this argument is.

Unfortunately, the law doesn’t read that way.  It allows the officer to detain or arrest, without warrant, a SUSPECTED illegal, not necessarily one involved in a crime.

According to many people a lot more versed in law than I am have stated that the law does in fact state that there must be an ongoing investigation, and can not be "Hey you, walking with your kid eating ice cream, let me see ID".  Seems to me, if you are illegal, but behave, you have nothing to worry. 

[Trynt]

Hispanic looking people here legally from those other countries could also be harassed and jailed for no other reason other than looking Hispanic.

The law specifically prohibits the above.

A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICIAL OR AGENCY OF THIS STATE OR A COUNTY,
31 CITY, TOWN OR OTHER POLITICAL SUBDIVISION OF THIS STATE MAY NOT SOLELY
32 CONSIDER RACE, COLOR OR NATIONAL ORIGIN IN IMPLEMENTING THE REQUIREMENTS OF
33 THIS SUBSECTION

Subjective and vague parts of the law are impossible to enforce, and become meaningless in practice.

Its only subjective and vague to you.  If an officer has no reason to detain a Hispanic other than race, his a$$ is on the line.  This is effect an invitation to any Hispanic who is harassed to sue the offending officer and the agency for which he works. Playing the "race care" even unjustly has, in the past, been very effective.  It is unlikely a police officer would consciously embark on a course of action that could very likely ruin their career and result in them and their employer being sued.

[G-Man]

Hispanic looking people here legally from those other countries could also be harassed and jailed for no other reason other than looking Hispanic.

The law specifically prohibits the above.

A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICIAL OR AGENCY OF THIS STATE OR A COUNTY,
31 CITY, TOWN OR OTHER POLITICAL SUBDIVISION OF THIS STATE MAY NOT SOLELY
32 CONSIDER RACE, COLOR OR NATIONAL ORIGIN IN IMPLEMENTING THE REQUIREMENTS OF
33 THIS SUBSECTION

Subjective and vague parts of the law are impossible to enforce, and become meaningless in practice.

Its only subjective and vague to you.  If an officer has no reason to detain a Hispanic other than race, his a$$ is on the line.  This is effect an invitation to any Hispanic who is harassed to sue the offending officer and the agency for which he works. Playing the "race care" even unjustly has, in the past, been very effective.  It is unlikely a police officer would consciously embark on a course of action that could very likely ruin their career and result in them and their employer being sued.

And EVERY human rights group in the world will be watching verrrrry closely to pounce on the very first instance of abuse.

[Hoser]

CAN YOU FRIGGEN BELIEVE THIS!!!!!!????????? WHAT THE HE77 IS WRONG WITH OUR GOV.!!!???

You should do more research rather than depend on Fox News talking head blowhards for your information.  Do some quick research on “friend of the court” briefs and their importance in deciding a case.  You might find that Fox commentators are making a mountain out of a molehill…

 

As opposed to the CNN video, later on?  Of course everything is Bushes fault, right? 

[musclehead]

So, by enforcing OUR immigration laws and protecting OUR borders and citizens from all of the evils of illegal immigration, we could affect those other countries?



Who gives a rats a$$ ??


And the courts allowing them to add anyhting to this case is an absotule smack in the face of the American citizens.

The new law gives specific powers to the police that can infringe on legal citizens rights.  That is the main reason the DOJ is challenging the statute.  Hispanic looking people here legally from those other countries could also be harassed and jailed for no other reason other than looking Hispanic.

oh so wrong, the law was amended 4 times to specifically avoid 'profiling" of any kind.
if you want i'll go find it somewere on the web and post it here so we can all read it. unlike other bills it's only 17 pages  (double spaced)