Wether or not to cross over to the Darkside.

[srbarclay]

My Valk is sitting in my warehouse with a flat rear tire. I got my moneys worth out of the Dunlop E3 on the rear. I can get the same tire installed in town for $240 and get another 5500 miles out of it. OR.... I can spend $140. and get a Toyo Versado LX 205/65HR16 and hopefully get 25k to 30k out of it. I understand from researching the posts that braking, riding in the rain and straight acceleration is improved. My concern is riding through my Arkansas hills and curves. My tire guy also rides a motorcycle. He explained the differances in rubber on a car vs. bike tire. Also that the motorcycle tire walls are 2 ply vs. a car tires 4 ply walls. I am anxious about trying it but leary about having my wife on the back and going through a mountain curve with a car tire. HELP me to decide with your experience and feed back. Thank you

[GOOSE]

SR....you can ask a hundred guys what they think of their c-t, and i'll bet you will get a hundred different answers.  each one has it's own goods, and bads.  pick one that is right in the middle of hard and soft, and try it. the first c-t i put on, i hated.  i have two valks, and i run a altimax hp by general.  size:  205-60-16 with the nut mod.  i run 38-39 lbs. of air.   i love this set-up FOR ME.  this tire handles super here in the mountains and curves where i live.  if you will notice, most of these guys with the valks are running only about 7 or 8 different brands of tires:   all of them are true, and tried on these bikes, so just pick one and try it out.  you have to just go out and ride it........and i mean put several thousand miles on it BEFORE you give it a thumbs up, or a thumbs down.   i'll bet you will like it. 

[tybme]

I went darkside because it would get me back on the road quicker for less money. My first ride was in pouring rain - and I could tell a difference in the handling - I liked it! For the next few weeks after that I didn't like it so much. One time it slid out from under me (just a little) on a turn and another time it hit a crown in the road and threw me sideways. After letting the tire break in a while (about 3 months and 1500 miles) and finding the right PSI I now can't believe more people don't do it.
Until you experience it and spend some time evaluating it you really aren't going to know.
I am running the Goodyear triple tread 205/60/16 at 32 PSI

[valkmc]

I went darkside because it would get me back on the road quicker for less money. My first ride was in pouring rain - and I could tell a difference in the handling - I liked it! For the next few weeks after that I didn't like it so much. One time it slid out from under me (just a little) on a turn and another time it hit a crown in the road and threw me sideways. After letting the tire break in a while (about 3 months and 1500 miles) and finding the right PSI I now can't believe more people don't do it.
Until you experience it and spend some time evaluating it you really aren't going to know.
I am running the Goodyear triple tread 205/60/16 at 32 PSI

I run the same tire, I have liked it from day one. I refused to try it until I had over 40,000 on the bike. I now have 26,000 on the Goodyear. I will not go back to a MC tire on this bike, but I also understand why some don't like it. It is most definitely different....give a try, if you don't like it you can always go back...

[Daniel Meyer]

Come for the flaming death.

Stay for the cookies!



Him: "You know you're a test pilot don't you?"
Me: "Yes. Yes I do."
Him: "That doesn't bother you?"
Me: "No, not at all. I've got news for you. I LIKE being a test pilot."
Him: "But...anything could happen."
Me: "Actually, I'm counting on that. It's why I ride."

Anything could happen.

I'll see you on the road...

http://lifeisaroad.com/stories/2004/10/27/theDarkSide.html

[98valk]

put about 20 psi in that flat tire and go for a short ride on some uneven pothole patch road, generally a bad road. this will give u an idea of a car tire on similar roads. if mainly great roads, such as great hwy roads most like the CT.
YMMV

[Moonshot_1]

Whether to cross over to the Darkside is an interesting question.

When asked, the first thing I inquire is, "How much do you typically ride in a season?"

If you are a weekend rider and think a 100 mile ride is a long one and put maybe 2000 miles a year on the bike, the Darkside is definately not for you.

If putting on 10,000 miles a year on the bike is the norm and you are just getting warmed up after 300 miles on the day, then the Darkside is worth looking into.

I run a Goodyear Assurance Triple Tread. 205-60-16.
Took a bit to break in and get used to the handling difference but it was fairly easy to get used to it. After a couple weeks and 1000 miles it rode quite well and after nearly 16,000 miles it is still going strong.

Had the wife and fully loaded bike out to the Black Hills this summer. Rode out from here in Iowa.

Bike handled great on the Iron Mountain Road, Needles Hwy, Badlands, and any other road we could find. So I can attest to the tire handling the curvy roads just fine.

There is a learning curve to deal with. If you ride a lot of miles the learning curve will likely be a short one. (At least is was for me)  If you are the weekend rider and don't get a lot of miles in, It could be a long and difficult one.

The best part of this is the amount of information and experience on this site to help you.
The worse part is you don't actually get a cookie though. Apparently it is somekind of joke and bitter disappointment.

[MarkT]

Whether you ride a lot or not is not the determinant.  I ride a LOT and couldn't stand the bad handling of the GY TT 205/60-16 in all pressures from 18-40 in around 1500 miles, particularly in the mountains and twisties.  The "darkside" is a personal decision, and what works for you is not determined by what others tell you. You can only try it and decide for yourself - and you need to give it plenty of miles and different roads.  Much like bike seats - you can only know if a seat is good for you, if it's good FOR YOU. I wrote up my findings here - but this is my opinion, yours might be different - many do like it as attested here and on other boards. http://www.horseapple.com/Valkyrie/Tech_Tips/The_Darkside_-_Yea_or_Nay/the_darkside_-_yea_or_nay.html

[srbarclay]

I appreciate your replies.
I can only give my girl two bad review points.
First she gets only fair gas mileage.
Second I do not feel that she likes taking high speed sweeping or tight curves.
 SO in my decision if I want to add to the equation a tire that adds to the already unliked curve handling....................... I'm sticking with the MT.
 Thank you guys. You opinions are respected and appreciated.

[Tropic traveler]

The worse part is you don't actually get a cookie though. Apparently it is somekind of joke and bitter disappointment.

 

Now that's funny!!!!!

[Mr. Nuts]

Pro's

Price, long life, much improved braking, straighter stops, smoother takeoff with less wobble, better pulling my trailer, I liked it better for two-up riding. Liked it better for freeway or straightline cruising. Probably more puncture resistant. Loads of good tread. Better in the rain. I liked the look better from the rear.

Con's

Attracts a lot of admirers and occasional bad advice (flaming death). Sometimes lousy on rutted dirt roads or on roads with trenches from peoples studded snow tires and such (gets stuck in the ruts). Bump steer can be unnerving at first. Learning curve is required but not really hard or long. Probably not good for beginning riders. Mine (Falken) consistantly developed scary high speed wobble around 100mph (not present before or after car tire). Increased counter-steer was necessary to hold in turns but I got used to that pretty quickly. Still I think I have more fun with the bike tire on my favorite mountain roads. Had some difficulty getting mounted initially.

Took my car tire off solely because I need to spend quite a bit of time on a 3 mile long rutted dirt road. 

Don't forget to replace your valve stem...

[Alaskamike]

I bought my first Valk with a car tire on it in SC.  Sorry I don't remember the exact tire, I immediately took it 1500 miles to Florida and found I adjusted to the tire in very short order - less than 100 miles.

I rode it around town for 2-3 hours, on different type roads, and took it through some twisties as soon as I could find some.  The car tire has many things gong for it..

1.  Cost.  Those darn MC tires are expensive!    Not only are they initially double the cost, but they last only 1/3 the miles (or less).  SO if money is an issue, you are definitely way out in front with the car tire.  But...... you already know this

2.    Stability on the freeways.  Man that Car Tire tracks great on the highway.   I found I liked the feel of more rubber on the road, especially in the rain.

3.   I found the tire held very tight to the pavement when coming off the freeways onto the off ramps... I tended to take them faster than I normally would

But... the downside in my experience

1.   I do think that rear spline lube / gasket changes should be done at every tire change… and probably at least every 10,000 miles although others might disagree.  Hard for me to take the rear tire off if I don’t have to change the tire anyway.  Lazy I guess.

2.    Uneven roads, potholes, grooves and crowns …and those dreaded grates on some bridges.   Can throw you a bit if you don’t have a good grip on the handlebars.  Of course this is true with any bike and any tire but the jump is more pronounced with the car tire.    

3.   When you go into a turn, you have to put more pressure on the handlebars than I would with the MC tire.  It tracks very well, no problem there, but you lean and push at the same time

Lastly….  I do not believe those who say it is safer somehow with a MC tire.     Just my 2 cents, but my experiences have not shown a safety hazard in any way with the car tire.

I would cross the country on a car tire, no problem.   I did switch back to a MC tire, personal choice.  But it was not because the car tire does not perform well, it just is a better fit me and my particular riding style.      Good luck!


  

[Challenger]

Here is my story on the car tire. I put a GY TT on the STD. (got tired of mid season tire changes)  I took it of after 5000 miles because I did not like the increased input in curves while riding solo. Blew a tire on the I/S and was leaving next day for vac. installed the GY just to get by. Two up and all the gear on the I/S was a complete dream on the slab. My wife loves the ride and the handling difference is not as pronounced as it was on the STD. 20,000 on that tire now. The I/S will always have car tire and the STD will always have a MC tire,  just my opinion.   

[papa bear]

Put the Goodyear Triple Tread on my Tourer at 24,000 miles. The bike now has 49,000 on it, the tire over 25,000 and still has about 10,000 left in it. The bike does handle different, But all I can say about the tire is WOW! I'll never go back to an MC tire.

[Walküre]

Took my first rides on my new C/T yesterday. About 50 miles on my unloaded "tourer", then another 50 miles pulling my trailer.

First impressions? I know it's going to take some more miles, before I'm really comfortable, or make a final decision, but so far, I'm liking it. Was as if the trailer wasn't there at all, so I'll comment on just the tire.

My right wrist has always gotten strained very quickly (within a few miles), riding almost any motorcycle (old school injury, I think). I always figured it was throttle, and it never got "bad", just was there, so I lived with it. Not there with the C/T. Now I'm wondering if it has something to do with a combination of steering/throttle/vibration, because I find I have VERY little input when riding straight-line, which most of my riding is. I think what's missing is the constant, very minor corrections, that I have with almost every motorcycle. I'll know more, when I ride more. I just know that I have a much lighter touch on the throttle hand, than almost all other bikes in the past. More input, just less "pressure".

I have to be on the ball, on turns from a stop sign. I'm sure that will go away, with more experience, but not quite used to the steer/lean instead of lean to turn. Reminds me vaguely of the side-car I rode once. Similar feel...

60 mph sweeper - felt great! Much more input needed from me, and much more feedback from the bike, but I LIKE that feel - makes me feel in charge, instead of just following the bike. That reminded me of the old Beemer R-50S I got to ride years ago.

Couple times I found myself over-steering. Almost like it takes more to "break" the tire over (off the flat, onto the shoulder of the tire), in a slow turn, but once over, it likes to continue to roll over, just a bit...hope that makes sense. Drug a peg, which was the first, for me on the Valk. Might be the small amount the bike is lower, due to smaller circumference, but think it's the lean necessary. Will know more with more experience.

All in all, I like it enough, to keep the tire on for a while. I bought the tire "used", with a few thousand miles already on it. Not sure if that was wise, as I read about the tire breaking in on the bike. My sidewalls are probably already broken in, and on a car. Doesn't appear to affect anything, but since this is my first car tire, it's possible some of the things I'm feeling, are a result of that. It will probably take another C/T to know that. Is it "different"? Yeah, but I knew that going in. Is it "bad" different? No, I don't think so. It has somewhat put the fun back into riding. I don't like riding motorcycles, because they are motorcycles. I like the FEEL of RIDING motorcycles! And right now, the feel is back!!

Scott - it would be nice if there was someone around you, that has gone darkside, that would let you put a few miles on their bike. I was hoping to try it out, before I got one, but it didn't work out that way. And I don't mind trying it, as I only have $50 into the change, plus, I bought the bike with 9,000 miles this last summer, and put 3,000 on it, so knew I REALLY wanted to bust into the rear, and check splines, etc. So, I'm only out $50, if I decide it's not for me. And my labor is CHEAP, when it comes to MY stuff. I'll at least keep the tire, until I put another 8,000 miles on it, at which time I'll want to check the splines, etc, again, anyway, and then put myself on a strict 10,000 mile check routine.

Again, MOST of my riding is straight-line, good highway/roadway riding. Not that I don't LIKE the alternative, but here in central Indiana, a hill is 2 feet high, and a mountain is 5 feet high. And a twisty is a right at the light...

Next summer I am planning a two or three week trip, doing some serious cross-country traveling. At least, that's the plan...

R

[srbarclay]

Well........ I did it.
I put a Toyo Versado lx 205/65R16.
I really like it. It is different but good.
I'll post more experienced opinions after some miles on it.

[fudgie]

I read all CT posts for 2 yrs before I did it. Wish I woulda done it then. My 1st ride I was disappointed on the resualts. I found no cons like everyone was saying. Going from a 200 metz to a CT was no change. I love the CT. I found the riding has improved with the CT. My guess is that some that dont like it cause of the tire itself. Just like in a mc tire that you dont like. You get another brand. I'm sticking with the Hankook.

[Walküre]

Just like in a mc tire that you dont like. You get another brand. I'm sticking with the Hankook.

First off, Scott - glad you like it! Hopefully, it will only get better! How did that particular tire fit? Did you do any mods, and are you riding one-up, two-up, etc? And isn't the tread "different" from side to side? What made you decide on that particular tire? We always like to hear particulars...

Fudge - Good luck with finding another Hankook K106! I finally had to give up, after trying 3 or 4 different places then finding out they really DIDN'T have what they said they did. I ended up with the General Tire Altimax HP, but will surely try something different next time, and maybe each time...

[2qmedic]

Ahhh, de car tyre...
Yep, read all bout it fer year or so. THen I purchsed a GYTT, 38 psi.
It took about 1200 miles for me and the tire to get settelled in together. It is different and takes a little to get use to just like anything else
Pros; fantastic in the rain,
        more stopping power,
        lower cost,
        it last and last and last many more miles than a M/C tire,
        on corners, the rear is planted to the pavement compaired to the M/C tire,
        I can ride just as fast if not faster with the car tiire in corners with more confidence.
Cons; little wobble at speeds of 100plus (higher air psi decreases this),
        does have some bump steer (use to bother me but not any more),
        it does track some in ruts (o-well),
        little more countersteer pressure (no biggie)
        I now have to tell others
"yep its a car tire, whats that, flamming death???, I don't know of any one who has had this "flamming death" event happen to them, I researched it, I ride it, I'm happy. So untill you have ridden a C/T for 5-10k miles then please don't condem me for my choice thank you.

Yep, just don't see going back to a M/C tire.
but it's an indivual choice.

That being said, welcome to the dark side

[fudgie]

Just like in a mc tire that you dont like. You get another brand. I'm sticking with the Hankook.

Fudge - Good luck with finding another Hankook K106! I finally had to give up, after trying 3 or 4 different places then finding out they really DIDN'T have what they said they did. I ended up with the General Tire Altimax HP, but will surely try something different next time, and maybe each time...

called my Hankook guy this morning and he found no K-106 but had a lot of Ventus. I can prob get 5 more years out of the K-106 now. Maybe they-Hankook- will have something better by then. did find some on ebay a few weeks ago. Slightly used.

[Rams]

I have absolutely no experience with this issue but was wondering, are you guys running tires with white walls or do these tires come in blackwall?

Ron

[Bone]

White walls used to be only on one side of the tire.
Of course no one can see both sides at once 

[Tundra]

I wear cinder blocks on my feet instead of shoes. They handle just as well once you get used to them. I save lot's of money on shoes

[valkmc]

I wear cinder blocks on my feet instead of shoes. They handle just as well once you get used to them. I save lot's of money on shoes

cinderblocks are made out of cement, shoes are made of leather and rubber

Ct are made of rubber, mc tires are made of rubber

comparison does not quite seem the same

[Walküre]

I wear cinder blocks on my feet instead of shoes. They handle just as well once you get used to them. I save lot's of money on shoes

Last guy I knew, with cinder block shoes, is swimmin' wit da fish!!

 

True, not a good comparison - a better comparison is having Pirelli's on my sports cars, and truck tires on my truck. My Valk is a truck, by comparison. If I was one of those people, that only rides my bike on the twisties, I'm pretty sure I'd be inclined to always have a MC tire on it. But, I ride it back and forth to work, almost daily, rain or shine, if it's not too cold to ride. Thus, the CT will be perfect. It gives me a decent ride on the twists, but a great ride on the highway.

I think most agree, the CT is not for everyone. And, I think if a good motorcycle tire, was $80, and got 15K miles, consistently, there would be a LOT fewer CT's in use. Again, that's opinion. It's just that I've never heard anyone say that they PREFER the handling over the MC tire. Just that they aren't that far off, that they offset the cost/wear of the MC tire. I feel it's a trade off. The "peculiarities" of the CT are easily adjusted to, compared to the double+ cost of the bike tire, and the probable 3 times the wear. Or, alternatively, if the CT cost was just 10% less than a bike tire, and only got 11K miles at best, would anyone purposely put on a CT over the bike tire?

Again, MY OPINION...

R

[fudgie]

I perfer the handling over the MC tire.  I'm for more secure in riding with a CT then I ever was with the Metzlers.

[art]

My last c/t was a toyo an I got 26000 miles out of it an it could have gone another 2000 .I am running a 195 -55 -16 .Less bump stear an cost me $75.Go back to a mc tire ? No way for a tire that will go three times as far for less than half the price I'm staying with the c/t .I am now on my fourth c/t

[2qmedic]

Art,

just to verify, did you run a 205? and then go to the 195? Is the bump steer the only difference you noticed? It seems like it may handle a little more like a mc tire being thinner width, but also have the same height, it this correct?

[bigdog99]

i too like Fudgie wound up with a Hankook k106. got it before i knew anything about the dark side. i know i have 16k on mine right now. i dont know how long iot will last, but i am not sure why you wouyld pay the mc price for a tire when a $98 tire lasts this long.
oh, and i am sure Fudgie will tell you, we can still make them spark in the twisties. 

[2qmedic]

I currently have a 205-60-16 GYTT, its glued in the corners and I make sparks all the time!!!

[srbarclay]

I went with the Toyo Versado LX due to research on this board and thru the net. This tire is black walls on both side. It's a non directional tire but yet it has a right & left side.
My tire guy rides too. We talked about squared sidewalls verses slightly rounded sidewalls, and overall handling. This is the tire that we came up with.
 The Versado is for BMW & Mercedes sports cars.  After I got the tire I put it on my counter at work and wobbled it from side to side, as if going thru curves. It transitioned nicely without having to break a plane. I have about 3/16" clearance from my swing arm. I did the nut cage mod for the simple reason that I didn't want to rip up a tire if I had my wife on the back and hit a dip at high speed and bottomed out the shocks. And no, she is not heavy. She's about 145 and I'm 230. I used carriage bolts. I put the head under the fender and lock nutted it behind my saddle bags.
 The down side was that the motorcycle shop broke a header bolt and left off a nut on the other side header.
 My wife said that she enjoys the ride more now. Also that the ride is smoother and easier on her. I have noticed that I don't hardly feel the unions in the road.
 Overall I really do like the new CT. Now I am starting to play with the tire pressure to find my sweet spot.

[2qmedic]

Welcome to the club!!!

Ride safe and enjoy

[Paxton]

NEXEN N5000 205/65/16 ($89 out the door).

I know this is an old post, but it covers all the angles on the topic. I just wanted to share that the inexpensive c/t am running on the Valk
@28 PSI is way softer and more pleasurable than my more expensive c/t.

I just installed a "nicer" and more expensive tire on the VTX @28 PSI. Because it is a better tire, the sidewalls are stiffer making the ride a bit harsh. 

IMHO, most any c/t would be good for any motorcycle. Even inexpensive tires have to carry the weight of a car.
In my case, I'd go back to the "lesser-quality-tire" if and when I ever run out of thread.

just sayin'

[Jess from VA]

I currently have a 205-60-16 GYTT, its glued in the corners and I make sparks all the time!!!

 

I have 30K on one and about 7K on the other Interstate, both 205-60 GYTTs, and you can go like the hammers of hell thru the most technical twisties and mountains with them (or do nice tight slow turns in the gas station) (after a few week learning curve). 

My aluminum floorboards don't make sparks, they just grind off. 

The one with 30K still has good tread (prolly 4-5K more) and I like the ride better than the one with 7K on it.  And with 30K it still kicks ass over the braking, wet/sand/gravel road, freeway tracking, abilities of a bike tire.  Though it will hop around on uneven surfaces occasionally.

[Gryphon Rider]

I appreciate your replies.
I can only give my girl two bad review points.
First she gets only fair gas mileage.
Second I do not feel that she likes taking high speed sweeping or tight curves.
 SO in my decision if I want to add to the equation a tire that adds to the already unliked curve handling....................... I'm sticking with the MT.
 Thank you guys. You opinions are respected and appreciated.

Is "your girl" your wife or your Valk?  My car gets better gas mileage when I drive than when my wife does too!  And that's her only bad review point too!

[sugerbear]

I appreciate your replies.
I can only give my girl two bad review points.
First she gets only fair gas mileage.
Second I do not feel that she likes taking high speed sweeping or tight curves.
 SO in my decision if I want to add to the equation a tire that adds to the already unliked curve handling....................... I'm sticking with the MT.
 Thank you guys. You opinions are respected and appreciated.

"Second I do not feel that she likes taking high speed sweeping or tight curves"

sounds like worn shock bushings and or worn shocks or springs.
mine loves high speed sweepers, rock steady.
i have a car tire on back, have ridden your neck of the woods, tail of the dragon. florida flats, D.C. traffic, and glacier park mountains. all with wife on back and loaded bags(i have an I/S)

i would suggest putting a mt tire back on and make sure everything else is good, then try a ct if you want.

Oh ya, the mileage thing. try to stay under 3000 rpm and see what the mileage is. if 34 or better, your good to go.

[Sigrún]

Oh ya, the mileage thing. try to stay under 3000 rpm and see what the mileage is. if 34 or better, your good to go.

See that's the hard part right there.....

[Gryphon]

I understand about getting better gas mileage by staying under 3K, but what am I supposed to do when I get out of the city limits?  The dragon likes to run.

[SANDMAN5]

I run a GYTT 205-60. Over 26,000 and plenty left. I'm not a habitual
peg dragger, but they touch down a few times a year. Thinking about
trying a 55 series next time....quicker acceleration but more rpm's at
speed. I don't do long distance highway rides.....but only because of
the time/money thing. YMMV

[Hoser]

I get 20k miles out of my mt, since it fits in with my milage per year and my maintenance schedule, and I have never felt the need for more milage per tire, and the way the my mc tire performs like I want,  I have had no need to try a CT.  I'm sure they are everything that has been covered in this thread, and opinions provided by great knowlegable folks, if you are so inclined, try it, ride it, decide. No ones decision but yours.  Happy motoring.    Hoser