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fudgie
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Better to be judged by 12, then carried by 6.
Huntington Indiana
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« Reply #1 on: November 30, 2010, 06:42:50 PM » |
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Helmets are about 37 percent effective in preventing motorcycle deathsSo I have a 63% chance of surviving without a helmet? Reading thru it seems more deaths with helmets. 
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 Now you're in the world of the wolves... And we welcome all you sheep... VRCC-#7196 VRCCDS-#0175 DTR PGR
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fudgie
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Posts: 10613
Better to be judged by 12, then carried by 6.
Huntington Indiana
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« Reply #2 on: November 30, 2010, 06:45:01 PM » |
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Never question. Your more apt to get in a car accident then on a bike. Put your car seat in the middle of the seat.....................
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 Now you're in the world of the wolves... And we welcome all you sheep... VRCC-#7196 VRCCDS-#0175 DTR PGR
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FLAVALK
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« Reply #3 on: November 30, 2010, 06:51:41 PM » |
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It's normal to think that way, I did when my kids were small. Then I came to the conclusion that when it's you time, it's your time. Don't matter if your riding a bike or a donkey or sitting on the couch...... However, you may expedite the process by having no respect for life and keep pushing the envelope in everything you do. The good lord will give you an occasional pass, he certainly has me, but after that, yer on yer own 
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« Last Edit: November 30, 2010, 06:57:12 PM by FLAVALK »
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Live From Sunny Winter Springs Florida via Huntsville Alabama
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GreenLantern57
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Posts: 1543
Hail to the king baby!
Rock Hill, SC
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« Reply #4 on: November 30, 2010, 06:53:56 PM » |
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How many accidents were caused by cagers? Did I miss that one?
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Duckwheat
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« Reply #5 on: November 30, 2010, 07:17:33 PM » |
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Helmets are about 37 percent effective in preventing motorcycle deathsSo I have a 63% chance of surviving without a helmet? Reading thru it seems more deaths with helmets.  Did you skip math Fudgie? I will try to explain it to you. Out of 100 dead guys, 37 of them would have lived with a helmet. The other 67 are still dead. Being without a helmet did help you. The overall number of total dead has not risen much on annual basis since 1975. I would be willing to bet there are a lot more bikes on the road now vs 1975. DW
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RoadKill
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« Reply #6 on: November 30, 2010, 07:20:41 PM » |
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Life is too short. Ride or stay on the couch..Either way it's gonna end. crap happens, and EVENTUALLY it will happen to all of us. I'd rather go out knowing I LIVED life rather than not 'living' just to prolong the inevitable. I intend to make the most of the short time I have Riding makes me alot more bearable to every one else too! 
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Willow
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Posts: 16630
Excessive comfort breeds weakness. PttP
Olathe, KS
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« Reply #7 on: November 30, 2010, 07:28:33 PM » |
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Interesting statistics. With our first kid making his arrival in about a week, it makes me question why I ride all over... It's a legitimate question, but make your decision based on what's real. That piece presents some valid statistics, but it's much more propaganda than simple information.
Accept that riding a motorcycle in traffic is much more dangerous than negotiating the byways on four wheels. Air travel, incidentally is even more safe.
Decide whether you can accept the perceived risk for the known benefit. Make the best decision you can and no one will think the less of you. Well, I guess we can't really speak for everyone, so we can't promise no one.
Life is terminal. No one gets out alive.
Someone once used a clever line in a movie. "Every man dies. Not every man really lives."
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NITRO
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« Reply #8 on: November 30, 2010, 07:39:54 PM » |
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Interesting statistics. With our first kid making his arrival in about a week, it makes me question why I ride all over... Someone once used a clever line in a movie. "Every man dies. Not every man really lives." Too bad that guy you're quoting is an anti-semite! I get what you're all saying. I won't stop riding, but it does make me question it for sure. I'll likely slow down a bit and save my highway pegs in the process.
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When in doubt, ride.
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NITRO
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« Reply #9 on: November 30, 2010, 07:41:30 PM » |
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How many accidents were caused by cagers? Did I miss that one?
Look for the single/multiple vehicle stats. Not all mutliple vehicle accidents would be caused by the cage, but I would be willing to bet that most are.
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When in doubt, ride.
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Duckwheat
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« Reply #10 on: November 30, 2010, 07:54:03 PM » |
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Quick search, in 2000 over 13,000 people died from falling. That is worse than riding a bike. So no one get on a ladder or use stairs, they were the most lethal.  DW
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MacDragon
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Posts: 1970
My first Valk VRCC# 32095
Middleton, Mass.
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« Reply #11 on: November 30, 2010, 08:18:54 PM » |
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We, as Valk riders, represent 44% of the total deaths with Cruisers over 1400cc... at least it's less than 50% ... the other 56% are smaller rides. Cruiser/standard 0-1000cc 380 26% 10001-1400cc 424 29% 1400cc>645 44% 1,463 total. Not overly comforting... but I can live with it.
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 Ride fast and take chances... uh, I mean... ride safe folks. Patriot Guard Riders
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DarkMeister
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« Reply #12 on: December 01, 2010, 02:49:04 AM » |
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Looking at the breakdown by age, methinks most of us in this forum are safe. 
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« Reply #13 on: December 01, 2010, 05:26:56 AM » |
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Interesting statistics. With our first kid making his arrival in about a week, it makes me question why I ride all over... It's a legitimate question, but make your decision based on what's real. That piece presents some valid statistics, but it's much more propaganda than simple information.
Accept that riding a motorcycle in traffic is much more dangerous than negotiating the byways on four wheels. Air travel, incidentally is even more safe.
Decide whether you can accept the perceived risk for the known benefit. Make the best decision you can and no one will think the less of you. Well, I guess we can't really speak for everyone, so we can't promise no one.
Life is terminal. No one gets out alive.
Someone once used a clever line in a movie. "Every man dies. Not every man really lives." And to add... how situationally aware are you? You can ride a long, long time by seeing and anticipating... there are many bikers with 500K miles and more without a crash... it has to be more than 'luck'. Sidenote: My wife rode all over the mountains in North Vietnam... did great... doesn't want to ride in Singapore traffic... I agree with here... she does not have enough situational awareness to be really competent in urban traffic... and you need to be really competent. The wife in Vietnam: 
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Willow
Administrator
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Posts: 16630
Excessive comfort breeds weakness. PttP
Olathe, KS
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« Reply #14 on: December 01, 2010, 05:42:16 AM » |
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Daniel Meyer
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Posts: 5493
Author. Adventurer. Electrician.
The State of confusion.
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« Reply #15 on: December 01, 2010, 06:38:28 AM » |
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Thirty percent of fatally injured motorcycle drivers in 2009 had a blood alcohol concentration (BAC) at or above 0.08 percent; in single-vehicle crashes this was 42 percent. Fifty-four percent of motorcycle drivers killed at night (9pm-6am) in 2009 had BACs at or above 0.08 percent. Don't drink and ride.
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CUAgain, Daniel Meyer 
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Kaiser
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« Reply #16 on: December 01, 2010, 06:40:56 AM » |
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Did you skip math Fudgie? I will try to explain it to you. Out of 100 dead guys, 37 of them would have lived with a helmet. The other 67 are still dead. Being without a helmet did help you.
The overall number of total dead has not risen much on annual basis since 1975. I would be willing to bet there are a lot more bikes on the road now vs 1975.
DW
DW - just to bust your chops, 37 + 67 does not equal 100. Who skipped math?  FWIW, just yesterday I pulled some stats for our county here in FL. Since 2005, there has been an average increase of 10.2% per year in motorcycle registrations.
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Quicksilver
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« Reply #18 on: December 01, 2010, 07:14:24 AM » |
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If the question is, are you more likely to die or be injured in a motorcycle accident than in a car accident, we know the answer is yes. The number of accidents will likely increase with the number of riders, of course. The demographics for the age of the population in the US, show that there has been a substantial increase in the number of people over the age of 50 in the last 5 years. These people are the ones who can afford larger motorcycles, and have more free time for recreational riding. It is not surprising then that motorcycle accidents are increasing in number and killing more riders in the 50 plus age group. Harley Davidson sells over 200,000 machines a year, over 5 years thats a million new machines on the road added to all the years before. If we just look at numbers we can say it's a lot safer riding a Valkyrie than any HD. There are far fewer accidents each year with Valkyries. It must simply be the skill level and maturity of those who ride such a fine machine. 
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1997 Standard  
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Jay
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« Reply #19 on: December 01, 2010, 07:31:41 AM » |
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Quick search, in 2000 over 13,000 people died from falling. That is worse than riding a bike. So no one get on a ladder or use stairs, they were the most lethal.  DW So, how many of these people were drunk? Were they wearing a helmet?
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Duckwheat
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« Reply #20 on: December 01, 2010, 01:05:58 PM » |
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DW - just to bust your chops, 37 + 67 does not equal 100. Who skipped math? Duly noted 
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alph
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« Reply #21 on: December 01, 2010, 01:18:29 PM » |
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So, you're telling me I’m on my own this summer? First those two dogs of yours, now a kid!!
When you were single, boinking all those hoties, there was the fear of catching AIDS. When you were riding to work in the dark, I would often get worried about you hitting a deer. Since you're a teacher, I’m worried about that one psycho kid with a gun. When you get older, it'll be something like cancer. There will always be something that will threaten your life.
After watching my father die of lung cancer, I would rather die of a heart attack, or a cycle accident, any day.
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Promote world peace, ban all religion. Ride Safe, Ride Often!!  
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Alaskamike
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Posts: 101
gittin her done!
Wasilla, Alaska
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« Reply #22 on: December 01, 2010, 04:49:37 PM » |
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This is an interesting thread (since I'm under the weather today - have time to read and goof off!) It is an issue I have thought about many times. Riding a bike these past 40+ years I have had a few close calls. Not only that, but recently my wife of 40 years has decided she wants to ride her own, and get off my back  (got her a trike) and also my 32 y.o. son is getting a bike in the Spring. My 28 y.o. daughter got a bike last year, and several friends in their 50's and 60's have begun riding again after many years off a bike - somewhat due to wanting to tour with us. I tell all of them the same things 1. Riding a motorcycle is dangerous. 2. You can mitigate somewhat that danger by Practice riding ALLOT. I am convinced that occasional riders, those who run to the store once in a while, leave the bike sit for months at a time, and end up with 3,000 miles on a 5 y.o. bike are always going to be at great risk on the road NEVER assume what any other vehicle is going to do, no matter what their turn signal says (you can guess how I know). Drive like everyone is out to kill you. If you are new, and riding with experienced people, still ride at your skill and comfort level. Just because a group of bikers pass a semi on a blind curve, doesn’t mean you have to ‘catch –up’ with them and prove anything. Wait to pass till you are safe and comfortable. 3. Remember riding is a SKILL. Many of us take for granted adjusting to road conditions, hard breaking, controlling a slide, powering up out of a curve; but new riders have to learn these things till they become second nature. Finally, many years ago I moved to a State that had mandatory rider’s endorsement on licenses and even though I’d ridden all my life I had to take the advanced course and pass a riding test. I was frankly appalled at the skill level of the riders there. But, I met two guys taking the course in their late 70’s riding full dressed out Wings. They told me they take the course every year just as riding season opens up to freshen up their skills and get comfortable on the bikes again since they take a long (2,000mi+) trip together every summer. I tell ya, that makes allot of sense. I really respected those two crusty ol’ men. I ride because I love it. I know it’s dangerous (see #1). My kids know they will have to pry the grips out of my old wizened hands If I am blessed to live that long. Life is a risk…. Only God knows our end. In the meantime, I’m gonna ride!
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"If you don't ride in the rain.... you don't ride" 
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FLAVALK
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« Reply #23 on: December 01, 2010, 06:26:47 PM » |
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Interesting statistics. With our first kid making his arrival in about a week, it makes me question why I ride all over... It's a legitimate question, but make your decision based on what's real. That piece presents some valid statistics, but it's much more propaganda than simple information.
Accept that riding a motorcycle in traffic is much more dangerous than negotiating the byways on four wheels. Air travel, incidentally is even more safe.
Decide whether you can accept the perceived risk for the known benefit. Make the best decision you can and no one will think the less of you. Well, I guess we can't really speak for everyone, so we can't promise no one.
Life is terminal. No one gets out alive.
Someone once used a clever line in a movie. "Every man dies. Not every man really lives." And to add... how situationally aware are you? You can ride a long, long time by seeing and anticipating... there are many bikers with 500K miles and more without a crash... it has to be more than 'luck'. Sidenote: My wife rode all over the mountains in North Vietnam... did great... doesn't want to ride in Singapore traffic... I agree with here... she does not have enough situational awareness to be really competent in urban traffic... and you need to be really competent. The wife in Vietnam:  You nailed it, situational awareness is key. To have it is to avoid most accidents. Not to say you won't have any, but you will certainly minimize the chances
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Live From Sunny Winter Springs Florida via Huntsville Alabama
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GreenLantern57
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Posts: 1543
Hail to the king baby!
Rock Hill, SC
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« Reply #24 on: December 01, 2010, 06:47:17 PM » |
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Wonder how many of the ones over 40 were on a bike for the first time ever? Friend of ours was going through the empty nest syndrome. Went all out and bought a Road King, HD - chaps, jacket, gloves, helmet. You know,the whole deal. Never had a motorcyle before, rode that summer 4 times and sold the whole thing 4 months later. Glad they sold before they became a statistic.
There is a lot to be said for experience.
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NITRO
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« Reply #25 on: December 01, 2010, 08:11:38 PM » |
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Besides actually riding, I realized that there's much more to being a Valkyrie owner. Working on my cycle, meeting other Valkyrie folks (and riders in general), seeing new places, enjoying time together with my wife on the back, meeting new people when buy/selling parts, and so many other great experiences. It is these things that are just as important as riding itself.
I spent time thinking tonight about all of the experiences and friends I wouldn't have without my Valks. Hell, I even made the connection that I wouldn't have a pasta roller if it wasn't for the Valk (thanks Alph!). So I guess if it's dangerous to ride, then so be it. I'll do what I can to sway the stats in my favor.
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When in doubt, ride.
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alph
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« Reply #26 on: December 01, 2010, 10:01:58 PM » |
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I even made the connection that I wouldn't have a pasta roller if it wasn't for the Valk (thanks Alph!). Still waiting for that Fettuccini Alfredo dinner!! (Chris makes the white sauce just like my father use to) By the way, got a new recipe for pizza dough, what cha doing this weekend??? Nick says it's awesome!! This dough doesn't work well for panzerotti's, still working on that one..... I’ll have to modify the old recipe.
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Promote world peace, ban all religion. Ride Safe, Ride Often!!  
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MP
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Posts: 5532
1997 Std Valkyrie and 2001 red/blk I/S w/sidecar
North Dakota
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« Reply #27 on: December 02, 2010, 10:03:46 AM » |
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Yeah! What Alph said, Nitro! How come when we were all there to eat at your place, you did not use the homemade pasta? LOL  Am awaiting news on your new addition! Just a couple weeks to go! Good luck to Steph and you! MP
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 "Ridin' with Cycho"
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Fathertime
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« Reply #28 on: December 02, 2010, 10:14:14 AM » |
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Interesting statistics. With our first kid making his arrival in about a week, it makes me question why I ride all over... Someone once used a clever line in a movie. "Every man dies. Not every man really lives." Too bad that guy you're quoting is an anti-semite! And that has WHAT to do with the thread?
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alph
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« Reply #29 on: December 02, 2010, 11:26:19 AM » |
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And that has WHAT to do with the thread?
that's just what we normally do around here!!  we'll take a guy's threat, then turn it into a food argument, like, who's father makes the best pasta sauce, or who's going to hell, or is it the republicans fault, or the democrats!!  then it turns into a name calling free for all!! saying something to degrade the author, and put down his up bringing..... making fun of his cycle 'cause it's not the pretty color scheme of black and red...... and then the serious insaults such as, "your mother rides a v-twin....." or "your daddy drives a davidson!!" those are some lowwww blows buddy!! i'll tell you!! those hurt!!! (by the way, this is all typed with tongue in cheek.....) what were we typing about????? 
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Promote world peace, ban all religion. Ride Safe, Ride Often!!  
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Alaskamike
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Posts: 101
gittin her done!
Wasilla, Alaska
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« Reply #30 on: December 02, 2010, 08:07:49 PM » |
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democrates....... I think.....
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"If you don't ride in the rain.... you don't ride" 
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Rocketman
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« Reply #31 on: December 06, 2010, 09:08:14 AM » |
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They told me they take the course every year just as riding season opens up to freshen up their skills and get comfortable on the bikes again since they take a long (2,000mi+) trip together every summer. I tell ya, that makes allot of sense. I really respected those two crusty ol’ men.
I'd need a refresher too, if my riding seasons were one month every two years or so like ya'll... Seriously: That sounds like a good idea. To address the study/conclusions: Statistics are VERY easy to manipulate, and very hard to understand. Whenever human factors come in, they become even harder. Every human is different, every crash situation is different, and every pre-crash (or pre-avoided-crash, for that matter) is also different. People with an agenda (pro-helmet, anti-helmet, pro-motorcycle, anti-motorcycle, pro-all-black, pro-two-tone) can take any data and make a statement about it that makes it sound like it supports their position. In order to form an opinion, you need more than just the "sound bite", or "data bite". You need the whole story, and an understanding of the limitations of the data. Very few people have that kind of time to devote to a particular issue, so we ask for someone to analyze it for us and boil it down, but the cost is that we very likely end up having even less understanding than we did before, because we have just as little actual knowledge, but now we THINK we know! To boil THAT down: 5 out of every 4 people don't understand statistics. EDIT: It's even worse than I thought. Now that I look at the link, I see that they didn't make any attempt to qualify results with the most basic of mitigating factors. They point out that deaths in large displacement motorcycles is rising, and show zero deaths in >1400cc for the year 1985. How many production motorcycles could you buy in 1985 with a displacement >1400cc?? How about miles ridden in any of those situations that they point out? Experience as a mitigating factor? I could go on and on, but when they don't even use the first order data of motorcycles registered to qualify results, I stopped caring what they said. I hate when studies try to read too much into insufficient data.
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« Last Edit: December 06, 2010, 09:50:03 AM by Rocketman »
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