The .357 Magnum : An All Around Survival Round

[98valk]

http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig10/rawles5.1.1.html


which he doesn't address is .357 rifles. does that help even more?
always thought about getting a .357 rifle.
thoughts, since I'm no gun expert.

[Alaskamike]

I beleive the 300 win mag is the best all around rifle.  Why?  You can get almost an unlimited variety of loads for it, so you can hunt from small game all the way up to Grizzly, they are common (hence rounds are common and easily attainable) and with a bolt action rifle and scope accurate and usable easily to 200 yds.

I've seen one take out a Moose and beleive me it will stop most anything with the right shot.

The 357 is as good a pistol round as any out there for all around stopping power, but you need to practice with it to deal with the kick if you ever expect to hit with successive rounds. 

[RTaz]

My favorite....with out a doubt...

[Westernbiker]

I have a Rugar 357 mag and a S&W 44 mag and I love both of them. I don't think I have a favorite but I may lean just a bit to the 44 only because it feels better in my hand. Both have a good kick, of course the 44 kicks more. With some practice you will be fine with either but it does take practice. I can empty the 44 at 10 yards with in 5 seconds (I know this is not a record) and have a group no bigger than 8 inches. If you are looking for speed and power I would guess a semi 40 cal. would be my choice. One thing about revolvers though, they don't jam. But you have less shots too. If you are leaning towards the 357 you can't go wrong.

[Dubsvalk]

I carried a 357 mag years ago as a cop.  Still have and love the pistol to this day.  It is my favorite pistol and the closest one to me when at home.
Bernie

[Pete]

Yes the extra barrel length in the rifle helps the ballistics of the .357 (as it does on any pistol caliber round).

If you had a .357 pistol and ammo, it may make sense to have a rifle in the same caliber.

Just remember it is still a pistol round (although faster in a rifle) and should not be used on game(??) that it is not appropriate for.

[Jess from VA]

The .357 mag is a great revolver cartridge.... it still has the MOST/HIGHEST documented one-shot stops from a handgun (in 125gr JHP) in history, but this fact is skewed.... since the reason for the number is simply because more cops nationwide carried a 4" (or 6") S & W Model 19(blue)/66 (stainless) .357 than any other gun... for about 30 years.  And... cops shoot people for a living, whereas for the rest of us, it's just a hobby.  (LOL)

Still, in a 4 or 6 inch .357 revolver, you have one of the finest defensive handguns ever made.  And as a firearms novice, you are much better off with a double action revolver than any kind or caliber of auto pistol.  And, if you like the idea of having a rifle/handgun combo in the same caliber, from say a survivalist point of view, a .357 lever gun like the Marlin Model 1894C is not a bad choice (but there are definitely better choices).  It will take a deer IF you get very good shot placement from not too far off.

I have several .44 Mag revolvers, and I got a Marlin .44 mag lever gun 1894, and it is nice, but more of a collector than a practical rifle.  Yes, both the .357 and .44 mags are man stoppers, and the ballistics go up nicely on longer saddle/lever gun rifle barrels of 20 inches.  But, more traditional rifle calibers, in bottleneck cartridges, are SO much better and more versatile.  In my opinion, the utility in having one box of bullets to feed both your pistol and rifle is far outweighed by the enhanced utility you can get from a traditional rifle... say a .223 (5.56 Nato) or .308 (7.62 Nato), among others... even though you now have two boxes of cartridges. 

A revolver cartridge in a lever gun with a 20" bbl, extends your effective range to say 100-150 meters, perhaps more with a scope that is dialed in.  But your traditional rifle cartridges are good to 300 to 600 meters (and beyond), and retain considerably more stopping power (velocity) at the end of longer travel than handgun cartridges fired from rifles.   That is, handgun cartridges in a 20 inch bbl are really moving from the bbl to 75 meters, but slow quickly at farther distances.   

Like with any other tool, you need to ask yourself.."what rifle should I get for what objectives?"  If your goal is to have an all purpose survival rifle on an economy basis, the .22 LR is a likely choice.  A .22 magnum is also a great choice.

If you want to be able to deal with two-legged zombies, tangos, rioters, or the walking dead in numbers, then you want a semiauto rifle (in a rifle caliber) with 30 round box mags, and a vest that carries eight 30 round mags, and auto pistol and multiple mags for that as well. 

Like this:





Even on a budget, you would be far better served for self defense with a model 1946 Soviet/Chinese SKS in 7.62 X39 with a non detachable 20 round box mag, and chest pack with 20 round stripper clips, than a .357 lever gun with 9 round tubular mag under the bbl.





It's all about the right tool for the particular job.  What is your purpose?



 

[98valk]

any clip, empty or not and larger than 10 rounds is illegal in Nazi Jersey even if u don't have gun that the mag fits.

[Jess from VA]

All advice above is still relevant... you can get 10-rd AR15 mags.

The Marlin 1985C is a good reliable firearm, and allowed in NJ.

I would not live in NJ or in any other people's republic, under any circumstance.   

You've seen this, of course.   

http://www.thenewamerican.com/index.php/usnews/crime/5350-man-jailed-in-new-jersey-for-gun-he-legally-owned

[big turkey]

.44 Magnum Handgun and the Lever Action Marlin in .44 Magnum Rifle would just about be all a fellow

would need to Survive anywhere.

Dirty Harry Lifestyle



Although the .357 Magnum has recorded more one shot kills of the human variety than any

other round.

Al

[czuch]

Private sales.
357 is a very nice choice.
38 spl as a beginner and you gan get alot of shooting under your belt for nottalotta.

[98valk]

All advice above is still relevant... you can get 10-rd AR15 mags.

The Marlin 1985C is a good reliable firearm, and allowed in NJ.

I would not live in NJ or in any other people's republic, under any circumstance.   

You've seen this, of course.   

http://www.thenewamerican.com/index.php/usnews/crime/5350-man-jailed-in-new-jersey-for-gun-he-legally-owned

nope, didn't see that one, thanks

"Sue Aitken, a trained social worker" in other words a dumb stupid liberal.  In nj, all rights are out the window when 911 is dialed. they can commit u to a pysch ward and then try to get out. social workers also have some power that with a feeling, no facts, can make one's life hell.

I know I can escape, the plan is in the works. Oh I have nappa's book.http://www.evannappen.com/

[9Ball]

any clip, empty or not and larger than 10 rounds is illegal in Nazi Jersey even if u don't have gun that the mag fits.

not true....the magazine capacity limit is 15 rounds.

New Jersey  Large Capacity Feeding Devices 
New Jersey prohibits the  manufacture, transport, shipment, sale or disposal of  large capacity 
ammunition  magazines, unless the  magazine  is  intended to be used  for authorized  military or law 
enforcement purposes.  N.J. Rev. Stat § 2C:39­9h.  New Jersey  law defines  “large capacity 
ammunition  magazine” as a box, drum, tube or other container which  is capable of  holding  more 
than 15 rounds of ammunition to be  fed continuously and directly  into a semi­automatic  firearm. 
Section 2C:39­1y 

[Doc Moose]

Marlin 1894 in 44 Remington Magnum, 3-9X40 Nikon Omega scope.  One shot, one kill during Deer season.  (Of course, shot placement always counts!)

I like it better than my 12 guage:

[RTaz]

any clip, empty or not and larger than 10 rounds is illegal in Nazi Jersey even if u don't have gun that the mag fits.

I guess they wouldn't like this then?

[Varmintmist]

any clip, empty or not and larger than 10 rounds is illegal in Nazi Jersey even if u don't have gun that the mag fits.

PSSSSSSSSSSSSST

It's a magazine, not a clip. You use a clip to load a magazine........

[9Ball]

any clip, empty or not and larger than 10 rounds is illegal in Nazi Jersey even if u don't have gun that the mag fits.

I guess they wouldn't like this then?

nice concealed carry gun....

[Hoser]

Guess which one is my carry gun?  Hint: It's shiny and compact. holds 5 rounds and is in the middle!  Hoser

[musclehead]

My favorite....with out a doubt...

my model 66 I miss this gun every time I go shoot, why did I ever sell it? sold it 20 years ago

[musclehead]

The .357 mag is a great revolver cartridge.... it still has the MOST/HIGHEST documented one-shot stops from a handgun (in 125gr JHP) in history, but this fact is skewed.... since the reason for the number is simply because more cops nationwide carried a 4" (or 6") S & W Model 19(blue)/66 (stainless) .357 than any other gun... for about 30 years.  And... cops shoot people for a living, whereas for the rest of us, it's just a hobby.  (LOL)

Still, in a 4 or 6 inch .357 revolver, you have one of the finest defensive handguns ever made.  And as a firearms novice, you are much better off with a double action revolver than any kind or caliber of auto pistol.  And, if you like the idea of having a rifle/handgun combo in the same caliber, from say a survivalist point of view, a .357 lever gun like the Marlin Model 1894C is not a bad choice (but there are definitely better choices).  It will take a deer IF you get very good shot placement from not too far off.

I have several .44 Mag revolvers, and I got a Marlin .44 mag lever gun 1894, and it is nice, but more of a collector than a practical rifle.  Yes, both the .357 and .44 mags are man stoppers, and the ballistics go up nicely on longer saddle/lever gun rifle barrels of 20 inches.  But, more traditional rifle calibers, in bottleneck cartridges, are SO much better and more versatile.  In my opinion, the utility in having one box of bullets to feed both your pistol and rifle is far outweighed by the enhanced utility you can get from a traditional rifle... say a .223 (5.56 Nato) or .308 (7.62 Nato), among others... even though you now have two boxes of cartridges. 

A revolver cartridge in a lever gun with a 20" bbl, extends your effective range to say 100-150 meters, perhaps more with a scope that is dialed in.  But your traditional rifle cartridges are good to 300 to 600 meters (and beyond), and retain considerably more stopping power (velocity) at the end of longer travel than handgun cartridges fired from rifles.   That is, handgun cartridges in a 20 inch bbl are really moving from the bbl to 75 meters, but slow quickly at farther distances.   

Like with any other tool, you need to ask yourself.."what rifle should I get for what objectives?"  If your goal is to have an all purpose survival rifle on an economy basis, the .22 LR is a likely choice.  A .22 magnum is also a great choice.

If you want to be able to deal with two-legged zombies, tangos, rioters, or the walking dead in numbers, then you want a semiauto rifle (in a rifle caliber) with 30 round box mags, and a vest that carries eight 30 round mags, and auto pistol and multiple mags for that as well. 

Like this:





Even on a budget, you would be far better served for self defense with a model 1946 Soviet/Chinese SKS in 7.62 X39 with a non detachable 20 round box mag, and chest pack with 20 round stripper clips, than a .357 lever gun with 9 round tubular mag under the bbl.





It's all about the right tool for the particular job.  What is your purpose?



 

and remember rule #2  always double tap

[98valk]

any clip, empty or not and larger than 10 rounds is illegal in Nazi Jersey even if u don't have gun that the mag fits.

not true....the magazine capacity limit is 15 rounds.

New Jersey  Large Capacity Feeding Devices 
New Jersey prohibits the  manufacture, transport, shipment, sale or disposal of  large capacity 
ammunition  magazines, unless the  magazine  is  intended to be used  for authorized  military or law 
enforcement purposes.  N.J. Rev. Stat § 2C:39­9h.  New Jersey  law defines  “large capacity 
ammunition  magazine” as a box, drum, tube or other container which  is capable of  holding  more 
than 15 rounds of ammunition to be  fed continuously and directly  into a semi­automatic  firearm. 
Section 2C:39­1y 

private individuals it is 10 rounds as the law u posted states 15 for law enforcement or military only.

I hope you don't own 15 round mags/clips/ammo holders etc.

[f6gal]

any clip, empty or not and larger than 10 rounds is illegal in Nazi Jersey even if u don't have gun that the mag fits.

Well, duh, you could hurt someone, if ya throw one.   

[Chrisj CMA]

I found a great way to minimize the felt kick of the .357.  Shoot 3 boxes through the 500 and then pick up the .357...it feels like a 22 

[9Ball]

any clip, empty or not and larger than 10 rounds is illegal in Nazi Jersey even if u don't have gun that the mag fits.

not true....the magazine capacity limit is 15 rounds.

New Jersey  Large Capacity Feeding Devices  
New Jersey prohibits the  manufacture, transport, shipment, sale or disposal of  large capacity  
ammunition  magazines, unless the  magazine  is  intended to be used  for authorized  military or law  
enforcement purposes.  N.J. Rev. Stat § 2C:39­9h.  New Jersey  law defines  “large capacity  
ammunition  magazine” as a box, drum, tube or other container which  is capable of  holding  more  
than 15 rounds of ammunition to be  fed continuously and directly  into a semi­automatic  firearm.  
Section 2C:39­1y  

private individuals it is 10 rounds as the law u posted states 15 for law enforcement or military only.

I hope you don't own 15 round mags/clips/ammo holders etc.

The 10 round limit is from the gone but not forgotten Assualt weapons law that CLINTON was famous for signing in 1994. In 2004 the law was withdrawn there is no federal limit on ammunition feeding devices anymore. New Jersey around the same time (1994) passed legislation that magazine capacity be limited to 15 rounds. SO anything 15 rounds and under is legal in New Jersey...

You're incorrect in your belief regarding magazine capacity...read the attached statute and you'll see where the military and law enforcement exemption applies to magazines GREATER than 15 rounds as detailed.   You can go buy some new magazines...

http://www.nj.gov/njsp/info/pdf/firearms/njac-title13-ch54.pdf

[KW]

I only have one .357. . . . but it has four barrels 

I purchased a Dan Wesson ‘Pistol Pac’ in 1983. It came in a neat, velvet lined carry suitcase, 4 different color interchangeable sight ramps, a little tool kit, and a belt buckle.  Oh yeah; the four different size barrels are 2, 4, 6 and 8. It came with oversized zebra wood target grips (someone can correct me if I’m wrong, but I believe the importation of zebra wood has been banned?) The gun (and barrels) have a bright blue finish. It’s easily the ‘prettiest’ gun I own. I shot 2 seasons of competition shooting with it. . . . ‘maybe’ 500 rounds total, all through the 8 inch barrel.  The gun still looks brand new. . .  And, the best thing; the price has skyrocketed! The value has increased at least 6x what I paid for it. In fact, I’m seriously thinking about selling the whole package.  I've seen the stinking suitcase alone selling for $200 on Gun Broker.com. . . 

I’ve NEVER sold any of my guns before. It just goes against the grain. Know what I mean? However my bride or 32 years says if I want more guns – and I have my eye on a new compact assault rifle – I need to start parting with some of the ones taking up space in the safe that I haven't used in 20 plus years. I hate when she makes sense and is right. . . .  If I do sell it, I’ll definitely get a cheaper .357 just to have. I love the round. . . .   

[98valk]

The 10 round limit is from the gone but not forgotten Assualt weapons law that CLINTON was famous for signing in 1994. In 2004 the law was withdrawn there is no federal limit on ammunition feeding devices anymore. New Jersey around the same time (1994) passed legislation that magazine capacity be limited to 15 rounds. SO anything 15 rounds and under is legal in New Jersey...

You're incorrect in your belief regarding magazine capacity...read the attached statute and you'll see where the military and law enforcement exemption applies to magazines GREATER than 15 rounds as detailed.   You can go buy some new magazines...

http://www.nj.gov/njsp/info/pdf/firearms/njac-title13-ch54.pdf
[/quote]

thanks.
question though. It says that chapter 54 expires in '07, did they renew it? I have the Nappen II book, that is where I'm getting the 10 from. I will re-read it tonight even though Nappen III is out now.

[9Ball]

here's the latest....effective 2007 and expires in 2012.

http://www.state.nj.us/njsp/info/pdf/firearms/062408_title13ch54.pdf

they allow larger than 15 round magazines to be permanently altered to reduce capacity down to 15 by this current version.  Some were putting blocks in the hi-caps, but this isn't acceptable as it isn't a permanent change.

Seems to me there is a later version which has the recent (Jan, 2010) one gun per month requirements added, but I couldn't find it readily.

We need to get rid of a lot of these restrictive regulations, but with the current majority in the State House it will never happen.

[Jess from VA]

question though. It says that chapter 54 expires in '07, did they renew it? I have the Nappen II book, that is where I'm getting the 10 from. I will re-read it tonight even though Nappen III is out now.

CA, as JRH advised, the 15 round mag is good in NJ.  See (copy):  http://www.nraila.org/media/misc/nj.htm

[Jess from VA]

my model 66 I miss this gun every time I go shoot, why did I ever sell it? sold it 20 years ago

I've sold a few myself, I wish I hadn't.  My 4" Model 66 with a serious amount of timing and trigger work with Lee Baker sights is not one of them.  That's one that gets buried with me.   

[Jess from VA]

I’ve NEVER sold any of my guns before. It just goes against the grain. Know what I mean? However my bride or 32 years says if I want more guns – and I have my eye on a new compact assault rifle – I need to start parting with some of the ones taking up space in the safe that I haven't used in 20 plus years. I hate when she makes sense and is right. . . .  If I do sell it, I’ll definitely get a cheaper .357 just to have. I love the round. . . .

KW, it's all about priorities (and also about money).  For a long time, I just bought what I wanted, cause I could afford it.  After 20 years, I had to admit I didn't really need more guns, so I slowed way down (didn't quit). Now that I'm retired, money spent does not get replaced. 

So when I decided I needed an M4 carbine (16" AR15) piston rifle, I sold my perfect, minty 6" Colt Python, which about covered the cost of the rifle (Stag Model 8 - look them over!!).   It was a good trade.  I liked my Python,  but I love my S & W Mod 66 with gunsmith work, and wouldn't sell it, and it would not be worth 1/3 what the Python was anyway. 

Point is, if money doesn't grow on trees, and you're not married to the 4-bbl Dan Wesson kit, trade it for what you want.  Find a nice used "4 combat .357 later, and you're good to go.

JMHO

[Brad]

Just make sure that you have enough high capacity magazines 

[Master Blaster]

Think I may have the ultimate in rifle/handgun combos, A BFR in 45-70, and a Marlin 45-70 Guide Gun.  Both will chunk a large hunk of lead downrange, and the recoil isnt unbearable either.

[Kendall]

Personally i like the rossi lever action in 357mag. I use it when playing in the desert for antelope jacks, and coyotes. Shoots pretty much dead on out to 125yrds. Great lil rifle , light weight and accurate. 

[Serk]

Just make sure that you have enough high capacity magazines 

Normal capacity magazines... Don't give in to their word games...

[9Ball]

Just make sure that you have enough high capacity magazines  

Normal capacity magazines... Don't give in to their word games...

We need your vote here in NJ....

[98valk]

Just make sure that you have enough high capacity magazines  

Normal capacity magazines... Don't give in to their word games...

We need your vote here in NJ....

read the nappan book last night, for when it was written I was confusing fed law 10 rounds with the NJ law 15 rounds.

[¿spoom]

The .357 mag is a great revolver cartridge.... it still has the MOST/HIGHEST documented one-shot stops from a handgun (in 125gr JHP) in history, but this fact is skewed.... since the reason for the number is simply because more cops nationwide carried a 4" (or 6") S & W Model 19(blue)/66 (stainless) .357 than any other gun... for about 30 years.  And... cops shoot people for a living, whereas for the rest of us, it's just a hobby.  (LOL)

Still, in a 4 or 6 inch .357 revolver, you have one of the finest defensive handguns ever made.  And as a firearms novice, you are much better off with a double action revolver than any kind or caliber of auto pistol.  And, if you like the idea of having a rifle/handgun combo in the same caliber, from say a survivalist point of view, a .357 lever gun like the Marlin Model 1894C is not a bad choice (but there are definitely better choices).  It will take a deer IF you get very good shot placement from not too far off.

I have several .44 Mag revolvers, and I got a Marlin .44 mag lever gun 1894, and it is nice, but more of a collector than a practical rifle.  Yes, both the .357 and .44 mags are man stoppers, and the ballistics go up nicely on longer saddle/lever gun rifle barrels of 20 inches.  But, more traditional rifle calibers, in bottleneck cartridges, are SO much better and more versatile.  In my opinion, the utility in having one box of bullets to feed both your pistol and rifle is far outweighed by the enhanced utility you can get from a traditional rifle... say a .223 (5.56 Nato) or .308 (7.62 Nato), among others... even though you now have two boxes of cartridges. 

A revolver cartridge in a lever gun with a 20" bbl, extends your effective range to say 100-150 meters, perhaps more with a scope that is dialed in.  But your traditional rifle cartridges are good to 300 to 600 meters (and beyond), and retain considerably more stopping power (velocity) at the end of longer travel than handgun cartridges fired from rifles.   That is, handgun cartridges in a 20 inch bbl are really moving from the bbl to 75 meters, but slow quickly at farther distances.   

Like with any other tool, you need to ask yourself.."what rifle should I get for what objectives?"  If your goal is to have an all purpose survival rifle on an economy basis, the .22 LR is a likely choice.  A .22 magnum is also a great choice.

If you want to be able to deal with two-legged zombies, tangos, rioters, or the walking dead in numbers, then you want a semiauto rifle (in a rifle caliber) with 30 round box mags, and a vest that carries eight 30 round mags, and auto pistol and multiple mags for that as well. 

Like this:





Even on a budget, you would be far better served for self defense with a model 1946 Soviet/Chinese SKS in 7.62 X39 with a non detachable 20 round box mag, and chest pack with 20 round stripper clips, than a .357 lever gun with 9 round tubular mag under the bbl.





It's all about the right tool for the particular job.  What is your purpose?



 

Couldn't have said it better. A spoon and fork are two different tools for different purposes, and a spork is a poor substitute for one of each.

[¿spoom]

Getting back to the original topic - no, I think there are several calibers better than the .357 for an ultimate survival round, but my reasoning may be far different than yours. I like my .357s and enjoy shooting them but for me, an "ultimate survival round" would foremost have to be an international caliber you can stumble upon by the millions and barter with. 9mm, .223, .308, and possibly ,45ACP & .30-06 would be my choices.
Wandering back off topic, if you aren't counting surviaval/availability, just talking handguns in general-
For just choosing a revolver round I'd go with a .41mag or .44mag over the ,357 all day long. The .357 is a little light IMHO and loaded hot to compensate for it. A 44mag loaded with 44spec. is more accurate than a .357 in most people's hands and the stopping power is plenty, likewise a 41spec. There's a strong case for the .45 ACP as the best overall handgun caliber. Opinions will vary but that big heavy bullet has quite an impact and is a very accurate caliber. Tons of ball ammo is still available and there are many good handloading component choices.