Help with Engine Temp

[Sambeaux]

Gents,

I have been riding a ’99 Standard for about 2 years.  Last Saturday, I installed a set of Motosen's gauges, including oil press and water temp.  Prior to this, I had no direct indication of water temp.  I have a Temp Stick in the crank case reading oil temp - typically runs between 200 – 210 F. 

Everything was installed per directions with the heat sensor replacing a 10mm Allen plug on the bottom right just aft of the forward motor mount.  When finished, I ran the engine (in the shop) to be sure that everything was working.  The temp rose to about 210 when the fan kicked on and cycled the temp back down.  Oil Pressure was running about 70 psi on choke and dropped to 30 psi once at temp and at idle.  All seemed well.

Sunday, I rode out to La Grange – about 5 hours round trip.  Weather was cool – mid 50’s to low 60’s.  This was a combination of interstate (70-85 mph) and back roads (35-60 mph).  The oil gauge read a solid 70 psi.  The temp gauge never got off the lower end of the scale unless I was stopped or in slower traffic – it would slowly rise until I got moving again but never above 175.  Oil Temp ran normal, +200.  This just doesn’t seem right to me - but I have nothing to compare the data with.  I’m thinking the thermostat is stuck in the open position.  Before starting a replacement project, I was hoping for some information and advice.

Am I just paranoid or has anyone experienced a similar low temperature issue and what was the cause?

With the oil temp at or above 200F is there a chance of accelerated engine wear or any other negative impact (Read - "Should I park it until I get it fixed")?

I have been using the maintenance guides posted around the web to great effect (Thanks guys!!) but haven’t seen one for this job.  I found a couple of brief description on various thread but was looking for something with a little more detail.  Does anyone know of a guide for this job?

Thanks in advance,

Sambeaux

[bentwrench]

Temps of 200-225 degrees is just fine with todays oils,especially synthetics.
bw

[sandy]

RP explained to me that the place you tapped into the block won't read the highest temps. It's closer to the supply from the radiator and hasn't picked all the engine heat yet. RP made a housing that mounts the sensor at the top of the radiator. Now he has better correlation between oil and water temps.

[Sambeaux]

I read RP's article before the install but not having access to machine tools opted out on this option.  I didn't think the recommended loaction would have a 50 F difference.  Is the suggested mounting too close to the outlet of the radiator to get a accurate reading?

Sambeaux

[BF]

What is this "RP's article"?  Where is it......link?
 

[Pete]

Typically the faster you run the higher the oil temp.

While the water temp typically does not increase very much with increased speed except at very high speeds.

[Sambeaux]

My Bad - I may have missed the author.  The article I am refereing is listed on the SHOP TALK page.

Adding Engine Gauges to the Valkyrie


http://www.valkyrieriders.com/shoptalk/gauges.htm

[Sambeaux]

Typically the faster you run the higher the oil temp.

While the water temp typically does not increase very much with increased speed except at very high speeds.

As far as I know the theromstat is OEM (180F).  Wouldn't the engine temperature be more stable and higher then 120F?

[Ricky-D]

Sambeaux wrote:

it would slowly rise until I got moving again but never above 175.

Seems to be much ado ...

Right where you ought to be with a 180 thermostat!

***

[Sambeaux]

It seems kind of pointless to have temp gauge that doesn’t read under normal riding conditions.  I'll have to do a little follow-up. 

I plan on replacing the existing thermostat with 180 F / high flow.  Hopefully this will stabilize the engine temp above 120 under normal riding conditions.  If this doesn’t work, I’ll have to relocate the sensor to the radiator return hose.

Thanks to all,

Sambeaux

[Earl in Pensacola]

The sensor to my water temp. gauge is located "in" the middle of the upper hose.  It has been there for 10 years.  I have replaced the 180 thermostat once with another 180.  My temps run 180 after the first few minutes and also at almost any speed.  She holds 180 on the hottest days at highway speeds and it always moves up to 210 at idle or heavy traffic.  Fan comes on at 212 and holds her or drops to about 195 and shuts off. I don't use syn. oil and never have and my fair lady is at 230K now.   

[RP#62]

The best place to put the coolant temp sensor is in the thermostat housing.  The next best place is the upper radiator hose just past the thermostat housing.  I say next best because if everything is operating normally, it will give virtually the same reading as you would get in the thermostat housing, but since the sensor needs flow to register accurately, you won't get a good reading before the thermostat opens, or if it is stuck closed.  Its much easier to put an adapter in the upper hose though than to remove, drill and tap the thermostat housing. Also, some long sensors may have clearance issues with the thermostat.  All things considered its a good trade off.  I never understood why Motosense put the sensor after the radiator.  That tells more about how efficient the radiator is, than what the engine is doing.  Actually, I had considered putting a sensor in both places then, in addition to engine temp, you could look at the differential temp and see if the radiator was clogging over time, but I digress.

I had posted this on temps back in the summer.
-RP
http://www.valkyrieforum.com/bbs/index.php/topic,20300.0.html

[Sambeaux]

Thanks for the link, RP  - Interesting read and nice displays.

I've got a infrared thermometer coming tomorrow.  I plan on using it to verify the thermostat is working properly.  I guess I blew it putting the sensor in the block but want to confirm it before moving forward.

Does anyone know a current supplier of a radiator return hose adapter?

Sambeaux 

[RP#62]

Thanks for the link, RP  - Interesting read and nice displays.

I've got a infrared thermometer coming tomorrow.  I plan on using it to verify the thermostat is working properly.  I guess I blew it putting the sensor in the block but want to confirm it before moving forward.

Does anyone know a current supplier of a radiator return hose adapter?

Sambeaux 

Sent you a PM.
-RP

[valkyriemc]

The sensor to my water temp. gauge is located "in" the middle of the upper hose.  It has been there for 10 years.  I have replaced the 180 thermostat once with another 180.  My temps run 180 after the first few minutes and also at almost any speed.  She holds 180 on the hottest days at highway speeds and it always moves up to 210 at idle or heavy traffic.  Fan comes on at 212 and holds her or drops to about 195 and shuts off. I don't use syn. oil and never have and my fair lady is at 230K now.  

All the above - same for me - 2K Interstate, north Florida. Rp's adapter, good stuff.

[Sambeaux]

Sweet.

Your sensor looks longer than the one provided by Motosen.  I had wondered about its exposure to the coolant.  Do you remember the specs on it?

Sam

[Valkpilot]

It seems kind of pointless to have temp gauge that doesn’t read under normal riding conditions.  I'll have to do a little follow-up. 

I plan on replacing the existing thermostat with 180 F / high flow.  Hopefully this will stabilize the engine temp above 120 under normal riding conditions.  If this doesn’t work, I’ll have to relocate the sensor to the radiator return hose.

Thanks to all,

Sambeaux

I think your engine temperature is stable, if the oil temp is consistent.  The oil temp is more indicative of overall engine temperature than is the coolant temp. 

The radiator and coolant are providing active "next level" cooling using forced air.  This is supplemental to (minimal in our case) passive heat dispersion by the engine mass, oil, and air flow over the engine.

I would expect to use a water temp guage to tell me if I'm overheating, for example, if the fan fails on a hot day stopped in traffic, or the thermostat sticks closed.  Your guage will do this regardless of sensor location.

I'd be tempted to leave it where it is.

[Kingbee]

Several years ago I installed the Motosens according to their directions, and had the same readings as yours.  In that sensor location you're basically reading the water temp as it exits the radiator.

I installed adapters in the upper radiator hoses of both my bikes, and can now see what's actually going on.  Before, in cold weather, the gauges could stay around 100 degrees while moving - not really very useful information.

On another related note, when I installed Interstate pods to my Tourer, including the proper baffle, water temps typically increased 15 - 25 degrees across the board, a little dis-concerting in warm weather and slow speeds.  When I sold the bike for an Interstate,  the Interstate also displayed those higher temps, like the Tourer with the pods. In 80 degree weather, once the temp goes over 200, it never goes lower no matter how long I cruise on the highway.  Stopped, or in heavy traffic, temps will easily go to 230 on BOTH my interstates.  This temp increase also happened to a friend that installed pods to a Tourer -  so I have to conclude that forcing that radiator air flow a slightly longer and more restricted route has had an adverse effect on cooling efficiency.  I'd like to install high flow therostats and lower temp fan sensors, but don't currently have sources for them.
Any help out there?

[Sambeaux]

Confirmed the theromstat is working properly - used an infrared thermometer.  Temps coming back to the radiator are running 170 to 180.   Will have to move the sensor to the return hose as suggested to get a better reading. 

Thanks for all the help.

Sam

[Alaskamike]

Could you possibly just make the mental adjustment between a reading in the block (Outgoing water) and the temp in the hose or radiator proper? 

For instance, if you knew that the temp in block typically ran 25 degrees cooler than the radiator, a temp of 175 would be just about right.

You would also know that if the temps on your guage ran up sharply, a=say to 225+, your engine was probably getting too hot.

If this worked well, you would not have to change tamp sensor location.  Just a thought. 

[Tx Bohemian]

Sunday, I rode out to La Grange – about 5 hours round trip.  Weather was cool – mid 50’s to low 60’s... 
Sambeaux

The wife and I were probably on the same road that day; I-10 from Schulenburg to Brookshire.  Looking at a Jeep Scrambler for sale we spotted a couple of weeks ealier. But we were in the truck and the temp thing said it was 58 for the high.
That is some very pretty country in that area, even this time of year.

 I read this with interest because a few months ago I put some "Bohemian rigged" pods on my '99 Standard to prevent the blast of hot air from the radiator hitting me in the face.  Without a guage I have no way of telling if the temps changed so I checked the temps with a non-contact temp gun also.  It was the same with or without the "pods" around 180-200 on a 95ish deg day depending where on the engine/radiator I checked it, plus I didn't adjust the emissivity as I was just comparing one to the other.

I'm glad to hear this is where the temps should be.

[valkyriemc]

Sweet.

Your sensor looks longer than the one provided by Motosen.  I had wondered about its exposure to the coolant.  Do you remember the specs on it?

Sam

Nata, sry.