Have you heard of Electronic Pickpocket??

[Jess from VA]

http://www.wreg.com/videobeta/?watchId=8ba6f8fc-90a2-4711-90ea-1884ec348310

The issue is bigger than just the new style of passports, which contain chips that emit information that can be read by a scanner. We're also talking about your Metro SmarTrip card, your employee ID/building access card, your automatic highway toll pass, the newest wave of credit cards and gas purchasing cards, even digital drivers' licenses being developed in some states.

All of these nifty and oh-so-convenient bits of plastic employ versions of what's known as radio frequency identification technology, or RFID. That is, they toss out bits of data that are caught by receivers, with little or no contact, just through the air in some cases. The new credit cards, such as MasterCard's PayPass, don't have to be swiped through a machine. Swiping is so retro, and takes precious extra seconds. You need only lightly tap the PayPass on a terminal to register a purchase.

http://www.idstronghold.com/?gclid=CM_ojL7v3aUCFQp75QodpFBg0Q

[FLAVALK]

Beware of strangers trying to press a laptop against yer butt 

[ricoman]

very interesting stuff-kinda wonder where all the tech stuff will take us

yellow is too darn hard to see

[x]

http://www.wreg.com/videobeta/?watchId=8ba6f8fc-90a2-4711-90ea-1884ec348310

The issue is bigger than just the new style of passports, which contain chips that emit information that can be read by a scanner. We're also talking about your Metro SmarTrip card, your employee ID/building access card, your automatic highway toll pass, the newest wave of credit cards and gas purchasing cards, even digital drivers' licenses being developed in some states.

All of these nifty and oh-so-convenient bits of plastic employ versions of what's known as radio frequency identification technology, or RFID. That is, they toss out bits of data that are caught by receivers, with little or no contact, just through the air in some cases. The new credit cards, such as MasterCard's PayPass, don't have to be swiped through a machine. Swiping is so retro, and takes precious extra seconds. You need only lightly tap the PayPass on a terminal to register a purchase.

http://www.idstronghold.com/?gclid=CM_ojL7v3aUCFQp75QodpFBg0Q

OK... I'll bite... what IS the issue?  Close proximity RFID has been in use for decades... ie... door access cards that must be within a half inch or so.  It has been adapted to credit, debit, and cash cards.  Use it here all the time.  Tap a card... don't even have to hand it to someone who might make a copy.
 

[alph]

OK... I'll bite... what IS the issue?  Close proximity RFID has been in use for decades... ie... door access cards that must be within a half inch or so.  It has been adapted to credit, debit, and cash cards.  Use it here all the time.  Tap a card... don't even have to hand it to someone who might make a copy.

the issue is that any criminal can get a "long" range prox reader to copy your information.  all you have to do is walk in front of the scanner and that person would be able to duplicate that card, or the information on it, that is ONLY if it is an RFID (radio frequency identification).  An RFID device is the same thing as a Proximity card, it has a coil of wire that is energized when it passes through a reader, that activates a small IC chip that contains a coded number, this number is then cross referenced to “you” and the system that “you” have access to can then be duplicated onto another chip.  now, an easy fix is to put your prox card sandwiched with any thin metal (aluminum foil for example) this will not allow the coil in the prox to emit the imprinted data. 

i don't know what the range of the long range prox readers are now, but when i worked with them ten years ago, the best you could get was only several inches!!  then again, i only worked with security system prox readers. 

I'M NOT PERINOID, but when i got my passport card, i stuck it in the microwave for two seconds, this fried the small chip that is imbedded in it.  i just don't like the thought of uncle sam having any chance of monitoring me!!  went to Canada last summer, crossed the boarders with out issues.  (now I’m sure I’ll be stopped, I wouldn’t doubt uncle sam monitors this website!!)

[Bobbo]

As mentioned, RFID tags have been around for quite a while.  The problem someone would have with a “long range scanner” would be the transmit power of the card.  You could easily build an RF transmitter that would activate the card from several yards away.  The problem is the card can only transmit a few inches, since the RF power is limited by design in the RFID tag.  Unless the person holds a receiver right next to you, it would be impossible to read the info on the card.  Also, if you have several cards in your wallet, and they use the same frequency, all you would get back is a scrambled mess.

[elraque]

http://www.wreg.com/videobeta/?watchId=8ba6f8fc-90a2-4711-90ea-1884ec348310

The issue is bigger than just the new style of passports, which contain chips that emit information that can be read by a scanner. We're also talking about your Metro SmarTrip card, your employee ID/building access card, your automatic highway toll pass, the newest wave of credit cards and gas purchasing cards, even digital drivers' licenses being developed in some states.

All of these nifty and oh-so-convenient bits of plastic employ versions of what's known as radio frequency identification technology, or RFID. That is, they toss out bits of data that are caught by receivers, with little or no contact, just through the air in some cases. The new credit cards, such as MasterCard's PayPass, don't have to be swiped through a machine. Swiping is so retro, and takes precious extra seconds. You need only lightly tap the PayPass on a terminal to register a purchase.

http://www.idstronghold.com/?gclid=CM_ojL7v3aUCFQp75QodpFBg0Q

OK... I'll bite... what IS the issue?  Close proximity RFID has been in use for decades... ie... door access cards that must be within a half inch or so.  It has been adapted to credit, debit, and cash cards.  Use it here all the time.  Tap a card... don't even have to hand it to someone who might make a copy.
 

Welcome back, SE!! I haven't heard much from you for a while...

[Oss]

well I know it wasnt the ELF video that kept SE away as he told me so in a PM

The only one who never answered was BOBBO

Maybe he cant dance.  Heck even Joe and Detn8er danced for me a few years ago

Alph never thought to microwave my passport, next you will be telling me you microwave the ice cream after you put it on your apple pie to have a la mode

No wait  I DO THAT

[Piper]

http://www.wreg.com/videobeta/?watchId=8ba6f8fc-90a2-4711-90ea-1884ec348310

The issue is bigger than just the new style of passports, which contain chips that emit information that can be read by a scanner. We're also talking about your Metro SmarTrip card, your employee ID/building access card, your automatic highway toll pass, the newest wave of credit cards and gas purchasing cards, even digital drivers' licenses being developed in some states.

All of these nifty and oh-so-convenient bits of plastic employ versions of what's known as radio frequency identification technology, or RFID. That is, they toss out bits of data that are caught by receivers, with little or no contact, just through the air in some cases. The new credit cards, such as MasterCard's PayPass, don't have to be swiped through a machine. Swiping is so retro, and takes precious extra seconds. You need only lightly tap the PayPass on a terminal to register a purchase.

http://www.idstronghold.com/?gclid=CM_ojL7v3aUCFQp75QodpFBg0Q

The distance these wise guys are able to sniff a card are increasing all the time. When my work issued new ID badges, they also issued a foil sleeve to keep it in. (as if)
Enter " RFID block sleeves " through your favorite search engine and take your pick. Basically a stiff thick foil sleeve will do the trick.

Instructions for sniffing RFID, credit card readers, war-driving are freely on the internet. You can even buy some gear for it on Evilbuy at times.
Such as:
http://iteadstudio.com/produce/customizable-arduino-rfid-module-sniffer-nano-v2-0/
Build the above kit put it in a backpack and stand in line with a bunch of other people somewhere.

If I am not mistaken the EZ-Tag systems are RFID. and people whiz past the readers at 70mph or better. At least on the Hardy toll road in Houston.

At DefCon this year, one seminar had several attendee's GSM phones intercepted shortly after they walked into the room.
http://www.darkreading.com/security-services/167801101/security/attacks-breaches/226500010/index.html
Interesting reading if you geek-speak.
The evil-doers are out there. Arm and protect yourself.

Merry Christmas
y'all

[Bobbo]

The distance these wise guys are able to sniff a card are increasing all the time.

Not really true.  The RFID chip in most cards has limited transmitting range, and that determines how far the receiver has to be from it.  It can only transmit with the power it is designed for.

If I am not mistaken the EZ-Tag systems are RFID. and people whiz past the readers at 70mph or better. At least on the Hardy toll road in Houston.

The original E-Z tags were not RFID; they were battery-powered transponders.  The new ones are RFID, but with much larger antennas and power output than a card.  These are specifically made to transmit over 20 meters.

[Piper]

The distance these wise guys are able to sniff a card are increasing all the time.

Not really true.  The RFID chip in most cards has limited transmitting range, and that determines how far the receiver has to be from it.  It can only transmit with the power it is designed for.

If I am not mistaken the EZ-Tag systems are RFID. and people whiz past the readers at 70mph or better. At least on the Hardy toll road in Houston.

The original E-Z tags were not RFID; they were battery-powered transponders.  The new ones are RFID, but with much larger antennas and power output than a card.  These are specifically made to transmit over 20 meters.

Yep, but those crafty people are increasing range all the time.
http://www.tombom.co.uk/blog/?p=249
Once you wade through the RF geek-speak, this hardware hacker claims he got a read range of 217 feet on a EPC Gen2 RFID tag. You might need Open Office to read his writeup.

At this past years DefCon a bit more humble range was reached:
   "If you think that RFID tags can only be read a few inches away from a reader you haven't met EPC Gen2, the tag that can be found in Enhanced Drivers Licenses - this 900MHz tag is readable from 30 feet with off-the-shelf equipment. Without amplifying the signal from a commercial reader we were able to equal the previous Defcon record of 69 feet, and with less than $1000 of equipment we achieved considerably further than that. This talk covers everything you'll need to know to read federally-issued RFID tags at extreme ranges and explores the consequences to personal privacy of being able to do so. "
http://defcon.org/html/defcon-18/dc-18-speakers.html#Paget

A stylish way to protect your cards
http://boingboing.net/2006/07/30/hello-kitty-antirfid.html

[x]

The distance these wise guys are able to sniff a card are increasing all the time.

Not really true.  The RFID chip in most cards has limited transmitting range, and that determines how far the receiver has to be from it.  It can only transmit with the power it is designed for.

If I am not mistaken the EZ-Tag systems are RFID. and people whiz past the readers at 70mph or better. At least on the Hardy toll road in Houston.

This post shows an incomplete understanding of RFID technology.  Yes, RFID range is increasing all the time but that is for long range RFID.  Short range, like door tap cards, cash tap cards, will always remain that way because of the way they are designed... they are different from medium range, long range, and active RFID.

The original E-Z tags were not RFID; they were battery-powered transponders.  The new ones are RFID, but with much larger antennas and power output than a card.  These are specifically made to transmit over 20 meters.

Yep, but those crafty people are increasing range all the time.
http://www.tombom.co.uk/blog/?p=249
Once you wade through the RF geek-speak, this hardware hacker claims he got a read range of 217 feet on a EPC Gen2 RFID tag. You might need Open Office to read his writeup.

At this past years DefCon a bit more humble range was reached:
   "If you think that RFID tags can only be read a few inches away from a reader you haven't met EPC Gen2, the tag that can be found in Enhanced Drivers Licenses - this 900MHz tag is readable from 30 feet with off-the-shelf equipment. Without amplifying the signal from a commercial reader we were able to equal the previous Defcon record of 69 feet, and with less than $1000 of equipment we achieved considerably further than that. This talk covers everything you'll need to know to read federally-issued RFID tags at extreme ranges and explores the consequences to personal privacy of being able to do so. "
http://defcon.org/html/defcon-18/dc-18-speakers.html#Paget

A stylish way to protect your cards
http://boingboing.net/2006/07/30/hello-kitty-antirfid.html

[sugerbear]

someone was marketing a money clip that would block the rfid. don't remember who though.

[Robert]

Ok If it is such a short distance how do they read grocery cart items from a few feet away and the new Sun pass that you stick on the window is a rfid chip and that can be read at 65 mph from 40 feet away. Also grocery items would debunk the myth that you would get a garbled reading if you see more than one item. Wifi doesn't have a problem determining between what is requesting the signal so why would a rfid scanner? chips they implant into animals dont have a short range either. The bigger question is why do we need this technology?   the magnetic strip is just fine.  

How RFID works	powered by Aeva

Why the Mythbusters won't do RFID (last hope Adam Savage)	powered by Aeva

American R F I D Cards. New World Order Not so subtle!	powered by Aeva

[Bobbo]

Ok If it is such a short distance how do they read grocery cart items from a few feet away and the new Sun pass that you stick on the window is a rfid chip and that can be read at 65 mph from 40 feet away. Also grocery items would debunk the myth that you would get a garbled reading if you see more than one item. Wifi doesn't have a problem determining between what is requesting the signal so why would a rfid scanner? chips they implant into animals dont have a short range either. The bigger question is why do we need this technology?   the magnetic strip is just fine.  

You are mixing apples, oranges, and grapes together with is question.  RFID is simply a methodology to transmit data through radio waves, usually without a battery.  This is the first layer of the OSI model, or physical layer.  The transmit power designed into this physical layer determines how far it can broadcast.  The data link layer and network layer determine whether this is a multiple node or single node system.  Multiple node uses collision detect to rebroadcast a packet if they lose arbitration, which allows all packets to get through, despite using the same frequency.

To specifically address your questions, grocery items would use a higher transmit power, multiple node system.  That would allow readings from several meters away, and insure that all products transmitted their data.

E-Z pass toll way tags use an even higher power transmitter, and are usually multiple node.

WiFi is a different physical layer, but is a high power transmitter using multiple nodes, and upper layers of the OSI model to route data to other nodes.

Pet ID tags are low power, single node transmitters.  You need to get the reader fairly close to read them, usually a few inches.  They make higher powered versions for wild animals so you don’t have to get too close!

Finally, RFID tags in credit cards are low power single node devices.  You have to scan them one at a time, and be within inches to get reliable data.

Sorry for all the geek-speak, but we are trying to apply simple thoughts to a very complex device, which will usually cause confusion and paranoia when it’s not understood.

The reason this technology is useful is that it is much more flexible and faster than a mag-stripe.  It also cannot get erased by a magnetic field, or wear out.  The reader is easily weatherproofed, and doesn’t get dirty or damaged like a mag card reader.

[Robert]

Its not usually the technology that is a threat just the people behind it. Sounds like you have done some research on this, is this what you do?