I want to talk about shotguns for home defense.

[Six Guns]

I'm thinking about buying this shotgun for home defense. Does anyone have any experience with this model?



The SUPER-SHORTY is based on a Mossberg Maverick (also available on Mossberg 500 or Remington 870 at additional cost) 12-gauge shotgun which came from the factory with a pistol grip. Because of this, the SUPER-SHORTY is considered an AOW (Any Other Weapon) and can be transferred with a $5 stamp! The gun holds two 2-3/4" or 3" shells in the magazine, plus one in the chamber. The 16.5" overall length, 6.5" barrel and spring-locked foregrip, which pivots out of the way when not in use, make for a very compact package. As far as we know, this is the shortest 12-gauge pump shotgun available. All parts for the SUPER-SHORTY are made in-house on our own CNC machinery using materials ideally suited to the task. All welds are done by the TIG process, and the manganese phosphate finish is MIL-spec. The SUPER-SHORTY is currently being used by various law enforcement agencies and military units worldwide. If you like the idea of concealed carry with a 12-gauge, or like a lot of "bang" in a small package, or just want the most compact breaching weapon available, then this is the gun for you. You won't find a better made AOW pump shotgun than the SUPER-SHORTY!

[PAVALKER]

Seen those at Gun Shows.  I do have a Remington 870 Home Defense model (extended mag tube) and I changed to Hogue pistol grip (Tamer I think) and it is great.  Plenty of shells in the tube and if the home invaders come in a larger group... I even have a side clamp for 4 more shells (mounts on left side but not shown in this pic).  I have taken it out and shot it... Hogue Tamer grips really tame the kick down nicely.  The whole gun is very short, but not as short as that one pictured.  Price difference is significant from that to mine.  If you are in love with the shorty... you can get a Remington 870 Express fairly reasonable and add the Hogue Tamer grip for a few bucks and take a chop saw to the barrel and mag tubes.... but remember to register it as and AOW with ATF.... 

What you might not notice is that I have a laser and flashlight on the magazine tube and they are side by side... so they both show on either side of the sling strap.  Granted... a laser on a shotgun is... insignificant but.... it does have a wow or intimidation factor of sorts.



Oh and for grins... here is my Ruger Charger ..

[~ Timbrwolf]

. ....I have a Mossberg 500 . ....bought it for home defense also....fired it a few times...not as bad a kick back as I thought it would have....keep it loaded and chambered with Double Odd Buck....paid 360 for it bout a year ago...

[Brad]

Striker 12 Gauge Shotgun



Extremely similar to the Streetsweeper shotgun, the Striker 12 gauge shotgun is a semi-automatic firearm with the capability of firing multiple rounds of 12-gauge ammo. Perfectly fit for close-quarters situations, the Striker 12 is a popular weapon for home defense, especially for those living in urban environments. Some of the specifications of the Striker 12 include:

Weight When Empty: 4.2 kg (4.4 kg when loaded)
Lengths: 792 mm with stock extended, 508 mm with stock folded
Barrel length: 305mm (12 in)
Because the Striker 12 has a shorter barrel than traditional shotguns, it is especially easy to maneuver, even indoors. Plus, because it holds 12 rounds but travels less through doors and walls than many calibers, the Striker 12 is great for home and self defense in urban environments.

[Six Guns]

I'm also looking at this shotgun as well.

Remington 870MCS in "Breeching weapon" configuration, with 10" barrel and no buttstock.

[Bama Red]

As far as the Super Shorty goes for home defense, there are a LOT better choices. It doesn't carry enough initial rounds (you don't want to be caught reloading when there's still multiple invaders in your home), it has no rear stock extension (to either use at your shoulder or to tuck in your armpit for stability) and no real place to stash extra ammo on the gun (you'll have to carry extra rounds in your bunny PJ pockets!!).

The Rem 870 is the premier choice for home defense. Put an extended mag tube on it, a good tactical light and a shell sleeve on the rear stock and you're good to go. Make sure you have a short enough barrel to maneuver thru halls and doorways (but only if you absolutely have to). Your best bet is to stay holed up in your bedroom with the Rem until the cops arrive. Let the bastids take anything they want as long as they don't try your door. You should always keep a cell phone in the bedroom (in case your phone lines are cut) and a second weapon - a high cap rifle or pistol. A .22 is fine for the rifle if that's all you have, but I prefer a pistol with a caliber starting with "4" or greater.

I keep a Winchester Model 97 pump and two .45 ACP semi autos in our bedroom.

[RoadKill]

The Serbu super shorty is AWESOME ! It is a class 3 weapon and requires a tax stamp to own it. Because it is considered "other" by the BATF it is a cheaper tax stamp ( at least here in KS, 50 bucks 1 time tax) I have ZERO complaints about my Serbu BFG.   I like the pistol grip forestock on any long weapon for home defense because you have more control with 2 hands on it if someone grabs the barrel. Shot gun is superior in home defense hands down in my book! Even a .410 works wonders on 2 legged critters,and it dont put a hole in your fridge or thru the neighbors garage. No need for aim (even IF you can aim accurately with all that adrenalin flowin anyhow),.410 makes a nice shot pattern in a hallway.That is where the Taurus Judge comes in handy,45 lc and .410shot should run ANYTHING out of yer house! It's more gun than I would want to conceal and I wouldnt reload any of the shotshells after they fire form to a 45LC chamber,but it is a great "snake gun" for hiking or working in the back 40 too. I recommend any one check it out for a GREAT nightstand firearm.

[Wetrudgeon]

What RoadKill said.  For our $$$, a short shotgun is the "final solution" for any home defense situation (although we prefer a 20 or even 12 bore).  We stuff our shotgun with bird shot (prefer #6 or #4), which we consider very advantageous for across the room ranges since is looses it energy fairly rapidly. 

Having a super shorty near should make for a much more "cozy" feeling when you lay down at night...

We trudge on.

[solo1]

Either a Mossberg 500 or Remington 870 shortened in 12 guage is good, reliable, and cheap. I find that 4 aught shells are a good choice.  Plenty of larger size pellets and minimum penetration.

[Smokinjoe-VRCCDS#0005]

You would be hard pressed to find a " shorter " than this one. I work on the road and this is standard equipment at bed side . Loaded with a custom reload my friend made for me it has BB's as the shot in 410 shells just perfect for a motel room.

[MP]

I thought shotguns had to have a minimum 18" barrel?  Am I mistaken?  Would not be the first time!

MP

[Smokinjoe-VRCCDS#0005]

I thought shotguns had to have a minimum 18" barrel?  Am I mistaken?  Would not be the first time!

MP

My Ducktown firearms made 45/410 in the picture above was made here in The Great State of Tennessee.The local gun dealer still has these new and used for sale I was just in there last week. What about the new Judge ? It's not 18" 

[solo1]

The last that I heard, Fed laws says overall length min 27 inches, barrel length, min 18 inches.

I believe that the loophole is that if the barrel is rifled, the requirements don't apply.

I could be wrong .

[9Ball]

I thought shotguns had to have a minimum 18" barrel?  Am I mistaken?  Would not be the first time!

MP

My Ducktown firearms made 45/410 in the picture above was made here in The Great State of Tennessee.The local gun dealer still has these new and used for sale I was just in there last week. What about the new Judge ? It's not 18" 

Based on his tag on the Taurus, there's a gun seller that doesn't know that .410 is a "bore", not a "gauge"....common mistake

[Jess from VA]

Under the National Firearms Act (NFA) it is illegal for a private citizen to possess a smokeless powder shotgun with a barrel length less than 18 inches (46 cm) and an overall length less than 26 inches (66 cm), without a tax-stamped permit from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, which requires a background check and a $200 fee for every transfer.  However, if the weapon was manufactured by a licensed builder, with a short barrel and no stock, the transfer fee is $5.  That is, under 18" bbl shotguns are treated similarly to automatic weapons and suppressor licensing.

Now handguns made to shoot a shot gun shell are not shotguns under these laws.  A shotgun is legally defined as a shoulder mounted firearm that fires shot. Shotguns and shotgun receivers that have never had a buttstock of any type installed are not shotguns, as they cannot be shoulder mounted. Therefore, cutting one of these below the 18" barrel and/or 26" overall length cannot produce a SBS as the firearm was never a shotgun.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kZL0P0IP_c8&feature=player_embedded

!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U4FH4cK4T0E&feature=player_embedded

!

Personally, I prefer a standard riot barreled 18.5" Rem 870 (or Mossberg) with a pistol grip butt stock so you can handle the weapon one handed while calling the cops with the other hand.  I will not shoot from the hip, but while shouldered for accuracy, in or out of my home.  I do not want any firearm I have to get on a Federal BATFE list to own.

This new pistol grip shotgun stock has significant recoil reduction for a lightweight 18" 12 gauge, and four inches of butt stock length adjustment for the wife and kids.
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/default.aspx?productNumber=420928

[solo1]

Thanks Jeff for the info.

[musclehead]

nothing makes a intruder crap himself faster then hearing a pump shotgun rack a shell, combined with a laser sight, he may not need to go again for a week

[czuch]

Or ever for that matter.^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I have a Jack Russell to let me know when its time to get out the bathroom window and run like a scalded dog.

[rainman]

 


http://slickguns.com/product/kel-tec-unveils-new-ksg-dual-tube-pump-shotgun-0

The Kel-Tec KSG was unveiled this weekend on the cover of Shooting Industry magazine. Photo by Oleg Volk.
 Kel-Tec’s newest revolutionary bull-pup design was announced over the weekend on the cover of the NSSF’s Shooting Industry magazine. Details of the new shotgun are sketchy, but presumably all will be made known at the upcoming NSSF SHOT Show.
 The shotgun bears a stunning resemblance to the South African designed Neostead pump action scattergun. The operator is able to move a switch located near the top of the grip to select the right or left tube, or move the switch to the center to eject a shell without chambering another round. The bull-pup design results in an overall length of only 26″ with an 18.5″ barrel while the bottom eject design makes the firearm truly ambidextrous.

- Hide quoted text -
 Shown next to the box of slugs in the photo to the left, you truly begin to get a sense of scale. The bull-pup design of the KSG makes it ideal for home defense and CQB. The incredibly short overall length makes it more nimble than a sawed off shotgun, and with a 14+1 capacity you don’t sacrifice ammunition capacity to get a shotty in a small package.
Ammunition capacity is 14+1 with 2 3/4″ shells. The KSG is shown with a factory installed Picatinny rail with flip up sights and a pistol grip. MSRP is not known at the moment, nor is there an expected date of availability. 

[Varmintmist]

http://www.gunsamerica.com/userimages/65593/914049254/wm_1444437.jpg

Carbine length 20ga no bs shotgun

[PAVALKER]

http://slickguns.com/product/kel-tec-unveils-new-ksg-dual-tube-pump-shotgun-0

The Kel-Tec KSG was unveiled this weekend on the cover of Shooting Industry magazine. Photo by Oleg Volk.
 Kel-Tec’s newest revolutionary bull-pup design was announced over the weekend on the cover of the NSSF’s Shooting Industry magazine. Details of the new shotgun are sketchy, but presumably all will be made known at the upcoming NSSF SHOT Show.
 The shotgun bears a stunning resemblance to the South African designed Neostead pump action scattergun. The operator is able to move a switch located near the top of the grip to select the right or left tube, or move the switch to the center to eject a shell without chambering another round. The bull-pup design results in an overall length of only 26″ with an 18.5″ barrel while the bottom eject design makes the firearm truly ambidextrous.

- Hide quoted text -
 Shown next to the box of slugs in the photo to the left, you truly begin to get a sense of scale. The bull-pup design of the KSG makes it ideal for home defense and CQB. The incredibly short overall length makes it more nimble than a sawed off shotgun, and with a 14+1 capacity you don’t sacrifice ammunition capacity to get a shotty in a small package.
Ammunition capacity is 14+1 with 2 3/4″ shells. The KSG is shown with a factory installed Picatinny rail with flip up sights and a pistol grip. MSRP is not known at the moment, nor is there an expected date of availability. 

   Me like.        

[Alaskamike]

If you've fired a 12ga shotgun with a pistol grip, you know that you'd better have  have stout wrists to get off the 2nd shot.   If you are the only one that will ever use it.... no big deal if your a man, but if you have others in the hosue who may need it, I  would seriously consider one with a stock.  Short barrel is one thing, but there is no replacing having the weapon firmly placed in your shoulder...... especailly if you need more than one round (which, with 12ga buckshot.. maybe not  an issue  )
And.... while I like the coach guns myself (double side by side) the pumps are better tactical weapons....
EVERYONE knows that sound when you pump a round in the chamber..

[KW]

Cool looking little shotguns. . .  and it was an interesting video, but the guy lost me when he referred to the 'magazine cap' as 'the nut.'  Maybe I'm being picky, but man, if you're selling a gun PLEASE know what the parts are called.

Also, in Michigan you can register a short barrel shotgun as a pistol. . . I never heard of any federal stamp being needed? Am I a law breaker? 

I'm a Remington guy as well . . . .  I have four 870's in the safe (one belongs to one of my sons) and a few other Rems. . . .

Anyone remember the Spa 12? I want to say it was a 'South African' made shotgun, but I may be wrong. It had a rotary mag (held 12 I think) and could either pump or go semi-auto. I shot one. . . 15-20 years ago. It was a blast. Always wanted one. . . but never 'pulled the trigger' (so to speak) 

BTW - I JUST picked up (tonight) a new assault plinker. . .  It's a 'Hi-Point' and before any haters tell me they're cheap guns, "it is what it is" and I got it for the FUN factor. It's sitting on the kitchen table as I type - LOL. It's a 40 caliber. . . . I know I'm not going to do anything but HAVE FUN with it!!   

[Jess from VA]

Speaking of fun guns, I just got on a list (backorder) to get a new KelTec  PMR-30 from the new gun shop on Ft Belvoir VA.  A lightweight .22 magnum (.22WMR), with a 30 round magazine.  There were some teething problems with this, and delivery problems too, and it is ammo sensitive.  But with the correct ammo it goes like this.  (Under $300)

Tactical-Life.com Kel-Tec PMR-30	powered by Aeva

PMR-30 90 rounds in 25 seconds	powered by Aeva

Gunblast.com - Kel-Tec PMR-30 22 Magnum Pistol	powered by Aeva

http://www.keltecweapons.com/our-guns/pistols/pmr-30/

[KW]

Hey Jess,
I've been trying to find a Kel-Tec SUB 2000 (S&W .40) since last Feb. I wanted one for a lot of reason, mainly because of the round (of which I have a 'nice' supply.) And, they take a Glock mag and fold in half. . . fitting nicely into a suitcase.  It would have been the perfect little plinker for me. . . plus taking one of my Glock mags would be nice (and practical.) I DID find a SUB 2000 on GunBroaker.com but they were asking too much. Anyway, I got tired of waiting (2 different gun stores - neither cold find one) so I brought the .40 cal. Hi-Point yesterday . . .  

Hey SmokinJoe,
Where can get one of those!!  

[Jess from VA]

Well that pistol caliber folding carbine looks to be available many places for around $400-450, which is not all that bad of a price.  Interestingly, it comes in a variety of models with pistol grips designed to be compatible with the Beretta , GLOCK , S&W 59 series , and SIG pistols.  So you hunt for the model in the grip/caliber that uses the mag of your favorite (already owned) pistol.  It would be of limited use for me.  Plinking .40 S & W would be a bit expensive.

http://www.mouseguns.com/sub2000/sub2000.htm

http://www.gunsamerica.com/Search/Category/383/2/Guns/Rifles/Kel-Tec-Rifles.htm

[KW]

That gun sure has gone up since I first laid eyes on one. . . . .  and, seriously, they're almost impossible to find 'on a shelve' in any gun store! My former local gun supplier promised me one last Feb. for $367.35 out the door. That's minus a 7% law enforcement discount and after an already low price, but. . . . . . 11 months later I'm still waiting. So, as I mention above, I got a Hi-Point 4095. I've been playing with it all day. As of right now, it's my new favorite gun! I got a few add-on toys to go with it and have been looking on line for some more. All kidding aside; it's a solid little gun! And, they guarantee it for life. Kel-Tec kind of reminds me of Ruger from about 30 years ago. We all thought they were mostly cheap junk, but they stuck it out and continued to invest in product development. Now, IMO, they're fit and finsh and reliability is as solid as anyones. I only own one. A custom Mark II I used for target compition for years, but our duty rifle is a mini-14. Man, we had some barrels on our training guns that had seen OVER 100k rounds and still fired straight & true. What more can you ask for?

And yeah, I agree, using a 40 cal as a 'plinker' would be expensive, but I REALLY have a good supply that arrived free. So. . .

[AussieValk]

man, I'll have to move to the US!

all I got beside my bed is a fire extinguisher. Don't ever let them take your guns away like they did to us.

[9Ball]

Well that pistol caliber folding carbine looks to be available many places for around $400-450, which is not all that bad of a price.  Interestingly, it comes in a variety of models with pistol grips designed to be compatible with the Beretta , GLOCK , S&W 59 series , and SIG pistols.  So you hunt for the model in the grip/caliber that uses the mag of your favorite (already owned) pistol.  It would be of limited use for me.  Plinking .40 S & W would be a bit expensive.

http://www.mouseguns.com/sub2000/sub2000.htm

http://www.gunsamerica.com/Search/Category/383/2/Guns/Rifles/Kel-Tec-Rifles.htm

I bought mine new back when they were changing over to the Sub-2000.  I got it in Beretta 92FS form so I could interchange with my pistol and I already had a big supply of spare magazines.  I paid $289+ 2.5% tax at the time.  Not sure they're really worth over $400 though.  And like Jess says, I wouldn't want to be plinking very much with the price of .40 S&W ammo.  9mm can still be found at less than $10/box. It shoots fairly well, but I rather prefer to shoot my CX4 Storm in 9mm.  It's truly a tack driver.

[torch1972]

personally unless your really good with a shotgun the first time you pull the trigger on that shorty your not going to be happy especially with a pistol grip. I had an 870 with an 18" barrel and a pistol grip was not comfortable to shoot so I added a full stock. I have a Benelli Nova tactical which is way easier to shoot and contol than any shorty especially with 3" loads.

[Jess from VA]

I bought mine new back when they were changing over to the Sub-2000.  I got it in Beretta 92FS form so I could interchange with my pistol and I already had a big supply of spare magazines.  I paid $289+ 2.5% tax at the time.  Not sure they're really worth over $400 though.  And like Jess says, I wouldn't want to be plinking very much with the price of .40 S&W ammo.  9mm can still be found at less than $10/box. It shoots fairly well, but I rather prefer to shoot my CX4 Storm in 9mm.  It's truly a tack driver.


[/quote]

JR, that is a very interesting carbine.  Of course everything Beretta is top notch in quality.  I am curious however, with a scope, does that thing group at say 100 yards or more, even with a 16.6" bbl? 

[PAVALKER]

I was/am torn between the CX4 Storm and Sub2000 for a 9mm carbine.   I have a Ruger P89 with more magazines than most of the others and wanted the carbine to be compatible with those mags. The matching Ruger carbines are no longer made, are scarce and very pricey if you do find one.  I have read that the KelTec Sub2000 in the Beretta 92 configuration (or other configs besides Glock) will take Ruger mags that have a spare slot cut in them for the mag release.   However, I was wondering if the CX4 Storm takes the Beretta 92 mags, and if  Ruger mags could then be slotted to fit the mag release on the CX4. 

Nice looking CX4 by the way.....

And I do want that KelTec Shotgun.....  I wish they would hurry up and get it out there....

[PAVALKER]

personally unless your really good with a shotgun the first time you pull the trigger on that shorty your not going to be happy especially with a pistol grip. I had an 870 with an 18" barrel and a pistol grip was not comfortable to shoot so I added a full stock. I have a Benelli Nova tactical which is way easier to shoot and contol than any shorty especially with 3" loads.

I don't shoot my shotgun all that much, but do so now and then to make sure all is well for when I want it to be.  I do have an 870 Home Defense 18in bbl (as I pictured above) with Hogue Tamer grips and it is very comfortable to shoot.  I think it all depends on how you hold your hand/wrist but more importantly those rubber over-molded Tamer grips make the difference as well.  Knowing what to expect helps as well... it is a 12gauge afterall.  The 00Buck or 000Buck has a bit more kick than the bird shot of course.  Price for those grips is very reasonable for the pistol and fore grip set at about 25 bucks at MidwayUSA I think.

[9Ball]

I was/am torn between the CX4 Storm and Sub2000 for a 9mm carbine.   I have a Ruger P89 with more magazines than most of the others and wanted the carbine to be compatible with those mags. The matching Ruger carbines are no longer made, are scarce and very pricey if you do find one.  I have read that the KelTec Sub2000 in the Beretta 92 configuration (or other configs besides Glock) will take Ruger mags that have a spare slot cut in them for the mag release.   However, I was wondering if the CX4 Storm takes the Beretta 92 mags, and if  Ruger mags could then be slotted to fit the mag release on the CX4.  

Nice looking CX4 by the way.....

And I do want that KelTec Shotgun.....  I wish they would hurry up and get it out there....

In 9mm, the CX4 can be setup to accept either the 92FS (which is what I have) or the PX4 magazines.  Don't have any Ruger 9mm anymore , otherwise I would check the fit for you.

I'd like to have the KelTec shotgun too....probably won't be readily available for quite a while.  They always seem to release articles about 6 months before you can find them in the stores.

And that little KelTec .22 mag would be nice, but illegal to own in NJ due to 30 round capacity.

[9Ball]

JR, that is a very interesting carbine.  Of course everything Beretta is top notch in quality.  I am curious however, with a scope, does that thing group at say 100 yards or more, even with a 16.6" bbl?  

I've never shot it at 100 yards.  Out to 25 yards, I can shoot clothespins with the iron sights.  From a bench, the groups are at or above 4" at 50 yards.  I'm not a very good shot though.  I have a green laser set to zero at 25 yards....all the accuracy I need.  It's really a close quarters gun.

One thing of interest with the CX4 is that it can be setup to an entirely left hand gun...which is how mine is configured.  All controls are now LH, and spent brass kicks out to the left.  There aren't many true LH rifles.