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« Reply #40 on: March 31, 2011, 06:43:24 AM » |
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I think that even in today's time Mr. Jefferson would have been a good president. heck he might have v toed the helmet law.  He would have been run out of town on a rail by the current crop of Republicans. Ideas and ideals far too dangerous to those who put party over country. |
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Bobbo
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« Reply #41 on: March 31, 2011, 07:04:58 AM » |
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In fact, Jefferson himself declared, “I am a real Christian, that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus.” While many might question this claim, the fact remains that Jefferson called himself a Christian, not a deist.
Here's more on Jefferson's thoughts about Christianity: http://www.faithofourfathers.net/jefferson.htmlFrom Jefferson's writings, it is abundantly clear that he separated himself from the "Jesus is God" crowd, and believed a true Christian was someone who lived as Jesus taught, and not that Jesus was God with supernatural powers. A few months ago, Jabba asked an honest question in the "A religious question for Robert." thread. You and others stated to be a real Christian, Jabba would have to accept Jesus as his God and savior, not simply live as Jesus taught. Your philosophy is in direct opposition to Jefferson's writings. |
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Robert
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« Reply #43 on: March 31, 2011, 09:18:01 AM » |
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"I am a real Christian, that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus. I have little doubt that our whole country will soon be rallied to the unity of our creator."children as possible.”
“But the greatest of all the reformers of the depraved religion of His own country, was Jesus of Nazareth.”
These are from the links you posted Bobbo its really not possible to be a follower of Jesus and not acknowledge who Jesus is
The repression in the church at that time was tremendous, people were not even allowed to read the Bible and it was taught in Latin. So only a chosen few could understand and of those the British used it to oppress its citizens including trying go to bring the Americas back under this whole mess. So like I have said before if I was in this time I would say the same things Jefferson said in order not to be ensnared again into a yolk of tyranny and slavery. Some of the very things Jesus taught and fought against. This is why Jefferson is so touchy on the subject and distances himself from the usual Christian status quo. You should know this better than anyone since this is the very thing that a real relationship with Jesus had to be separated from and you say Christianity is. People had to have a choice and would not be by law or compulsion nor for mans control of another man, but a move of Jesus on the heart of man. Jeffersons battle cry of Im a real Christian echo's in my heart too. I dont follow Jesus to be good or to gain friends or by compulsion of church I do it because He touched my heart and in reading the Bible and listening to the Holy Spirit I have learned He loves me and protects, provides, talks and Just is there for me. So this is the real Christian
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« Last Edit: March 31, 2011, 09:21:52 AM by Robert »
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“Some people see things that are and ask, Why? Some people dream of things that never were and ask, Why not? Some people have to go to work and don’t have time for all that.”
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Bobbo
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« Reply #44 on: March 31, 2011, 09:35:24 AM » |
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"I am a real Christian, that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus. I have little doubt that our whole country will soon be rallied to the unity of our creator."children as possible.”
“But the greatest of all the reformers of the depraved religion of His own country, was Jesus of Nazareth.”
These are from the links you posted Bobbo its really not possible to be a follower of Jesus and not acknowledge who Jesus is
The repression in the church at that time was tremendous, people were not even allowed to read the Bible and it was taught in Latin. So only a chosen few could understand and of those the British used it to oppress its citizens including trying go to bring the Americas back under this whole mess. So like I have said before if I was in this time I would say the same things Jefferson said in order not to be ensnared again into a yolk of tyranny and slavery. Some of the very things Jesus taught and fought against. This is why Jefferson is so touchy on the subject and distances himself from the usual Christian status quo. You should know this better than anyone since this is the very thing that a real relationship with Jesus had to be separated from and you say Christianity is. People had to have a choice and would not be by law or compulsion nor for mans control of another man, but a move of Jesus on the heart of man. Jeffersons battle cry of Im a real Christian echo's in my heart too. I dont follow Jesus to be good or to gain friends or by compulsion of church I do it because He touched my heart and in reading the Bible and listening to the Holy Spirit I have learned He loves me and protects, provides, talks and Just is there for me. So this is the real Christian
I agree with Jefferson that Jesus wanted to reform the corrupt religions of his time. I also agree with Jefferson that Jesus was not God incarnate or had supernatural powers. You told others that it's not good enough to simply follow Jesus' teachings and principals, they must believe he is God, and accept him as their savior. This is where you and Jefferson diverge. |
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Robert
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« Reply #45 on: March 31, 2011, 09:53:21 AM » |
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Jefferson did believe Jesus as Lord and was God I find nothing anywhere that says anything different.
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“Some people see things that are and ask, Why? Some people dream of things that never were and ask, Why not? Some people have to go to work and don’t have time for all that.”
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Bobbo
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« Reply #46 on: March 31, 2011, 11:03:46 AM » |
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Jefferson did believe Jesus as Lord and was God I find nothing anywhere that says anything different.
From Jefferson's letter to William Short:
"The establishment of the innocent and genuine character of this benevolent moralist, and the rescuing it from the imputation of imposture, which has resulted from artificial systems,* invented by ultra-Christian sects, unauthorized by a single word ever uttered by him, is a most desirable object, and one to which Priestley has successfully devoted his labors and learning."
* e. g. The immaculate conception of Jesus, his deification, the creation of the world by him, his miraculous powers, his resurrection and visible ascension, his corporeal presence in the Eucharist, the Trinity; original sin, atonement, regeneration, election, orders of Hierarchy, &c.
Here, Jefferson is bemoaning the fact that Jesus has been turned from a "benevolent moralist" to a god-like being by "ultra-Christian sects", and comments that rescuing him from that is desirable. Jefferson clearly demonstrates that he considers Jesus a great teacher of morals, but NOT God. Rather than fill up this thread with similar writings from Jefferson, I suggest you explore his writings on your own. |
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« Last Edit: March 31, 2011, 01:15:33 PM by Bobbo »
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Bobbo
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« Reply #47 on: April 01, 2011, 02:14:15 PM » |
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Jefferson did believe Jesus as Lord and was God I find nothing anywhere that says anything different. More from correspondence between Jefferson and William short: "But while this Syllabus is meant to place the character of Jesus in it's true and high light, as no imposter himself but a great Reformer of the Hebrew code of religion, it is not to be understood that I am with him in all his doctrines."He even slams Paul as a leader of a group corrupting the Bible: "Of this band of dupes and impostors, Paul was the great Coryphaeus, and firm corrupter of the doctrines of Jesus."Thomas Jefferson to William Short, April 13, 1820Jefferson is truly a complex and amazing person! |
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