Smoking bans

[Bobbo]

We in the St. Louis, MO area have been under a smoking ban since January 1st of this year.  It has and continues to be a hot topic of debate.  The ban targets all public places, except bars that are small, and sell almost exclusively liquor.  Those small bars have to file an exemption and have it approved.  I don’t smoke cigarettes, but I occasionally enjoy a good cigar.

My complaint with this ban has to do with the free choice of business owners.  If a business owner feels that disallowing smoking in his business is beneficial, then he should have the right to do so.  Forcing a business owner to ban smoking when he feels it helps his business is wrong.  I know people who only go to non-smoking establishments.  If those businesses are successful in part because of their non-smoking policy, what happens when they lose that advantage? If all like businesses are forced to ban smoking, the non-smokers will likely frequent the competition, since the reason for not going has been eliminated.  This will most likely put a financial strain on the businesses that chose to be non-smoking before the ban.

Has anyone seen the effects of a smoking ban in their area?  What are you thoughts on this?

[Chrisj CMA]

We in the St. Louis, MO area have been under a smoking ban since January 1st of this year.  It has and continues to be a hot topic of debate.  The ban targets all public places, except bars that are small, and sell almost exclusively liquor.  Those small bars have to file an exemption and have it approved.  I don’t smoke cigarettes, but I occasionally enjoy a good cigar.

My complaint with this ban has to do with the free choice of business owners.  If a business owner feels that disallowing smoking in his business is beneficial, then he should have the right to do so.  Forcing a business owner to ban smoking when he feels it helps his business is wrong.  I know people who only go to non-smoking establishments.  If those businesses are successful in part because of their non-smoking policy, what happens when they lose that advantage? If all like businesses are forced to ban smoking, the non-smokers will likely frequent the competition, since the reason for not going has been eliminated.  This will most likely put a financial strain on the businesses that chose to be non-smoking before the ban.

Has anyone seen the effects of a smoking ban in their area?  What are you thoughts on this?

cant have BIG GOVERNMENT without the "brother"  My thoughts are to shrink the federal and state govenments down so small they spend all their time worring about running the country/state and dont have time to be sticking their noses in where it doesnt belong

[Disco]

I agree that the combination of marketplace and proprietor should dictate. 

I thought is was particularly ridiculous that I had to sit outside in the cold under a propane heater to smoke a cigar at the Governator's restaurant in California.   

When the anti-smoking ordinance rolled through Dallas some years back, coincidentally on the heels of the big cigar comeback, all the Dallas proprietors I know were impacted negatively.  Some more than others.  The flip side was that the proprietors in the suburbs were impacted positively...until the anti-smoking ordinances rolled through their towns.  Now that it's a level playing field, everything is pretty much back to normal with some places remaining totally non-smoking and others investing lots of dollars to segregate smoking rooms away from the general population. 

[SANDMAN5]

Its kinda hard to get it just right. I quit smoking almost 8 years ago. I don't
think anybody SHOULD smoke, but it's a personal choice. I should have the
right to go out and eat w/o breathing in second hand smoke. On the other
hand, someone else should have the same right to light up after a meal. We
have at least one restaraunt that caters to smokers. I'm sure they had to get
some kind of permit to allow smoking. The only way I can see it working, have
every eating establishment that wants to allow smoking to build two completely
separate dining rooms. One for smokers, the other for smart...uh, I mean...non-smokers.
Not even sure that would work.

[Jack]

Arkansas law forbids smoking in any public building, restaurant, place of business, etc where children under the age of 18 may be present.  You may have a smoking bar or restaurant if children are not allowed.  Legislators now in session are trying to make it illegal to smoke in all bars and restaurants, etc.  I don't smoke but sometimes go to a bar/restaurant that allows smoking just so I don't have to be bothered by the noise of children. It use not to be a personal problem but kids just don't seem to be contained by their parents like they were when I raised mine. I'd rather be annoyed by smoke.

[Brad]

A law like that passed here in Nevada a few years ago.  Most voters did not know exactly what they were voting for.  The law does not allow smoking in any place that sells or serves food.  Casinos were exempted from the law, surprise, surprise.  Bars that allowed smoking then had to stop serving food.  Many of them closed because without the food sales they no longer were profitable.  Also it gave an unfair advantage to the casinos.  Some of the sports bars and other bars tried to get around the law by opening a food take out business right next door to their bars where patrons could buy food and take it into the bar but the State declared that illegal as well.  I do not smoke but I am not a Nazi about it.  It should be a pure business decision.  If you allow smoking in your sports bar I will more than likely not patronize your business.  On the other hand I am not going to demand that you not allow smoking, there were plenty of places that were smoke free.  Now we have fewer businesses.  Think about all the restaurants that have a bar in the front or back, if food is served in the building then there is no smoking allowed.

[Trynt]

Here in Minnesota we have had a smoking ban in restaurants and all bars for the past few years.  I disagree with the governmental intrusion on principle, but have to admit that I enjoy the smoke free atmosphere. I feel somewhat sorry for smokers in that they are treated more and more like social lepers. On a related matter, last week, New York Mayor Bloomberg proposed a smoking ban for all city parks. It seems that left wing big government intrusion is indeed a slippery slope.

[HotRod]

We in the St. Louis, MO area have been under a smoking ban since January 1st of this year.  It has and continues to be a hot topic of debate.  The ban targets all public places, except bars that are small, and sell almost exclusively liquor.  Those small bars have to file an exemption and have it approved.  I don’t smoke cigarettes, but I occasionally enjoy a good cigar.

My complaint with this ban has to do with the free choice of business owners.  If a business owner feels that disallowing smoking in his business is beneficial, then he should have the right to do so.  Forcing a business owner to ban smoking when he feels it helps his business is wrong.  I know people who only go to non-smoking establishments.  If those businesses are successful in part because of their non-smoking policy, what happens when they lose that advantage? If all like businesses are forced to ban smoking, the non-smokers will likely frequent the competition, since the reason for not going has been eliminated.  This will most likely put a financial strain on the businesses that chose to be non-smoking before the ban.

Has anyone seen the effects of a smoking ban in their area?  What are you thoughts on this?

cant have BIG GOVERNMENT without the "brother"  My thoughts are to shrink the federal and state govenments down so small they spend all their time worring about running the country/state and dont have time to be sticking their noses in where it doesnt belong

+1, we have a ban here in Vegas believe it or not,not the casino's though.

[RedValk]

i hear both sides of the argument....BUT...and it's a big but...........(eh, not BUTT  ):

if only folks would be considerate we wouldn't HAVE to have laws about this. but i still remember the old days....when there were no laws. I remember sitting in my office....as a Captain in the US Air Force...with 9 other workers/military folks. 8 of them were chain smokers. Two of us, were not. the two of us were FORCED.....to sit in there....in that small confined office....day in and day out....hour after dreadful hour....and smell that smoke. TONS of smoke...as the other 8 inconsiderate folks huffed and puffed away. My eyes would water so bad....i couldn't see. When i got home, i had to take off my uniform and leave it outside for several hours....it smelled so badly of stale smoke. Heaping nasty ash trays were always sitting on their desks.

you get the picture..............

there was no rule............no law...........so we relied, on their consideration. Well, you see how that worked out. And thus, the rules/laws.
In a perfect society, you wouldn't need any laws. But alas, we don't live in a perfect society....folks aren't always considerate of others....etc. That's just the way life is, i recon'....

[solo1]

I live in New Haven.  We do not have a smoking ban.  Ft. Wayne, right next to us does.  When I was on the council we decided that the businesses should independently make their own decision without the government stepping in.  Only one business banned smoking.  The rest made some half arsed attempts at separating smoke areas from non smoking areas. That doesn't work very well.
 The bars in New Haven are especailly bad for nonsmokers, I stay out of them.  I go to Ft. Wayne for eating smoke free some of the time.  Indiana has one of the higher percentage of smokers, about 25% of the population but they are LOUD in their insistence on their rights.

All this might change.  Indiana now has a non smoking ordinance out of the House committee, to be voted on and then sent to the Senate.  This version would exempt casinos and some bars, and maybe the VFW and the American Legion.

I would like to see non smoking everywhere but not mandated by the government.   Business owners will not go no smoking by their own choice though.

I just read Red Valk's post about consideration.  I agree with him 110 %!!!!!!!!!!
Smokers have no consideration for others.   Light that SOB up and to h*** with non smokers!!!!  

[Chiefy]

We in the St. Louis, MO area have been under a smoking ban since January 1st of this year.  It has and continues to be a hot topic of debate.  The ban targets all public places, except bars that are small, and sell almost exclusively liquor.  Those small bars have to file an exemption and have it approved.  I don’t smoke cigarettes, but I occasionally enjoy a good cigar.

My complaint with this ban has to do with the free choice of business owners.  If a business owner feels that disallowing smoking in his business is beneficial, then he should have the right to do so.  Forcing a business owner to ban smoking when he feels it helps his business is wrong.  I know people who only go to non-smoking establishments.  If those businesses are successful in part because of their non-smoking policy, what happens when they lose that advantage? If all like businesses are forced to ban smoking, the non-smokers will likely frequent the competition, since the reason for not going has been eliminated.  This will most likely put a financial strain on the businesses that chose to be non-smoking before the ban.

Has anyone seen the effects of a smoking ban in their area?  What are you thoughts on this?

I lived in So California when they did this.  To the casual observer (me) there was not one bit of difference in any of the businesses I frequented.  I suppose someone could run to google and find some stats to support things one way or another, but I'm talking about what I saw firsthand.

[Bobbo]

I lived in So California when they did this.  To the casual observer (me) there was not one bit of difference in any of the businesses I frequented. 

I’m sure the area has a lot to do with the effects of a smoking ban.  I’m guessing SoCal has fewer smokers per capita than St. Louis, so a ban would have less of an effect.

[Stanley Steamer]

The State of GA has pretty much banned smoking in any public places and Athens has banned it even further....no smoking in public parks, restaurants, bars(we have ~60+ bars in a 20 block area downtown), in any County buildings, trucks, equipment.....and the County Govt, which I also work for, now charges smokers/tobacco users and extra $50/month on their Health Ins. premiums....

The Bars and restaurants complained that they would lose a lot of business, but it turned out that MORE folks started frequenting places that used to be all smoked up.....we are also the home of the Univ. of GA., so we have a "captive" audience of young farts all over town....

[Serk]

I lived in So California when they did this.  To the casual observer (me) there was not one bit of difference in any of the businesses I frequented. 

I’m sure the area has a lot to do with the effects of a smoking ban.  I’m guessing SoCal has fewer smokers per capita than St. Louis, so a ban would have less of an effect.

IMHO, it would also probably have a lot to do with how large of an area was uninterrupted ban territory...

If everything's ban area for 100+ miles, then it probably wouldn't have a major impact one way or the other.

If one city's ban territory, and the next city over is non-ban, then the smokers will naturally head to the non-ban city... Now, if enough non-smokers from the non-ban area would head to the ban area to offset the exodus the other way I'm not sure...

Personally? Government should stay outta it and let the owners of the businesses decide. If the people vote with their wallets for a place to be smoke free, then you bet that place will become smoke free, law or not...

[..]

sarcasm font] I do like it in the summer time when someone is smoking what smells like a mix of wet bus tickets and dog crap and that looks like a stick of dog crap as well. Smells so good they have to have their fist held way out of their vehicle window letting everyone share the aroma. [ sarcasm font

The bars in Roswell are all non smoking apart from two. All do a good trade. One that is smoking has very good smoke eaters. The other does not and seems to cater to only smokers.

[fudgie]

To me its no big deal. If I want to go to a place and they smoke, so be it. I know it going in there. I have a right to chose not to go there if I want. Cause I dont like something doesnt mean everyone should abide by my rules. Kit smokes and it dont bother me. SD became smoke free late last year. She thru a fit but it wont be that bad. I have asthma and a 4-6 hours in a bar takes its toll. I go get some fresh air and all is good.
Our hospital is smoke free, well it is tabacco free, thats what the policy says. They smoke and I chew. No big deal.
Sometimes I wish I did smoke. When we visit the tt bars they have a patio for the smokers. Kit gets to go smoke and visit with the dancers and I get to sit inside.  
When we go to a biker bar in the area we sit outside. Get to see the bikes roll in. I even set there if I go solo.
Sometimes a ban is a good thing.

[RoadKill]

These are a few key parts of Manhattan Ks city smoking ban. Including"Private clubs and fraternal organization facilities"
                        
Smoking shall be prohibited in the seating areas of all outdoor arenas, stadiums, and amphitheaters, as well as in bleachers, grandstands, picnic areas, playgrounds, and other seating areas for use by spectators at sporting and other outdoor public events,celebration, display, performance, ceremony, concert, show, exhibition, play, presentation or similar activity to which the public is invited or in which the public is permitted involving a defined beginning and ending time held on outdoor public property or in the case of parades, runs, fund-raising walks, or marches on City sidewalks or roadways.

The owner, operator, manager, or other person in control of a public place or place of employment shall clearly and conspicuously post and maintain in areas where the public is allowed and areas where employees are allowed signs that clearly and conspicuously state that smoking is prohibited. Such "no smoking" signs shall have bold lettering of not less than one inch in height, and/or shall contain the international "No Smoking" symbol (a pictorial representation of a burning cigarette enclosed in a red circle with red bar across it) at all entrances. Every vehicle that constitutes a place of employment under this article shall have at least one conspicuous sign, visible from the exterior of the vehicle, clearly stating that smoking is prohibited.

No owner, operator, manager, or other person in control of a public place or place of employment shall place or maintain any ashtrays in any area in which smoking is prohibited by this article.

Only place it is legal to smoke is inside your house

Sec. 17-24. - Where smoking is not regulated.

Notwithstanding any other provision of this article, private residences, except those used as a licensed child care, adult day care, or health care facility shall not be subject to the smoking restrictions of this article.


 

[Bobbo]

IMHO, it would also probably have a lot to do with how large of an area was uninterrupted ban territory...

If everything's ban area for 100+ miles, then it probably wouldn't have a major impact one way or the other.

If one city's ban territory, and the next city over is non-ban, then the smokers will naturally head to the non-ban city... Now, if enough non-smokers from the non-ban area would head to the ban area to offset the exodus the other way I'm not sure...

Personally? Government should stay outta it and let the owners of the businesses decide. If the people vote with their wallets for a place to be smoke free, then you bet that place will become smoke free, law or not...

That’s true.  Here in St. Charles (<30 miles from downtown St. Louis), there is no ban.  I don’t know if smokers are coming here from the city and St. Louis County (who also has a ban).  Most of the comments I hear are from bar and restaurant owners, who are actually getting less business or fear the loss of it.  Maybe things will settle out the longer it is in effect.  As an occasional cigar smoker, I’m used to being banned- even from many places that welcome cigarettes!

[FryeVRCCDS0067]

I quit smoking many years ago. My wife quit a little over a year ago. I'm really glad I quit when I did because I'll be danged if I'd ever quit if I thought the world was trying to force me to do so. I can't imagine how pissed I'd be if I was a business owner and smoker and was told I couldn't smoke in the building I'd built. I think even if I didn't smoke I'd probably start under those circumstances.

[old grouch]

This is one of my "pet peeves", so I will now rant.  I smoke.  I wish I didn't.  I have been trying to quit for years.  I do not want to eat in a smoke filled environment.  I have requested non smoking sections in restaraunts as long as that has been a choice.  I agree that the Government has a right to ban smoking in Public Places.   A bar or a restaraunt or a casino, or a drug store or a grocery store or any other kind of Privately Owned Establishment is NOT a Public Place!  It (they) are Privately Owned Esatblishments.  Therefore the Government has no business telling them whether or not they can allow smoking.  The public health argument holds no water.  No one is required to patronize these establishments, as they required to patronize places where the Public Business is conducted.  No one is required to work in these establishments.  If one objects to being in smoking environment, they have the choice not to go there.  This is a classic example of the Government intruding into the Private Business of the citizens.  It is not about smoking.  It is about the Government wanting control over the citizens.  What is to keep the Government from telling them next what products or brands of products they can or cannot sell?   Nothing except the common sense of the citizens exercising their RIGHTS.  Government intrusion into the Private Business of the People is indeed a very slippery slope.

[RoadKill]

I quit smoking many years ago. My wife quit a little over a year ago. I'm really glad I quit when I did because I'll be danged if I'd ever quit if I thought the world was trying to force me to do so. I can't imagine how pissed I'd be if I was a business owner and smoker and was told I couldn't smoke in the building I'd built. I think even if I didn't smoke I'd probably start under those circumstances.

I am supposed to place no smoking stickers on my personal work truck and have to remove the ash tray according to the city. I have NO employees but it is still included in the ban.

[FryeVRCCDS0067]

I quit smoking many years ago. My wife quit a little over a year ago. I'm really glad I quit when I did because I'll be danged if I'd ever quit if I thought the world was trying to force me to do so. I can't imagine how pissed I'd be if I was a business owner and smoker and was told I couldn't smoke in the building I'd built. I think even if I didn't smoke I'd probably start under those circumstances.

I am supposed to place no smoking stickers on my personal work truck and have to remove the ash tray according to the city. I have NO employees but it is still included in the ban.

That's insane! The people behind that don't even deserve to live in this country. The safety nazis will never be satisfied until everything they don't personally do is illegal for everyone. From motorcycles, to smoking, to drinking and eating french fries, they will never be satisfied until they control every facet of our lives.

[fudgie]

I am supposed to place no smoking stickers on my personal work truck and have to remove the ash tray according to the city. I have NO employees but it is still included in the ban.

Thats not a ash tray its a change holder!   Do they say how your to place the stickers? Put'm upside down.  

[RoadKill]

I am supposed to place no smoking stickers on my personal work truck and have to remove the ash tray according to the city. I have NO employees but it is still included in the ban.

Thats not a ash tray its a change holder!   Do they say how your to place the stickers? Put'm upside down.  

Such "no smoking" signs shall have bold lettering of not less than one inch in height, and/or shall contain the international "No Smoking" symbol (a pictorial representation of a burning cigarette enclosed in a red circle with red bar across it) at all entrances. Every vehicle that constitutes a place of employment under this article shall have at least one conspicuous sign, visible from the exterior of the vehicle, clearly stating that smoking is prohibited.

I dont care...I WILL NOT put them on!

[FryeVRCCDS0067]

I am supposed to place no smoking stickers on my personal work truck and have to remove the ash tray according to the city. I have NO employees but it is still included in the ban.

Thats not a ash tray its a change holder!   Do they say how your to place the stickers? Put'm upside down.  

Such "no smoking" signs shall have bold lettering of not less than one inch in height, and/or shall contain the international "No Smoking" symbol (a pictorial representation of a burning cigarette enclosed in a red circle with red bar across it) at all entrances. Every vehicle that constitutes a place of employment under this article shall have at least one conspicuous sign, visible from the exterior of the vehicle, clearly stating that smoking is prohibited.

I dont care...I WILL NOT put them on!

During the Clinton era I bought hundreds of 1" diameter RKBA stickers. (Right to Keep and Bear Arms) I would put them on gas pumps, doors, newspaper boxes, you name it just to make people think.

[bigfish_Oh]

I believe the owner should have the choice, I just will not go and did not go to eat. Bowling used to be the worst, I had to leave my clothes outside when I went home. I'm not worried about second hand smoke. I'm worried about the immediate stench, I'd rather be out shoveling cow sh** barefoot. I have never had a smoker offer to pay for my migraine medication to help what he caused, or compensate me for the next 3-6 hours of time down. I left a small hamburger shop last week before I was finished because of the smell from the person's clothe's that came in and sat next to me. too much perfume of aftershave is just as bad, 4 wheel road trip rules are "no chemicals", plus my wife ruined paint from a leak years ago on my '82 X.

I pipe usually smells good and does not bother me, most cigars are bearable.

I live in the country and can see a 5000 head hog farm up wind, I smell more smokers in a month driving by than I have hogs in over 5 years.

[Misfit]

A non-smoker does not have any effect on a smoker. As Tim said, a smoker has a huge effect on a non-smoker.

[Bobbo]

A non-smoker does not have any effect on a smoker. As Tim said, a smoker has a huge effect on a non-smoker.

A non-smoker can affect a smoker by convincing the local law makers that smoking should be banned in places they never visit.

[Challenger]

I don't think it has anything to do with smokers or non smokers, It has to do with Insurance companies and lobbyists. Ins companies spend billions on health care for long term smokers and they want to cut their losses.

[Misfit]

A non-smoker does not have any effect on a smoker. As Tim said, a smoker has a huge effect on a non-smoker.

A non-smoker can affect a smoker by convincing the local law makers that smoking should be banned in places they never visit.

How do you know where I visit?

[RoadKill]

A non-smoker does not have any effect on a smoker. As Tim said, a smoker has a huge effect on a non-smoker.

A non-smoker can affect a smoker by convincing the local law makers that smoking should be banned in places they never visit.

How do you know where I visit?

You DAMN sure do not Visit my personal truck! 

[R J]

I don't think it has anything to do with smokers or non smokers, It has to do with Insurance companies and lobbyists. Ins companies spend billions on health care for long term smokers and they want to cut their losses.

10-04 on this response.


He hit the nail on the head.

My Insurance Company puts out $5,263 a year for the meds I take from smoking all those years.   1 prescription alone, my share is $158.00 a month, and I take 12 meds, 13 counting the $158 one.

So, it is the Insurance Company behind this non-smoking push.   The Govt is the one who has to pass it, and they please their bread and butter, the Ins Company.

[RoadKill]

My skin sunburns easily,my eyes can not handle fat chicks in spandex and my ears are sensitive to loud rap music! When they ban sunshine and windows and loud rap music and 1/2 of the people wandering around walmart I will vote for a smoking ban....

[Bobbo]

A non-smoker does not have any effect on a smoker. As Tim said, a smoker has a huge effect on a non-smoker.

A non-smoker can affect a smoker by convincing the local law makers that smoking should be banned in places they never visit.

How do you know where I visit?

Unless you regularly visit every business in Colorado, I would say a smoking ban affects the places you don't visit.

[hotglue #43]

If smokin bothers Ya... don't come to the Gatherin of the Fools..... I smoke the briskets 18 hrs.... ya might get some of that smoke on ya and have ta leave your clothes outside or whatever yer sensitive self feels ya need ta do......I know... that after the BBQ.. it takes 3 or 4 days to get the smoke smells out of my nose......
HEY....maybe I need to quit doin the BBQ thing!!!!!!!!



Naaaa.... guess I'll just have ta tough it out.......... Like Y'all will have to do if ya come......

BTW...... I smoke.... grow and age my own tobacco..... so all of ya sensitive sorts... just walk up wind!   

I am considerate.... and will try not to involve others with my smoke.

[Bobbo]

If smokin bothers Ya... don't come to the Gatherin of the Fools..... I smoke the briskets 18 hrs.... ya might get some of that smoke on ya and have ta leave your clothes outside or whatever yer sensitive self feels ya need ta do......I know... that after the BBQ.. it takes 3 or 4 days to get the smoke smells out of my nose......
HEY....maybe I need to quit doin the BBQ thing!!!!!!!!



Naaaa.... guess I'll just have ta tough it out.......... Like Y'all will have to do if ya come......

BTW...... I smoke.... grow and age my own tobacco..... so all of ya sensitive sorts... just walk up wind!   

I am considerate.... and will try not to involve others with my smoke.

Now, that's the type of smokin' I love!

[highcountry]

Colorado passed a law a couple of years ago banning smoking in any public place including outside around doorways, etc.  Except for tobacco shops.  A wonderful law.  Should happen everywhere.  I have never been a smoker and detest it.  But I am old enough that I had to endure flying in the '60s with no bans.  Nothing like a middle seat with smokers on either side.  Trust me, they didn't give a crap about me breathing their second-hand smoke.

Sorry about the rant, that's my story and I am sticking to it. 

[RoadKill]

Colorado passed a law a couple of years ago banning smoking in any public place including outside around doorways, etc.  Except for tobacco shops.  A wonderful law.  Should happen everywhere.  I have never been a smoker and detest it.  But I am old enough that I had to endure flying in the '60s with no bans.  Nothing like a middle seat with smokers on either side.  Trust me, they didn't give a crap about me breathing their second-hand smoke.

Sorry about the rant, that's my story and I am sticking to it. 

Now you just have to sit by a fat man in spandex wearing too much "Scent of a skunk" cologne while he turns up his I pod so loud you can hear it from his head phones and you are STILL breathing in his CO2 and that cheese burger he ate as well as the one he had yesterday that is now venting from another orifice. At least you know he didnt bring any nail clippers on the plane!

[hotglue #43]

Now....That's Offensive!!!!!!!  I would rather eat with smokers than with folk marinated in cheap perfume...... or marinated in  any perfume!!!!  
  Ya see... smokers can be sensitive........
May have ta dig up my Hurt Feeling Report.......

[BF]

Has anyone seen the effects of a smoking ban in their area?

The air is alot cleaner.....and it's easier to breath.