Riding through GA on your way to Daytona?? READ THIS FIRST!!

[G-Man]

It is interesting that some here who cheer Arizona indiscriminately stopping Hispanic people and asking them to prove citizenship are upset that motorcyclists are similarly stopped.  Both are simply fishing expeditions in the hopes of finding a lawbreaker.  I consider both an infringement on peaceably going about your life.  I don’t want to steer this thread towards immigration, but thought it was an interesting observation.

Nope, Bobbo, you are dead wrong on this one!  This is COMPLETELY different.  (I can't freakin' believe I have to spell this crap out again).  In AZ. one CAN NOT be stopped by the law unless they are committing an offense.  Then, AND ONLY THEN, can they be asked for identification.  Same as anyone, or anywhere else.  When the person committing the offense does not, will not, or produce bogus identification, then AND ONLY THEN can the LEO can take it further and question citizenship.  Citizenship CAN NOT be questioned just for going out for ice cream as your hero in cheif vomited up.

But you go on perpetuating bullshit, Bobbo.  You're getting pretty good at it.  Maybe eventually you and Obama will fool the rest of us into believing this horseshit.

[Skinhead]

It is interesting that some here who cheer Arizona indiscriminately stopping Hispanic people and asking them to prove citizenship are upset that motorcyclists are similarly stopped.  Both are simply fishing expeditions in the hopes of finding a lawbreaker.  I consider both an infringement on peaceably going about your life.  I don’t want to steer this thread towards immigration, but thought it was an interesting observation.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that the Arizona law prohibited indiscriminate stopping of suspected illegals, but required them to provide proof of citizenship after contact with an LEO.  The motorcycle checkpoints are targeting all motorcyclists, which is profiling, which I will grudingly approve IF it is also used in airport security screening.  Other wise you must stop everyone which would violate the 4th (?) ammendment.

[Bobbo]

Nope, Bobbo, you are dead wrong on this one!  This is COMPLETELY different.  (I can't freakin' believe I have to spell this crap out again).  In AZ. one CAN NOT be stopped by the law unless they are committing an offense.  Then, AND ONLY THEN, can they be asked for identification.  Same as anyone, or anywhere else.  When the person committing the offense does not, will not, or produce bogus identification, then AND ONLY THEN can the LEO can take it further and question citizenship.  Citizenship CAN NOT be questioned just for going out for ice cream as your hero in cheif vomited up.

But you go on perpetuating bullshit, Bobbo.  You're getting pretty good at it.  Maybe eventually you and Obama will fool the rest of us into believing this horseshit.

The original bill submitted in Arizona used the phrase “lawful contact”, of which there was no definition or legal precedence.  The bill has been rewritten several times and that phrase was changed into a more specific one that limits police to lawful detention or arrest.

My point was that there were many comments here that saw no problem with the original wording of the bill, and cheered it on for passage.  The posters weren’t concerned with vague or ambiguous wording, and didn’t seem to care that it could allow police to stop and question someone without legal cause.

Many of those same posters now condemn the MOC’s as an invasion of privacy, and object to police pulling them over for no legal reason.  That’s where I make the comparison.

[Skinhead]

Many of those same posters now condemn the MOC’s as an invasion of privacy, and object to police pulling them over for no legal reason.  That’s where I make the comparison.

I say we change the check points so they can only stop motorcycles driven by illegals....  PROBLEM SOLVED!!!!! 

[G-Man]

The original bill submitted in Arizona used the phrase “lawful contact”, ..............Many of those same posters now condemn the MOC’s as an invasion of privacy, and object to police pulling them over for no legal reason.  That’s where I make the comparison.

That's just semantics.  And the semantics were the reason the bill had to be more "defined".  Another poster was correct in saying that the law, even in it's original form, would never have given the OK to stop someone going for ice cream because every pro-immigration entity will be watching and waiting for the first slip up and nobody is gonna risk their livelihoods.  It was the opposition spinning the intent, forcing any "revisions" to the "wording" to avoid semantics.

Still two different animals altogether.  This thing stops people riding a vehicle with less than 4 wheels in the absence of cause.  A very straight forward, unmistakable thing.  The opposition to the AZ law tried to make looking for "Hispanics" or "Latinos" a straight forward thing.......which it is not and highly mistakable.  Afterall, what does an Hispanic or Latino look like?  I work with a woman from Mexico who has fairer skin coloring than I do.  And Manny Sosa is darker than my wife (from Jamaica).  But you still don't see how silly it all sounds?

Here's my twist.  I think those that are in opposition of the AZ law are the racists because they continue to believe that Hispanics look a certain way.   

[Bobbo]

That's just semantics.

Semantics is what separates good laws from bad.

Still two different animals altogether.  This thing stops people riding a vehicle with less than 4 wheels in the absence of cause.  A very straight forward, unmistakable thing.  The opposition to the AZ law tried to make looking for "Hispanics" or "Latinos" a straight forward thing.......which it is not and highly mistakable.  Afterall, what does an Hispanic or Latino look like?  I work with a woman from Mexico who has fairer skin coloring than I do.  And Manny Sosa is darker than my wife (from Jamaica).  But you still don't see how silly it all sounds?

Here's my twist.  I think those that are in opposition of the AZ law are the racists because they continue to believe that Hispanics look a certain way.   

My opposition to parts of the AZ bill had to do with the vague wording that could give government (police) nearly unrestricted liberty to detain people on a hunch they were illegal.

I cannot tell you what a Hispanic looks like any more than I can tell you what a biker looks like.

[Daniel Meyer]

How do you show (prove) vehicle ownership out of state?

Why would I have to? We don't have to own the vehicle we are driving/riding.

Agreed.  I'm only talking worst case scenario where you are far from home and being harassed; for instance by a rookie cop who doesn't believe the story that TX has no registration, or at some Federal harassment inspection. That is all.

Not worried about it. When you're up against one 'O those guys, it doesn't matter what kind of paperwork you are carrying. Wouldn't matter if I had the sales receipt. If you are being hassled by one of them, it's because that is what they have set out to do and there's not much you can do to change it other than stay calm and take mental notes for the complaint you are going to file later.

[Chillerman]

How do you show (prove) vehicle ownership out of state?

Why would I have to? We don't have to own the vehicle we are driving/riding.

In Colorado you are asked for your registration if you are stopped.  Not to prove that you are the owner of the vehicle, but to ensure that it is registered and the tags on your plate have not been stolen.  I had an officer tell me after a fender bender (in my cage) that they didn't really care if you had a current registration or not as long as your drivers license and insurance were current.

[fudgie]

Curious?  The comment about "Florida is involved" .  Doesn't "Florida" rake in a ton of money during these events?  Wouldn't these JBT check points hinder that collect?  It would seem that a good portion of people would choose not to go therefor putting a hit on spending money in Florida.

Yes and no. Some would but others would just go around the State and avoid the road blocks. Your veteran rally goers will do what they have to to go. Word of mouth, you can find the road blocks.
Its usually the town the rally is in that has the ill effects on bikers attending. Strickter laws= low attendance.

[Jabba]

I just wish they'd do SOMETHING with the illegals they actually DO catch.

Hell, I got an illegal guy that lives next door.  Hard working guy.  Nice enough.  Been here since he was 14.  Works his ass off.  Can't drive for crap.  He's been in quite a few accidents, including DUI, and they put him on probation with an ankle alcohol monitor! 

Send him back to Mexico!

Secure the border, allow XX,XXX of them thru the gate every day, as long as they are not identified as having criminal violations.  Finger print them all on the way thru.  When they break the law, toss them back over the wall never to be allowed back in.  There should also be a one way door going from the USA into mexico that any of them can use at ANY time.  So they all have the opportunity to come back thru legally.

Jabba

[G-Man]

Curious?  The comment about "Florida is involved" .  Doesn't "Florida" rake in a ton of money during these events?  Wouldn't these JBT check points hinder that collect?  It would seem that a good portion of people would choose not to go therefor putting a hit on spending money in Florida.

I've noted that local municipalities will bite their own noses off to spite their own face.  In the next town, Ardsley, NY, we had a car and bike show every Monday night at a large strip mall type shopping center.  In the shopping center were two eateries, a sports shop, a UPS store, etc.  All the shops did a bang up business, as well as the Dunkin Donuts down the road and the gas stations in the town.  The local gov't decided to not allow the show to continue there (don't know why), so it moved to another town that is now reaping the benefits of hundreds of people spending money.

[G-Man]

Secure the border, allow XX,XXX of them thru the gate every day, as long as they are not identified as having criminal violations.  Finger print them all on the way thru.  When they break the law, toss them back over the wall never to be allowed back in.  There should also be a one way door going from the USA into mexico that any of them can use at ANY time.  So they all have the opportunity to come back thru legally.

Jabba

You make too much sense, Jabba!  Our gov't can't handle laws and formulas that make sense.