It's been a bad week.

[fordmano]

Really a VERY bad week.

without going thru it all and ending up in tears again over it..

I had to remove my oldest son from my household today, it should have happened this past Monday but today was the day.

He is almost 19 and has treated his Mother, his little brother and especially Me like we were worth less than SH!T.  He really is not one of your typical bad kids actually outside of the home when he is away from us he seems like a fairly good kid, he is VERY intelligent but he is stupid. My health has been declining over the last 5-6 years now, stress and lifestyle are the main culprits but the stress is predominately brought on by my sons actions and attitude at home toward us his family..

My kids have NEVER EVER gone without anything the needed and have gotten almost everything they have ever wanted. I was told by my son well over a year ago that he hated me ( kinda normal father son relationship in a disfunctional family) and he hated me because I have bought him too many things??? WHAT THE F*(k, he claims I have tried to buy his love that is not there.

Both my kids only have a couple chores they are responsible for (and they get allowence for doing them) and his since he is the older one he gets to mow the back yard lawn with a self propelled gas mower (lawn is 20'X55') every other week and and the front yard on opposite weeks. He must pick up after the 2 dogs before he mows and little brother picks up after dogs on the other weeks. He is required to take out the kitchen trash .. and now he thinks he does not need to do anything .. My yards have not been mowed in almost 6 weeks and guess what has not been picked up completly in those weeks.

OH HELL.. thanks for listening.. that's about all I can stand to share right now... No counseling is not what we need not today not right now, he just needs to be away from what he thinks he is entittled to and grow up a bit even though it tears my heart out to do it. My father did it to me when I turned 18y/o and I was a bad kid Ii did lots of bad things and luckily never got caught or hurt.

[Russell Rice]

I was raised by the 18/30 rule..... Once you turn 18 you have 30 days to move out
I was told last week by my Youngest Son ( 17 years old ) that the only chore that he should  do is keep a low profile and not get into any trouble. His chores here are to pick up the yard before I mow it, take out the trash and do the dishes( we have a dish washer) every night and that is to much for him to do. I took the internet,computer,video games and cell phone away from him. He has joined the Navy and will go to boot camp when he gets out of high school He to is a smart kid but kids today belive that they should get any and everything they want without being part of the family. He is not intrested in getting his drivers permit and not intrested in cars or motorcycles at all. Refuses to go riding with me and his Mother. He is going to be in for a rude awaking when he gets out on his own and has to pay his on bills and get off him mommas teat and that is going to be GREAT for him to see what it is really like to pay bills and I am betting he will not have a cell phone with internet access and unlimited texting! I love my Sons as much as any Father could but some times they need a kick in the a$$ to see what life is all about! Your not alone there are other Fathers out here that feel the same way you do!!!!!

[R J]

In Boot Camp he is going to be in for a rude awaking.     He will learn that now, means "NOW".

You won't recognize him by his actions when he gets out of Boot Camp, will be a totally different person.

[Valkahuna]

Boot Camp is not what it was when I went through in 1967.  Some of my nephew and nieces sons have joined the Marines, Army, and Coast Guard, and I am amazed at how much it has changed since I was in.  ???

Oh well, sign of the times! Those boys have a lot of issues to face that I did not when I was in from 1967 to 1972. I guess the military has to change just to keep pace with everything else that is no longer "the way it was".

Sorry you guys are having all these heart aches raisin' your sons. Hope they realize what they have with you and wise up before it's too late.

[junior]

i assume that these "kids" are from your own blood? you otto try to be the stepdad and see how you get treated. what ever happen to the days of do as your are told and dont talk back?

so i feel your pain there guys

[bigfish_Oh]

In Boot Camp he is going to be in for a rude awaking.     He will learn that now, means "NOW".

You won't recognize him by his actions when he gets out of Boot Camp, will be a totally different person.

2 years and a lance corp. promotion and being a shooting coach in the Marines did not change my son, he just knew how to put on a better show. All I can figure is they saw thru him enough that he did not get called back for gulf or anything after.

My wifes 2 who I have lived with since before they went to school have been given everything(and church) and still are getting. Her idea of grounding was $5.00 to go to movies instead of $10. She accused me of being cruel when I expected them to eat from the dishes they washed , dried and put in cupboard(still dirty). They are both college grads and successful, with successful spouses. I feel fortunate I was there to at least try to balance it out.

[Jabba]

My son is REALLY going to think I am a dick when he gets older.  He already has to clean his toys up every night, and help with putting groceries away.  He just turned 4.

I feel for you guys with unruly sons.  I hope I don't join your group.

I was a great kid, and NEVER did ANYTHING wrong.  I was a blessing and a joy for my parents.

Jabba

[Mr.BubblesVRCCDS0008]

It'll take him a couple for years and a few screw-ups to see just how smart you are and how good he had it. That what it did me a long time ago. With the grace of God you'll both survive. Good luck.

[sugerbear]

my #2 son( no pun intended), hated taking orders from me or his mother.
quit school as soon as he could. ran with a "bad" crowd. got arrested a few times (nothing major)

couldn't stand me any more and joined the job corp (without checking it out. he he)

came home pretty much a changed young man!!

he thought he was a bad a$$ until he met some REALLY bass a$$ people in Salt Lake City job corp. found out what it was like living in a dry county.

now 8 years later, we are the best of friends. we talk about every day on the phone.

hang in there, maybe it'll get better

[9Ball]

good luck...

Tough love really does work.  I have a daughter that will be 39 this year that was put out of my house when she was 16....she's a beautiful person today, I have 2 grandsons (that need a little discipline, but that's another story) and we've never been closer.  It's a gut-wrenching decision you've made and it brings back a lot of strong emotions to me hearing of your current problem.

You will begin sleeping better almost immediately and the stress will go away.  Once they are legally an adult, you've done all you can.

Be there with an open mind and understanding, but keep the checkbook and free room and board off limits.

[Varmintmist]

Fordmano

Don' beat yourself up. I got "You can come back anytime you want to, for a visit" when I was 17, and honestly I didnt give my parents a real hard time. I had plenty of chores and a job.

He is a whiner. If he ever again tells you that he hates you because you gave him stuff, hand him a bill and tell him if it makes him feel better he can pay you back.

Mowing a postage stamp isn't a big deal. Currently my 11 year old cuts ours with a push mower, the rider blew up. I have 360' of road frontage and its at least 100' deep, for the front. We heat with wood, so there is cutting splitting and stacking and that is a family thing, 3 dogs and that is a kid chore, and he takes out the garbage and burns the trash. I don't do allowance.

In about 4 years he will start to see that you are not that dumb. As we all got older our parents got smarter. If at that point he still "hates" you, remember you cant please everyone. Because they are family doesn't mean that they cant be jerks.

Its part of being a dad. Push him out of the nest, and wish him luck being a adult.  Booting him out is what he needs and is a life lesson. Its his turn to make it on his own like it was ours a while ago.

[Jabba]

I left to go to college voluntarily before I turned 18.  Never went home.  Parents moved out of state about 2 months after I left for college.

I screwed college up.  Lost my scholarship.  Drifted for a bit.  Lived without electricity for 6 months or so.  Finally joined the Navy 3 days after my 21st B-Day.  Wow... 21 years ago.

That taught me a lot about getting up to go to work even when you don't feel like it.  Of fessing up to my errors and simply accepting the consequences for my choices.

He'll be OK.

Good luck.

Jabba 

[RainMaker]

Every situation is different and all I offer is my prayers and hope for a future better relationship.  I am not wise enough to give advice but know you will do the best that you can do.

[Skinhead]

I never gave my dad too much trouble, Worked and made my own money since I was in 4th grade, not only cut his grass, but many neighbors as well to make money.  Cleaning the basement, garage, and working on the cars were mine and my brothers jobs as well.  My dad and I had our share of disagreements while I was in high school, he had made me very independent, and I did not like being told what I could do or when.  Bought my own car and motorcycle at 16, paid for my insurance.  Got a suitcase for my 18th birthday, joined the Army the day after.  I wrote my dad from boot camp and told him I couldn't believe how smart he had gotten in the last couple weeks.  He passed away 6 years ago and I miss him dearly.  Hopefully your son will come around.  You did the right thing.  Hope it works out.

[Mikey]

fordmano,

I was the same way with my parents. I'm 25 now, and every day until the day I moved out, I was a huge pain in the ass. My parents never let me want for anything, but they never let me have it for free. I always thought they were being hard on me... etc. It took me till about the time I was 20 or 21 to figure out that my parents knew what they were doing. I threw a lot of excuses about why I thought they didn't love me when I was younger, but now I realize that they did those things because they loved me. It took me a while of living on my own to figure that out. Be patient buddy.

[solo1]

I never had any trouble with any of my kids.  Three sons and one daughter.  They knew the rules.  The only thing given to them was tough love.  They earned everything and didn't complain (well, not too much).

No advice from me here.

[fordmano]

I just want to thank all of you for helping make feel like I am not alone. I have known since he was about 11-12 y/o this day would come just figured it would start bit later and boil over to this point a bit sooner. Really I feel like I have gotten my spine back.

I just rolled into the drive way a couple minutes ago 04:55 in the dark O clock and now I have to go in the house and face the wife, I know he needed a hard kick in the A$$ just figured a couple light kicks would have done the job. Oh well.

My father and I had a very strained relationship especially after my Mother past away at age 53 and I was only 17y/o she had been sick a long time and it was better for her but that really drive a wedge between me and my Dad but he had some mental issues and her passing made them worse. A few weeks after I turned 18 we got into a HUGE fight and when he left for his summer vacation that year he told me be gone when I get back and so I left the day before he did and never moved back home until I had my mothers best friend buy my Dads house from him and then turn around and sell it to me at cost and she had negotiated with him to about 20k under market pricing and carried the note for me. When my father had a major stroke. Few years ago he must have known his time was short since about 6 months prior he had asked me to be power of attorney for him and I agreed ( did not like him but he was still DAD) then he had the stroke and I acquired guardianship over him and finally had to bury him year before last it really hurt and my sons was able to see how you tend to your parents even if you don't like them.... I figured that sort of thing would help him straighten up bit it hasn't and now the wife is after my throat with tHe bullshot of don't make mentioned between my son and my husband I told her there is no choice either he leaves or I do and I walked out and went to work to earn the money it takes to run my household by my rules.

Thanks again for being here to vent with and insure with my Multipoint project was done I need to ride and get things right between me and the Lord again. I may step out in the next day or two and buy a new bike so I can ride.

Thank you and good night for now...

[fordmano]

Yes both my sons are my blood and were planned married 8 years before we even tried to have kids infertility made us work for it and after a few years and a few miscarriages my wife gave birth to a perfectly healthy son. He was as perfect of a baby we could have had rarely cried never sick always happy but never really wanted to be held much and he walked shortly after 8 months old was able to use a mouse and keyboard before he ever spoke real words when he spoke for the fist time at 15 months old it was a clear complete sentence and he never babbled. He is ADHD and is extremely mechanical and intelligent but dumb as a board about relationship stuff. He needs a GOOD girlfriend to help get him inline with how to treat people.

He does not drink smoke or use any illegal or dangerous substances at all, I am sure of it since I lived through me and one of my sisters being whacko party animals I know what to look and how it is all used and stored in know the tricks he is clean.

Damn this sucks it's now 05:30 and I am still sitting here in my drive way typing on my damn phone.
He is staying at his grandparents house 4 blocks away my wife made sure he got there safely In the mustang GT I bought him for his 17th birthday andIpay the insurance and registration on that badboy.

I going to bed as soon as I get into the house tale all the pills and injections that are keeping me alive,,, good night all and God Bless you all.

[Big Rig]

fordmano,

Things are tough now, kids never think that being a parent is HARD...they just know that you as a Dad yell alot. We as parents know what we are doing.

In time things will get better. Do not shut hom out of your life. What you did should help him figure things out for himself. I do not think the GF will be the influnce you hope, he needs to find his own way in life as we all have. Let hif grandparents know you are there for them if they need it.

He will eventually realize what you have done for him and appreciate that kick in the arse.

Tough days ahead, but they will get better for both of you.

Prayers and positive waves coming your way.

[slider]

I went thru the tough guy routine when I was growing up.joined the Navy when I wsa 17 and was across the water as a medic at 18--I am amzed at how smart my dad got the older I got..found out he was a very smart man.and told him so after I came home on leave.and I bet your boy finds out that Dad is a smart feller after all.Hang tough man..It will work out!~~!

[Spirited-6]

FORDMANO, you need MORE HELP than can be had on this FORUM.  301 views and I wonder why many more have not responded, lost for words would be my guess. Dear Friend, you need more help than you can recieve here. 
Bless you and good LUCK !

[Jess from VA]

When I was a boy of fourteen, my father was so ignorant I could hardly stand to have the old man around.  But when I got to be twenty-one, I was astonished at how much he had learned in seven years.  ~Mark Twain, "Old Times on the Mississippi" Atlantic Monthly, 1874

I realize this may not be a popular attitude, but I decided I didn't want kids at 16 (I did every imaginable job I could as a kid, including baby sitting for horrible, spoiled children who I was not allowed to discipline).  I later walked into the USAF hospital and got neutered early in life, and never sorry.   

[Bob E.]

I really feel for you man.  I'm in the same boat with my step-daughter.  We had to have her removed from our house about a year and a half ago...and she was only 12 (now almost 14).  Among other things, she has ADHD and is likely bi-polar (they don't typically diagnose kids her age with bi-polar) and her behaviors had become so destructive and dangerous to all of us, that we had to get some professional help. I won't go into the details here, but we've been visited/investigated by CYS and she's tried to have me arrested twice because she wants me and her mom to get a divorce.  In all cases, they determined she was lying and she recanted her accusations.  We had/have been through nearly every level of available mental health treatment and nothing was working.  This was our last resort.  So now she resides in a sort-of foster home, attends a special school, and comes home every other weekend.  They are trying to "rehabilitate" her so she can come home eventually.  And she does show periods of progress.  But that is usually followed by a period of regression soon after.  In fact, she's now in her 2nd foster home because she became so violent and abusive at the first one, she had to be removed from there as well.  It's sad really because she is quite smart and has alot of potential.  But she choses manipulative and destructive behaviors in order to get her way.  And frankly, I have long ago lost much hope for her ever being successful in her life.  I truly believe that she'll either end up pregnant, on drugs (or both), or end up committing suicide.  I hope I'm wrong.

[WylieGibbs]

My father and I had a very strained relationship especially after my Mother past away at age 53 and I was only 17y/o she had been sick a long time and it was better for her but that really drive a wedge between me and my Dad but he had some mental issues and her passing made them worse. A few weeks after I turned 18 we got into a HUGE fight and when he left for his summer vacation that year he told me be gone when I get back and so I left .

Sounds like you recreated your own childhood for your kids. You also noted your father was mentally ill. Is that at play now either with your son or you? It can run in families.
Is anyone abusing drugs or alcohol? Problems other familes can solve, addicts dont.
You come off sounding like an innocent in this whole thing. I have not met too many innocents in my life.
You are going to need some help, because this does not sound like normal teen rebellion. This sounds like a seriously ill family. All the empathy and sympathy from online Bud's won't fix it.

WG

[Willow]

Sometimes I miss the old days.  My father's position was, "Until you're eighteen you don't own anything. After you're eighteen I don't owe you anything."

He wasn't absolutely consistent on either count, but it settled the issue of entitlement for me.  I left home to join the Marine Corps at seventeen.  I honestly wasn't a particularly good son.  I loved my father dearly until the day he died and I regret deeply the pain I caused him and what he had to give up so I could have what he thought I needed.

With my own children (eight of them) my own perspective was that under my roof I demand your respect and I'm not that concerned with whether you love me.  They're all gone now, some in gentle transition some with much turmoil.  I've cried for all of them at one time or another.

I've not been a particularly good parent, so I wouldn't hold myself up as an example, but there comes a time when a man simply must be a man, and that applies to both ends of the father-son relationship.

[Linedog]

You know I had a boss tell me one time that there will come a time when your kid thinks your dumber than a box of rocks.  Then about 22 or 23 they will realize that your not as dumb as they thought you were.  Most kids are like starlings.  They leave but they come back! Have faith things will get better. Wish you the best!  Linedog

[JimC]

fordmano,

I went through some of the same things with my son. He was not spoiled, he worked for the extra things that he wanted, the necessities were provided for him and his sisters. When he quit college he came home and started to act up. He was hanging out in the bars until closing, coming home at 2am and slamming car doors, waking up the dogs, getting them barking, therefore waking up the entire household.

We had a heart to heart, I told him he was welcome as long as he obeyed the rules. MY RULES and they were just common courtesy rules at that. Well he only lasted about a month and I packed his car with his clothes.  I again told him he would be welcome when he wanted to live like part of the family, not just using our home as a hotel.

Well I can tell you that there is hope, he got married about 5 years ago, has two beautifull children and a lovely wife, he has started his own contracting busines and is doing really well even in this economy he is turning work down. The real kicker is that just last week he was appointed to the city plan commission by the mayor, at 30 years old. I could not be more proud of how he has turned out, even though I had my doubts.

I hope your situation turns out as well.

Jim

[f6john]

      My son is 31 now and doing well for himself. At 17, while not a bad kid, he had all the answers and expected us to conform. That didn't work too well and it really caused a lot of stress for my wife. When my son said he was moving out, which he certainly wasn't prepared for, my wife told him at the door "If you leave, your not coming back!" I stopped him and told him "As long as I have a roof over my head, you will have a place to come back to. But it will be as always my house and my rules." Never in my life time has family been more important than it is today. Important thing is to keep lines of communication open. Chances are on your side that he will start to view the world differently once he is really on his own.

    Even though our situations were sort of the opposite of each other the heart gets pulled on either way. I'm hoping he learns how important family is also, and the sooner the better.

[Dragonryder2]

It is a sign of the time, I think.

Just went through the exact same thing with Step grand-son.  His dad had to remove him from the house and he is only 15.

Military school sounds better and better for some kids.   I don't think Girls are any easier to raise now either.

Take a deep breath, this too shall pass.

[Gear Jammer]

Best of luck.  The probablility of getting finger cramps from typing so many words prevents me from offering the saga of my two sons.     Time rolls on.............

[GreenLantern57]

Hope you can get some sleep! Sometimes grandparents can help. Sometimes they make things worse.  My mom for example.
I was not that kid, but no angel either. Read the riot act to my oldest several times in HS and he turned out OK. My other son is no angel either, but a real good son and husband.
But my 3 brothers have been in and out of trouble all thier adult lives.  One spent time in fed pen. Youngest should. The other can't seem to find a sane woman to live with. 
Jury is still out on me!   

Life, it is what it is.

[musclehead]

Really a VERY bad week.

without going thru it all and ending up in tears again over it..

I had to remove my oldest son from my household today, it should have happened this past Monday but today was the day.

He is almost 19 and has treated his Mother, his little brother and especially Me like we were worth less than SH!T.  He really is not one of your typical bad kids actually outside of the home when he is away from us he seems like a fairly good kid, he is VERY intelligent but he is stupid. My health has been declining over the last 5-6 years now, stress and lifestyle are the main culprits but the stress is predominately brought on by my sons actions and attitude at home toward us his family..

My kids have NEVER EVER gone without anything the needed and have gotten almost everything they have ever wanted. I was told by my son well over a year ago that he hated me ( kinda normal father son relationship in a disfunctional family) and he hated me because I have bought him too many things??? WHAT THE F*(k, he claims I have tried to buy his love that is not there.

Both my kids only have a couple chores they are responsible for (and they get allowence for doing them) and his since he is the older one he gets to mow the back yard lawn with a self propelled gas mower (lawn is 20'X55') every other week and and the front yard on opposite weeks. He must pick up after the 2 dogs before he mows and little brother picks up after dogs on the other weeks. He is required to take out the kitchen trash .. and now he thinks he does not need to do anything .. My yards have not been mowed in almost 6 weeks and guess what has not been picked up completly in those weeks.

OH HELL.. thanks for listening.. that's about all I can stand to share right now... No counseling is not what we need not today not right now, he just needs to be away from what he thinks he is entittled to and grow up a bit even though it tears my heart out to do it. My father did it to me when I turned 18y/o and I was a bad kid Ii did lots of bad things and luckily never got caught or hurt.

"do not handicap your children by making thier lives easy" Robert Heinlein 

they will grow up some day, we only hope we live to see it. I've got a daughter, we raised her to be independant. she's so independant we almost never hear from her. good luck my friend.

[alph]

Fordmano

If he ever again tells you that he hates you because you gave him stuff, hand him a bill and tell him if it makes him feel better he can pay you back.

Mowing a postage stamp isn't a big deal.

Every situation is different and all I offer is my prayers and hope for a future better relationship.  I am not wise enough to give advice but know you will do the best that you can do.

Good advice from Varmintmist, and RainMaker!! 

Fordmano;

First off, you live in sunny California.  That’s your first mistake.  You should live here, in gods country, were you have to spent six months of the year cramped up in a house WITH YOUR KIDS ‘cause it’s so fricking cold outside your pee freezes before it hits the snow!!  Second, WHAT THE HELL YOU DOING BUYING A 17 YEAR OLD A MUSTANGE GT!!  Let alone, pay the insurance!!! 

No one can say what you’re doing is right or wrong, or that you should have done this, or that.  There is no instruction manual given out at the hospitals for raising children, but our government will tell you it “takes a village”.  There will always be some arrogant 20 year old putz that’ll say “when I’m a father I won’t do that to my kid!!”  As if they’re going to be a better parent.  Being a parent is the hardest thing you will ever do.  I don’t care how smart you try to be, I don’t care how many books you read, your kid is only one friendship away from ending up a doctor, or druggie. 

He’s 19, let him live his life, let him make his own mistakes.  He fell a few times when he was learning to walk, this is just the same thing all over again.  Every bird gets kicked out of the nest before they can learn to fly!!  It’s the same thing.  You have to kick him out, before he can start to soar. 

When my daughter was 11 I told her that I was going to be so sad when she left home.  She is the most precious thing in my life.  She’s 17 now, no longer an angel.  She started dating a married guy that has a kid.  When I found out I was furious.  I couldn’t believe I raised someone so stupid.  Took away her car, cellphone, changed the wi-fi password, basically cut her off from the world.  Then I asked myself, lets see how stupid she is.  Gave her back all those things, and waited to see what she will do. I found out that she doesn’t see the guy anymore as a boyfriend, but she does still talk to him.  I’ve told her what she’s doing is wrong, now it’s up to her to do the right thing.  That’s all we can do as parents.  Show them how to soar, and then we have to kick them out of the nest……

Good luck…

Al.

[alph]

i forgot to mention;

it's easy to love a child, an adult is a different story, your child has turned into an adult.....  but he will always be your child.....