National Right to Carry Bill

[Gear Jammer]

Last week, H.R. 822, was introduced in the U.S. House by Representatives Cliff Stearns (R-Fla.) and Heath Schuler (D-N.C.).  The measure would allow any person with a valid state-issued concealed carry permit to carry a concealed firearm in any state that issues concealed firearm permits, or that does not prohibit the carrying of concealed firearms. A state's laws governing where concealed firearms may be carried would apply within its borders. The bill also applies to Washington, D.C., Puerto Rico and U.S. territories.      

H.R. 822 would not create a federal licensing system.  Rather, it would require the states to recognize each others' carry permits, just as they recognize drivers' licenses and carry permits held by armored car guards. Rep. Stearns has introduced such legislation since 1995.

Please be sure to contact your U.S. Representative at (202) 225-3121 and urge him or her to cosponsor and support H.R. 822.  Additional contact information can be found using the "Write Your Representatives" feature at www.NRAILA.org.   

[Jabba]

I am VERY torn about this.

I am a gun guy, and I am in favor of reciprocity.

I am also an advocate of smaller Federal government, and I don't want the Fed telling the states what to do.

So I am torn. 

When you're idealistic, sometimes your ideals get in the way.  This is one of those times.  To me, the states rights outweigh the benefit of interstate reciprocity.

I will be calling my rep and urging them to not support this bill, as it gives the Fed even more power over the states, which I am opposed to.

Indiana already has it right by the way.  If you have a carry permit, you are welcome to come carry here. 

Jabba

[RRS]

I believe in  states rights too.  If we lose them, our individual rights are next.  If a state does not recognize my ccw I try to avoid that state and if I must pass through,  I try not to spend any money in that state.  Gas up prior to entering and after leaving that state and no meals or motels there.

[FryeVRCCDS0067]

Although I agree with Jabba concerning state verses federal powers I'll still have to support this.

Being required by law to pull over along busy highways, roads and interstates, dismount my motorcycle, expose, unload and lock away a semi-auto handgun in full view of passing motorists, homeowners and foot traffic is insane. And yet, if a state line comes up on you sooner that you expected that's what you have to do to stay within the law and it's what I did several times while traveling last year.

In my opinion, if a state won't allow citizens and travelers to freely exercise the rights allowed them by our Constitution they should be forced to do so.

But, again in my opinion, if a state wants to grant citizens and travelers more freedom than mandated by the federal constitution they should be free to do so and encouraged to do so.

[CajunRider]

I am VERY torn about this.

I am a gun guy, and I am in favor of reciprocity.

I am also an advocate of smaller Federal government, and I don't want the Fed telling the states what to do.

So I am torn. 

When you're idealistic, sometimes your ideals get in the way.  This is one of those times.  To me, the states rights outweigh the benefit of interstate reciprocity.

I will be calling my rep and urging them to not support this bill, as it gives the Fed even more power over the states, which I am opposed to.

Indiana already has it right by the way.  If you have a carry permit, you are welcome to come carry here. 

Jabba

You make a very valid point. 

At first sight, I was all for this law, but taking the state's right's away is quite a touchy subject. 

I think I'm going to have to agree with you here... and consider Indiana if I ever feel the need to move.    

[Gear Jammer]

I believe in  states rights too.  If we lose them, our individual rights are next.  If a state does not recognize my ccw I try to avoid that state and if I must pass through,  I try not to spend any money in that state.  Gas up prior to entering and after leaving that state and no meals or motels there.

Which is why I went out of my way to avoid Illinois last summer returning from Michigan.  But Jabba's got a good point.  Personally, I don't think any state should be able to infringe on constitutionally guaranteed freedoms.

[chuckinVA]

While I respect your opinions, I can't agree with you on this one.  By extending your logic, each state would have the right to print its own money, determine the width of its internal railways, set state specs for things like road and runway dimensions, safety regulations, heck even tv and radio frequencies, and the list goes on and on.  We must have some commonality that cuts across state lines in some areas and I believe cc reciprocity is one of those areas.  Otherwise we don't have a nation but a community of states. 

Anyway, ride safely.  Now its MC related.

[MAD6Gun]

  I dont look at it as an infringment on states rights. All states are required to honor each others drivers licenses right,why not gun permits.

 Although I like Ted Nugents remark. "The second Admendment IS my gun permit"...

[98 T]

Some very good points here on both sides.  But the right to carry is  a constitutional right which should spread to every state in the union and yet not tread on individual state's rights to enact other legislation within it's own borders...as long as it does not conflict with the constitution.

On another related note,  Mark- I love Uncle Ted... I would vote for him for president... seriously. No guessing with that guy - you know where he stands and he makes it pretty clear.  He's so politically incorrect- that's why I like him.

[Jabba]

What do they call that arguement?  Logic absurdity?  Some Latin something. Essentially extending a point into absurdity then arguing the absurd part. That what that was. I can see both sides of this one. I see the us constitution argument. But I don't like the fed mandating to the states any more than is absolutely necessary. I will not spend money in Illinois for exactly that reason.

I am pretty solidly anti union as well but I am not really in favor of the right to work legislation proposed right now. Same argument. Government solution to a problem with private sector answers.

Jabba

[Chiefy]

If one believes he has the right to carry because of the second amendment, I can't see (FWIW) how they can oppose federal legislation intent on enforcing it.

If "Pennsyltucky" wants to enforce Jim Crow laws should they be allowed to?

[gregc]

I have to disagree with you on that one Jabba. The states are still in control, if they don't allow ccw, they still don't have to allow them.  I see it as when you drive into a state, the state still controls the traffic laws you drive by, they just allow you to drive on your out of state license, obeying their traffic laws.

[Garfield]

I don't carry or own any guns (my choice), but I do think all states should respect all other states gun carry laws when they pass through their state just like they do for driver licenses. I also think the states should be the ones who enact this and not the federal government. The feds have their hands in too many things right now.

[Varmintmist]

I don't carry or own any guns (my choice), but I do think all states should respect all other states gun carry laws when they pass through their state just like they do for driver licenses. I also think the states should be the ones who enact this and not the federal government. The feds have their hands in too many things right now.

The problem is with reciprocity agreements. Some states have a mandatory class that you must pass X-Y-Z to get a CWP. Others have a class where you have to pass a class that has X-Y, and still others are shall issue.
The state that gives a strip search and charges the citizen hundreds doesn't want to let a, for example. PA permit be legal because then they couldn't justify the rectal exam or cost.

PA permits are shall issue. You pay 20.00 for a background check, and 1.00 for lamination, bring in a form with 3 references, and after the background check you get a permit and a pamphlet explaining that it is your responsibility to know the law.
WV used to have reciprocity with PA, until they instituted a new policy for their citizens that involves the rectal exam. They then told PA that PA needed to institute a rectal exam or they wouldnt have reciprocity. WV dropped PA, PA dropped WV.
The national law would apply the same as to a drivers lic. Even if to pass a TX test where you have to stay on the road for 3 miles in a straight line (about the extent of skillsets  ), WI still has to honor their drivers license although they require their drivers to be able to navigate curves at a steady rate of speed.

[FryeVRCCDS0067]

As a Hoosier I'm proud of the fact that we recognize permits from all states. One thing I like to see us do better though. Right now, if you live in a state which doesn't require a permit to carry you can't carry here in Indiana. I'd like to see us change that next year.

[PAVALKER]

I have to disagree with you on that one Jabba. The states are still in control, if they don't allow ccw, they still don't have to allow them.  I see it as when you drive into a state, the state still controls the traffic laws you drive by, they just allow you to drive on your out of state license, obeying their traffic laws.

Ding Ding Ding.....       And each state has it's own driver's exam, associated costs etc... and motor vehicle registration/state inspection (some) yet recognize other states when driving in their state.   And if I get married in one state and move to another, that marriage is recognized as well (but I've been there done that so that won't happen again).  Should we each be required to have a State Issued government issued ID/License from each state in order to travel through those states? 

[saabfxr]

Md. has a ccw but God cant get you one... I have a Fla.ccw and it sucks I cant carry in my own state. I am for states rights too but this is needed.  We have such a controling state house that evern with the votes to pass the head aholes in charge wont let it to the floor to be voted on. Said as much. Man I need a ride.LOL.

[fudgie]

Jabba makes some good points. Not sure what I would do. Even tho all might recognize that states permit, we still would have to follow that States law. Some States you cannot carry in a vehicle, etc. You have to research the State you are traveling in and learn there laws. Sometimes MC carry laws are different. Carring thru reservations can be alot different. Ohio does not honor my Ind LTCH. I cannot carry conceled in Ohio but I can open carry legally. Alot of States are like that. Lucky for me I got my Utah nonresident which gives me OH & NE, which I frequent the most.

I hate crossing Ill going west. I do stop and clear my gun before crossing into the State. But if I stop for the night. Its on my hip as we go out to eat, ect. Rather be judged by 12 then carried by 6.

Like RSS said he tries to avoid the State that he cannot carry in. No guns and mandatory helmets States are the ones we avoid. Unless it has been a few years we will venture up into a helmet state IF I can carry.

[Bobbo]

I hate crossing Ill going west. I do stop and clear my gun before crossing into the State. But if I stop for the night. Its on my hip as we go out to eat, ect. Rather be judged by 12 then carried by 6.

You might want to be careful in Illinois:
http://www.opencarry.org/il.html

[fudgie]

I hate crossing Ill going west. I do stop and clear my gun before crossing into the State. But if I stop for the night. Its on my hip as we go out to eat, ect. Rather be judged by 12 then carried by 6.

You might want to be careful in Illinois:
http://www.opencarry.org/il.html

Yep I'm aware and pro open carry. But when I'm in Ill or other places where I'm 'not allowed' its conceled.

[Jabba]

Do we really want the Federal Govt to take CONTROL of this? 

No, and that's my point.

I want reciprocity.  I don't want MORE Federal laws.  I want LESS of them.

Like I said... sometimes my ideals get in the way of my agenda.  To me the Ideals are more important.  As soon as I start compromising, all is lost, and I am no better than the scumbags in charge now.

Jabba

[musclehead]

While I respect your opinions, I can't agree with you on this one.  By extending your logic, each state would have the right to print its own money, determine the width of its internal railways, set state specs for things like road and runway dimensions, safety regulations, heck even tv and radio frequencies, and the list goes on and on.  We must have some commonality that cuts across state lines in some areas and I believe cc reciprocity is one of those areas.  Otherwise we don't have a nation but a community of states. 

Anyway, ride safely.  Now its MC related.

more then 100 years ago thats the way it was, money was printed even by individual banks. it was only good in that particular bank and all it really was is a promise to pay in gold the bearer that amount in bullion or coin. much easier then carrying the real thing, think of the poor horses.(counterfieting was rampant, and if found was dealt with harshly)
I'm torn on this one as well. but I think it would be for the greater good.

[Gunslinger]

I am with Jabba on this issue The Fed needs to worry less about creating laws and telling the states what to do and more on living within their means.

The problem with reciprocity among states has also been pointed out, differing requirements from simply passing a background check to mandated classroom hours learning the relevant legal issues and the force continuum and qualification.

I disagree with the federal government telling my state that they must honor a license from a state where the only requirement is to be 18 and not a felon when my state requires that I prove a minimum level of knowledge and understanding of the law and use of force as well as minimum competency with a firearm.

I am not happy about the fact that my CCW is not honored in other states, but I believe the answer to that is for the states to allow out of state individuals to prove that they have met that states requirements in addition to being licensed by their  state of residence. Yes it adds some hoops to jump through, but it leaves the power to the state to decide what happens within it's own borders.

As far as the second amendment goes, I missed the part that provides me with the right to carry concealed. For that matter I don't even see where it allows me to carry open. Can someone point that one out to me?

I would personally like to see CCW allowed in all states, and would like to see it much less restrictive than in my own state, but I also feel that it is a priveledge that should be allowed only when somone can prove an understanding of the legal and ethical issues surrounding use of force and show that they are competent enough to use that force in a manner which does not put everyone at risk.

[Skinhead]

My whole problem is with the laws in the first place.  The only people obeying them are those licensed to carry.  They have no impact on the the criminals unless they are caught, and they are the reason I am carrying.  Do any of you watch the TV show "The First 48" on A&E?  I am amazed by the number of shootings on there and the reasons for them.  Most are over a couple dollars or drugs, but I'd be willing to give you a dollar for every perp on that show that was carrying legally, if you give me a nickel for every one that is not.

Gun Laws don't work on criminals, period!

[PAVALKER]

I am with Jabba on this issue The Fed needs to worry less about creating laws and telling the states what to do and more on living within their means.

The problem with reciprocity among states has also been pointed out, differing requirements from simply passing a background check to mandated classroom hours learning the relevant legal issues and the force continuum and qualification.

I disagree with the federal government telling my state that they must honor a license from a state where the only requirement is to be 18 and not a felon when my state requires that I prove a minimum level of knowledge and understanding of the law and use of force as well as minimum competency with a firearm.

I am not happy about the fact that my CCW is not honored in other states, but I believe the answer to that is for the states to allow out of state individuals to prove that they have met that states requirements in addition to being licensed by their  state of residence. Yes it adds some hoops to jump through, but it leaves the power to the state to decide what happens within it's own borders.

As far as the second amendment goes, I missed the part that provides me with the right to carry concealed. For that matter I don't even see where it allows me to carry open. Can someone point that one out to me?

I would personally like to see CCW allowed in all states, and would like to see it much less restrictive than in my own state, but I also feel that it is a priveledge that should be allowed only when somone can prove an understanding of the legal and ethical issues surrounding use of force and show that they are competent enough to use that force in a manner which does not put everyone at risk.

I find it interesting and somewhat ironic (and humorous) that someone using the handle of "GunSlinger"  wrote this "As far as the second amendment goes, I missed the part that provides me with the right to carry concealed. For that matter I don't even see where it allows me to carry open. Can someone point that one out to me?"     May I refer you to the second amendment, please read it carefully and slowly.    "keep and bear arms"     http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Amendment_to_the_Constitution_of_the_United_States

Maybe everyone that wants to drive into another state should have to stop at the border (like a truck weigh station) and prove an understanding of basic driving fundamentals, familiarization with the state driving laws from their home state and the state in which they are entering, show documentation as to them having completed their own state driver examination and meet the requirements to drive in their own state and that the vehicle in which they are driving meets all state safety inspection requirements for the state they are entering (maybe have the state conduct a safety inspection to confirm this for the safety of their own state residents).   

 

[Dubsvalk]

I think that I already have the right to carry a gun given to me by the Constitution.  I don't believe the a State has the right to say I cannot.  I also believe that if a State goes to the trouble to make sure an individual is trained to use a firearm, checks to make sure the individual meets the legal requirements (not here illegally, not a convicted felon etc.) other states should recognize and honor that permit.  Again, the constitution already gives me that right.
Dubs

[fudgie]

I think the 2A was made when everyone open carried. I really doubt cc was as big as it is now. That is why open carry is allowed without a permit in most States. Over the years folks have quit open carring for the way they are precieved. They care about the way the public looks at them then they do about their protection. It has started to make a comeback tho. Ind has a LTCH. You can carry how you please.
As far as showing the next state you completed a class to enter armed, i'm against. Some States you need no class to obtain a lic such as Ind. I grew up around guns and killed animals before I was in double digits. I dont need a class to tell me not to point a gun at someone unless to tend to shoot them.
I think the feds could say your lic is good in every state but its up to the States to decide what gun laws they want. Just like they do now.
Either way I will enter your State armed. Legal or illegal.

Like the instructor from ill of my Utah class told us. 'I have been to more countries then I have been to States in the US. I have not been killed over there in battle and will not be killed here cause my State says I cannot be armed. I accept the consequences of protecting myself.'

[Jabba]

I also accept the consequences of defending myself, my loved ones, my fellow Americans and America.

Now that we're all sappy... 

Jabba

[Gunslinger]

I find it interesting and somewhat ironic (and humorous) that someone using the handle of "GunSlinger"  wrote this "As far as the second amendment goes, I missed the part that provides me with the right to carry concealed. For that matter I don't even see where it allows me to carry open. Can someone point that one out to me?"     May I refer you to the second amendment, please read it carefully and slowly.    "keep and bear arms"     http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Amendment_to_the_Constitution_of_the_United_States

First of all, The name has nothing to do with guns, it is a wordplay based on my last name "Huntzinger" I didn't come up with it, I just gave in and started using it along with everyone else.

Secondly, I stand corrected (it was late when I wrote the first). The constitution gives me the right to bear arms, (carry) but I still do not see where it allows for concealed carry.

[stormrider]

I got a gun and CC Permit. If I'm in your state and they bust me cause they don't recipricate will you bail me out? Cause I'm gonna carry.

[PAVALKER]

I find it interesting and somewhat ironic (and humorous) that someone using the handle of "GunSlinger"  wrote this "As far as the second amendment goes, I missed the part that provides me with the right to carry concealed. For that matter I don't even see where it allows me to carry open. Can someone point that one out to me?"     May I refer you to the second amendment, please read it carefully and slowly.    "keep and bear arms"     http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Amendment_to_the_Constitution_of_the_United_States

First of all, The name has nothing to do with guns, it is a wordplay based on my last name "Huntzinger" I didn't come up with it, I just gave in and started using it along with everyone else.

Secondly, I stand corrected (it was late when I wrote the first). The constitution gives me the right to bear arms, (carry) but I still do not see where it allows for concealed carry.

Ok.... irony aside with the handle/screen name.  You are correct, the second amendment doesn't necessarily state open or concealed carry.  So by virtue of it not specifying, it means both... until other laws/rules were passed that concealed carry was taken away, or limited unless specifically authorized depending on your locale.   Many things were legal... until laws were passed making them illegal...I grew up as a kid without seat belts or car seats and survived.... but now it's illegal to have a kid in car without them... even for you now to.  Slowly but surely, the Government is taking away our "rights" or implementing controls on us, all under the premise of doing it for our own protection/well being/safety.  Fortunately those smart guys that wrote that constitution knew that without a means to protect themselves/ourselves, our own government could grow and be our own demise....they didn't want to leave us totally helpless.         The constitution doesn't give us the specific right to drive our motorcycles or any vehicles for that matter, and you might be aware that laws specifically state driving is a privilege..... now it's motorcycle related too.   

[Bobbo]

The constitution gives me the right to bear arms, (carry) but I still do not see where it allows for concealed carry.

The Constitution is a set of restrictions on government powers, and our rights are derived from those restrictions.  The Bill of Rights wasn't meant to encompass all of our rights, but rather to insure the government cannot take away certain freedoms.  Laws, on the other hand, restrict people from actions.

In other words, our Bill of Rights doesn't tell us what we CAN do, it tells government what they CANNOT do.

[solo1]

There are certainly good arguments on both side of this question.  I'm kinda with Jabba on this one.
However, I'll do what I have to do to protect myself in other states.  You measure the risks against your peace of mind.

Illinois is another story.  Does anything good come from Illinois?

[Fla. Jim]

While I respect your opinions, I can't agree with you on this one.  By extending your logic, each state would have the right to print its own money, determine the width of its internal railways, set state specs for things like road and runway dimensions, safety regulations, heck even tv and radio frequencies, and the list goes on and on.  We must have some commonality that cuts across state lines in some areas and I believe cc reciprocity is one of those areas.  Otherwise we don't have a nation but a community of states. 

Anyway, ride safely.  Now its MC related.

+1 There are many reasons we are the "United" States of America

[tank_post142]

do a google search on "operation gunrunner" your govt. working to protect you. 

[valkmc]

My whole problem is with the laws in the first place.  The only people obeying them are those licensed to carry.  They have no impact on the the criminals unless they are caught, and they are the reason I am carrying.  Do any of you watch the TV show "The First 48" on A&E?  I am amazed by the number of shootings on there and the reasons for them.  Most are over a couple dollars or drugs, but I'd be willing to give you a dollar for every perp on that show that was carrying legally, if you give me a nickel for every one that is not.

Gun Laws don't work on criminals, period!

I worked in a state prison in Florida and there are a lot of criminals locked up because they had weapons, so it works in some cases. Florida 10-20-life law has caused many inmates to recieve mandatory penalties and remain in prison for their entire term. 10 years mandatory for pulling a gun during the commission of a felony, if the gun goes off 20 years mandatory, if you hit someone 25 to life regardless of the injury. Keeps them locked up and off the streets where they should be. Of course that is why Florida now has 105,000 inmates.