Wrenchers beware

[Chrisj CMA]

I figured this could go on either board, but since its not really technical I chose this one.......The warning is this.  A quart or a gallon or 5 quarts may not be what it says.  I never before questioned wether the jug was actually a qt, I just dumped it in.  Never had a problem, but now that I use Mobile 1 it comes in 5qt jugs.  

Something told me, instead of removing 1 qt and ASSUMING there are 4 left.  I decided to measure out 4 and assume that one was left over.  

A friend of mine changed oil...bought a 1 gallon jug....poured it in, then he had a problem.  The bike puked a puddle of oil after every ride.  After some deliberation we decided his crankcase was overfilled.  That didnt make any sense to him because he knew he put a gallon in and no more....well, he put a gallon jug in that turned out to be 8oz over a gallon.

So I got to thinking...if the accuracy of the measurement of how full our oil jugs are cannot be trusted anymore......maybe its good to measure even the 1 qt bottles before just dumping it in.  

I will certainely measure all my new oil with my measured funnel, it onlky takes a few more moments

[alph]

i don't know if it was an option on your perticular year of cycle, but on my bike there's this black thingie that screws into the  engine, and on the bottom of it there's these little markiings on it, and i think, somewere i read that the ideal location for engine oil is BELOW the upper most marking and ABOVE the most lowest marking......  i think i read somewre that it's a normal PRACTICE to CHECK these thingies once in a while...... 

[Rowdy]

 

[Bobbo]

I'm thinking your friend put four quarts of oil into a crankcase that holds four quarts, and didn't account for the residual oil, which could easily be 8 ounces.  While it's possible that the gallon oil jug had an additional 8 ounces, I doubt the oil company would like giving away 6% of their product.

I agree with alph, put in oil up to the last quart, then use the dipstick to top it off after running.

[Chrisj CMA]

I'm thinking your friend put four quarts of oil into a crankcase that holds four quarts, and didn't account for the residual oil, which could easily be 8 ounces.  While it's possible that the gallon oil jug had an additional 8 ounces, I doubt the oil company would like giving away 6% of their product.

I agree with alph, put in oil up to the last quart, then use the dipstick to top it off after running.

No Bobbo......my friend changed his oil like he has done many times.......LIKE I ALREADY SAID.....he drained it dumped in what he thought was a gallon and there was 8oz extra.  You dont get 8extra oz from "residual"  Ya I guess he should have checked the dipstick.   I measure 4 qts and the stick measures perfect........this is his second Valk and he puts in a gallon and it usually measures perfect......after a while I guess you take it for granted.  

Id rather measure the oil going in and not bother with the stick

[alph]

chris,

i know what you mean....  mobil one has a bigger jug, i love 'em 'cause my truck and van both take 5 quarts in the engine and i have used synthetic oil in the van since the day we got it.  the truck i bought used (that was a stupid mistake too, but a different story completely), so i don't use mobil one in that, just regular mobil oil..... 

i haven't boughten oil for a while, from when i got it last it was a 5 full quart jug.

[Bobbo]

I'm thinking your friend put four quarts of oil into a crankcase that holds four quarts, and didn't account for the residual oil, which could easily be 8 ounces.  While it's possible that the gallon oil jug had an additional 8 ounces, I doubt the oil company would like giving away 6% of their product.

I agree with alph, put in oil up to the last quart, then use the dipstick to top it off after running.

No Bobbo......my friend changed his oil like he has done many times.......LIKE I ALREADY SAID.....he drained it dumped in what he thought was a gallon and there was 8oz extra.  You dont get 8extra oz from "residual"  Ya I guess he should have checked the dipstick.   I measure 4 qts and the stick measures perfect........this is his second Valk and he puts in a gallon and it usually measures perfect......after a while I guess you take it for granted.  

Id rather measure the oil going in and not bother with the stick

I wouldn't argue with Sgt. Joe!   

http://www.valkyrieriders.com/shoptalk/bongooil.htm

[Chrisj CMA]

I'm thinking your friend put four quarts of oil into a crankcase that holds four quarts, and didn't account for the residual oil, which could easily be 8 ounces.  While it's possible that the gallon oil jug had an additional 8 ounces, I doubt the oil company would like giving away 6% of their product.

I agree with alph, put in oil up to the last quart, then use the dipstick to top it off after running.

No Bobbo......my friend changed his oil like he has done many times.......LIKE I ALREADY SAID.....he drained it dumped in what he thought was a gallon and there was 8oz extra.  You dont get 8extra oz from "residual"  Ya I guess he should have checked the dipstick.   I measure 4 qts and the stick measures perfect........this is his second Valk and he puts in a gallon and it usually measures perfect......after a while I guess you take it for granted.  

Id rather measure the oil going in and not bother with the stick

I wouldn't argue with Sgt. Joe!   

http://www.valkyrieriders.com/shoptalk/bongooil.htm

Well, funny but you will argue with EVERYONE else over ANYTHING just to argue.  All I can say is LUCKY SGT JOE.

Lest the point be lost........the whole deal is this......quality control must cost more than a few oz of oil because I think the accuracy of the filled jug is not what it used to be......If you dont need to know this because you top off,check,top off,check until its at the line....well nevermind.  If you (like me and lots of riders I know) are used to how much the bike needs to be "perfect"  you could be surprized if you rely on the volume marked on the jug.......thats all Im saying, no argument needed or wanted.

[Bobbo]

I'm thinking your friend put four quarts of oil into a crankcase that holds four quarts, and didn't account for the residual oil, which could easily be 8 ounces.  While it's possible that the gallon oil jug had an additional 8 ounces, I doubt the oil company would like giving away 6% of their product.

I agree with alph, put in oil up to the last quart, then use the dipstick to top it off after running.

No Bobbo......my friend changed his oil like he has done many times.......LIKE I ALREADY SAID.....he drained it dumped in what he thought was a gallon and there was 8oz extra.  You dont get 8extra oz from "residual"  Ya I guess he should have checked the dipstick.   I measure 4 qts and the stick measures perfect........this is his second Valk and he puts in a gallon and it usually measures perfect......after a while I guess you take it for granted.  

Id rather measure the oil going in and not bother with the stick

I wouldn't argue with Sgt. Joe!   

http://www.valkyrieriders.com/shoptalk/bongooil.htm

Well, funny but you will argue with EVERYONE else over ANYTHING just to argue.  All I can say is LUCKY SGT JOE.

Lest the point be lost........the whole deal is this......quality control must cost more than a few oz of oil because I think the accuracy of the filled jug is not what it used to be......If you dont need to know this because you top off,check,top off,check until its at the line....well nevermind.  If you (like me and lots of riders I know) are used to how much the bike needs to be "perfect"  you could be surprized if you rely on the volume marked on the jug.......thats all Im saying, no argument needed or wanted.

I'm not sure why you think my post was an argument.  I was offering a suggestion as to where the extra 8 ounces came from, and the usual method of filling a crankcase.

[Chattanooga Mark]

Did your friend fill a new oil filter and then add 4 quarts to the crankcase? I always fill the oil filter and let the filter media absorb as much oil as possible before I install the new filter. I've always done it that way as I never like the oil pump to have to fill a filter before the engine gets oil pressure. But I always use the oil for the filter from the amount of oil I set aside to go into the sump.

My old BMW cars with a 3.5 liter inline six would hold 6 quarts of oil. The filter/housing took nearly a quart but that oil always came out of the original 6 quarts.

Just a thought,

Mark

[Quicksilver]

Thanks for the heads up re: qty in oil jugs.

[Jess from VA]

If I'm not mistaken the Valk capacity is listed at 3.9 qts.... and we all know it is iffy whether all the oil comes out on changes.  Using Shell Rotella T6 in the gallon jugs (never seen it in quarts), I would always dump most in but leave an inch in the jug, fire the bike (I don't prefill a horizontal mount filter), let it sit, then begin checking dip and topping up.  I always fill to about two mm above the dipstick centerline (never had any blow-by either).  

Usually, I had a bit left over, consistent with the 3.9 quart capacity.  Of course I save it for later top ups, but silly me the Valks never use or lose any oil.  However, the last couple changes, I have made sure the bike is HOT when draining (dumped immediately after an all-day ride), and I lean it way over, and now it is taking the whole gallon, and is perfect on the dip.  (I still don't dump a whole gallon in at first)

By the by, no one should use Cobra or Show Chrome or Teltrue temp disticks to check level.  My OE dips sit in the tool chest and get used at oil changes.

[Hoser]

Is it possible that your friend thought he had a 4 qt jg and had a 5 qt instead?  It is common for the deisel rated conventional oil to come in 4 quart jugs, and other oils to come in 5 qt jugs.  Just wondering.....  hoser   ???

[Chrisj CMA]

Did your friend fill a new oil filter and then add 4 quarts to the crankcase? I always fill the oil filter and let the filter media absorb as much oil as possible before I install the new filter. I've always done it that way as I never like the oil pump to have to fill a filter before the engine gets oil pressure. But I always use the oil for the filter from the amount of oil I set aside to go into the sump.

My old BMW cars with a 3.5 liter inline six would hold 6 quarts of oil. The filter/housing took nearly a quart but that oil always came out of the original 6 quarts.

Just a thought,

Mark

I dont think he preloaded the oil filter, but I cant see how that could change anything........he would have used part of that gallon jug to preload and then dumped the rest in, or he would have just dumped the whole thing in..........I probably would have made the same mistake as a good drain with the bike vertical (yes he did have it vertical) and then one full gallon (4 qts) is what I add in and all is good always.............I think the larger containers arent filled as accurately as the qt bottles for some reason....I noticed the three times I used the five qt jug and measured out 4 qts for the bike, there seemed to be more than a qt left in the large container

[musclehead]

I'm thinking your friend put four quarts of oil into a crankcase that holds four quarts, and didn't account for the residual oil, which could easily be 8 ounces.  While it's possible that the gallon oil jug had an additional 8 ounces, I doubt the oil company would like giving away 6% of their product.

I agree with alph, put in oil up to the last quart, then use the dipstick to top it off after running.

I gotta agree with bobbo, I can't believe the earl companies are giving it away.  I don't have a center stand so I hop on and lean it from side to side to get as much out of the valve covers as possible.

I let it drain and drain and drain and drain and well you get the point

[Willow]

I'm a skeptic by nature, but it sounds to me like some speculation with a high degree of possible inaccuracy.

How did we determine that the jug contained an extra 8 ounces after it had been emptied?

I do agree with previous posters that we only know how much oil is in the bike by measuring, not by assuming.  Hopefully we measure only to confirm if all went as we thought it did.

[F6CTrider]

WAY WAY WAY too much brain exercize goin' on here.

Go old school, use the f###ing dip stick, reserve the brain waves for women and beer!

[Walküre]

By the by, no one should use Cobra or Show Chrome or Teltrue temp disticks to check level.  My OE dips sit in the tool chest and get used at oil changes.

Jess - thinking about getting one of the "fancy-er" dipsticks - how hard would it be to do the oil change, using the OE, then using the Cobra, and figuring out where the "accurate" marking should be, and going by that? I know that using the OE SHOULD be easy, but with as much as I have going on, in my shop at any one time, it might be "difficult" (read that, impossible) to find the OE. that's one of the reasons I haven't sprung for a fancy one...






 
As for the amount in jugs - as in ANY process in factories, these days, it's pretty damn easy to ensure the accuracy of measure fluids or solid materials. I could buy 1/2 oz, or maybe even an oz, but 8?? As was said, that's 6%. NO one gives up 6% of their "profit" through negligence...

Just my $.02 worth, as measured...

[fat6man]

OILS Well That Ends Well

 

[Chrisj CMA]

Well all I can say is.....I can remember many posts where many Valkyrie riders posted that they do (as I do) a good thorough drain...engine warm...bike vertical, lean from side to side...get as much out that is going to come out and then put in a gallon and forget about it.  I have been doing that for 8 years now and the two or three times I have pulled out that dippy thing its always been perfect.

My technique for checking oil after I KNOW I put in 1 gallon and only 1 gallon is to look under the motor and on my floor after a ride.  If its dry then Im sure the gallon of oil is still in there.  Then after 5,6,7K miles I open the drainny thing and if all the oil comes out (there is a stain line now on my drip pan) yep its all there ready for another gallon.....I dont want to run the thing dip the stick hold it up to the light because you cant see new oil and repeat............drain...dump 1 Gallon and go...so shoot me.

Many of you said you do the same, and if you buy a gallon jug or more I stand by my warning.......Id measure the oil going in, its easier (for me) than fussing with topping it off.......same thing with the final drive measure 150cc going in (on the side stand or workbench) and never have to overflow it to know its full

[R J]

Ladies & Gentleman, read the firkin label on the jug.

There are both, 4 qt and 5 qt jugs in the regular oils.

Ya pick off the shelf what ya want.

We get Mobil 1 oil from the distributor, and he brings us X # of 5 qt jug cases and X # of 4 qt jug cases.   We used to grab the wrong one every once in awhile, so the 4 qt jugs are on the East wall, and the 5 qt jugs are on the South wall.  Solved our problem.   Well actually it was easier to do that than to try and train the blond helper in the shop.   She is good at changing parts, but not worth a crap on picking up the right one if say we have 2 alternators or 2 water pumps to install.   It is a 50/50 chance she will grab the wrong one and then fight it till someone asks what is taking so long.   Then we hear this, "It don't fit right." or the other vehicle comes in and the other Tech goes looking for their part.

If she wasn't related to the son's wife, she would of been gone a long time ago.

Mystery solved.

[Jess from VA]

Jess - thinking about getting one of the "fancy-er" dipsticks - how hard would it be to do the oil change, using the OE, then using the Cobra, and figuring out where the "accurate" marking should be, and going by that?

Here's the way to use an aftermarket dipstick: 

Get the oil level exactly where you want it with the OE dipstick.  (*Bike level, stick in.. but not screwed in) 

Then put in the aftermarket stick (*same procedure) and compare the actual level on the stick with the scribed line on the stick. 

IF the aftermarket stick scribe mark is not accurate, take a needle file and scribe a new mark at the level of the oil on the stick... now you have an accurate aftermarket dip stick. 

[hubcapsc]

Jess - thinking about getting one of the "fancy-er" dipsticks - how hard would it be to do the oil change, using the OE, then using the Cobra, and figuring out where the "accurate" marking should be, and going by that?

Here's the way to use an aftermarket dipstick: 

Get the oil level exactly where you want it with the OE dipstick.  (*Bike level, stick in.. but not screwed in) 

Then put in the aftermarket stick (*same procedure) and compare the actual level on the stick with the scribed line on the stick. 

IF the aftermarket stick scribe mark is not accurate, take a needle file and scribe a new mark at the level of the oil on the stick... now you have an accurate aftermarket dip stick. 

I have some kind of chrome aftermarket dipstick... sitting on my shelf.

It seems exactly  like the OEM one, it looks as if they chromed an OEM one, but of course the OEM one is not metal...

I hate it because, whenever I would want to check my oil, the bike would be hot. The &!^#@@ metal dipstick (and chrome filler cap that
was on there) were way to hot to touch or handle easily.

I got a OEM dipstick and filler cap from eBay about three years ago...

-Mike

[musclehead]

WAY WAY WAY too much brain exercize goin' on here.

Go old school, use the f###ing dip stick, reserve the brain waves for women and beer!

mostly women, i got the beer thing down

[3fan4life]

Jess - thinking about getting one of the "fancy-er" dipsticks - how hard would it be to do the oil change, using the OE, then using the Cobra, and figuring out where the "accurate" marking should be, and going by that?

Here's the way to use an aftermarket dipstick: 

Get the oil level exactly where you want it with the OE dipstick.  (*Bike level, stick in.. but not screwed in) 

Then put in the aftermarket stick (*same procedure) and compare the actual level on the stick with the scribed line on the stick. 

IF the aftermarket stick scribe mark is not accurate, take a needle file and scribe a new mark at the level of the oil on the stick... now you have an accurate aftermarket dip stick. 

It's been a couple of years since I replaced my OEM dipstick with a Showchrome one.

But if memory serves me well (it doesn't always do so anymore) when I compared the two dipsticks the marks matched.

[3fan4life]

Jess - thinking about getting one of the "fancy-er" dipsticks - how hard would it be to do the oil change, using the OE, then using the Cobra, and figuring out where the "accurate" marking should be, and going by that?

Here's the way to use an aftermarket dipstick: 

Get the oil level exactly where you want it with the OE dipstick.  (*Bike level, stick in.. but not screwed in) 

Then put in the aftermarket stick (*same procedure) and compare the actual level on the stick with the scribed line on the stick. 

IF the aftermarket stick scribe mark is not accurate, take a needle file and scribe a new mark at the level of the oil on the stick... now you have an accurate aftermarket dip stick. 

I have some kind of chrome aftermarket dipstick... sitting on my shelf.

It seems exactly  like the OEM one, it looks as if they chromed an OEM one, but of course the OEM one is not metal...

I hate it because, whenever I would want to check my oil, the bike would be hot. The &!^#@@ metal dipstick (and chrome filler cap that
was on there) were way to hot to touch or handle easily.

I got a OEM dipstick and filler cap from eBay about three years ago...

-Mike

I like my pretty chrome one.

But you are right about it getting way too hot to touch.

[czuch]

Oil?    HUH?
And how did they come up with 3.9? Izzat some metric equvilent measurement?
Every 9th O/C ya get a free quart.
Yup, too much thinkin goin on here.
I knew a guy who changed his oil and the car ran very poorly. The drain it first part escaped him.

[Mr Whiskey]

Slightly off topic, and totally beside the point, but I just switched to mobil 1 and my local wally world is no longer gonna carry the 15/50. Had to call all over town to find a 5 qt jug. Just a heads up, DG.

[Madmike]

WAY WAY WAY too much brain exercize goin' on here.

Go old school, use the f###ing dip stick, reserve the brain waves for women and beer!

[RoadKill]

Did any one check Snopes?  Check it out while I'm going for a ride! 

[Madmike]

Oil?    HUH?
And how did they come up with 3.9? Izzat some metric equvilent measurement?

... off the top of my pointy head I seem to recall that there are 3.78 Litres in a US Gallon and 4.54 Litres in an Imperial Gallon..... the Imperial gallon is 1.25 US gallons and the US gallon is 0.8 Imperial gallons or darn close but I think then there may be a minuscule  difference in the ounces as well..... it all goes back to selling wine I think....

[Gunslinger]

I agree with alph, put in oil up to the last quart, then use the dipstick to top it off after running.

I didn't think i would live long enough to see the day, but...

I agree with Bobbo

Seriously, I have never seen someone not check the dipstick after changing oil. Why would you not check the dipstick?

When you mount new tires do you simply put in 45 seconds of air and call it good?

[GOOSE]

the bottom line here is .....better yet....the moral of this story/discussion is....."BIG JUGS OR SMALL JUGS----IT'S ALL IN THE VOLUME" !!!!   

[HotRod]

Big jugs,little jugs,I like em all.

[Chrisj CMA]

I agree with alph, put in oil up to the last quart, then use the dipstick to top it off after running.

I didn't think i would live long enough to see the day, but...

I agree with Bobbo

Seriously, I have never seen someone not check the dipstick after changing oil. Why would you not check the dipstick?

When you mount new tires do you simply put in 45 seconds of air and call it good?

I honestly cannot believe this thread has gone so long.....is it that hard to understand.......I know that exactly one gallon of oil fills it up perfectly......I fill it on the side stand........the whole balancing the bike, pulling the stick and trying to top it off to an exact line with an unknown quantity i.e. 3.925 gallons seems way more innacurate when I can just measure an exact gallon in and know its right.  Its how Ive always done it, probably because most of my bikes didnt have a dipstick, they had a viewing window and that is even harder to do by the top off method so putting in the CORRECT amount just seems smarter.........lets put it to bed....go ride or something 

[Walküre]

Here's what 8 ounces looks like...



Personally, I'd rather have 8 of these, full...



Comes out the same...

[GOOSE]

chrisj........you've got to admit.....we have a heck of a crew on this board.  like no other!

[Bobbo]

...Its how Ive always done it...

That reminds me of an old joke:

You build a nice big room-sized cage, and in one end of it you put five monkeys. In the other end you put the banana. Then you stand by with the fire hose. Sooner or later one of the monkeys is going to go after the banana, and when it does you turn on the fire hose and spray the other monkeys with it. Replace the banana if needed, then repeat the process. Monkeys are pretty smart, so they'll figure this out pretty quickly: "If anybody goes for the banana, the rest of us get the hose." Soon they'll attack any member of their group who tries to go to the banana.

Once this happens, you take one monkey out of the cage and bring in a new one. The new monkey will come in, try to make friends, then probably go for the banana. And the other monkeys, knowing what this means, will attack him to stop you from using the hose on them. Eventually the new monkey will get the message, and will even start joining in on the attack if somebody else goes for the banana. Once this happens, take another of the original monkeys out of the cage and bring in another new monkey.

After repeating this a few times, there will come a moment when none of the monkeys in the cage have ever been sprayed by the fire hose; in fact, they'll never even have seen the hose. But they'll attack any monkey who goes to get the banana. If the monkeys could speak English, and if you could ask them why they attack anyone who goes for the banana, their answer would almost certainly be: "Well, I don't really know, but that's how we've always done things around here!"

[old grouch]

mr whiskey--had the same thing happen here at WalMart last year, then lo and behold there it is again, back on the shelf.  Figured somebody told me wrong.  Then went to get it again last week, only one jug left, can't get any more, yada yada yada.  Got the department manager to see what is going on.  Seems it is a SEASONAL item.     Only carry it in the winter???  It will be back in the fall.  Asked who decided that one particular oil was SEASONAL?  She said "some idiot in Bentonville."  Finally found my other three jugs at another store.  So I will do my stocking up on oil after Christmas this year.

[Chrisj CMA]

chrisj........you've got to admit.....we have a heck of a crew on this board.  like no other!

Yeah, most are tolerable even