Retirement-Rant

[MNBill]

I told my boss I would be done on April 29, 2011. I have yet to formally turn my time in to the County I work for but I will wait until closer to the actual date. I told the Mrs. I will take the summer off to wear out my bike (yea I know, the Valk only has about 35000 on it so I will be busy), then find a part time job.
Here in MN we have a pension plan called PERA. I have been paying 8% of my pay into it for most of my career and 9.75% the last couple of years (about 31 total). The state has robbed us of 10s of millions of dollars over the years, and they never repaid any of it. Like all pension plans ours is short on funds right now. Here is the kicker, the Republicans took over in MN except for the governor spot this year. They now have a bill to eliminate our pension plan. Sounds like I will be safe but my brothers will have to fight this out to keep the plan. I chose to work for the County for the pension plan and accept that I would not be paid as much as people in the private sector in wages for the security of the job and pension, now they may take that away. I have always voted for the Repbulicans but it looks like they are going to lose my vote because of this one.

[Gear Jammer]

My pension plan is basically bankrupt.  They don't use that word, they call it "unfunded".      I don't know if there's really a big difference between having a pension "eliminated" or underfunded and going under on it's own.  The end result is the same for it's recipients.      I don't know if there's any one political party to whom blame can be assigned,but I don't think I'll be voting for those big spenders I feel most responsible.  I've got a couple of years to work before I leave with 35 years.  Don't know how things are going to look by then. 

[Jess from VA]

Keep your eye on this, and retire immediately if necessary to vest your pension.  My brother, a union carpenter in MI, retired several years early for this exact reason.

Those that have paid in but can't retire, should (obviously) make claim for their contributions, if the plan is killed (class action).

Don't blame the Republicans entirely for this problem, both parties have participated in creating pension benefits in excess of contributions (and investment earnings), then 'borrowed' pension funds.  State pensions are at risk in many states, and it was only a matter of time until draconian measures resulted.  

I'm glad my pension is Federal... those idiots can just print more money, the States cannot.  Now we have to wait and see if we'll still be allowed to get SS at 62.  

[ChromeDome]

My only advice would be to take the lump sum, if available, instead of the annuity ... that way you have all the money in hand when you leave.

[ptgb]

Yep, I'm a public employee in Ohio and as you see, there are big changes coming. In Ohio, first, they want to (actually are going to) take away our rights to bargain collectively just like in Wisconsin and other places (not trolling for anti-union rants - I won't respond).

Next up here is "pension reform". Employees and employers pay about 27% (in total) into the pension fund for public safety employees (police & fire). We pay these higher rates because we are eligible to retire sooner than most (at least 25 years of service and a minimum age); I guess it isn't too prudent to have 65 year old police officers and firefighters running around. But lo and behold the teachers and other public pension funds are having trouble, so my fund, which is adequately funded for the next 30 years (a requirement under law), still plans on "reforming". Funny, anytime government and "reform" are used in the same sentence, it doesn't give me a warm fuzzy feeling.

I am 7.5 years away from retirement and will wait and see what grand ideas they are going to come up with to determine what lies ahead.

Our illustrious Governor says public employees have to get more in line with the private sector. I can understand that, but what they don't want to talk about is why the private sector is in the shape it's in. Their (I mean our great political leaders both State and Federal) policies -name it - taxes, trade, and other economic idiocy has decimated the private sector. I agree with Jess, this is not a Republican or Democrat issue... they are all culpable. Maybe all of 'em should start doing what needs done for the middle class.

But then again what do I know...

[valkmc]

Florida is in a similar situation....except our pension fund is fully funded and is the 4th strongest state fund in the country...now the new Gov (actually crook who stole billions from US tax payers in medicare billing) is trying to change it and get his hands on the funds. He actually called teachers the privilaged class even though we are paid 37th in the country of the 50 states. We have the 5th highest test scores for students.

I want to roll my retirement into something I can pay into myself and get out of FRS (Florida state retirement)..however this is not an option, if you work for them you have to use their retirement even if you have to pay into it yourself...I don't trust them with my $$$$.

[old2soon]

I don't trust ANY GOVERNMENT WITH MY MONEY. But sometimes due to circumstances-i don't have a lot of say in the matter.

[Hoser]

My Kansas firefighter pension is supposedly safe, but I still worry about it.  On the other hand I rolled over the maximum into a 451K that I paid into myself, and I have't touched it. I have already drawn out more than I paid in my monthly pension check.  That's why I still worry about it.  I find that hard to figure out.       hoser

[alph]

Wow.  Everyone is blaming the republicans for all this financial ruin.  Well, here in Wisconsin we have a governor that started this whole “pay for what you get” thing.  But let me remind everyone of some history.  The previous governor of eight years was a democrat, things got so bad that he decided NOT to run for reelection.  He knew someone had to pay the piper and he didn’t want ANY part of it.  Now we have a governor that knows how bad things are, he knows that the NON union workers have been biting the bullet for the last 20+ years with increased taxes and fees.  He knows Wisconsin has been in the top 10 highest taxed states in America for over two decades, for several years we were up to being # 3, and he knows we’re bankrupt.  So now he’s got to make cuts anywhere he can, just so turns out that the ONLY well that hasn’t been tapped yet was the state unions.  Well, it’s TAPPING TIME !!

Tomorrow Governor Walker announces layoffs and shutdowns.  We can not continue to spend money the way we have been anymore.  We NEED to cut back in government spending and for once in many many years, BALANCE THE BUDGET. 

You think things are bad now?  Wait until Uncle Sam has to pay back OUR NATIONAL DEBT!!!

[czuch]

I retired when I was in my 20's.
Took the time off, fooled around, stayed high, rode motorcycles alot, camped alot, had tons-o-fun.
Now I have a good job, responsibilities, mortgage all the duties and worries of a model citizen.
I'm on the body bag retirement plan. For the longest time I thought maybe I'd screwed up.
 Now,,, well, not so much. I'm no fan-o-bammy and company and the repubs arent much better.
I think that Alph said it best.

[valkmc]

I am blaming both parties, the financial trouble we are all in is not because teachers or fireman or LEO's have pensions or make good wages because in most states we don't, it is because for years politicians have mismanged gov size, investments and spending. However the workers are now being targeted to pay back the mess.

I have no problem paying for my own retirment, I have for many years, however if the gov is taking my money I think I should be able to decide where to put it. Most sane people realize if you work for the gov your pay is about to be reduced unless you are in congress or an elected official. What strikes me as dangerous is taking away by the passing of laws the common man,s ability to ban together against the gov. or employers. Sounds like the way they do things in china. The union debate can go on forever but if they pass these type of laws who or what is next. No unions for truck drivers, maybe carpenters, who knows.

[tivoklr]

This all comes down to the continued tax breaks for the wealthiest 1% of the people and corporations in the country, and the fact that the richest are not paying their FAIR share into the till.

Union busting is evil, I'm sorry, but the Governor got what he asked for in concessions and still pushes for more, showing his true colors. If you're anti-organized labor that's your prerogative, and there's no way I'm going to argue you out of that position. However, when the unions in WI were asked to make sacrifices they did, and still, it was not enough.

So honestly, is this all about "saving the state" or protecting the wealthy (even more)?

To the OP, retire TODAY while you still have some pension left to collect. We're all going to hell in this handbasket together...

[Jeff K]

The cost of my benefits went up again this year... Anyone know where I can find a few people to come and protest for me? About 100,000 should do the trick.

Thanks in advance...

[Willow]

This all comes down to the continued tax breaks for the wealthiest 1% of the people and corporations in the country, and the fact that the richest are not paying their FAIR share into the till.

Just a quick observation regarding rich corporations and taxes - corporations don't pay taxes.  We, the customers, pay taxes levied on corporations.  We, the customers, are their only source of funds.

I find it interesting that the same people want to add taxes to the "rich oil corporations" and concurrently complain about the high cost of fuel.  I wonder where do they think the "rich oil corporations" would get the money to pay additional taxes?

[Jeff K]

This all comes down to the continued tax breaks for the wealthiest 1% of the people and corporations in the country, and the fact that the richest are not paying their FAIR share into the till.

Just a quick observation regarding rich corporations and taxes - corporations don't pay taxes.  We, the customers, pay taxes levied on corporations.  We, the customers, are their only source of funds.

I find it interesting that the same people want to add taxes to the "rich oil corporations" and concurrently complain about the high cost of fuel.  I wonder where do they think the "rich oil corporations" would get the money to pay additional taxes?

Well... out of their obscene profits of course.
Just getting it out there first. 

[MNBill]

I have it figured out so everything is paid off when I retire, a Part time job for the toys (one of which is a used fifth wheel to camp in). The pension will give me enough to live off but the Mrs. is working and if it comes down to it we can make it on her pay.

[valkmc]

I have it figured out so everything is paid off when I retire, a Part time job for the toys (one of which is a used fifth wheel to camp in). The pension will give me enough to live off but the Mrs. is working and if it comes down to it we can make it on her pay.

I guess that is why I married someone 13 years younger than me...now if I can get her to support my bike habit I will be on easy street.

[hotglue #43]

Its all about planning......and starting early!!!!!... that's for ya young folks.....
Never made big bucks...... but saved 25% of what I made for 36 years......it adds up.  Ya save it.... ya have it if ya need it.....  and ya still have it if ya don't need it.
  Don't expect SS to be around when I can get it.....  that's why ya do it for yourself!!!!!

[KW]

I’m really tempted to jump into this whole mess because frankly, when I hear things that are so factually incorrect to the point of being an outright LIE, I want to dive into the pool headfirst and start swinging away! Instead I will make one simple observation based on historical precedent. When a society starts using ‘class warfare’ as a 'tool' or 'weapon' to perpetuate their particular political point of view, it has spelled the END of that civilization! Without exception.   

[Chattanooga Mark]

It's not a Republican or a Democrat thing. The system that union bosses and politicians forced upon the municipalities around the country is 100% unsustainable. It's a Ponzi scheme, a house of cards. As soon as the 'bubble' stopped growing, the system fell apart and become obvious to everyone.  If you confiscated 100% of the income of the top 10% you wouldn't come close to having enough money to fund all the unfunded pension plans in the country. Why anyone thinks they're 'entitiled' to any else's income is beyond me. A 3 minute glance into who pays taxes in this country and it's clear to see we don't have enough tax payers. That's why I'm a flat tax advocate. If you make $10K, $100K or $100M a year, everyone should pay the exact same rate. From their first dollar and up.

There have been many, many reports the last couple years showing where public sector employees are making a lot more than their private sector counterparts. No municipality can afford to pay the public sector what they demanded over the years regardless of there local economy.

My 401(k) is barely worth what it was 6 years ago, the house is completely upside down and my property taxes doubled. Like most taxpayers, I'm tapped out with very little patience for a demanding public sector worker. Politicians, union bosses and very bad men have pitted Americans against each other. It will get much worse this year and next. Welcome to America.

All the best,

Mark

[Tropic traveler]

Let me see if I can simplify this scenerio a bit. Think big picture, medium term.

You have a HUGE GOV'T DEBT here.
Run up over the years by BOTH partys
NOT thinking in a conservative manner.


You have a HUGE SUM of money over here.
Public AND private retirement money.
Savings & investments too.



Soon....... The shoe drops, the doo-doo hits the fan, the fat lady sings, the wolf comes to the door.. Call it what you want.
What do YOU think is going to happen??????????


I think I know........ Big debt gets filled by big sum of money.... It's only FAIR you know.
POOF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! We are all instant wards of the state.
The prepared AND the unprepared, all equally miserable & dancing to the same piper. Wanna bet what kind of folks wanna be piping?
Aint too hard to see if you just step back & look.  

BTW... National Health Care will have to happen first.
It's only fair you know. Kinda fits don't it?
Depressing.











                                              

[Chiefy]

Hope your pension doesn't get caught up in the mess where you live right now. 

I know so many folks who seem to think State, County, and City employees are showered with money.  Around here, I checked out employment with both the city and county.  The pay was bad, real bad.  (At least to start,) and I have skills and experience.

[RoadKill]

Mr.HotGlue nailed it! Don't depend on anyone except yourself and you will know EXACTLY who to blame. Depend on the Gov't and you have to pick a side and then decide if it was Hillary or George when in reality....Who put the eggs in that 1 freakin basket?

[x]

Government employees are about the only ones left that have defined benefits plans... ie, you are guaranteed certain benefits.  Almost everyone else is on a defined contributions plan... what you get out depends entirely upon the stock market and the screwing you get by Wall Street and Republican deregulation of everything.
 
So, I am fine with seeing government employees moving into the norm... it's just not right to not grandfather in those who have paid for most of their lives.

[sheets]

Taking a serious look at the numbers. Looking to pull the plug a year early. Was planning on October of 2012, but the way the political winds are blowing... think I'll jump ship before the public has a chance to vote on my life. October of 2011 will wrap up 37 years. Haven't taken a sick day in twenty-five years. I made the choice to work for less net pay but decent benefits. Hopefully I'll be grandfathered in and be protected from the verdict read by the jury in the court of popular opinion. They don't know what they don't know. The public gets worked into a frenzy over what the press prints. Bits and pieces of fragmented misinformation put together to read like the gospel. The voters take the bait hook line and sinker. I've contributed to my own retirement since day 1. Employer contributes almost as much. What the press doesn't tell anybody is that it takes on average ten years for the retired employee to draw "his/her" money before the person benefits from the company's contribution. Factual statistics show most of us don't live long enough to get into the company's pocket. We go away... they keep their money banking on the next guy to croak within ten years. Yrmv,   

[Walküre]

Government employees are about the only ones left that have defined benefits plans... ie, you are guaranteed certain benefits.  Almost everyone else is on a defined contributions plan... what you get out depends entirely upon the stock market and the screwing you get by Wall Street and Republican deregulation of everything.
 
So, I am fine with seeing government employees moving into the norm... it's just not right to not grandfather in those who have paid for most of their lives.

Hmmm...as someone said, when "class warfare" is a tool or weapon, down we go. Public sector jobs, as  a rule, ARE lower pay. But, to compensate, "promises" were made, that down the road, it would work out equally. But now, that we are "down the road", Wisconsin, Indiana, Ohio, and soon, sadly, others want to take those promises away, PLUS any FUTURE attempts at promises.

In the land on the blind, he with one eye, is king. However, now, everyone is running around with pointy sticks, hoping to stab the king in the eye...

There's a CEO, a Politician, a Union worker, and a non-Union worker, sitting around a table. There's a plate with a dozen cookies on the table. The CEO reaches over, and takes 8 of the cookies. The Politician takes another 3, then they both turn to the non-Union guy, and say "hey, watchout!! That Union thug wants part of your cookie!!!

Geez...just remember, when they are done coming for us, they are coming for YOU!!!!

[MNBill]

Like you said the sad part is no one knows really what they are talking about in the public pension world. The state does not support or promise me a pension. It is a fund that I and my employer contribute to that invests the money in stocks bonds etc to create the pension fund. MN even tried to make us invest in a bankrupt airline so they would "Stay in MN" but the board and members would not do it. There is not Goverment promise or health care, just a group fund that makes money through investments like anyone else can do with their money. Your tax dollars are not at risk in my pension and you have no future obligation. Our fund is doing badly and we are taking the hit by getting less money in raises and payments. Poeple always slam us when they do not have a clue what is really going on.

[Jeff K]

Government employees are about the only ones left that have defined benefits plans... ie, you are guaranteed certain benefits.  Almost everyone else is on a defined contributions plan... what you get out depends entirely upon the stock market and the screwing you get by Wall Street and Republican deregulation of everything.
 
So, I am fine with seeing government employees moving into the norm... it's just not right to not grandfather in those who have paid for most of their lives.

Geez...just remember, when they are done coming for us, they are coming for YOU!!!!

I've got news for you, they came for us a long time ago, "we" are bled dry.

My Sister in law works for the county jail. She used to brag about how much knitting she could get done at work. And she seems to have endless paid time off. She is one of the Protesters in Madison now. She told us that she is easily replaceable and she is worried about keeping her job. She went from ultra conservative, to raging liberal in 60 seconds.

This "sky is falling" they are coming for you next is a bunch of BS. I've had government jammed  up my back side for decades.

[Jabba]

I see what others stereotype as typical, government workers.  They might not make a lot of money.  But the benefits are better than most.  The time off is better than most.  and they have 10 employees to do 5 or 6 jobs.

The same for the Unions IMO.  It's not that I have heartburn with a union worker making a good wage.  I have trouble with 10 union workers making good wages to do 5 jobs.

Jabba

[Daniel Meyer]

Well, here in the private sector they killed my pension 4 years ago. 25 years vested into it...one of the reasons I chose this company...and stayed with it when I would have otherwise left.

First they canceled the medical part that went with it, then they killed the entire thing.

"boop" just like that. I got a "lump sum" of about $2500...for 25 years vested...and that was in company stock into my 401k...company stock which is worth about $120 right now.