Bobbo
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« Reply #40 on: March 03, 2011, 01:57:13 PM » |
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I don't see why the WBC can't be arrested for disturbing the peace...
Would you also apply this law to the TEA party demonstrations? Laws will apply for ALL people, not specific groups based on their message. ....if they are protesting at a funeral then yes... WBC protesters are careful not to protest AT funerals, but nearby on public use land.
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fudgie
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Better to be judged by 12, then carried by 6.
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« Reply #41 on: March 03, 2011, 02:15:53 PM » |
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I don't see why the WBC can't be arrested for disturbing the peace...
Would you also apply this law to the TEA party demonstrations? Laws will apply for ALL people, not specific groups based on their message. I disagree. We have groups of people that stand up for what they believe but then are considered rascist, bigots, hate groups, etc. There are double standards for groups. Are you describing TEA party members or WBC members?! Your statement applies to both groups! Yea I guess it does.
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 Now you're in the world of the wolves... And we welcome all you sheep... VRCC-#7196 VRCCDS-#0175 DTR PGR
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fudgie
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Better to be judged by 12, then carried by 6.
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« Reply #42 on: March 03, 2011, 02:17:13 PM » |
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There have been hate groups standing behind free speech before this and there will be after,I'm sure. Used to just "run them off" and go about business. Now we just talk about it and let the court decide what is good or bad. If this was a KKK group doing 20yrs ago what WBC does now it would have NEVER gone this far... and they would not have been back.The 1st amendment has not changed..the populace has  Yep, thats what I was trying to say without being called a racist. You are better with words then me.
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 Now you're in the world of the wolves... And we welcome all you sheep... VRCC-#7196 VRCCDS-#0175 DTR PGR
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RoadKill
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« Reply #43 on: March 03, 2011, 03:16:46 PM » |
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There have been hate groups standing behind free speech before this and there will be after,I'm sure. Used to just "run them off" and go about business. Now we just talk about it and let the court decide what is good or bad. If this was a KKK group doing 20yrs ago what WBC does now it would have NEVER gone this far... and they would not have been back.The 1st amendment has not changed..the populace has  Yep, thats what I was trying to say without being called a racist. You are better with words then me. See what happens when you try to be "P.C." ? I dont worry about it and I say some dumb crap too...ALOT !  The 1st amendment guarantees them the right to,but there are ways to persuade them that they dont need/want to exercise that right. and it CAN be done peacefully ( thats my story and I'm sticking to it) I was with you all week,no where near WBC...Right? 
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3fan4life
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Any day that you ride is a good day!
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« Reply #44 on: March 03, 2011, 04:00:33 PM » |
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I think you don't have an understanding of WBC's message. Their message is not to defile American solders, but to say (as crazy as it is) the USA is being punished for being tolerant of homosexuality, and the death of our solders (and others) is a manifestation of God's wrath.
This ruling validates the very principals that our Constitution and solders uphold.
The Idiots at WBC are a bunch of bigots and about any other negative term that you can think of to describe them. What they are not is Good Christians or Good Americans. And as far as their RIGHT to protest.............. Try this get a group of people together, make up some protest signs and go stand outside a mosque protesting 911 and see how long it takes before the police threaten to arrest you. My gues is that it won't be long. My point is..... that the laws are NOT enforced fairly.
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1 Corinthians 1:18 
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RTaz
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Michigan...Home of InZane X -XI
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« Reply #45 on: March 04, 2011, 04:44:06 AM » |
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[/quote]
....if they are protesting at a funeral then yes... [/quote]
WBC protesters are careful not to protest AT funerals, but nearby on public use land. [/quote]
Not true... 20-Jun-06 Lance Cpl. Brandon J. Webb, 20 Swartz Creek Mi.....
WBC set up in the parking lot of a Home Depot...Lance Cpl. Brandon Webb was also a Fireman, the Fire Dept. parked their trucks in front of the WBC...and Home Depot call the police and asked them to remove the WBC from their property which they did...so I would have to say they were protesting "AT" the funeral.
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Bobbo
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« Reply #46 on: March 04, 2011, 07:00:52 AM » |
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Not true... 20-Jun-06 Lance Cpl. Brandon J. Webb, 20 Swartz Creek Mi.....
WBC set up in the parking lot of a Home Depot...Lance Cpl. Brandon Webb was also a Fireman, the Fire Dept. parked their trucks in front of the WBC...and Home Depot call the police and asked them to remove the WBC from their property which they did...so I would have to say they were protesting "AT" the funeral.
I can only find news stories like this one: "Church members planned to protest at Lance Cpl. Brandon Webb's funeral, also in 2006. Samida, Webb's mother, says at the last minute the group backed out."http://abclocal.go.com/wjrt/story?section=news/local&id=7990651Westboro parishioner and attorney Shirley Phelps-Roper said group members bought airline tickets, but they were told by the Holy Ghost at the last minute to stay home. Also, it appears that Mundy Township is billing them $5000 for not showing up. Can you post the link to a news story that has more detail?
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« Last Edit: March 04, 2011, 07:21:15 AM by Bobbo »
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RTaz
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« Reply #47 on: March 04, 2011, 11:10:35 AM » |
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Not true... 20-Jun-06 Lance Cpl. Brandon J. Webb, 20 Swartz Creek Mi.....
WBC set up in the parking lot of a Home Depot...Lance Cpl. Brandon Webb was also a Fireman, the Fire Dept. parked their trucks in front of the WBC...and Home Depot call the police and asked them to remove the WBC from their property which they did...so I would have to say they were protesting "AT" the funeral.
I can only find news stories like this one: "Church members planned to protest at Lance Cpl. Brandon Webb's funeral, also in 2006. Samida, Webb's mother, says at the last minute the group backed out."http://abclocal.go.com/wjrt/story?section=news/local&id=7990651Westboro parishioner and attorney Shirley Phelps-Roper said group members bought airline tickets, but they were told by the Holy Ghost at the last minute to stay home. Also, it appears that Mundy Township is billing them $5000 for not showing up. Can you post the link to a news story that has more detail? I was there...along with about 500 PGR,VFW, active servicemen and women,Policemen and Firemen and citizen lining the streets for miles in each direction...they had a white rented van which the police escorted to Bishop airport ...check it out all you want ...like I said I was there.
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Bobbo
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« Reply #48 on: March 04, 2011, 11:48:27 AM » |
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Not true... 20-Jun-06 Lance Cpl. Brandon J. Webb, 20 Swartz Creek Mi.....
WBC set up in the parking lot of a Home Depot...Lance Cpl. Brandon Webb was also a Fireman, the Fire Dept. parked their trucks in front of the WBC...and Home Depot call the police and asked them to remove the WBC from their property which they did...so I would have to say they were protesting "AT" the funeral.
I can only find news stories like this one: "Church members planned to protest at Lance Cpl. Brandon Webb's funeral, also in 2006. Samida, Webb's mother, says at the last minute the group backed out."http://abclocal.go.com/wjrt/story?section=news/local&id=7990651Westboro parishioner and attorney Shirley Phelps-Roper said group members bought airline tickets, but they were told by the Holy Ghost at the last minute to stay home. Also, it appears that Mundy Township is billing them $5000 for not showing up. Can you post the link to a news story that has more detail? I was there...along with about 500 PGR,VFW, active servicemen and women,Policemen and Firemen and citizen lining the streets for miles in each direction...they had a white rented van which the police escorted to Bishop airport ...check it out all you want ...like I said I was there. Then I'm not sure why every news account contradicts your statement.
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RTaz
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« Reply #49 on: March 04, 2011, 01:02:21 PM » |
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not going to argue with you bobbo...the point is this...they do protest AT funerals...technical wording is BS...they come to Michigan and protest at FUNERALS of fallen soldiers they yell disgusting things to families of fallen soldiers ...you don't see them with their sign's anywhere else in Michigan BUT at a fallen soldiers funeral...support their rights if you want...I won't period ...you can have the last word ...don't care I will be holding my flag at Sergeant Kristopher J. Gould service along with my wife and family and probably a few pgr members whether the WBC show up or not because that is the real mission of the pgr respect for the Fallen soldier and his family...and you can keep on fighting for peoples rights.
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Devl
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« Reply #50 on: March 04, 2011, 04:34:54 PM » |
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Well...thats the problem Bobbo. If your only source is the politically based news programs and newspapers, then your only getting the information "they" want you to have. Please don't be so naive to think that everything that is in print, or said on the TV is the truth. And, since that is where the internet gets all their information that they post, this format is equally undependable. Take it all with a grain of salt and sort through the B.S. Keep an open mind and be prepared to change it, if need be. Just becuz we have the right to do something doesn't mean its the right thing to do  Now, go kiss the wife and kiddies and watch a good reality show and RELAX!!  Have a good evening 
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« Last Edit: March 04, 2011, 08:12:51 PM by Devl »
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Devl
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3fan4life
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Any day that you ride is a good day!
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« Reply #51 on: March 04, 2011, 06:52:18 PM » |
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What the idiots at WBC were fighting was a $5,000,000.00 judgement that had been brought against them as the result of a lawsuit that had been filed on behalf of the family of a Marine Cpl who was KIA. Justice Samuel Alito was the only one to rule in favor of the family of the late Lance Cpl. Matthew Snyder. "Our profound national commitment to free and open debate is not a license for the vicious verbal assault that occurred in this case," Alito wrote in his dissent.The link is to a write up about this on Military.com: http://www.military.com/news/article/high-court-rules-in-favor-of-westboro-church.html?ESRC=dod.nlThe bottom line does seem to be that the idiots at WBC are using this to make money, and they were fighting not to have to give any of it away. 
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1 Corinthians 1:18 
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Bobbo
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« Reply #52 on: March 04, 2011, 09:30:35 PM » |
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Well...thats the problem Bobbo. If your only source is the politically based news programs and newspapers, then your only getting the information "they" want you to have. Please don't be so naive to think that everything that is in print, or said on the TV is the truth. And, since that is where the internet gets all their information that they post, this format is equally undependable. Take it all with a grain of salt and sort through the B.S. Keep an open mind and be prepared to change it, if need be. Just becuz we have the right to do something doesn't mean its the right thing to do  Now, go kiss the wife and kiddies and watch a good reality show and RELAX!!  Have a good evening  If you think newspapers, online news, and even the local news station have conspired to hide the truth in this story, even making up the bill sent to Westboro, then I suggest you stop watching reality shows, leave your mom's basement, and get some fresh air! 
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Bobbo
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« Reply #53 on: March 04, 2011, 09:42:23 PM » |
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Justice Samuel Alito was the only one to rule in favor of the family of the late Lance Cpl. Matthew Snyder. "Our profound national commitment to free and open debate is not a license for the vicious verbal assault that occurred in this case," Alito wrote in his dissent.
I believe the good Justice Alito was caught up in the emotion of this case. He apparently didn't consider that the verbal assault is directed at US government policy and homosexuals. They consider the solders deaths as the outcome of these policies, and cheer it on. My statements don't endorse these actions or beliefs, just attempt to explain them.
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Jabba
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VRCCDS0197
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« Reply #54 on: March 05, 2011, 05:19:53 AM » |
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Just becuz we have the right to do something doesn't mean its the right thing to do
That's absolutely true. But... if we don't defend THEIR right to say despicable things... who'd gonna defend OUR right to question our government? I hate what they are doing, and will ride PGR to counteract them. If there happens to be a throw down... I'll be in it. But that does not mean I think the court should sensor them. And I understand that this recent SCOTUS case wasn't really about that. Jabba
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Jess from VA
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« Reply #55 on: March 05, 2011, 05:44:50 AM » |
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The members of the church,....the Phelps family,...are all lawyers. Not all practicing lawyers, but they all went to law school. They know exactly what they can get away with and how far they can take it, and still remain legal. They represented themselves to the Supreme Court so I believe they know what they are doing. They choose to protest outside of funerals for soldiers because they know how dispicable we all think it is. And every time they do it, they get mass media coverage. It has nothing to do with soldiers, or the military, it only has to do with spewing their ultra-religious fanatical garbage and getting it to the largest audience they can. This is their venue for doing this.
The best thing to do would for all of the media to simply ignore them. Stop covering the stories. The funeral goers will have to deal with and also ignore them. They just need to be reminded that they protesting has nothing to do with their loved one and nothing to do with them.
Very true...... but getting someone to lay in a ton of napalm on one of their family meetings at the compound would be a hoot nonetheless.
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Bobbo
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« Reply #56 on: March 05, 2011, 07:54:42 AM » |
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Dude the newspapers and media are a bunch of morons that twist everything and some even just downright do not tell what is the truth. The media just wants a story to make them look good and important. SOME not all some don't care if it's true or not they just want to tell whatever they can about certain events. I find it a shame that people are so close minded they believe some stupid news programs and feel the need to sit here and fight about A DEAD SOLDIERS FUNERAL!!! MOVE ON WITH YOUR LIFE DUDE!!! I really do not think anyone is here on this board to fight with individuals that, basically, come on here just to fight ( based on the numerous posts). Just relax and talk about your bike and where you want to ride or something. YOU DO OWN A BIKE DON'T YOU? I have never heard you talk about it you just seem to have smart remarks for everyone.
If intense discussion and debate confuse and upset you, I suggest that you not read or participate in them.
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Jabba
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VRCCDS0197
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« Reply #57 on: March 05, 2011, 08:07:46 AM » |
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If intense discussion and debate confuse and upset you, I suggest that you not read or participate in them.
I think the world would be a boring place if we all agreed about everything. I change my mind sometimes about stuff when people give me logical arguments. for example the right to work stuff going on. I am pretty ANTI-Union overall, but I am not an advocate of the right to work legislation. It's a government solution to a private sector problem. The companies have allowed themselves to get strong armed into a bad situation, and it's time they sack-up and renegotiate a better deal. That's why companies are leaving the country... lest I digress and blur the thread. Jabba
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Monkey Boy
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« Reply #58 on: March 05, 2011, 08:32:20 AM » |
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Dude the newspapers and media are a bunch of morons that twist everything and some even just downright do not tell what is the truth. The media just wants a story to make them look good and important. SOME not all some don't care if it's true or not they just want to tell whatever they can about certain events. I find it a shame that people are so close minded they believe some stupid news programs and feel the need to sit here and fight about A DEAD SOLDIERS FUNERAL!!! MOVE ON WITH YOUR LIFE DUDE!!! I really do not think anyone is here on this board to fight with individuals that, basically, come on here just to fight ( based on the numerous posts). Just relax and talk about your bike and where you want to ride or something. YOU DO OWN A BIKE DON'T YOU? I have never heard you talk about it you just seem to have smart remarks for everyone.
If intense discussion and debate confuse and upset you, I suggest that you not read or participate in them. Hey Bobbo, Why is it that you feel I am confused? Is it because you think I am stupid, because I think what you are trying to justify is wrong? Well I am not confused I am a little upset by the actions of these people, because they have absolutely no respect for these kids that gave their life to help them secure the things they enjoy everyday. I don't claim to be the sharpest tool in the shed by any means but I am far from stupid. I am done participating in any more of these POLITICAL like threads because you can't debate with a person that has all the answers and is obviously smarter than everyone. I guess I will only look at the topics this site was made for, remember what that is Bobbo?, MOTORCYCLES and RIDING them.
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Bobbo
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« Reply #59 on: March 05, 2011, 08:54:38 AM » |
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Dude the newspapers and media are a bunch of morons that twist everything and some even just downright do not tell what is the truth. The media just wants a story to make them look good and important. SOME not all some don't care if it's true or not they just want to tell whatever they can about certain events. I find it a shame that people are so close minded they believe some stupid news programs and feel the need to sit here and fight about A DEAD SOLDIERS FUNERAL!!! MOVE ON WITH YOUR LIFE DUDE!!! I really do not think anyone is here on this board to fight with individuals that, basically, come on here just to fight ( based on the numerous posts). Just relax and talk about your bike and where you want to ride or something. YOU DO OWN A BIKE DON'T YOU? I have never heard you talk about it you just seem to have smart remarks for everyone.
If intense discussion and debate confuse and upset you, I suggest that you not read or participate in them. Hey Bobbo, Why is it that you feel I am confused? Is it because you think I am stupid, because I think what you are trying to justify is wrong? Well I am not confused I am a little upset by the actions of these people, because they have absolutely no respect for these kids that gave their life to help them secure the things they enjoy everyday. I don't claim to be the sharpest tool in the shed by any means but I am far from stupid. I am done participating in any more of these POLITICAL like threads because you can't debate with a person that has all the answers and is obviously smarter than everyone. I guess I will only look at the topics this site was made for, remember what that is Bobbo?, MOTORCYCLES and RIDING them. I made no comment regarding your intellect, but you seem confused over the subject, and what is discussed here. Instead of adding your insight and opinion of the legal ruling and it's implications, you merely attack the idea of discussing it here. John Schmidt addressed the history and purpose of the General Board recently in another thread: http://www.valkyrieforum.com/bbs/index.php/topic,25688.msg231493.html#msg231493
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SlowRoad
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Heart of a Legend with a whole lot of Soul
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« Reply #60 on: March 05, 2011, 09:07:06 AM » |
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They choose to protest outside of funerals for soldiers because they know how dispicable we all think it is. And every time they do it, they get mass media coverage. It has nothing to do with soldiers, or the military, it only has to do with spewing their ultra-religious fanatical garbage and getting it to the largest audience they can. This is their venue for doing this.
The best thing to do would for all of the media to simpley ignore them. Stop covering the stories. The funeral goers will have to deal with and also ignore them. They just need to be reminded that they protesting has nothing to do with their loved one and nothing to do with them.
 Absolutely. Everyone ignore them and they would go away!!
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musclehead
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« Reply #61 on: March 05, 2011, 03:24:43 PM » |
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Our Judicial system has just defiled every soul of every SOLDIER that has ever paid the ultimate price. I also think they are telling all the people that are occupying our soil that it's okay to completely disrespect our nation and it's idea's. I don't have a problem with free speech, I do believe you have a right talk about anything you want, but to publicly defile the people that defend your right to do so is without a doubt a very large step over the line. These people are Terrorist's not Baptist's. I know for a fact that in a not to distant past, if this group were to show up at a soldiers funeral and regurgetate their crap we wouldn't be waiting for a Supreme court ruling to tell us if they are right or wrong.
I think you don't have an understanding of WBC's message. Their message is not to defile American solders, but to say (as crazy as it is) the USA is being punished for being tolerant of homosexuality, and the death of our solders (and others) is a manifestation of God's wrath. This ruling validates the very principals that our Constitution and solders uphold. I agree in part with Mr Bobbo I'm not really sure of the message they are trying to bring but they have the right to say it, we have to uphold the right of free speach even in the case of buffoons like these people. the freedom sandwich doesn't taste good all the time. we can continue to counter thier protests by showing up in numbers, they have cancelled several planned protests because the word got out that they were coming to town and hundreds of citizens showed up with signs of thier own. they want the publicity of being off by themselves for the photo oppertunity. the PGR should continue thier efforts as well. when these dweebs came to Oregon to protest the entire state rose up against them. I rode with the PGR on the sunday ride past the families homes in madras OR, but had to work on tuesday during the funerals the PGR was there in numbers far greater then the phelps gang. somehow the protestors ended up on the pass behind trafficthey flew into portland airport and rented cars for the drive over to madras. surprise! that was the day ODOT decided to do some "repairs" up there. I found out later from a friend that works for ODOT it was all planned, they had side roads closed off and the pass up around government camp was blocked for hours enough time for the families to grieve in peace. I've never been so proud of Oregon.
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'in the tunnels uptown, the Rats own dream guns him down. the shots echo down them hallways in the night' - the Boss
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3fan4life
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Any day that you ride is a good day!
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« Reply #62 on: March 07, 2011, 01:53:12 PM » |
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I believe the good Justice Alito was caught up in the emotion of this case. He apparently didn't consider that the verbal assault is directed at US government policy and homosexuals. They consider the solders deaths as the outcome of these policies, and cheer it on. My statements don't endorse these actions or beliefs, just attempt to explain them. I understand that the WBC idiots profess to be protesting homosexuals. I question why they choose to do so at the funerals of american servicemen and women. If they have a "beef" with homosexuals then why don't they protest outside of "gay" bars, or why don't they protest outside of the Academy awards? My guess is that they know that this wouldn't be tolerated. And I suspect that the authorities would find a reason to arrest them. I understand the free speech issues, but you can't yell "fire" in a crowded theater and you shouldn't be able to disrespect familes in their time of grief. In the end these "HOLY ROLLERS" will get their "just dessrts".
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« Reply #63 on: March 07, 2011, 01:59:31 PM » |
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I understand that the WBC idiots profess to be protesting homosexuals. I question why they choose to do so at the funerals of american servicemen and women.
If they have a "beef" with homosexuals then why don't they protest outside of "gay" bars, or why don't they protest outside of the Academy awards?
The reason they protest the way they do instead of gay bars or the Academy Awards (Although they have protested enough other things like that in the past) is because they're not really protesting against homosexuality. IMHO they couldn't care less about it. They WANT people to get upset. They WANT people to throw things at them, pick a fight with them, vandalize their property, attack them, etc. They WANT municipalities to pass unconstitutional laws against them. They WANT cities to deny them protest permits. THAT is their GOAL. Why? Almost the entire family (And it is a family masquerading as a church, never lose sight of that) are lawyers. It costs them almost nothing to file lawsuit after lawsuit. They win, and then they go for "Legal Fees", making the losing side pay THEM for the privilege of being sued by these clowns. It's all a money making scam people, there's no religion to it, no protesting of homosexuals or against anything else, it's just a scam to make money... The TRULY scary part is how well it works...
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Never ask a geek 'Why?',just nod your head and slowly back away...  IBA# 22107 VRCC# 7976 VRCCDS# 226 1998 Valkyrie Standard 2008 Gold Wing Taxation is theft. μολὼν λαβέ
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« Reply #64 on: March 07, 2011, 02:30:03 PM » |
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I believe the good Justice Alito was caught up in the emotion of this case. He apparently didn't consider that the verbal assault is directed at US government policy and homosexuals. They consider the solders deaths as the outcome of these policies, and cheer it on. My statements don't endorse these actions or beliefs, just attempt to explain them. I understand that the WBC idiots profess to be protesting homosexuals. I question why they choose to do so at the funerals of american servicemen and women. If they have a "beef" with homosexuals then why don't they protest outside of "gay" bars, or why don't they protest outside of the Academy awards? My guess is that they know that this wouldn't be tolerated. And I suspect that the authorities would find a reason to arrest them. I understand the free speech issues, but you can't yell "fire" in a crowded theater and you shouldn't be able to disrespect familes in their time of grief. In the end these "HOLY ROLLERS" will get their "just dessrts". The answer to your question is contained in my post you quoted. They are not saying that God is punishing the USA by building "gay" bars or rewarding actors, but by killing soldiers. They are showing support for God's wrath by cheering the death of our soldiers. I know it's hard to follow that twisted message, but that's what they say. I agree that this is mostly a cover to attract negative attention and attacks on them, which they turn into cash with the court system. They set the trap, and easily angered and gullible people fall into it.
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