Pastor Terry Jones denied freedom of speech in Dearborn

[Momz]

I am a christian and I believe in the Ten Commandments. But I am also an American the believes in our Constitution and the Bill of Rights.

I may not agree with everthing Pastor Jones preaches,...but what has happened to "freedom of speech".
Why is OK for muslims to destroy Bibles, but it not right to burn the Quran?

Is this what our founding fathers wanted?

[tank_post142]

people don't die all over the world when a bible is burnt.i don't give a crap about the rags but he's was warned and should get his a$$ kicked. 20+ people died last time.

[Chrisj CMA]

The government is predisposed to pander to the Muslims right now.  It started to get bad in the last administration when we were at war with terror but not with Muslims.  The problem is Muslims are at war with us and we are too policially correct to even say we recognize it.  I know...I know... peaceful people them muslims are all full of love love love....yeah right until they get enough of them in one place and then things change.  If even muslims say its not a religion, then why do they have the right to demand the things sharia law provides here in America.  Its time to just say NO!  DONT LIKE IT........THERES THE DOOR

[Momz]

20+ people were killed because of a Quran burning?

The radical Islamists or should we just call them "terrorists" don't need much provocation do they?
How many Qurans were burned to insure that planes destroyed the WTC and all those lives?

But our Constitution and Bill of Rights do gurantee certain freedoms wether we agree or not.
It is not illegal to be racist,...it is just not "politcally correct".
I am tolerant of most beliefs. Be they pro-Jewish, pro-Buddist, pro-Islam even anti-Christian views.

Are we Americans afraid of controversary? Are we willing to forgo our rights? Next, maybe we should stop the Patriot Gaurd Missions as they might offend someone?

[donaldcc]

  
   I hate to have to defend this bigoted a$$hole's rights. But I do. Because if Terry Jones does not have freedom of speech and the right to protest, my rights are at risk too.

  Dearborn Michigan allowed a jury to determine if Jones had the right to protest near mosque without paying a $100,000 (according to Jones) "peace bond".   When jury ruled that protest "would be likely to breach the peace". Jones and Sapp are prohibited by the court from going to the mosque or adjacent property for three years.  They were jailed by the judge when they refused to pay a $1 bond.
  
    All of this is blatantly unconstitutional. The boundaries of the First Amendment are not determined by juries. And the practice of requiring those who wish to protest to put up bonds before holding controversial protests was declared unconstitutional decades ago by federal courts.

  Now I DON'T want to infer in any way that I support this A Hole, but Dearborn made a mistake here.

[X Ring]

 
   I hate to have to defend this bigoted a$$hole's rights. But I do. Because if Terry Jones does not have freedom of speech and the right to protest, my rights are at risk too.

  Dearborn Michigan allowed a jury to determine if Jones had the right to protest near mosque without paying a $100,000 (according to Jones) "peace bond".   When jury ruled that protest "would be likely to breach the peace". Jones and Sapp are prohibited by the court from going to the mosque or adjacent property for three years.  They were jailed by the judge when they refused to pay a $1 bond.
  
    All of this is blatantly unconstitutional. The boundaries of the First Amendment are not determined by juries. And the practice of requiring those who wish to protest to put up bonds before holding controversial protests was declared unconstitutional decades ago by federal courts.

  Now I DON'T want to infer in any way that I support this A Hole, but Dearborn made a mistake here.

Especially considering the Bill of Rights is to protect you from the government.

Marty

[Michael K (Az.)]

First They came... - Pastor Martin Niemoller

First they came for the communists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist.

Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Jew.

Then they came for me
and there was no one left to speak out for me.

The constitution was put in place to protect the people from the
government not the other way around.

[alph]

yeah, and the kkk should have had the right to march down skokie illinois's main street back in the mid 70's!!

it's one thing to piss people off, it's another to call it your god given right to do it.  it's just like that pain in the ass person that knows what your buttons are, and enjoys pushing it.  (that's a sick perosn.)

[Highbinder]

"If we don't believe in freedom of expression for
people we despise, we don't believe in it at all."
-- Noam Chomsky

[Chrisj CMA]

"If we don't believe in freedom of expression for
people we despise, we don't believe in it at all."
-- Noam Chomsky

Exactly why the creeps from the Westboro church won their case.  They have to right to say the disgusting things they say.  The misguided pastor from FL has the right too.  Unless its in MI where (in places) muslims have taken over pretty much everything.....then no one but pro muslims have any rights.  If allowed, muslims will do this in other places over time.  Its basically their "charter"  Its what they do.  Dont believe me ask the people of the UK or Europe.

[Bonzo]

Just a question, not so much to "stir the pot", maybe to extend a Constitutional discussion. If the terry guy has the right to burn holy books no matter what the consequences, or the flour sack wearing bigots can march down Main Street  and the Kansas wackos can protest at Soldiers Funerals, do the Muslims have the right to build a Mosque four block from the WTC site? 

[Chrisj CMA]

Just a question, not so much to "stir the pot", maybe to extend a Constitutional discussion. If the terry guy has the right to burn holy books no matter what the consequences, or the flour sack wearing bigots can march down Main Street  and the Kansas wackos can protest at Soldiers Funerals, do the Muslims have the right to build a Mosque four block from the WTC site? 

I think ultimately the answer should be yes.  But there are/were complicated political and international issues here.  Big questions on "who" was/is actually building it.  Im a firm believer these rights we are talking about (especially ones that take on a kind of radical form) should be reserved for AMERICANS not foregin investers trying to make a political statement

[Bonzo]

Just a question, not so much to "stir the pot", maybe to extend a Constitutional discussion. If the terry guy has the right to burn holy books no matter what the consequences, or the flour sack wearing bigots can march down Main Street  and the Kansas wackos can protest at Soldiers Funerals, do the Muslims have the right to build a Mosque four block from the WTC site? 

I think ultimately the answer should be yes.  But there are/were complicated political and international issues here.  Big questions on "who" was/is actually building it.  Im a firm believer these rights we are talking about (especially ones that take on a kind of radical form) should be reserved for AMERICANS not foregin investers trying to make a political statement

Well said and I do agree.

[Willow]

..., do the Muslims have the right to build a Mosque four block from the WTC site? 

lol!  Maybe a better question would be do the Muslims have a right to burn a Christian Bible or Jewish Talmud four blocks from the WTC site or, since the original question involved speaking, do they have the right to speak four blocks from the WTC site?    

[3fan4life]

people don't die all over the world when a bible is burnt.i don't give a crap about the rags but he's was warned and should get his a$$ kicked. 20+ people died last time.

That way of thinking is EXACTLY what the muslim world counts on.

[Bobbo]

I am a christian and I believe in the Ten Commandments. But I am also an American the believes in our Constitution and the Bill of Rights.

I may not agree with everthing Pastor Jones preaches,...but what has happened to "freedom of speech".
Why is OK for muslims to destroy Bibles, but it not right to burn the Quran?

Is this what our founding fathers wanted?

Mr. Jones was briefly jailed for not getting a $1 bond for a protest.  The ACLU is on your side in this matter.

What does this have to do with destroying books?  He was not stopped or prosecuted for this event.  He is just another loony religious nutcase inciting other loony religious nutcases.  These kooks have been tormenting each other for a couple thousand years.  Nothing new.   

[Bobbo]

people don't die all over the world when a bible is burnt.i don't give a crap about the rags but he's was warned and should get his a$$ kicked. 20+ people died last time.

I don't know about threats over Bible burning, but there was a lot of threatened violence over flag burning a few years ago.

Anyone who has an irrational extreme attachment to a symbol (flag, Bible, Quran etc.)  usually violates the principles of that very symbol when they resort to violence to "protect" it.

[Bobbo]

The government is predisposed to pander to the Muslims right now.  It started to get bad in the last administration when we were at war with terror but not with Muslims.  The problem is Muslims are at war with us and we are too policially correct to even say we recognize it.  I know...I know... peaceful people them muslims are all full of love love love....yeah right until they get enough of them in one place and then things change.  If even muslims say its not a religion, then why do they have the right to demand the things sharia law provides here in America.  Its time to just say NO!  DONT LIKE IT........THERES THE DOOR

Maybe the same way Christians "demand" that they get Christmas day as a national holiday.  The way Christians "demand" that "under God" be inserted into the Pledge of Allegiance.  The way Christians "demand" that our national motto be changed from "E Pluribus Unum" to "In God we Trust".  The way Christians "demand" that blue laws are passed to prevent sales of some items on Sunday.   Etc.

[Chrisj CMA]

The government is predisposed to pander to the Muslims right now.  It started to get bad in the last administration when we were at war with terror but not with Muslims.  The problem is Muslims are at war with us and we are too policially correct to even say we recognize it.  I know...I know... peaceful people them muslims are all full of love love love....yeah right until they get enough of them in one place and then things change.  If even muslims say its not a religion, then why do they have the right to demand the things sharia law provides here in America.  Its time to just say NO!  DONT LIKE IT........THERES THE DOOR

Maybe the same way Christians "demand" that they get Christmas day as a national holiday.  The way Christians "demand" that "under God" be inserted into the Pledge of Allegiance.  The way Christians "demand" that our national motto be changed from "E Pluribus Unum" to "In God we Trust".  The way Christians "demand" that blue laws are passed to prevent sales of some items on Sunday.   Etc.

Well, for one thing.......I wasnt there when any of the "so called" demands you refer to were made but I think it was all legal, but even if it was Christians demanding them (as you say).  At least they were "demanding" things that supported the moral and legal character of this country.  Sharia violates many of the moral standards we live by.  Hands down without a moment deliberation EVERY request/demand for Sharia law should be shut down.  Again, dont like it, go somewhere that lets you practice monstricities.

[MAD6Gun]

 Weather you like it or not this country was founded on Christian values.  Bobbo if you dont believe that than TUFF. I dont care.
 With that said. I dont agree with what this so called pastor Jones in FL is doing. No more than the wackos from Westburo.  There is no reason for it than to send a hatred message and to insite the radical Muslems. BUT it is there right to do so under the Constitution. I feel if they can burn the bible then we should be able to burn the Quran without the fear of death from the radical Muslems. If we held the same beliefs as the Muslems we would have blown the Westburo chuch to hell a long time ago. But we understand it is their right to do so. Its OK for the Muslems to use this countries freedoms for there own gain but use it against them and they get violent.

[Bobbo]

Well, for one thing.......I wasnt there when any of the "so called" demands you refer to were made but I think it was all legal, but even if it was Christians demanding them (as you say).  At least they were "demanding" things that supported the moral and legal character of this country.  Sharia violates many of the moral standards we live by.  Hands down without a moment deliberation EVERY request/demand for Sharia law should be shut down.  Again, dont like it, go somewhere that lets you practice monstricities.

The support for those things was simply because the political powers of the times were vastly in the hands of Christians, so other opinions and views were quickly squashed.  Times change, and political powers change.  My reference to those laws shows how the government is flexible in accommodating religious people, with the blue laws as an exception.  To limit free enterprise in an attempt to appease religious people, and probably to goad them into going to church, is wrong, in my opinion.

[hubcapsc]

Here in South Carolina we enforce Blue Laws to appease the voters who want Blue Laws in their counties, and we abolish Blue
Laws to appease the voters who don't want Blue Laws in their counties. Christians, BTW, don't need to be "goaded" into going to Church.

-Mike

[Bobbo]

Weather you like it or not this country was founded on Christian values.  Bobbo if you dont believe that than TUFF. I dont care.

What Christian values are you referring to?  Freedom and pursuit of happiness? Those values and goals predate Christianity, are are a part of every society, although usually suppressed by oppressive governments, quite often religiously based.

Does our Constitution reflect Christianity?  Nope, quite the opposite.  It restricts government intervention into religious matters, and vice-versa.  Christian values don't include worshiping other gods or idols as far as I know...

Do those Christian values include slavery, and denial of rights to women?  That was prevalent in our founding on "Christian" values.

You and others can repeat this flawed belief, but history will prove you wrong.

[Bobbo]

Here in South Carolina we enforce Blue Laws to appease the voters who want Blue Laws in their counties, and we abolish Blue
Laws to appease the voters who don't want Blue Laws in their counties. Christians, BTW, don't need to be "goaded" into going to Church.

-Mike

People who don't want to shop on Sunday, should do just that...  Don't shop on Sunday.  Let the business owner decide on how and when to run his business.  Blue laws are simply the outcrop of "busy bodies" who want to control others, just like their religious beliefs control them.

The current trend is county or statewide "smoking bans", which restrict business owners similarly.  I don't smoke, but consider these intrusive laws the same as the blue laws.  By allowing a direct vote on these matters, we circumvent the representative republic form of government we are based on.  Mob rule will always oppress the minority, and is not good government.

[hubcapsc]

Some people would hate it in South Carolina 

-Mike

[BradValk48237]

Terry Jones does have the right to say what he wishes... in public.

The problem however is that the "public" land in front of the mosque was a narrow strip of land on a busy street. The reason he was asked to not speak there was the possibility of a large crowd blocking the street and unsafe conditions in the place he wanted to demonstrate. the city basically said that it would be dangerous and could cause a riot. He was told he could speak, publicly,  at the court house, but he said, no, I will do it where I please. He was jailed because he wold not sign a peace bond saying he would not demonstrate illegally. He also did not want to comply with city permit ordinances that would deny ANYONE to demonstrate in that same place. The city of Dearborn said he could demonstrate at the court house legally, just like anyone else..

 I am in Dearborn at least once a month... As the mayor pointed out- there are at least 3 strip clubs and a pork plant near the mosque- which if there was Sharia Law- would not be allowed. There are parts of Detroit, and other major cities that like news shots from Iraq- Dearborn looks a lot better than many of midwest and southern cities I have been in... it does NOT look like a muslim run area..... Matter of fact, it is considered a party area with plenty of Bars and alcohol (Also not allowed by Sharia Law) Been on a few Party Buses to the area....

The city has spent over $49 grand protecting this person and his rights so far. He wants to protest- He should get the bill for all of it....

Terry Jones is a F'kin D$%k... he has a small actual following and gets a huge boner in front of the camera. If there were no cameras- no Terry Jones... His church is no longer completely Tax exempt and is under investigation at this point...... Not the Pastor I'd want at my church.... He has no mission in life other than to be a wanna-be hate monger. If yer gonna be a good hate monger-  be a a man and burn a Mosque and prove what you are- don't be a Pu**y and beat up a book......( JOKE!)

But , just like the Westborough Church,  he has a right to be a D#$k and if the people pay attention to it,  then its an issue-

BUT- He is an American, and Americans should be law abiding..... No matter what he wants to say- he still has to abide by the legal statues and laws in the state he is in..... And I sorry to say , so far there is not a law against being a bigoted, F#$kin' A$$ H@)*.... Pretty bad where an idiot like him is allowed to have a firearm that he "accidentally" discharges through the FLOOR of his rental car!!!!

Tired of this issue making MY State and Area look like we are a Muslim Stronghold and not ruled by the U.S. and State Constitution...... I am GLAD that the city stood up to him and made him do what ANY citizen of this State and Country should do.


Whew... I feel better... think I'll go for a ride.. Oh wait- Its rainin'... must be the Muslims........Id better burn a Qur'an to warm up..

B