Dark side tire opinions

[bigfeet]

To whom ever has the honest answer to this Q.  Is a car tire safe ? and do they offer any other sizes that would help with the high rpm of your typical valk that really needs a 6th gear? And also. would your typical bike shop put it on the rim ( safety issue? )  How much air pressure to run ? ???

[Kaiser]

Bigfeet,

I see this is your first post.  On this page, you will see towards the top left a tab that says "Home".  Click on that.

Next, on the top right you will see a "Search" box.  In that box, type "car tire" or "dark side" and then press the Enter key.

If you are a fast reader, you should finish reading all the posts about car tires (a.k.a. "dark side") in about three months.  Every possible question, concern, view point, and issue has already been hashed out regarding the use of car tires on the Valk.

Welcome to the insanity (that is this community)!  Post something about yourself in a new thread (which Valk you've got, where you are located, etc.) so that you can get a proper welcome.

[Moonshot_1]

To whom ever has the honest answer to this Q.  Is a car tire safe ? and do they offer any other sizes that would help with the high rpm of your typical valk that really needs a 6th gear? And also. would your typical bike shop put it on the rim ( safety issue? )  How much air pressure to run ? ???

Is a car tire safe?
Yes. Got over 14k on my Triple tred. Went through most of the twisties in the Black Hills with it with my wife on board. No issues what so ever.
There is a slight learning curve at first as you get used to the difference in handling. Some folks just don't like it. Many do.

Sizes of tire...
With enough money and imagination I suppose you could fit about anything on the back. But in practical terms, the 205/55/16, 205/60/16 (my size), and the 205/65/16 are the typical car tire sizes being used. Help with the RPMs are negligible.

Would a typical bike shop put it on the rim?
Typically, probably not. Independent bike shops are the best bet unless you do it yourself.

Air pressure?
Start at 40 psi and increase or decrease till feels comfortable for you..

[fudgie]

Is a car tire safe ?
 Feels safe for me. Feels alot more stable then a MC tire. Some stuff I do aint safe but I do it anyway. 

do they offer any other sizes that would help with the high rpm of your typical valk that really needs a 6th gear?
 Yes, but depends on what tire you want. Mine was only had in 1 size.

would your typical bike shop put it on the rim ( safety issue? )
 I got to a independent HD mechanic. He ran CT on his HD in the 70's.

How much air pressure to run ?
 Depends on the tire. I run 38 psi and started out at 32 psi. Tire is rated to 44 psi and I have run 50 psi in it for 300 miles. SOB flew! It was a nice ride. 

[alph]

okay, lets not get off point!! 

the question was, does anyone have an opinion of THIS particular car tire!!!!  NOT, is it dangerous, how much air pressure, who's going to mount it, blah, blah, blah......

i'm looking at a CT that "looks" like a cycle tire, or preforms most like a cycle tire.  not, "is it safe", hell, i can get killed taking a good healthy crap for all it's worth, but will that car tire look decent on my cycle when i go?!?!

[Moonshot_1]

okay, lets not get off point!! 

the question was, does anyone have an opinion of THIS particular car tire!!!!  NOT, is it dangerous, how much air pressure, who's going to mount it, blah, blah, blah......

i'm looking at a CT that "looks" like a cycle tire, or preforms most like a cycle tire.  not, "is it safe", hell, i can get killed taking a good healthy crap for all it's worth, but will that car tire look decent on my cycle when i go?!?!

The tire will look AWESOME on your cycle but will like make your butt look fat before you get killed taking a good healthy crap. Which does beg the question is a healthy crap, in fact, healthy, if it kills you.

[fudgie]

If you bear down to much you'll prabally vagal down and wake up on the floor with your pants around your ankles. You should take stool softners. 


Tire looks good, almost like a Hankook K-106 knock off. Give it a try. 

[BF]

hell, i can get killed taking a good healthy crap for all it's worth,...........

Like this?...........

[toetruck21]

hell, i can get killed taking a good healthy crap for all it's worth,...........

Like this?...........

HA HA hahahahahahaha!  Thats funny!  But now back to the tire discussion before this does happen to Alph!  LOL

[alph]

hell, i can get killed taking a good healthy crap for all it's worth,...........

Like this?...........

HA HA hahahahahahaha!  Thats funny!  But now back to the tire discussion before this does happen to Alph!  LOL

HEY!!   HOW DID YOU KNOW I WAS BALD!!  but, did you notice, i made it into the can!!

[MarkT]

OK, first, sorry bout this original post being hijacked into a referendum on "darkside - good or bad".  Not what the OP put up.  But the new guy asked the questions, so the thread is now hijacked.  Since only  darkside disciples responded, so am I, to provide some balance for Bigfeet.

Shees.  Once again, NOBODY has provided a balanced report on what to expect.  It's all "best thing since sliced bread."  Its NOT "all good, no bad."  There are SOME advantages to a car tire.  And there are MORE disadvantages.  Read this.  http://www.horseapple.com/Valkyrie/Tech_Tips/The_Darkside_-_Yea_or_Nay/the_darkside_-_yea_or_nay.html

[Tundra]

OK, first, sorry bout this original post being hijacked into a referendum on "darkside - good or bad".  Not what the OP put up.  But the new guy asked the questions, so the thread is now hijacked.  Since only  darkside disciples responded, so am I, to provide some balance for Bigfeet.

Shees.  Once again, NOBODY has provided a balanced report on what to expect.  It's all "best thing since sliced bread."  Its NOT "all good, no bad."  There are SOME advantages to a car tire.  And there are MORE disadvantages.  Read this.  http://www.horseapple.com/Valkyrie/Tech_Tips/The_Darkside_-_Yea_or_Nay/the_darkside_-_yea_or_nay.html

Great Reporting

[RDKLL]

OK, first, sorry bout this original post being hijacked into a referendum on "darkside - good or bad".  Not what the OP put up.  But the new guy asked the questions, so the thread is now hijacked.  Since only  darkside disciples responded, so am I, to provide some balance for Bigfeet.

Shees.  Once again, NOBODY has provided a balanced report on what to expect.  It's all "best thing since sliced bread."  Its NOT "all good, no bad."  There are SOME advantages to a car tire.  And there are MORE disadvantages.  Read this.  http://www.horseapple.com/Valkyrie/Tech_Tips/The_Darkside_-_Yea_or_Nay/the_darkside_-_yea_or_nay.html

Great Reporting

Mark...thanks for the best and most even handed report on the car tire....I had seriously considered doing it when the time came.....I will be putting a motorcycle tire back on both Valkyries....

[Choirboy]

I have the GY TT on my 98 std. Yep it takes a little more pressure to turn it, but unless you are a 98 lb weakling not all that much....Tire has 20K miles on it and still has substantial tread, rides nice and is really stable at speed and in the rain. Twisty's well no problem, ya just have to ride it carefully. Anyone who says they dont ride a mc tire without care is just not telling the truth. Yes its all about preference. Can you blast it thru turns, probably not a good idea, but then again you prolly wouldnt be riding a Valk if all you wanted was twisties.....My thinking is try it if you don't like it, take it off. Every high mileage valk Ive seen has a CT on it, the trailer queens, not. Back in the day, lots of car tires were used as MC tires weren't as available.

[bigfeet]

Thanks mark. that was most informative and i'm just a tad bit starter ,  ( I tHINK ??? )And to those who are wanting to know ( 98 valk tourer, Lucedale ms )

[MarkT]

I have the GY TT on my 98 std. Yep it takes a little more pressure to turn it, but unless you are a 98 lb weakling not all that much....

WRONG, Bud.  About 20 lbs of constant countersteer pressure on my black standard.  It's not a question of weakness.  I daresay I could benchpress YOU.  This is BAD HANDLING.

Every high mileage valk Ive seen has a CT on it, the trailer queens, not.

Wrong, Bud.  There are PLENTY - if not most - high mileage, experienced riders who will not ride with a car tire.  Of course, me included.  And yes, I tried it.  Not depending on heresay.  There are very few reasons to destroy the good handling of the Valkyrie with a car tire.  Save money?  Not good enough reason.  I pay at most $200 for a back tire (Cobra 200) which is lasting 12k miles.  What's a GY TT now - say $70?  That would be a good price I think.  How long do you run it?  Not til it's bald.  If you want the traction benefit, you will change it for sure by 30k.  How much do you ride?  if you do 12k a year on one bike ( I have three ), or even spread among several bikes, you ride a lot.  Not a trailer queen.  You are still only wearing out the rubber of 1 back tire per year, vs. 1 per 2½ yrs.  $200 vs $28, or $172 more.  You can't afford $172 / yr to preserve good handling?  I can.  The only other reason - better grip in back.  Doesn't matter much with braking because of the weight transfer to the front.  Accelerating - the bike tire is fine with me.  I don't need to take off so fast as to lay down rubber.  Riding in the rain?  I avoid that anyway.  And slow down if the rain catches me.  Against those CT advantages, is high countersteer pressure, bump steer, unstable turns, follows road anomolies - everything, the danger of looking away from the road as the line changes without warning.  And the fact you have added bad handling to your bike - now what if someone cuts you off and your bike wants to turn already because you're on a rut?

I see you're in Texas.  Not surprised.  Lotsa flat & slab.  Handling needed?  Not so much.

Have a nut Bud.  Put that tire on your bike and kill yourself with the bad handling.  Just don't take out someone else while you're at it.

[Ricky-D]

As deeply held are views regarding car tires on the Valkyrie I find the exaggerations stupid, but equally offensive is the blatant Koreshian style self promotion!

***

[SANDMAN5]

This is BAD HANDLING.

No it's not. It's handling that you don't like. I have close
to 40,000 Darkside miles. No bad handling for me.

[bigfeet]

well riding a valk is all new to me. its the biggest honda ive road yet. but i learned on big bikes.

[SANDMAN5]

well riding a valk is all new to me. its the biggest honda ive road yet. but i learned on big bikes.

Most people will tell you (including me) that you're probably better off to
go thru a set of mc tires first....kinda get the hang of how a Valk feels.
Then when it's time for a new back tire make the decision about trying
the Darkside. Whatever tire you try, start with 38 lbs or so (some might
say different) ride for a while and go up or down 2 lbs at a time. I run 38
in my GYTT...one or two up. I've tried from 32-44...38 fits me fine!

[X Ring]

Thanks mark. that was most informative and i'm just a tad bit starter ,  ( I tHINK ??? )And to those who are wanting to know ( 98 valk tourer, Lucedale ms )

Now there's 2, count 'em 2 dragon riders in George County, MS   

Marty

[X Ring]

well riding a valk is all new to me. its the biggest honda ive road yet. but i learned on big bikes.

If you decide you want to try it, let me know and I'll let you ride Sandman.

Marty

[MarkT]

This is BAD HANDLING.

No it's not. It's handling that you don't like. I have close
to 40,000 Darkside miles. No bad handling for me.

OK Bob.  Whatever.  I don't know jack.  With only a quarter million miles of experience on several heavy cruisers, most in Colorado, much of it twisties.  I bow to your 50k miles on a Valk, almost all on a CAR TIRE.  Surely you are the expert arbiter of handling.  Since you aren't aware of bad handling on your bike, PLEASE don't kill anybody with it.  Or yourself.

[SANDMAN5]

OK Bob.  Whatever.  I don't know jack.

If you'll read my post you'll find that I didn't say that. But I'll be
glad to agree with it if it'll make you feel better.

With only a quarter million miles of experience on several heavy cruisers

You don't want to play the numbers game. I have roughly 80,000 miles....so you
have about 3 times that. How many Darkside miles do you have? Let's say
less than 1,500. So, using the same math I have at least 25 times more
experience than you with the Darkside. 

The rest of your post I'll ignore since it's just your pitiful (and childish)
attempt at sarcasm. The staff has better things to do than police this
board, so do them a favor and drop it.

[MarkT]

I have roughly 80,000 miles....so you
have about 3 times that. How many Darkside miles do you have? Let's say
less than 1,500. So, using the same math I have at least 25 times more
experience than you with the Darkside. 

Yeah bob. I have far fewer miles than you on that mistake of a tire.  Didn't take me long to see the bad handling is not only unwelcome but dangerous.  And with all your experience, the degraded handling has missed your notice as you deny it exists.  Not very aware, are you?  You're not doing new riders any favors by lying about the handling of a car tire.  Denial is not just a river in Egypt.  Sad.  Tell you what bob.  You can get the last word on this, as I'm done with your posts.

[Kaiser]

[2qmedic]

Hmmmm...ya made me think,
A Goldwing handles better than a Valk,
A Goldwing has intergrated braking of which is not on a Valk, ???
A Goldwing has Antilocking Brakes and a Valk does not,
A Goldwing can have an airbag of which is not on a Valk,
A Goldwing has a Satellite-Linked Navigation System for trips, a Valk does not.
I'm sure there are other safety related benifits of the Goldwing.

So based on the above information...
our Valkyries are just not up to par when it comes to handling or safety.
This being said, we should all sell our Valks and buy Goldwings.

Nah,
I love my Valk,
I know how it rides (with MC or CT) as I have it set up,
my Valk is for me...  

[2qmedic]

According to the Hurt report (and other reports),
The single biggest contributing factor of the motorcyclist in an accident is-
the under use of the front brake and locking up the reat tire in the accident advoince manuvers.

A car tire on the rear will:
-stop a motorcycle in a shorter distance than the MC tire,
  (simple physics of friction from increased surface area),
-considerably reduce the chance of a rear wheel skid,
-increase considerably the traction on a wet road,
  (sometimes we just have to ride in these situations).
The weight transfer does not take enough weight off the rear to provide it ineffective (MC tire or CT). If a person does not use both brakes to the fullest and practice this way, then he is under the false illusion on the total braking power and it's safety issue.
The above being said, the CT is actually safer than the MC tire.
Every one does not ride to the limits and need the handling of a race ready motorcycle with tires...

[MarkT]

And a Goldwing has better weather protection,
and a Goldwing gets better mileage than a Valk,
and a Goldwing has higher top end than a Valk,
But a Goldwing is a PITA to work on,
and a Valk attracts pretty girls
while a Goldwing attracts old men.

I have both.  The wing is a grocery getter, and generally used when you would otherwise use a car.  It's also a better platform for touring (luggage capacity, electronic cruise, weather protection, range, far better lighting, more electrical capacity for stuff like heated gear) though as it comes, whether you can get comfortable on it depends on your size and the comfort accessories you add.  It needs air management, highway pegs or the like, a drinkholder.  The wing is buffeted a lot in crosswinds - much more so than the Valk.

The Valk is for stylin.  

BTW they are saying on the news - look for $6/gal gas this summer.  I'm thinking
I'll be glad I can use the Wing for errands this summer instead of the Exploder.

Good points on your second post - braking benefits are there.  Safer?  Only in braking.  Definitely not safer in handling issues. As I've said before - depends on your circumstances, if a car tire is appropriate for you.  All I'm saying here is - let's be honest about it, and not mislead the uninformed.  Give it the full report.

[Daniel Meyer]

I see you're in Texas.  Not surprised.  Lotsa flat & slab.  Handling needed?  Not so much.

No comment on the rest of the post, but on this statement, you know not of what you speak. 

[GJS]

Wow! What a thread.

Here are my two cents.
Iv'e got 100k+ on MC tires, about 15k+ on the Goodyear TT currently on my Valk. Last year my wife and I did a two up ride from Victoria BC through Utah and back. I loved the CT for the ride and braking. I especially like the braking! It also looks very cool in line-up of bikes, kinda sticks out.

However, after a long trip we have planned for June, I'll be going to a Cobra or Metzler MC on the rear. I just don't like the little surprises I keep experiencing with the CT. I live in an area with many road imperfections, and the CT ALWAYS likes to see where they lead. As well I have a very long and very steep driveway (350' of gravel at 19.5 percent grade). Going up the driveway, the bike wants to wander in and out of every imperfection there is, although going down I can actually slow the bike down using the back brake where with a MC tire, the bikes slides in the gravel more easily.

In summary, I love the braking capability and the high speed cruising ride of the CT. But, I'm not liking the sudden tracking changes that can occur. I have a second set of rims, so I may just keep a CT around for the long haul cruises, I like the look of the tire your considering.
For my local terrain, lots of less than perfect pavement, twists and gravel, I feel safer with neutrality of a MC tire.

Good luck, be safe.

Glenn

[SANDMAN5]

Yeah bob. I have far fewer miles than you on that mistake of a tire.  Didn't take me long to see the bad handling is not only unwelcome but dangerous.  And with all your experience, the degraded handling has missed your notice as you deny it exists.  Not very aware, are you?  You're not doing new riders any favors by lying about the handling of a car tire.  Denial is not just a river in Egypt.  Sad.  Tell you what bob.  You can get the last word on this, as I'm done with your posts.

Ok, thanks. So here is the last word(s)....unless you're lying. We've never met and probably never will, but you seem to be the type of person that can't stand it when you are either proven wrong or someone disagrees with you. IF the Darkside is as dangerous as you claim, why hasn't EVERY Darksider here figured that out? If you'll have someone read posts to you from the archives, you'll find that MOST Darksiders will agree that handling is better in some situations, worse in others, and almost identical in the rest. It's been said time and time again...it's not better or worse handling, it's just different. The biggest difference here is if someone wants to know if the Darkside is right for them, most of us will tell them they have to decide for themselves. You, on the other hand, want to jump in front of them and wave a red flag and yell  "It won't work for you." The smart people will make their own decision or forever wonder.

[Choirboy]

Hmmmm flat and straight in Texas....didnt know I was restricted to Texas, someone should have told me......As I looked back thru the thread, noone said MC tires didnt turn better than a CT, but lots said that a CT can actually turn. My personal experience is that it takes a little more effort but not 20lbs, could it be that was an overstatement? You ride what you want, nuff said. Lots of experienced riders using a CT and Ive ridden mine C2C.....as far as giving "new riders" bad info, a new rider doesn't belong on a Valkyrie period. As far as your opinion, it's welcome and valued, just dont get your undies twisted when someone has a different opinion. As far as suggesting that I go kill myself riding a car tire, thats pretty juvenile......and in poor taste......looks like I wont be ordering any of your products anytime soon. As far as experience goes, I'll take Daniel Meyers over yours anyday, he isnt selling anything.

[Mildew]

It is very difficult to ride a bike with a m/c tire after riding with the c/t for so long. For me anyhow M/c tires are still in the 70's when it comes to engineering, so I've read

[Dirty Dave]

If I want GPS, an air bag, anti-lock linked brakes, luggage capacity and weather protection I'll take the car. I love my naked Valk. It's a motorcycle. I want it simple with the wind in my, err, scalp.

[DFragn]

Alph, I suspect that Eagle F1 may be a summer tire. Since your in WI [I'm in Northern Illinois] I would recommend an All Season for year round traction due to temps. Additionally, your likely to get more mileage out of an All Season tire. Summer performance rubber is softer, or something along those lines, and wear more quickly.

As to MarkT's report well OK that's his take, as well as others. His report structure & verbage for his opinion is his and did seem to have an agenda. It's hard for either side to hide an agenda.

Air pressure is the key. Car tires are designed to carry weight loads of 1.5 - 2 tons or more between 4 of them.
If you or anyone decides to experiment with a CT you've got to find your own operable pressure. Some ride with 24-25psi. Others, IMO over inflate a CT at 40-45psi and that in my opinion is way too much which will also round out the tread some which will get them closer to an MC tire profile putting less of the tread to the pavement. That's OK for them. I prefer not to wear out the CT center that way.
Of course underinflating at 24-25psi is likely to wear the outside tread areas, although it will soften the side walls and permit the tire to "move" more on the rim thus translating less to the riders control.

I prefer 30-32psi.

And disagree with MarkT's 20lbs. of force to keep her healed over. I've dragged pegs at 90 mph and can say it doesn't feel much more than 8-10 lbs., a tad less at lower speeds. But we are all of different physiques.

Something I don't like, but don't mind is the CT will want to drift the bike to the low side of the road camber. And the countersteer involved isn't much effort nor bothersome. Although when riding in a group of MC tires I appear to be leaning a degree or two towards the high side.

The only serious issue I have had was through road construction with temp cold patch and heavy irregularities and an unfinished 2" concrete lip at the curb at 5 mph in heavy traffic and a thunderstorm. I got hit by at least a 40 mph wind gust and that combined with the surface took me towards the curb lip and beyond that a 2' drop. Yeah, I 'bout stained my shorts, but I controlled it and didn't move me much more then a foot. MC tires would have been affect too. I estimate around 20% less under those circumstances.

I must add. I tried KingBee's CT way back, before he went back to an MCT. I CB'd him to give me my bike back..."Get me off this damn thing".

Later I decided to experiment myself and have about 15k [90k total] on it now. Will I go back to an MC maybe, but if I do it's also possible I would go back to a CT before or when the MCT wears out.

BTW I'm also currently running a Bias rear mounted in reverse up front. I'll push the bike around and have yet to experience anything negative with this combination.

I'm not trying to convince you of anything. Everyone should follow their own path.

[MarkT]

looks like I wont be ordering any of your products anytime soon.  

So Choirboy wants to go off topic and punish me by not buying my stuff.  Really mature.  Maybe you'd like to say something bad about my family, too. 

Don't concern yourself with punishing me for not agreeing with your tire agenda by not buying my products. 
Demand for my premium exhausts exceeds supply.  Which indicates we should increase price.  Instead we screen the orders for acceptance, and decline some.  Buyer's attitude is considered in the mix.  I don't need to hassle with unreasonable demands when I have an abundance of reasonable customers I can serve instead.  I really enjoy producing a great product with pride attached to the workmanship, and the resulting happy customers.  Accepting a job when the buyer begins with a negative agenda - not so much.  Go ahead and order elsewhere, Choirboy.  Though you won't find most of my options, and my pipes are rarely sold used.  

[Mildew]

BTW I'm also currently running a Bias rear mounted in reverse up front. I'll push the bike around and have yet to experience anything negative with this combination.

Me too. 500 miles a week back and forth to work at 80+ mph. Great wear

[Daniel Meyer]

As far as experience goes, I'll take Daniel Meyers over yours anyday, he isnt selling anything.

Actually I am...I'm selling books...

This isn't some kind of contest folks. We all have our experiences, and all our opinions are valid...they just come from different places. This is a discussion forum where we should be able to discuss our opinions rationally.

We may not convince anybody of anything...but we should be able to discuss.

Rack it down a notch or two guys...it's just tires...ya know...round and rubber and DOT certified for highway use. The high emotion isn't warranted here.

[Ricky-D]

My feeling about car tires on the rear is positive but I want to point out how bad the handling is with a worn front tire, whether or not a car tire is on the rear.

A new front tire makes the bike feel (handle) like a light weight street bike regardless of what's on the rear.

Another point I would like to make is the load carrying ability of the car tires. The car tires are upwards of 50% more load carrying ability of a motorcycle tire.

Final point is that a car tire on the rear will still wear out the center portion of the tread regardless of the tire pressure you run. That is, I guess, as long as you are not running it flat!

I wonder how many riders run their motorcycle tires past the wear marks since I notice the marks sometimes are starting to show wear while there is still quite a bit of tread left on the center line.

***