Verizon is not pro 2A.

[fudgie]

Was looking at one of my gun boards and found out a customer was asked to leave cause they dont allow firearms.  He then emailed corp and found out its their policy. I was going to switch to Verizon from ATT. I will stay with ATT, which I have been with since 1995. Never a problem with me carring in there. Guess they are added to my list, which seems to get bigger..... 

date Mon, May 2, 2011 at 4:07 PM
subject RE: Other (WFM75427955)
mailed-by hq.verizonwireless.com


Thank you for contacting Verizon Wireless regarding our firearm policy. I am sorry for the inconvenience this has caused. My name is Marsha, and I am happy to recap our conversation regarding Verizon Wireless corporate policy. It is our policy to not allow firearms in any of our Retail outlets. Verizon Wireless reserves the right to refuse access to customers if they bear arms in the store.

Please note, that this not intended on an infringement of personal rights, we want to protect our property and employees from any and all threats. Should you need anything further, please feel free to contact us. Thanks again for choosing Verizon Wireless and being the BEST part of the network.



Thank you,

Marsha Vigil
Verizon Wireless- Customer Service
Internet Response Team

[Bobbo]

I don't use Verizon, but this has the usual marks of an email smear campaign.  Can you provide a company website link to their policy that covers firearms?  I found one that shows they don't accept advertisements from firearm and ammunition manufacturers along with a list of other industries, but none on carrying one in their stores.

In MO, store owners can place a "No firearms allowed" sign in a conspicuous place, but there is no criminal violation for ignoring the sign      Besides, how would a Verizon employee know if someone is carrying concealed in their store?   ???

[Gear Jammer]

I agree in principle Fudgie.  No firearms, then none of my $ for their business.  In Texas, they have the right to post a "no guns" sign, but that sign MUST be a certain size, with specific wording and displayed prominently at entrance.  Otherwise, they can put up any and all signs they want, and they have no valldity.  They can request you leave the store if they do ascertain you're carrying, and may seek trespassing charges against you if you refuse.  Though most LEO's    in Texas would not likely make an enforcement issue of this. Texas legislature just passed the employee parking lot rule here, allowing firearms to be kept in locked vehicles on property at work, despite any employer rules to the contrary. A win for 2nd Amendment rights. 

[ArmyValker]

I don't use Verizon, but this has the usual marks of an email smear campaign.  Can you provide a company website link to their policy that covers firearms?  I found one that shows they don't accept advertisements from firearm and ammunition manufacturers along with a list of other industries, but none on carrying one in their stores.

In MO, store owners can place a "No firearms allowed" sign in a conspicuous place, but there is no criminal violation for ignoring the sign      Besides, how would a Verizon employee know if someone is carrying concealed in their store?   ???

Isn't there a difference (penalty-wise) between privately owned businesses and public places? Not really as up on MO CCW as I should be.

I wouldn't doubt that Verizon's policy is exactly as stated. It's their decision, as is ours to choose a provider we feel comfortable with.  If it where me, I'd just CC anyway, because, like Bobbo said... It's concealed.

[fudgie]

I cannot provide link to VW website, but can post more email replies from them! Might even find the long form. 

They are not banning the way you carry, its that you carry.

[fudgie]

I don't use Verizon, but this has the usual marks of an email smear campaign.  Can you provide a company website link to their policy that covers firearms?  I found one that shows they don't accept advertisements from firearm and ammunition manufacturers along with a list of other industries, but none on carrying one in their stores.

In MO, store owners can place a "No firearms allowed" sign in a conspicuous place, but there is no criminal violation for ignoring the sign      Besides, how would a Verizon employee know if someone is carrying concealed in their store?   ???

Isn't there a difference (penalty-wise) between privately owned businesses and public places? Not really as up on MO CCW as I should be.

I wouldn't doubt that Verizon's policy is exactly as stated. It's their decision, as is ours to choose a provider we feel comfortable with.  If it where me, I'd just CC anyway, because, like Bobbo said... It's concealed.

Dont think the penalty is different. If State law says you can carry and the bussiness says no, you might just get criminal tresspass.

Like I stated above, the mode of carry is not in question, its that you carried. Like most, I assume, I carry where its not allowed- by bussiness or Law. LEO have no responsability to protect me, I do.

[fudgie]

I agree in principle Fudgie.  No firearms, then none of my $ for their business.  In Texas, they have the right to post a "no guns" sign, but that sign MUST be a certain size, with specific wording and displayed prominently at entrance.  Otherwise, they can put up any and all signs they want, and they have no valldity.  They can request you leave the store if they do ascertain you're carrying, and may seek trespassing charges against you if you refuse.  Though most LEO's    in Texas would not likely make an enforcement issue of this. Texas legislature just passed the employee parking lot rule here, allowing firearms to be kept in locked vehicles on property at work, despite any employer rules to the contrary. A win for 2nd Amendment rights. 

Yep, principles. I also dont go where motorcycles attire is not allowed.

Ind passed the parking lot rule last July. They just passed the amendment to the other day. Trying to make heads and tails out of it but so far it looks really good. Hope Mitch Daniels runs for Prez. 

[Bobbo]

Isn't there a difference (penalty-wise) between privately owned businesses and public places? Not really as up on MO CCW as I should be.

Not according to statute:

http://www.moga.mo.gov/statutes/C500-599/5710000107.HTM

From paragraph 2:

2. Carrying of a concealed firearm in a location specified in subdivisions (1) to (17) of subsection 1 of this section by any individual who holds a concealed carry endorsement issued pursuant to sections 571.101 to 571.121 shall not be a criminal act but may subject the person to denial to the premises or removal from the premises.

[Hook#3287]

Another reason I’m glad to say I’m “Verizon-Free” and have been so for over 10 years.  I’ve hated that corporation since the old days when they had a monopoly on phone service and the Yellow Pages.   Remember when the Yellow Pages were the Bible for services needed?  I owned a service company and it was Verizon’s way or forget it.

[FryeVRCCDS0067]

I agree in principle Fudgie.  No firearms, then none of my $ for their business.  In Texas, they have the right to post a "no guns" sign, but that sign MUST be a certain size, with specific wording and displayed prominently at entrance.  Otherwise, they can put up any and all signs they want, and they have no valldity.  They can request you leave the store if they do ascertain you're carrying, and may seek trespassing charges against you if you refuse.  Though most LEO's    in Texas would not likely make an enforcement issue of this. Texas legislature just passed the employee parking lot rule here, allowing firearms to be kept in locked vehicles on property at work, despite any employer rules to the contrary. A win for 2nd Amendment rights.  

Yep, principles. I also dont go where motorcycles attire is not allowed.

Ind passed the parking lot rule last July. They just passed the amendment to the other day. Trying to make heads and tails out of it but so far it looks really good. Hope Mitch Daniels runs for Prez.  

I appreciate the heads up. I'm an AT&T customer and will remain that way now. I've got a little more info about changes to Indiana law. After we passed the employee parking lot bill our local Clay County government decreed that any of their employees that were going to carry in their cars had to register the guns they would carry with the county. They had to show their CC permit to them and tell them what part of the vehicle their firearm would be in. Obviously the requirement to show your permit left out long gun owners without permits from even being able to have a gun in their vehicle.

I sent a link to the newspaper article which reported these rules to the NRA-ILA asking them to look into it. Probably other people did too. The new amendment to our parking lot law bans employers from asking if you have a firearm and pretty much all the other crap my county was doing. The governor has already signed this.

We are waiting on him to sign a separate bill which bans local governments from enforcing firearms laws which are different/stricter than out state laws. I hope the anti-freedom zealots in our local government choke on it. Although I'm pretty sure Mitch Daniels will sign this one too it wouldn't hurt to send him an "E" mail or call and thank him for signing the other one and ask him to please sign this one too. The local governments are putting a lot of pressure on him to not sign it I imagine.

[solo1]

Gun question aside, although it is an important one, I quit Verizon months ago.  They screwed up my billing and were sending me overdue bills even though I had the cancelled checks. I went to direct withdrawel and they screwed that up too.   I COULD NOT straighten it out, even with the BBB's help!  If you ever have a billing problem with them, you'll be screwed!!!

Sure enough, Consumer Reports says that their services are good but their billing department is very bad..

However, Verizon was very smart to sell their internet and landline services to Frontier in Indiana, Oregon, and Washington.  Now Frontier is part of the overall cluster ----, you fill in the blank...!!!!!

[fudgie]

I agree in principle Fudgie.  No firearms, then none of my $ for their business.  In Texas, they have the right to post a "no guns" sign, but that sign MUST be a certain size, with specific wording and displayed prominently at entrance.  Otherwise, they can put up any and all signs they want, and they have no valldity.  They can request you leave the store if they do ascertain you're carrying, and may seek trespassing charges against you if you refuse.  Though most LEO's    in Texas would not likely make an enforcement issue of this. Texas legislature just passed the employee parking lot rule here, allowing firearms to be kept in locked vehicles on property at work, despite any employer rules to the contrary. A win for 2nd Amendment rights.  

Yep, principles. I also dont go where motorcycles attire is not allowed.

Ind passed the parking lot rule last July. They just passed the amendment to the other day. Trying to make heads and tails out of it but so far it looks really good. Hope Mitch Daniels runs for Prez.  

I appreciate the heads up. I'm an AT&T customer and will remain that way now. I've got a little more info about changes to Indiana law. After we passed the employee parking lot bill our local Clay County government decreed that any of their employees that were going to carry in their cars had to register the guns they would carry with the county. They had to show their CC permit to them and tell them what part of the vehicle their firearm would be in. Obviously the requirement to show your permit left out long gun owners without permits from even being able to have a gun in their vehicle.

I sent a link to the newspaper article which reported these rules to the NRA-ILA asking them to look into it. Probably other people did too. The new amendment to our parking lot law bans employers from asking if you have a firearm and pretty much all the other crap my county was doing. The governor has already signed this.

We are waiting on him to sign a separate bill which bans local governments from enforcing firearms laws which are different/stricter than out state laws. I hope the anti-freedom zealots in our local government choke on it. Although I'm pretty sure Mitch Daniels will sign this one too it wouldn't hurt to send him an "E" mail or call and thank him for signing the other one and ask him to please sign this one too. The local governments are putting a lot of pressure on him to not sign it I imagine.

We were talking about that the other day at work. We were wondering where and how this came about for the bill to be drafted. Now I know!

[Brewmaster]

Now there's a policy I respect. I will be switching from AT&T to Verizon as soon as my contract is up. In three months or so.

it's something they believe in and they are willing to stand up for that. How can you not respect their ability to enforce their rights?

Go Verizon!!!

Thanks for that,

Brewmaster

[Psychotic Bovine]

Now there's a policy I respect. I will be switching from AT&T to Verizon as soon as my contract is up. In three months or so.

it's something they believe in and they are willing to stand up for that. How can you not respect their ability to enforce their rights?

Go Verizon!!!

Thanks for that,

Brewmaster

No, sorry, they didn't "stand up" for anything.  They "sold out" to the politically correct crowd who see all guns as evil.  If I am in their store, more than likely my Glock or Kimber will be on my hip, under my coat (or long shirt).  What they don't know, they can't enforce.  And it's my right. 

[Brad]

I was out today and just for grins stopped by the Verizon store.  No sign posted here in Reno so carrying in the store here is ok.  By law legal unless posted otherwise.

[elraque]

(Sarcasm font ON) The ONE thing we have to make sure we do is to disarm the law-abiding victims... (Sarcasm font OFF)

I agree. If I'm carrying a CONCEALED weapon, the only time anyone would find out about it would be just before they thanked me for saving their life. Which probably means just about never. Unless, of course, someone else with nefarious intentions were to carry (probably illegally) within that same establishment and make their weapon evident by using it improperly and illegally...

Under normal circumstances I could carry for decades and NO ONE would know. As it should be.

[97ValkSteve]

(Sarcasm font ON) The ONE thing we have to make sure we do is to disarm the law-abiding victims... (Sarcasm font OFF)

I agree. If I'm carrying a CONCEALED weapon, the only time anyone would find out about it would be just before they thanked me for saving their life. Which probably means just about never. Unless, of course, someone else with nefarious intentions were to carry (probably illegally) within that same establishment and make their weapon evident by using it improperly and illegally...

Under normal circumstances I could carry for decades and NO ONE would know. As it should be.

I know..... I can't figure out still how someone at Verizon or anywhere else knows you're carrying a concealed weapon unless it wasn't concealed after all.  Mine is always very concealed and I ignore signs like that and only obey the obvious Govt. buildings, churches and the like. 

On a side note, I've been very happy with Verizon here in Jawjuh for many years after Sprint and Cingular. 

[MAD6Gun]

 I have had a cel phone with Verizon since 89 or so. They have been good to me.  With that said. I agree with what my brother Bovine said. What they dont know wont hurt them. If you abide by the rules of your CC permit. They would never know you had one on you.

 Years ago I saw a "no firearms allowed" sign at Lowes. I didnt care. If I had had a gun on me at the time I would not have hesitated to go in.

 Brian if you did some research you would find there are a lot of companies out there that are antigun...

[fudgie]

If you abide by the rules of your CC permit. They would never know you had one on you.

  Brian if you did some research you would find there are a lot of companies out there that are antigun...

Yep, there are a few on my list I dont go to anymore because of it. Same for for places that do not accept MC attire or my VRCC 'colors'. Even places I really really like I dont go to anymore. 

Our LTCH/ State of Ind dont specify our method of carry. 

[fudgie]

Now there's a policy I respect. I will be switching from AT&T to Verizon as soon as my contract is up. In three months or so.
it's something they believe in and they are willing to stand up for that. How can you not respect their ability to enforce their rights?
Go Verizon!!!

Thanks for that,

Brewmaster

Which do you perfer, a policy or your constitutional rights?  ???

[elraque]

Those who would give up their freedom in exchange for security deserve neither (paraphrased from Ben Franklin, I think). Charlton Heston followed up by saying "and they usually wind up losing both within just a short time).

The second amendment protects all the others...

[Bobbo]

A few months after CCW was allowed in Missouri, many businesses started putting up "No firearms allowed" signs in their front windows and doors.  Shortly thereafter, an initiative was started to make a list of all businesses with those signs, as an alert to anyone interested.  A sign up sheet was included to make your presence known to these businesses.  After a few hundred signatures, a printout of those signatures along with a letter stating we will no longer patronize them was sent to each business with the sign.  A few more months, and there were over a thousand signatures.  After about a year, I noticed many had taken down the signs.

I think many business owners naively thought customers would be comforted by the no firearms policy, but quickly learned it had the opposite effect!   

[Bama Red]

I use Verizon and will continue to do so due to lack of reliable service in my area by any other carrier. I was just in one of their corporate stores yesterday, upgrading my internet to a wireless Wi/Fi hotspot and there were no signs regarding CCW anywhere on the premises. I was carrying at the time and would not have removed my weapon just so's I could enter their store. As has been said, how will they know (unless someone is carrying openly).

Screw 'em!

[Varmintmist]

Now there's a policy I respect. I will be switching from AT&T to Verizon as soon as my contract is up. In three months or so.

it's something they believe in and they are willing to stand up for that. How can you not respect their ability to enforce their rights?

Go Verizon!!!

Thanks for that,

Brewmaster

No, sorry, they didn't "stand up" for anything.  They "sold out" to the politically correct crowd who see all guns as evil.  If I am in their store, more than likely my Glock or Kimber will be on my hip, under my coat (or long shirt).  What they don't know, they can't enforce.  And it's my right. 

Yeah, they did. They are standing up for their private property rights. You have no right to carry on anyones private property period.
Its real simple;
Your rights stop where mine begin.

I, as a landowner (or renter) am the absolute last authority on what goes on on my property. Private property rights are as important or more so than the right to carry. Think about it, if you cant be secure on your property, then anyone can tell you what you can and cannot have on your own property, including firearms.

Now, is their choice hypocritical? Yep. Is it made out of ignorance and a false sense of security? Yep. It IS their choice and RIGHT to make that choice. It is your choice to vote with your feet.

Before you jump off the train, make sure it isn't going over a bridge. On a quick search, it seems that this isn't the case in TX and I have never seen a sign in PA. PA has had concealed carry for longer than most states so I am pretty sure this would have cropped up somewhere. It may be a local thing for you or a regional decision, but it isn't nationwide.
Write you own letter before you condemn a company. The interwebs are full of a lot of BS about stuff like this.

[Bob E.]

Yeah, they did. They are standing up for their private property rights. You have no right to carry on anyones private property period.
Its real simple;
Your rights stop where mine begin.

I, as a landowner (or renter) am the absolute last authority on what goes on on my property. Private property rights are as important or more so than the right to carry. Think about it, if you cant be secure on your property, then anyone can tell you what you can and cannot have on your own property, including firearms.

Now, is their choice hypocritical? Yep. Is it made out of ignorance and a false sense of security? Yep. It IS their choice and RIGHT to make that choice. It is your choice to vote with your feet.

Before you jump off the train, make sure it isn't going over a bridge. On a quick search, it seems that this isn't the case in TX and I have never seen a sign in PA. PA has had concealed carry for longer than most states so I am pretty sure this would have cropped up somewhere. It may be a local thing for you or a regional decision, but it isn't nationwide.
Write you own letter before you condemn a company. The interwebs are full of a lot of BS about stuff like this.

I would generally agree with you in the case of "private" property.  However, the difference may be about business/commercial property which is open to the public.  Owners rights are different in this case.  Back in the 60's there was alot of this arguement going around in the case of civil rights/discrimination debates.  The question of whether a business owner has the right to discriminate against certain groups of customers.  And we know how the courts have ruled in that matter.  On the other hand, this is similar to the "No Shirt, No Shoes, No Service" signs posted in alot of places too.  So who knows??

[Jabba]

I agree with the assertion that the business owner SHOULD have the right to ban firearms from their establishments.  I also agree with walking.

I was in a diner the other day and the Owner was open carrying while cooking and serving food.  Then I noticed a table full of plain clothes LEO's in there.  Then I started wondering about the over/under for how many handguns were in the room.  Many people would have been all nervous... but it made me feel all warm and fuzzy.  I was sort of embarrassed that I was not, at that moment, packing.
 

Jabba

[Sludge]

Yeah, they did. They are standing up for their private property rights. You have no right to carry on anyones private property period.
Its real simple;
Your rights stop where mine begin.

I, as a landowner (or renter) am the absolute last authority on what goes on on my property. Private property rights are as important or more so than the right to carry. Think about it, if you cant be secure on your property, then anyone can tell you what you can and cannot have on your own property, including firearms.

Now, is their choice hypocritical? Yep. Is it made out of ignorance and a false sense of security? Yep. It IS their choice and RIGHT to make that choice. It is your choice to vote with your feet.

While I am a gun guy of the first order, I completely agree with your thoughts Varmintmist.

[czuch]

GREAT!!  Now this too. Good guy gun free zone.
I have verizon and cant stand it. The phone service is great but the billing, as as stated before
reeks. My bill has never been the same twice. There seems to always to be something to get them to wiggle me for more money. I'll do the research for another carrier in October.
I dont carry very often, but iffn its concealed, you'll never know.

[Full_Throttle]

Hmmm...Here in Illinois I have NEVER seen a business post a sign saying guns aren't allowed....oh wait........

....
....
....
....

It is the people's republic of Illinois after all  It is against the law to cary a firearm in Illinois.

I am jealous of the rest of the country...I can't even buy a LEAD BALL for my muzzleloader here in illinois without a firearm owners ID card (FOID card)....a stinkin lead ball...no gunpowder, no "bullet" , just a lead ball......

[elraque]

Hmmm...Here in Illinois I have NEVER seen a business post a sign saying guns aren't allowed....oh wait........

....
....
....
....

It is the people's republic of Illinois after all  It is against the law to cary a firearm in Illinois.

I am jealous of the rest of the country...I can't even buy a LEAD BALL for my muzzleloader here in illinois without a firearm owners ID card (FOID card)....a stinkin lead ball...no gunpowder, no "bullet" , just a lead ball......

[Sarcasm font ON] If only the supreme court were to rule on a case related to the second amendment -- especially one in Illinois... If only the supreme court were to affirm that the second amendment guaranntees the right of an INDIVIDUAL to "keep and bear arms..." (kinda like it's written in that "living breating document")... Oh, yeah. Nevermind. [Sarcasm font OFF]

If only the state of Illinois were to legislate and enforce in compliance with the second amendment and the related supreme court rulings... especially the recent ones. Then we might have a chance of returning to the nation our forefathers founded.

I agree about the private property owners' right to exclude firearms from private property. (YOUR property line is a boundary where your rights meet mine.) I also agree that it is the customers' right to vote with their feet and their wallet. And I stand by my statement that anyone should, in most circumstances, be able to carry a concealed weapon for decades (or for a lifetime) without anyone knowing except themself.