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Rio Wil
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« on: June 09, 2011, 12:53:16 PM » |
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Hi All......there have been a number of ujoint failures reported on this board. My question is, have ANY of the failures been because of lack of lubricant in the caps/roller bearings. Lack of lubricant would be typically seen as "red rust", same as in the final drive splines. How about a survey, was your failure due to "red rust" or something else? Failures usually result in some level of vibration, upon investigation, what did you find?
Name RED RUST Other(ear failure, etc)
Rio Wil NO
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Rio Wil
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« Reply #2 on: June 09, 2011, 05:16:17 PM » |
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What I am curious about is , are the failures due lubrication issues (ie, need for a grease nipple) or stretching of the yoke ears that allow the caps to begin to wiggle and hose the bearings. If it is yoke ear enlargement then removing any material from the ears seems counterproductive even though a larger cap has greater support around its circumference. I saw a yoke yesterday that had a replaceable joint that does not enlarge the ear hole and still provides greater support than the oem cap/ear contact. So, back to the question, is it a lube issue or is it stretching of the metal ear allowing the cap to wiggle and induce the "vibration" failure. Replacing a ujoint for "just cause" is not of any interest......  |
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WynneBear
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« Reply #3 on: June 09, 2011, 05:59:13 PM » |
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Rio, The stock ujoint that is inside the stock yolks does not get supported by all of the ears you speak of. At best it is supported by half of these ears. The rest of the ujoint is not supported by anything. Refernce your pictures posted in my earlier post. The rest of the ear is wasted with the wonderful stakes that honda uses, that make it impossible to service the ujoint only. If there are any that failed the way you referenced I am sure a Bigger Stronger Ujoint supported completely and entirely by ears would have had a better chance of not failing. This a classic example of which came first the chicken or the egg. Or in our case was it dry, did it stretch, did the needle bearings wiggle, did the cross of the yolk break, or was it just too small and designed to fail by the people who sell you a whole other unserviceable unit. In reality none of us can be completely sure. I think the twist of the right hand and the level of testosterone probably contribute to more failures that we give credit to. Truth be told I am sure honda never envisioned these bikes would get ridden the way some of us have. What we do know is the stock ujoint can fail. If you are comfortable with a stock one, I commend you for being loyal to Honda.
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Rio Wil
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« Reply #4 on: June 09, 2011, 06:57:59 PM » |
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Rio, The stock ujoint that is inside the stock yolks does not get supported by all of the ears you speak of. At best it is supported by half of these ears. The rest of the ujoint is not supported by anything. Refernce your pictures posted in my earlier post. The rest of the ear is wasted with the wonderful stakes that honda uses, that make it impossible to service the ujoint only.
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The beauty of this ujoint is the stakes were removed and the new caps occupied the entire height of the bore. This adds an additional 1/8 inch (appx) of support to the caps. The fact some of the area is void (due to the stakes being removed) is not as materially significant as removing appx .200 in. (a guess....too lazy to go measure it) of good supportive metal.
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dalai-lama
Member
Posts: 402
Wish I was out riding...
Watertown CT
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« Reply #5 on: June 09, 2011, 07:47:54 PM » |
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Hi All......there have been a number of ujoint failures reported on this board. My question is, have ANY of the failures been because of lack of lubricant in the caps/roller bearings. Lack of lubricant would be typically seen as "red rust", same as in the final drive splines. How about a survey, was your failure due to "red rust" or something else? Failures usually result in some level of vibration, upon investigation, what did you find?
Name RED RUST Other(ear failure, etc)
Rio Wil NO
Mine went around 47K and it was not rust, it just failed. I nursed it home before it completely broke. It would flex in one direction but not the other. This one has 69K on it now and no problems. So one u-joint, 116K miles total. I don't think that is too bad. the dalai |
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the dalai
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Ricky-D
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« Reply #6 on: June 10, 2011, 09:17:49 AM » |
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I feel that a lot of failure of the u-joint can be attributed to not supporting the wheel assembly when changing a tire.
If the swing arm is left to it's own devices it will fall down and the u-joint will be the reason for it to stop it's (the swingarm) movement.
Pretty hard to get water intrusion if the swingarm boot is in good condition and installed correctly. (cause of red rust)
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2000_Valkyrie_Interstate
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Rio Wil
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« Reply #7 on: June 10, 2011, 10:02:14 AM » |
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My take on the red rust phenomena is a loss of lubricant that allows the moisture in the air to condense on the unlubed parts as a result of heating/cooling cycles and not a result of water intrusion. We have seen several (including mine) drive shaft/drive pinions cups full of red rust and I doubt there was any water intrusion there....just a lack of lube. I think the same is true of the final drive splines, lube loss, heating/cooling cycles results in moisture condensation and rust. Obviously if water from rain/driving thru rivers enters these parts then nature will take its course. Maybe a more direct question would simply be: has anyone EVER seen a ujoint with rust(to indicate a lack of lube) or have all failures been due to ear enlargement and the cups/bearings become loose causing vibration/clunking and are replaced. Just looking for more specifics than it exploded or totally failed........were any parts discolored from heating, were parts fractured, were caps split, any rust evident, roller bearings ground up. The first or second time I replaced my rear tire, I did start the engine with the intention of seeing if the tire was balanced (the shocks were not installed--not a good idea.. ) and upon slowly releasing the clutch had a awful clunking as the ujoint flopped around. That ujoint did last to 100K miles, but who knows, maybe that was a 200K ujoint and I took some life out of it with my  |
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keepinon
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« Reply #8 on: June 10, 2011, 06:45:15 PM » |
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I've only had the Valk' for a little over a year. Last service a couple of weeks ago, the joint felt fine.
I did, however, have a 98 'Wing develop a vibration that I finally traced to the u-joint. It was simply worn, in one cup. You know how the needle bearings will carve out their own little grooves in the cap... was the way this one felt. No sign of rust, it did not break, replaced in time.
Not a bad record, I've had three 'wings & the Valk, just the one u-joint failure. (But I do have a spare, LOL )
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1998 GL1500 CT Trike
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