Marvel Mystery .. non Valk related.. Help

[dubsider]

I added 1.5 ozs of MMO to my Honda Sabre to 4.13 gallons of gas (full tank).  After about 15 miles i notices a clicking.. likely valves.. after 22 miles as I rounded the corner into my sub-division, she died and would not start.. black smoke coming from the pipes.. This weekend I will pull and drain the tank.. Any ideas ??  I was getting ready to pass the Sabre to my son so I'd really like to get her in shape.  Why did I add the MMO you ask?  Dang, I thought is would do what it said.

[Fudd]

You must have had some pre-existing condition going on for you to be adding it in the first place. 

I have used MMO on lots of occasions mixed in the oil to free up flat hydraulic lifters, or in motors that have been sitting up for a long time.  Usually have had good results.

I doubt at the concentration you used it, the MMO caused a problem.

Do you have good oil pressure?  And is the choke stuck "on" making a rich condition and black smoke?  Air filter clogged?

[dubsider]

You must have had some pre-existing condition going on for you to be adding it in the first place. 

I have used MMO on lots of occasions mixed in the oil to free up flat hydraulic lifters, or in motors that have been sitting up for a long time.  Usually have had good results.

I doubt at the concentration you used it, the MMO caused a problem.

Do you have good oil pressure?  And is the choke stuck "on" making a rich condition and black smoke?  Air filter clogged?

Unfortunately,, no pre-existing condition. Just an engine with 60K miles.. I pulled a plug and it is very sooty. 

[Patrick]

Did you just dump the MMO into the tank or was it mixed well with the fuel ?? Actually regardless, I don't think the MMO would cause any problems since it was such a small amount.. I'm thinking that something else happened..

[Warlock]

I added 1.5 ozs of MMO to my Honda Sabre to 4.13 gallons of gas (full tank).  After about 15 miles i notices a clicking.. likely valves.. after 22 miles as I rounded the corner into my sub-division, she died and would not start.. black smoke coming from the pipes.. This weekend I will pull and drain the tank.. Any ideas ??  I was getting ready to pass the Sabre to my son so I'd really like to get her in shape.  Why did I add the MMO you ask?  Dang, I thought is would do what it said.

I use to add it to my v twins to break the carbon loose on top of the pistons. What you added should not have hurt anything. It could have broke a lot of carbon loose in the engine.
David

[dubsider]

I added 1.5 ozs of MMO to my Honda Sabre to 4.13 gallons of gas (full tank).  After about 15 miles i notices a clicking.. likely valves.. after 22 miles as I rounded the corner into my sub-division, she died and would not start.. black smoke coming from the pipes.. This weekend I will pull and drain the tank.. Any ideas ??  I was getting ready to pass the Sabre to my son so I'd really like to get her in shape.  Why did I add the MMO you ask?  Dang, I thought is would do what it said.

I use to add it to my v twins to break the carbon loose on top of the pistons. What you added should not have hurt anything. It could have broke a lot of carbon loose in the engine.
David

It musta broke a lot loose.  Plugs very sooty.. when I tried to fire her up back smoke out the pipes and it seem to pushing a lot of air; it would fire then choke out.

[bill v e]

i believe you could add 1.5 oz of almost anything liquid to 528 oz of gas plus what was already in there and not come up w what you described - definitely need to check for something else.

[GOOSE]

dubsider......i very much doubt the mmo had anything to do with your problem.  i put 2-3 ozs. in my tank every other fill-up, and have been doing this for the last 60,000 miles.  i have two valks, and i use the mmo in both of them.

[dubsider]

This bike has never missed a beat.. never needs a choke to fire right up.. I rode to work this morning.. 30 miles. couple of miles around town for lunch. 10 miles to the gas station... added the MMO and 2 gallons of NON-ethanol gas (my favorite station) to fill'r up... then BANG. as I described.. in the first post.  a lot of soot on the plugs and soot in the pipes... tries to fire up then seems to choke out.  What is up with that.. 60K miles trouble free.

[9Ball]

only thing I can recommend is to drain/siphon the old gas and refill with fresh gas, put new plugs in, and try again...

[Ferris Leets]

Possibly bad gas.  I also have used MMO for years and never seen any problem.  Another possible is that it really did its job and loosened up a whole bunch of prexisting carbon.

[Cyclejohn]

Hey Dubsider. What you've got on your Sabre is a classic case of fouled spark plugs. The Sabre engine being dual plug-single fire doesn't like to be ridden chug-a-lug style around town (or anywhere else for that matter) whenever an additive such as MMO, Seafoam, Techron, etc. is put in the gas tank (causes a sooty condition in the cylinders and on the spark plugs). When the plug on one side of the cylinder fouls the other plug will not fire correctly either. Your bike is fine you just need to either pull all of your plugs and clean them or put new ones in (at $2.50 each not a bad idea) and go ride the bike "hard" to burn off the sooty condition inside of the combustion chambers. One additive that does an excellent job in the Sabre is Lucas Fuel Conditioner. It will do just as well, actually better, and not cause the sooty problem in the cylinder even riding around town.

[Gryphon Rider]

My '80 or '81 Suzuki GS850 had similar symptoms.  I rode it to work (15-20 miles highway), and after work was pulling out onto the highway and it started to make a loose valve noise. 1 or 2 miles later the engine quit.  I don't remember if it made a noise when it quit, but I pulled over and it wouldn't turn over.   After I got it home I pulled the plugs and found one piston had a hole in the top of it.  I never got around to fixing it and eventually sold it as a parts bike.

[Fudd]

Well Dubsider,

I've been waiting to hear, did it run after you cleaned or replaced the plugs?

[fast black]

I have been using mmo in my bike, and autos for years.  Never a problem. Mmo didn't cause the problem in your bike.

[dubsider]

Well Dubsider,

I've been waiting to hear, did it run after you cleaned or replaced the plugs?

I have not had a chance to work on it.. I hope to this weekend.  The plan is to drain the tank and bowls, clean the plugs.. and add some fresh gas. I hope that is all it takes.

[dubsider]

only thing I can recommend is to drain/siphon the old gas and refill with fresh gas, put new plugs in, and try again...

exactly the plan.  I also checked my pit boss (trusted mech that works on my cars  ).. he said the mixture possibly raised the octane to a point that it changed the burn rate.. fouling the plugs that further effected the burn..

[Chrisj CMA]

only thing I can recommend is to drain/siphon the old gas and refill with fresh gas, put new plugs in, and try again...

exactly the plan.  I also checked my pit boss (trusted mech that works on my cars  ).. he said the mixture possibly raised the octane to a point that it changed the burn rate.. fouling the plugs that further effected the burn..

Im buying stock in MM Oil.  If 1.5oz can raise the octain so much the engine cant handle it, that is some mighty powerful stuff.  I used to use that oil in my CB 175 that was supposed to run on leaded gas.  It was to keep the top end lubed (supposedly) I never saw or felt a difference, and I used over 1.5 oz per tank.  I think you have something else going on besides an octain boost

[dubsider]

only thing I can recommend is to drain/siphon the old gas and refill with fresh gas, put new plugs in, and try again...

exactly the plan.  I also checked my pit boss (trusted mech that works on my cars  ).. he said the mixture possibly raised the octane to a point that it changed the burn rate.. fouling the plugs that further effected the burn..

Im buying stock in MM Oil.  If 1.5oz can raise the octain so much the engine cant handle it, that is some mighty powerful stuff.  I used to use that oil in my CB 175 that was supposed to run on leaded gas.  It was to keep the top end lubed (supposedly) I never saw or felt a difference, and I used over 1.5 oz per tank.  I think you have something else going on besides an octain boost

We shall see.. at the end of the day we will find out what went wrong in the 22 miles after the fill up.. but in the troubleshooting world, the first question is usually .. What just changed? There maybe a coincidental issue to the obvious change; I will have to dig into it. Once I reset it to the previous state hopefully I can get it to start. If not - more troubleshooting..

[Jess Tolbirt]

bad gas, stuck float,,

[dubsider]

thanks for all of the input and suggestions.. VRCC board is just awesome.. thanks.

UPDATE..
I drained the gas out of the tank using a vacuum pump doodad.  I think I got all of it. I did not pull the tank, just did not want to mess with the hoses.  Drained the carb bowls. The gas that came out was very dark, caramel color 

One point of note.. the 2 gallons in the tank before I added the MMO had Startron in it..  maybe they did not play well together.. maybe bad gas.
I cleaned the plugs .. 3 were very sooty and a couple had noticeable carbon deposits.. chukey.

I put a half gallon of fresh gas and fired her up... She ran very rough... for about 10 minutes then seemed to smooth out... held her at 3-4K for several minutes (in neutral).. then did some engine braking and then rolled on several times.. I think she may be good to go..  I will know for sure when I take her on the road.

[Ferris Leets]

How old was the gas in the  tank before you filled it?  From your description BAD gas, phase separated ethanol or just really old gas.

[dubsider]

How old was the gas in the  tank before you filled it?  From your description BAD gas, phase separated ethanol or just really old gas.

THe gas in the tank ~2 gallons was no more than a week or so old.. one point, it had Startron in it.. to that  I added the 1.5 ozs of the MMO and then 2 more gallons of ethanol free gas to fill the tank.