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Chrisj CMA
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« Reply #1 on: June 16, 2011, 06:41:33 PM » |
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now that would be good news  |
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fudgie
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Posts: 10613
Better to be judged by 12, then carried by 6.
Huntington Indiana
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« Reply #2 on: June 16, 2011, 06:43:35 PM » |
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Should be for all oil companies. How much is it a barrel now? Gallon price is $3.67 here.
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 Now you're in the world of the wolves... And we welcome all you sheep... VRCC-#7196 VRCCDS-#0175 DTR PGR |
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RoadKill
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« Reply #3 on: June 16, 2011, 07:12:27 PM » |
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The Ethanol subsidy must go,it is BAD accounting any way you lie about it,but it will impact the price of dino-oil (or what ever you want to call it) simply because of supply and demand. the difference is not worth 5 billion in taxes ! Ethanol is not cost effective yet and we have better things to spend tax dollars on like paying off Obama's [INSERT VULGAR WORDING HERE] spending !  I must add that it will become cost effective if this ass hat gets re-elected and all of you ethanol haters are just scared of anything different,must have flunked out of chemistry,didnt do your homework and need to get off the koolaid that the right wing is feeding you,so you can learn to fight the ignorance befor you become left wingers yourselves, and vote him back in because of you un willingness to learn! How is that for stirrin' the pot ?  |
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JimC
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« Reply #4 on: June 16, 2011, 08:26:44 PM » |
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There are other issues that the ethenal subsidies have unearthed.
Around here (Wisconsin) we are seeing the small dairy farmers close down their farms and or go bankrupt and a lot has to do with the subsidies.
The small dairy farmer had to increase their herds to make money
The small dairy farmer now had to buy some of the feed for their herds because their small acreage would not support the larger herd.
The ethanol subsidy raised the cost of grain to feed their herd because a good chunk of the grain was going into fuel and they could no longer make a profit.
I am sure it has been good for the large grain farmers, and the profiteers selling and buying commodities, but it certainly has not helped the average JOE (you and I) or the small dairy farmer. I for one would be happy to see it go away!
Jim
The
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Jim Callaghan SE Wisconsin
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Brad
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« Reply #5 on: June 16, 2011, 08:33:23 PM » |
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Can't get rid of it fast enough as far as I am concerned.
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F6Dave
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« Reply #6 on: June 16, 2011, 08:43:05 PM » |
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Here are some inconvenient facts about ethanol...
- 1.5 gallons of ethanol produce about the same amount of energy as 1 gallon of gasoline.
- Ethanol generates about the same amount of energy as is required to produce it.
- Government ethanol mandates have caused demand for corn to skyrocket. A bushel of corn cost less than $2 in 2000. Today the price is over $7. The high corn price has decreased acreage used for other crops such as wheat, cotton, barley, and oats, and their prices have increased as a result. This has a big impact on food prices.
- Even with the current high price of oil, it still costs more to produce ethanol. Government subsidies are the only thing keeping ethanol 'competitive', but we're all paying for those subsidies.
Not only does ethanol cost us all plenty, it also damages some engines. It's good to see that many politicians are finally seeing the light.
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¿spoom
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« Reply #7 on: June 16, 2011, 09:32:22 PM » |
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Funny how we don't need subsidies for $100 Nikes, big screen TVs, beer, etc. Oh yeah, folks WANT those things. You only need subsidies for things that don't work and/or aren't wanted.
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RoadKill
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« Reply #8 on: June 16, 2011, 10:42:55 PM » |
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Here are some inconvenient facts about ethanol...
- 1.5 gallons of ethanol produce about the same amount of energy as 1 gallon of gasoline.
- Ethanol generates about the same amount of energy as is required to produce it.
- Government ethanol mandates have caused demand for corn to skyrocket. A bushel of corn cost less than $2 in 2000. Today the price is over $7. The high corn price has decreased acreage used for other crops such as wheat, cotton, barley, and oats, and their prices have increased as a result. This has a big impact on food prices.
- Even with the current high price of oil, it still costs more to produce ethanol. Government subsidies are the only thing keeping ethanol 'competitive', but we're all paying for those subsidies.
Not only does ethanol cost us all plenty, it also damages some engines. It's good to see that many politicians are finally seeing the light.
It is not economical, but exactly how does it "damages some engines." ? ? ? It is a poor musician that blames his instrument. |
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« Last Edit: June 16, 2011, 10:44:53 PM by RoadKill »
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alph
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« Reply #9 on: June 17, 2011, 03:22:52 AM » |
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i haven't used ethanol in my cycle yet this year (or so i think). i've been paying more at the pump for it, and my mileage has stayed around 33 to 36 mpg. i just don't like the stuff.
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Promote world peace, ban all religion. Ride Safe, Ride Often!!  |
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F6Dave
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« Reply #10 on: June 17, 2011, 05:32:36 AM » |
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It is not economical, but exactly how does it "damages some engines." ? ? ? Ethanol attracts water. This can cause fuel system damage, especially in small engines in power equipment (mowers, etc.) that are stored for long periods of time. Many older vehicles of all types have components in the fuel system (like gaskets) that can be damaged by ethanol. Water in the fuel is even worse for 2 stroke engines as they use the fuel/oil mixture as a lubricant, and water doesn't help lubricate very well. Ethanol also can make the fuel/air ratio effectively leaner as it contains more oyxgen than gasoline. This is no problem in modern auto engines as their fuel systems compensate, but it can damage some older motors that run too lean (and therefore hotter) with the stuff. |
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RoadKill
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« Reply #11 on: June 17, 2011, 12:11:05 PM » |
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It is not economical, but exactly how does it "damages some engines." ? ? ? Ethanol attracts water. This can cause fuel system damage, especially in small engines in power equipment (mowers, etc.) that are stored for long periods of time. Many older vehicles of all types have components in the fuel system (like gaskets) that can be damaged by ethanol. Water in the fuel is even worse for 2 stroke engines as they use the fuel/oil mixture as a lubricant, and water doesn't help lubricate very well. Ethanol also can make the fuel/air ratio effectively leaner as it contains more oyxgen than gasoline. This is no problem in modern auto engines as their fuel systems compensate, but it can damage some older motors that run too lean (and therefore hotter) with the stuff. Your education on fuels must have been from BP/Exxon/Shell university. High mileage and driving in the rain are not good for equipment either. Ethanol mixes WELL with water and burns fine,the petroleum products mixed with it (government mandated to make it undrinkable) are what causes the problems. Lazy people (especially us Americans) dont like maintenance and want the best of both worlds with no effort or thought involved and expect the same Gov't that refuses to balance their check book,to hand it to you and save you money at the same time. NO WONDER IT WONT WORK! Show me an ethanol damaged gasket ! BULL$#!+ It just isnt cost effective and the rest is SPIN |
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Fatboyman05
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Posts: 152
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Palm Coast, Florida
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« Reply #12 on: June 17, 2011, 01:56:30 PM » |
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I wrote a paper on this last fall, some thought from my memory -
Henry ford built his first cars to run on ethanol which he thought would be the fuel of the future…
There are two kinds of ethanol at the pump, gasoline with a 10 percent blend of ethanol and E-85 fuel which is a blend of 85% ethanol and 15% gasoline. Newer cars marked flex fuel can run either fuel, but cars that are not labeled to run E-85 will have serious issues if they run anything more than 80% gasoline with 20% ethanol.
The Gov’t has talked about increasing the blend from 10% to 15% because even with all the fuel mandated to be sold with 10% ethanol (or pay for credits which is what most boat marina fuel suppliers do) they can’t sell enough ethanol to meet the mandated amount of fuel. The industry refers to this as the blend wall. The only way to keep meeting thee mandate of 36 Billion gallons a year is to get more ethanol out there.
The mandate and subsidy was a good thing in the beginning, and really helped to develop the industry cheaper than the Govt could have on their own and without the mandate and subsidy, private companies wouldn’t have invested in the technology which has come a long way. There is actually more promising technology in other crops including switch grass which takes less water, less fertilizer and produces more energy per acre than corn. Unfortunately corn is the standard the industry uses which has impacts on the price of corn. As the corn price goes up, and oil goes up so does fertilizers which depend heavily on natural gas.
Corn is in everything (or is in things that are needed for it) and the mandate pulls so much corn out of the supply for other things it affects those prices from chicken, to beef, pork and to all the crops that don’t get grown because of the rush to plant more corn. Our exports of corn have dropped substantially and the global shortage in corn has been blamed for food riots in many countries including Mexico, Haiti, Egypt and Asia.
Let’s also not forget the CAFÉ standards for fuel economy. The test uses a formula that gives an extreme credit for cars that can run on the E-85….. To encourage the car manufacturers to build e-85 capable cars (so more Americans could buy the e-85 fuel) this credit to the MGP numbers allowing manufacturers to convert a car model to run on E-85 while keeping the model in production a year more or longer which means a less fuel efficient car stays on the market. And the consumer bears the cost to convert the car….
Quoting myself
The encouragement comes in the form of a modified calculation on the fuel economy of the vehicle in question if it can run on E-85. The modified calculation actually assumes that half the time the vehicle is running E-85, and before it averages the two miles per gallon figures to arrive at a total, it multiplies the E-85 miles per gallon by seven. This has the effect of increasing the CAFÉ fuel miles per gallon based solely on the ability of the vehicle to run E-85. The savings to an auto manufacturer can be substantial while the costs of technology development and conversion get passed onto the consumer.
And what did I learn by the time I finished my paper: that the mandates and subsidies have increased the cost to consumers by 5 billion but only part of that comes from your taxes, the rest from the pump and all products that go into corn. During this same time the farm subsidies have gone down because the cost of corn is so high. The old Govt. farm subsidies has shifted from being paid directly from the Govt to being paid by everyone
And folks, that’s about as political as I like to get…..
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Hoser
Member
Posts: 5844
child of the sixties VRCC 17899
Auburn, Kansas
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« Reply #13 on: June 17, 2011, 04:22:07 PM » |
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I have no problem with E10 or unleaded gasoline, only difference I can think of performance wise is E10 has a higher octane rating, since my Valk is stock and does not need higher octane, it is my policy to buy which ever is lower priced at the pump. Any milage differences have gone unnoticed by me, I still refill at 150 miles or so. Let there be peace among us.  Hoser |
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« Last Edit: June 17, 2011, 04:24:14 PM by Hoser »
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I don't want a pickle, just wanna ride my motor sickle  [img width=300 height=233]http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/ |
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RoadKill
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« Reply #14 on: June 17, 2011, 08:59:38 PM » |
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F6Dave
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« Reply #15 on: June 17, 2011, 09:20:18 PM » |
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Show me an ethanol damaged gasket ! BULL$#!+
How about an ethanol damaged fuel rail? 2 years ago Toyota recalled 214,570 Lexus cars due to fuel system corrosion from ethanol. According the the NHTSA bulletin: 'Ethanol fuels with a low moisture content will corrode the internal surface of the fuel rails. As this condition progresses, the engine malfunction indicator light may illuminate. Over time, the corrosion may create a pinhole resulting in fuel leakage.' |
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RoadKill
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« Reply #16 on: June 17, 2011, 09:29:00 PM » |
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Show me an ethanol damaged gasket ! BULL$#!+
How about an ethanol damaged fuel rail? 2 years ago Toyota recalled 214,570 Lexus cars due to fuel system corrosion from ethanol. According the the NHTSA bulletin: 'Ethanol fuels with a low moisture content will corrode the internal surface of the fuel rails. As this condition progresses, the engine malfunction indicator light may illuminate. Over time, the corrosion may create a pinhole resulting in fuel leakage.' "Ethanol fuels with a low moisture content will corrode..... " I thought is was the water causing the problems? Now it's 'low moisture'? "Over time, the corrosion may create a pinhole resulting in fuel leakage.' DAMN,how much time? 100 Yrs? Pour E-85 in an empty aluminum soda can and get back to me in 10 yrs when you realize all it did was clean the pepsi residue out of it. SHOW ME AN ETHANOL DAMAGED GASKET ! Keep reading what the media puts out....Mr. google knows everything and doesnt lie 1/2 as much as other democrats I got some gas with 10% ethanol once and the front tire went flat...next time I filled up there the damn muffler fell off and the turn signal on the right front quit! SCREW ETHANOL! It kills tires mufflers and turn signals  |
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« Last Edit: June 17, 2011, 09:36:09 PM by RoadKill »
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Hoser
Member
Posts: 5844
child of the sixties VRCC 17899
Auburn, Kansas
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« Reply #17 on: June 18, 2011, 03:07:25 PM » |
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I don't want a pickle, just wanna ride my motor sickle [img width=300 height=233]http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/ |
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VMODON
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« Reply #18 on: June 18, 2011, 06:42:26 PM » |
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Well I hope your right. I've been unloading ethonal railcars for the last 22 years, and am sick of them. At 62 its getting hard to get the body folded up enought to get under then to hook hoses up. This is the first year we're blending all year long. normally stops in April and starts in Oct. So far no issues with vapor lock on the Valk, but it hasn't got hot yet, only 108 today when I left work...
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