Won't Start - Grind Sound From Fuse Box

[my12by60]

I have a 2000 Tourer with 20k miles.  We were out of town for two weeks.  The bike would not start when I went to the garage this am.  Headlight comes on but depressing the starter only produces a sound like clicking or grinding.  About three weeks ago, prior to going away for two weeks, I noticed that starts were beginning to drag a bit and were not as quick and crisp as they had been after I replaced the battery.  It was behaving almost as if the battery was failing, but I doubted that was the problem since I replaced the original Yuasa battery within another Yuasa within the past 12 months and the bike had been starting great since then.  I checked the battery this am with my digital multimeter and am getting a reading of 12.68, so the battery does not look like the source of the problem.   I read a bit here on the board and pulled the right side panel.  I disconnected the red wire harness that covers the 30 amp fuse and all looked fine to me.  No signs of corrosion or melting.  I opened the little black fuse box right next to the red harness and pulled all of those fuses and did not notice anything.  I tried to start again and noticed that the grinding/clicking sound seemed even louder with the fuse box lid open.  The clicking/grinding sound does seem to be coming from the fuse box, if that makes any sense.  As you can tell, I have no idea what I am talking about.  Looking for some ideas of what to try next to get back on the road.

[X Ring]

First check your battery connections.  Make sure they're clean.  Then charge your battery.  Our ignition systems require a lot of power to fire.  A lot more power than it takes to spin the starter.  One of the first symptoms of the battery going out is hard starting especially when it fires as you release the start button.

Marty

[Thunderbolt]

If the contacts inside the starter solenoid are burned and not making contact, you can start it by turning the key on and short across the two larger wires underneath that red rubber cover.  What the solenoid does when it is operating properly is to short the two wires from inside when you press the starter button.  You are just doing it manually.  You don't need to press the start button for either of these methods.
The other way to start it is to turn the key on and put the bike in second gear and push it down enough slope to pop the clutch out when you get it rolling.
Your solenoid/relay is probably going to need to be replaced.

[9Ball]

If the contacts inside the starter solenoid are burned and not making contact, you can start it by turning the key on and short across the two larger wires underneath that red rubber cover.  What the solenoid does when it is operating properly is to short the two wires from inside when you press the starter button.  You are just doing it manually.  You don't need to press the start button for either of these methods.
The other way to start it is to turn the key on and put the bike in second gear and push it down enough slope to pop the clutch out when you get it rolling.
Your solenoid/relay is probably going to need to be replaced.

CAUTION...make sure the bike is in neutral if you jumper as directed or the bike will lurch and probably fall over....or worse hurt someone

[Thunderbolt]

make sure the green neutral light is on when you turn the key on.

[my12by60]

If the contacts inside the starter solenoid are burned and not making contact, you can start it by turning the key on and short across the two larger wires underneath that red rubber cover.  What the solenoid does when it is operating properly is to short the two wires from inside when you press the starter button.  You are just doing it manually.  You don't need to press the start button for either of these methods.
The other way to start it is to turn the key on and put the bike in second gear and push it down enough slope to pop the clutch out when you get it rolling.
Your solenoid/relay is probably going to need to be replaced.

If I can start successfully by "shorting across" the solenoid, does that prove that the solenoid/relay was the source of my problem?  What do I do to "short across" the two largers?  Are the solenoid and relay two different parts that will need replacing? And I will make sure I am in neutral before I try anything. Thanks.

[csj]

I had the same thing happen to me this april. Took the lady
out of (6 month) storage, turned her over, clickety grind,
just like you're describing. Tracked it down to the starter
solenoid. It was clicking because there was not enough voltage
to turn her over. Jumped her from my not-running cage.
Got her to start, and ran down the road. Came back, turned
her off, grind again.
Went to a battery shop, got a new one, plugged her in.
She's been good ever since.
Only got a year from that dead battery.

[my12by60]

I have had the battery on the charger for about three hours now.  Once it is fully charged, I will give it another try.  Hard to believe that a new Yuasa might have only lasted less than one year.  The original Yuasa that came with the bike lasted 11 years.  When it did not start this am, I first went to clean the battery terminals.  They did not look dirty at all, but the negative cable was not as tight as it might have been.  Could that slightly loose negative cable have been preventing the battery from getting a full recharge from the alternator when I was riding?

[X Ring]

With your multimeter, hook it up to the battery, turn the key on and hit the starter button.  If the voltage nosedives, the battery can't carry a load and needs to be replaced.

Marty

[Thunderbolt]

that's the first thing to try.

[my12by60]

I will make sure to have my wife hold the multimeter on the battery when I do my first attempted start after a full charge is in the battery.

[9Ball]

regarding the new battery, these batteries are sometimes sensitive to being set up properly.  The acid needs to be added when it is within the recommended temperature range, the initial sitting period after adding the acid pack must be observed, and the charging rate has to be followed.  A poor setup will cause battery failure in short order, such as your one year old battery.

Last year I had a brand new one for a Raider that was defective and Yuasa sent a free replacement.

Good luck...

[RonW]

What do I do to "short across" the two largers?  Are the solenoid and relay two different parts that will need replacing?

A screwdriver. There'll be some arcing. All you're doing is manually connecting the starter motor directly to the battery, externally. The start button does this for you internally by energizing an electro-magnet inside the relay which closes the same contacts that you bridge with a screwdriver. "Solenoid" and "relay" are just different names for the same part. The way that I test my battery with a voltmeter, is that during the split second that you depress the start button....voltage should not drop below 9.5v, otherwise the battery's toast. This is where charging a defective battery overnight can throw you off. After charged, the battery might have enough juice to start the bike, but when you try to start your bike after stopping off at a grocery store, it won't. I guess to be on the safe side with a questionable battery, you can always try starting your bike twice in-a-row while you're still in the garage. Or don't shut off your engine until you return home. However, a really bad battery will shut off your engine when you're stopped at a traffic light when the alternator isn't producing as much voltage.

[my12by60]

Ok.  Battery was fully charged yesterday, but I got too busy with other stuff to mess with the bike.  She started right up today just like the battery was brand new.  Multi-meter dropped to the low 11s during the start.  I let her idle for a while and the meter was showing low 14s at idle.  I shut her off and restarted her immediately with no problem.  So the problem was clearly a low battery.  Now the question is how did the battery get so low.  The bike only sat for two weeks.  I am now back to thinking that the slightly loose negative battery cable was not allowing the battery to receive a full charge from the alternator while I was riding.  Any other ideas or other things I should check out?

[BradValk48237]

It could still be the battery being bad..... May take a charge and not hold it..... Ive had one do that.... would work a couple of starts and the not start the bike cold until I charged. new battery... problem gone......

[Thunderbolt]

helps the next question get answered correctly.  Take the battery to your local parts house, they will usually load test it for you if you don't have a way to test it yourself.

[Ricky-D]

Parts houses are poorly equipped to truly load test the battery. They mostly use a tester that measures other factors regarding the battery and then derive a pass fail point to which most all but the worst batteries will pass. A true load test on a motorcycle batteries actually will harm the battery.

Seeing that the battery performed well after a charge up I would suggest doing no more at this time regarding the battery.

The "run down" of the battery is a little worrisome so I suggest performing a test of the electronics to determine there are no parasitic electronics secretly draining your battery even when the key is turned off.

***

[my12by60]

I was out running errands today and shut the bike off then restarted at least 5 or 6 times.  All starts were strong.  So for some reason the battery was not getting a proper re-charge while I was riding for the  3 or 4 weeks prior to the no start episode.  Nobody has commented on the possibility of the answer just being the loose battery cable.  Is that not a possible source of a battery failing to receive a proper charge from the alternator?  Or would I have observed some other symptoms prior to the battery becoming too depleted to start the bike?

[Bone]

Could that slightly loose negative cable have been preventing the battery from getting a full recharge from the alternator when I was riding?

It's hard to know how loose is slightly loose. The contact could have been intermittent reducing the ground to the size of a very small wire. Enough power flow to turn on a bulb but not crank the starter.

[X Ring]

Clean, tight connections are a requirement for proper charging.  In addition, a loose connection will require a lot of power to send sufficient power to the starter and more importantly to fire the ignition.

Marty

[MP]

I think that the "slightly loose" ground cable may well have been at fault.  For now, I would think it is good to go.

MP

[my12by60]

Thanks guys.  I think we can close the case for now as being due to the improperly tightened ground cable to the battery.  Thinking back to when I put the new battery in last November, I remember only using a screwdriver to tighten down the bolt (using the flathead slot on top of the bolt) that holds the cable in place.  I put my socket on the bolts this time for both the positive and negative cables.  If I have no recurring electrical issues, then I think that will confirm the loose battery cable was the problem.

Switching topics, while reading the forum on electrical issues I saw people discussing "cleaning the ground connection to the engine".   Where on our engines is that ground connection made?  I looked underneath the bike and did not see anything obvious.  Is this connection the other end of the negative battery cable?  What is the best way to clean the connection?

[MP]

Is this connection the other end of the negative battery cable?


Yes.  Remove, clean up both cable and engine, and reattach.

MP