Pregnant Women who Lose Babies (Stillborn) Face Murder Charges

[donaldcc]

   This just doesn't seem right.  Fetal homicide laws intended to protect pregnant women and their unborn children from violent attacks by third parties being turned around to prosecute pregnant women with still born fetus. ???

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/jun/24/america-pregnant-women-murder-charges

[Fudd]

Gives a whole new meaning to the term "miscarrage of justice."

[fiddle mike]

I don't have a problem with a woman doing time after she's killed her unborn with cocaine.
.
The gal who denies poisoning her Downs baby is just one more victim of the idiots in  CPS and badge-heavy cops.
 

[Bobbo]

I'm guessing she will be acquitted.  Sad situation.  Post the outcome if you follow this story.

[musclehead]

this really steps into a fecal flinging exercise.  I break with alot of conservatives (more of the libertarian point of view) on this issue because I don't want the government telling people what they can and cant do with their bodies. BUT!!! when does this become murder? at what point does a fetus have the rights of other americans?

a 34 year old woman should be educated enough and have enough life experience to know that when you have a child you become second. the child is first and takes precedent over all other considerations. we don't see that a whole lot in the news do we? millions of parents are out there quietly doing the right things, but these kinds of stories are front page. like the anthony trial here in FL.

[BigAl]

Personal Responsiblity if not practiced by the individual, becomes a issue for the state.

Only men and woman of high moral stature deserve freedom, such as those led by the Higher Calling of those

that follow a main stream religion.(Personally they reccomended Christ as an Example to Follow)

This is not my idea but the framers of our Bill Of Rights and the Constitution of the United States of America came up with this one.

So if we can't keep our ducks in a row, someone has to do it for us.

AL

[Bobbo]

Only men and woman of high moral stature deserve freedom, such as those led by the Higher Calling of those that follow a main stream religion.(Personally they reccomended Christ as an Example to Follow)

This is not my idea but the framers of our Bill Of Rights and the Constitution of the United States of America came up with this one.

No Founding Father ever said these things, especially in respect to "main stream religion" or Christ.

Only one Founding Father came close...  John Adams said "Our constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other."  Meaning that it is not a catch-all but rather a beginning framework.

Here's another:

"The Constitution of most of our states (and of the United States) assert that all power is inherent in the people; that they may exercise it by themselves; that it is their right and duty to be at all times armed and that they are entitled to freedom of person, freedom of religion, freedom of property, and freedom of press."  Thomas Jefferson

Mr. Jefferson says that freedom is inherent in everyone, and free to follow any religion, not "main stream"

[BigAl]

Yes Bobbo I was paraphasing.

Adams said the same thing I did in a different way, you can frame these guys any way you like.

But they all knew about the Gospel and Christ.

The quote you used.

Only one Founding Father came close...  John Adams said "Our constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other."  Meaning that it is not a catch-all but rather a beginning framework

[Bobbo]

But they all knew about the Gospel and Christ.

I'm sure they all knew, but not all claimed it as their religion.  Again, look into Mr. Jefferson.

[BigAl]

Bobbo I want you to know that I persoanlly think you are a very intelligent person.

I have watched you and you are always,, I believe any way,,,factual.

I like the part about Jefferson saying we should always be armed.

 "The Constitution of most of our states (and of the United States) assert that all power is inherent in the people; that they may exercise it by themselves; that it is their right and duty to be at all times armed and that they are entitled to freedom of person, freedom of religion, freedom of property, and freedom of press."  Thomas Jefferson

Just remember it does not say Freedom From Religion, just Freedom of Religion.

The Romans were like this in many ways, tolerant of other religions, until it became Christian.

[BigAl]

Yes as you have explained before, Jefferson was a Deist.

I get it.

You are most assuredley right.

AL

[Bobbo]

Just remember it does not say Freedom From Religion, just Freedom of Religion.

Freedom of religion inherently includes freedom from religion.  We have no laws that require adherence to any religion.

With that, I believe we have hijacked this thread enough.

As to the OP, women have also had miscarriages due to poor nutrition and other personal choices.  I doubt this trial will go far, and is more of a show than due process.  

[Robert]

I think this example brings a broader point up. I also think Bobbo has the exact phrase
"Our constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other."
The founding fathers where mostly brought up Christian and although Jefferson later said he was a deist he still adhered to the moral code of Christianity. Not all the founding fathers proclaimed that they were Christian but all did live to Christian ideals and proclaimed those values. I don’t say that they lived perfect lives either. But what we have today is people looking to laws rather than God for a moral compass and hope. Most laws put there with the idea to control people when they have no morals or hope in themselves. This has never worked, just like that phrase said; unless someone has a reason to do good outside of the laws then no law will in itself guarantee a good life. A person falling into the hands of the law should be a last resort when there was no hope and nothing that could have been done. It is tragic that a person with a train wreck life will be prosecuted her life wasted and dies with guilt shame and the death of a child. Lawyers and funeral homes are the winners, everyone else is a looser. We make laws to prosecute but we have no way to actually help these people to return them to a good life. Basically we finished what drugs and bad decisions weren't able to, kill or throw away people. We have all broken laws we should all be in jail. Christians are not the best example as people but they have a moral compass not given to them by laws if indeed they do follow Christ and are not posers. When will it be told that the Bible offers hope to the hopeless? When will it be that religion will stop the limits and want to control so those who come can actually have the relationship with Jesus that he died for? When will it be that those who don’t want the Bible in their lives will offer something better and those that have the Bible will start with not being judge and have the compassion that Jesus talked about? People cry foul of the 10 Commandments but offer nothing in its place. Maybe just maybe a model of how people should be and how to treat each other like the 10 commandments were put up in more places then this life would have been saved. The US imprisons the most of any other country in the world. I am really sad to see these kinds of things happen, no one wins and no one does anything, so we effectively kill another life in fact this was a 2 for one. Without a good example for people to follow and simple rules on how to be and treat one another and support for those that need it and last hope then we might as well be the ones that killed that life. I have seen the compassion of Jesus work miracles in life and give hope to the hopeless.  I am not talking about religion but a true relationship, and for Bobbo I have seen religion do its own damage and needs to answer for some wrongs too. But don’t throw the ideas of what our country was founded on, make the church accountable to the words of Jesus. They are not restrictive in any way or for the detriment of people but for the betterment of all. Not done with a heavy hand but with the compulsion of love.
Maybe then we wouldn't have tv shows like 16 and pregnant and the general downward spiral that is happening.