Same sex marriage

[The Anvil]

The constitution also does not, in your words, "prohibit or in any way discourage" marraige between 3 guys and 2 gals, nor between a guy and a gorilla.  So, by YOUR OWN LOGIC, these are OK too.

As already mentioned by someone else; now you're just being silly with the gorilla. It's between 2 PEOPLE. NOT PEOPLE AND ANIMALS OR MORE THAN 2 PEOPLE. You do know what qualtity the number represents, don't you?

I also agree with Willow that we find it ironic that it OK to pass a law forcing some to accept gay marraige is OK, but passing a law to deny that is not OK.  What hyprocisy.

Yes, of course you do.    Like Willow it would seem you also don't understand irony and hyporicy.

MP

[Bobbo]

What I worry about is, what if God decides that our country has become as wicked as Sodom and Gomorrah?

I have to agree with Big Al, I think that rampant homosexuality is what resulted in the demise of the Roman Empire.  I think that God did become displeased with them and allowed their fall.


But I do think that somewhere, someday, somehow there will be eternal repercussions because of it.

Willow, please note that The Anvil's attempt at raw humor at the group may not be that far off...

These sentiments reflect exactly the sentiments of Westboro Baptist, except he expressed them here instead of at a funeral.

Bobbo,

This is NOTHING LIKE THE IDIOTS AT WBC, 

If YOU CAN'T SEE THE DIFFERENCE THEN I HAVE BEEN VERY WRONG IN GIVING YOU CREDIT FOR BEING AN INTELLIGENT PERSON.

AND IF YOU WANT TO CALL ME OUT THEN BE A MAN ABOUT IT AND DO SO PERSONALLY AND DON'T HIDE BEHIND ADMIN. 

                           

Look into WBC's "mission".  From their website:

Meaning of "God Hates Fags"

"GOD HATES FAGS" -- though elliptical -- is a profound theological statement, which the world needs to hear more than it needs oxygen, water and bread. The three words, fully expounded, show:

1. the absolute sovereignty of "GOD" in all matters whatsoever (e.g., Jeremiah 32:17, Isaiah 45:7, Amos 3:6, Proverbs 16:4, Matthew 19:26, Romans 9:11-24, Romans 11:33-36, etc.),

2. the doctrine of reprobation or God's "HATE" involving eternal retribution or the everlasting punishment of most of mankind in Hell forever (e.g., Leviticus 20:13,23, Psalm 5:5, Psalm 11:5, Malachi 1:1-3, Romans 9:11-13, Matthew 7:13,23, John 12:39-40, 1 Peter 2:8, Jude 4, Revelation 13:8, 20:15, 21:27, etc.), and

3. the certainty that all impenitent sodomites (under the elegant metaphor of "FAGS" as the contraction of faggots, fueling the fires of God's wrath) will inevitably go to Hell (e.g., Romans 1:18-32, 1 Corinthians 6:9-11, 1 Timothy 1:8-11, Jude 7, etc.).

The only lawful sexual connection is the marriage bed. All other sex activity is whoremongery and adultery, which will damn the soul forever in Hell. Heb. 13:4. Decadent, depraved, degenerate and debauched America, having bought the lie that It's OK to be gay, has thereby changed the truth of God into a lie, and now worships and serves the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen! Rom. 1:25. But the Word of God abides. Better to be a eunuch if the will of God be so, and make sure of Heaven. Mat. 19:12. Better to be blind or lame, than to be cast into Hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched. Mk. 9:43-48. Abstain, you fools.

I am hiding behind nothing or no one.  I mentioned Willow, since he admonished The Anvil for joking about this site being a WBC rally.  You actually proved The Anvil's point for him.

[Bonzo]

Excuse me I have to go unbind my loins

[The Anvil]

When I made the WBC comment I was actually poking fun at my other comment (and myself) that started a shitstorm in another thread.

But I will say this; the more I read this the more I see the connection. Though to be fair I don't think anyone here has spewed anything approaching the level of venom that Phelps and his stinking zoo-creatures have spewed. But the general philosophy (that America will suffer god's wrath for the acceptance of homosexuality) is shared and HAS been expressed by some. If you believe that god will crush America because we don't chase the gays out then you're essentially agreeing with Phelps. You might be less nast about it. But if it walks like a duck... quack, quack.

It's that kind of attitude that inspires this kind of contempt towards religion:

"And the sins of the fathers shall be
visited upon the heads of the children,
even unto the third and fourth
generation of them that hate me."

Well, then I hate thee, unrighteous picture;
Wicked image, I hate thee;
So, strike with thy vengeance
The heads of those little men
Who come blindly.
It will be a brave thing.  

                       - Stephen Crane

[fudgie]

But before they lay down, the men of the city, the men of Sodom, surrounded the house, both old and young, all the people from every quarter. And they called to Lot, and said to him, Where are the men which came in to you this night? Bring them out to us, that we may know them.  (Gen 19:4-5)

The part, "that we may know them", is in reference to a homosexual act. Some translations add the word carnally others say, "that we may have sex with them".

Now, if you wanted to argue that homosexuality was not the only sin among the people of Sodom and thus was only a part of why God chose to destroy them, I would not disagree with you.  

Then Jehovah rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire, from Jehovah out of the heavens.  And He overthrew those cities, and all the plain, and all the inhabitants of the cities, and that which grew upon the ground. (Gen 19:24-25)

God destoyed the wicked cities and ALL who lived in them.

I would say that he clearly didn't like what was going on there.

I read that twice and I still dont see where homosexuality was bad. I can never understand that when someone past bible verses the chapters and versus are always skiped in order to make their point.

The entire story is a very long one. I condensed it, to avoid making a post that was two pages long.

The omitted verses do not change the meaning or the outcome of the story.

I'm sure I can pick out small chapters and make a point that homosexuality is acceptable using that method.

That is one thing that I do not believe that you can do.

The Bible is very clear that homosexuality is a sin, and wrong before the eyes of God.

It isn't the only sin, and it is no worse an offense than any other sin, but it is a sin.

 

I guess when I read 'so we may know them' I take it as getting to know them. I know alot of folks here on the VRCC but does not mean I'm gay with them.  ??? Guess its how others interpet it I guess. 

[fudgie]

When I made the WBC comment I was actually poking fun at my other comment (and myself) that started a shitstorm in another thread.

I took your WBC comment as a spin off joke from the Klan. I wasnt offended. 

[SANDMAN5]

I don't have time to read all the posts here. Just in case it's not been mentioned,
the Phelps church misses the Bible's point (maybe on purpose?) about homosexuals.
The actual verse says"...IT is an abomination...". It does NOT say"...YOU are an
abomination...". God hates the sin, not the sinner.

[RoadKill]

I was the first to mention the correlation to Fred Phelps. Any offense to that should be directed to me.

Anvil made another tongue in cheek joke, but should not have included the entire forum...I'm the resident ass here and he directed it more in my direction.  

Bobbo gets the point I was making and should not take all of the flack...God will smite the USA (except Westboro and the Phelps clan ) just like he did Sodom and Rome. Fags are what are bringing this country down ...we get it. why fix the economy when we are doomed because of the gays?    

[Varmintmist]

The constitution also does not, in your words, "prohibit or in any way discourage" marraige between 3 guys and 2 gals, nor between a guy and a gorilla.  So, by YOUR OWN LOGIC, these are OK too.

As already mentioned by someone else; now you're just being silly with the gorilla. It's between 2 PEOPLE. NOT PEOPLE AND ANIMALS OR MORE THAN 2 PEOPLE. You do know what qualtity the number represents, don't you?

I also agree with Willow that we find it ironic that it OK to pass a law forcing some to accept gay marraige is OK, but passing a law to deny that is not OK.  What hyprocisy.

Yes, of course you do.    Like Willow it would seem you also don't understand irony and hyporicy.

MP

Actually,no. Its between a man and a woman, you are changing the definition to be two people. What is the difference if someone else wants to change it to 3+ people (been done already) or a guy and his dog?
A change in the definition is as good as any other change in definition.
 Here are some cat pics

[ricoman]

I am absolutely amazed by the near hatred expressed against gays by some of these posts. If I recall, Christ was all about a four letter word- that word is love.
Where/how do you show love toward another human with the hateful tone/words used against gays?
A gay life is not one I would choose.
Kinda like going darkside. it is not for me and while I do not agree with those who make that choice, I do not hate them for that choice. I respect the fact that they  have made it. And, like darkside on a valk, if it works for you-great, just don't sell it to me.

[donaldcc]

Lots of response to this post, huh.  ???

I could care less what people do on their own time, in their own home or wherever just so they don't harm others or infringe on rights of others.

  I am in a great place to live, gay, straight, christian, athiest. . . except too f.ing hot right now.  105* today, 108* tomorrow.  Have to ride in early morning and/or head straight up in the mtns.

[The Anvil]

Actually,no. Its between a man and a woman, you are changing the definition to be two people. What is the difference if someone else wants to change it to 3+ people (been done already) or a guy and his dog?
A change in the definition is as good as any other change in definition.

Okay, you're going with the slippery slope angle. I can kind of understand that, though I still think you're being alrmist. I mean it's always a concern that when you loosen restrictions that it will go to far, right? Give an inch, take a mile?

But at some point don't you have to give people the benefit of the doubt that they're not gonna go off the reservation and start legalizing marriage between man and beast? Kinda like any other responsibility, right?

[MP]

Actually,no. Its between a man and a woman, you are changing the definition to be two people. What is the difference if someone else wants to change it to 3+ people (been done already) or a guy and his dog?
A change in the definition is as good as any other change in definition.

Okay, you're going with the slippery slope angle. I can kind of understand that, though I still think you're being alrmist. I mean it's always a concern that when you loosen restrictions that it will go to far, right? Give an inch, take a mile?

But at some point don't you have to give people the benefit of the doubt that they're not gonna go off the reservation and start legalizing marriage between man and beast? Kinda like any other responsibility, right?

Take the animal angle out of it, that is out there just to make a point.  But surely, you can see the connection with pologomy.  Surely three, or more, PEOPLE in love should be able to get married to each other, just as well as two.

The TWO used to be defined by a man and a woman, now it is being changed to two people.  So, why not three, or more?  Seems like the same argument used to justify taking it to two PEOPLE, can be used to take it to three??

Also, I have not stated my opposition or support for the law.  I am only pointing out the potential for expansion.

MP

[Robert]

How about the politicians that went against public opinion and said we dont have to listen and signed the bill in. Yea that makes us all real proud just like San Fransisco, Gay marriage was voted out and the courts overturned it. I dont hear anyone commenting about this. Regardless what you feel about gay marriage these politicians should be out of office now.

[The Anvil]

How about the politicians that went against public opinion and said we dont have to listen and signed the bill in. Yea that makes us all real proud just like San Fransisco, Gay marriage was voted out and the courts overturned it. I dont hear anyone commenting about this. Regardless what you feel about gay marriage these politicians should be out of office now.

Well I have mixed feelings about that. While I think that politicians should follow their constituent's whenever possible I also know that the masses can be asses. Just because the majority wants something does not necessarily mean that it's the right course. But that's dangerous territory, I'll allow that much.

[Jack]

A guy at work opined on the subject - Why not, they should have the right to be just as miserable as everybody else.

+1

[junior]

ok this is gonna be alittle crude and prob obnoxious,and offencive...........i cant see what differance it makes if they want to marry one or another. look at it this way they cant reproduce and have natural born kids, so they will eventualy gonna kill themselfs off and it aint like they are screwing in the streets............and old2soon it aint like you never seen 2 dykes munching eachothers rug on the puter (and dont tell me that you havent ) so i dont see the issue, i think it should raise less of an issue  when serk voted for Obama


you bunch of drama queens

oooooooooooooi am ofended,protect my rights, dont let the same sex marages happen  i dont think it really matters on who is boinking who as long as they aint poking your wife


willow spank me if you must  i have my rights too and my beleifs too and i really think it wrong that serk voted for Obama

[fudgie]

ok this is gonna be alittle crude and prob obnoxious,and offencive...........i cant see what differance it makes if they want to marry one or another. look at it this way they cant reproduce and have natural born kids, so they will eventualy gonna kill themselfs off and it aint like they are screwing in the streets............and old2soon it aint like you never seen 2 dykes munching eachothers rug on the puter (and dont tell me that you havent ) so i dont see the issue, i think it should raise less of an issue  when serk voted for Obama


you bunch of drama queens

oooooooooooooi am ofended,protect my rights, dont let the same sex marages happen  i dont think it really matters on who is boinking who as long as they aint poking your wife


willow spank me if you must  i have my rights too and my beleifs too and i really think it wrong that serk voted for Obama

Oh my! I cannot believe what I just read. serk voted for Obama? 

[3fan4life]

I am hiding behind nothing or no one.  I mentioned Willow, since he admonished The Anvil for joking about this site being a WBC rally.  You actually proved The Anvil's point for him.

Your favorite game on this board is TWISTING words and their meaning to suit yourself.

And on many occasions you reach way beyond any reasonable explanation in an attempt to do so.


Well this time I am calling you out.........

You are not going to get away with twisting my words in a pathetic attempt tp prove your point.


ABSOLUTELY NOTHING IN MY POST INDICATES OR SUGGEST A HATRED FOR HOMOSEXUALS.

IN FACT IN THIS THREAD I HAVE CLEARLY STATED THAT ONE SHOULD HATE THE SIN BUT LOVE THE SINNER.

AND I HAVE ALSO CLEARLY STATED THAT WHILE I DON'T AGREE WITH THEIR ACTIONS, I DO AGREE THAT THEY HAVE A RIGHT TO DO SO IN THE PRIVACY OF THEIR OWN BEDROOMS.

FUTHERMORE I MOST CERTAINLY HAVE NOT USED ANY VULGAR LANGUAGE TOWARDS THEM, NOR HAVE I INSULTED THEM IN ANY WAY.     

I SIMPLY STATED THAT I DO NOT APPROVE OF THEIR LIFESTYLE.

AND WHILE IT MAY NOT BE POLITICALLY CORRECT THAT IS MY OPPINION AND I HAVE A RIGHT TO IT.


As for the Bible verses that you have quoted, if you read them you will find nothing that tells you to harbor hatred for the homosexuals themselves.

If you really knew the Bible then you would know that God loves everyone the same.

God doesn't hate people, he hates sin.

God doesn't condemn people to Hell, people condemn themselves when they choose to live a sinful life without repentance.

In other words when they say, "Screw you God, I'm gonna do whatever I want".


I have no idea if God will ever rain down fire and brimstone on America as he did Sodom and Gomorrah.

God is the Almighty and he will do whatever he chooses to do, and I don't believe that he will feel the need to send me a memo first.

I know that his word says that homosexuality is wrong, so therefore I know that he does not approve of it.

I never suggested in any way that any man should punish homosexuals for their behavior, that is between them and God.

I don't like it when our government officially sanctions something that the Bible tells me is wrong.

And that is exactly what official same sex marriage does.

But, I have not and will not be standing on a street corner carrying any signs that say "God Hates Fags".

Because I know in my heart that he does not, he in fact LOVES them.

And the ones that I know personally I also love, just not in "that" way. 
 

[ValhallaIamComing]

The large population centers on the east and west coast are richer because of the diversity of it's population and that includes the homosexuals moving there to excape  the stigma and persecution from the more conservative parts of America. Wasn't too many years ago a young man from Wyoming was tortured and killed and left hanging from a fence because it got out that he was a gay. When a segment of the population that poses no threat to anyone is targeted, abused and persecuted something is very wrong. 

Actually, those large population centers on the east and west coast are getting poorer by the second with their handout social welfare politics.  Its funny how the "fly over" states are the ones that manage to balance their budgets every year.  Y'all just keep flyin over... but don't land here please!   

[Fla. Jim]

As a lifelong Republican Conservative and a Christian. And as one who has known several gays in his life. I am glad to see this coming about. No one wants to be gay in a hetro world. But being as they are what they are why should a gay couple not be able to enjoy the same benifits that society has allowed the rest of us.  Not like they are going to breed more gays or force us into becoming gay. I also have known a couple of men that grew up with two mommies and they both are fine upstanding citizens in every way. And they are hetro with kids. Life is too short to focus on sexual orientation that most now accept is a given from birth. Now perverts of whatever orientation that force themselves on others is quite a different thing, but well outside the scope of this post.

[thumper]

Would a German Shepard make a better life companion than say a Wirehaired Schnauzer?

I've found the shepard to be a beautiful dog with great temprament and a loyal companion.

I don't know dick about the Wirehaired Schnauzer....er....maybe I shouldn't have said dick.

I'm hoping some of my motorcycle brothers can help out here with this canine problem and hijack this stupid thread.

[Serk]

serk voted for Obama

I did WHAT?????

[Chattanooga Mark]

Silence is consent.
God is clear about what is and isn't sin.
Jesus is clear about what is and isn't sin.
The Holy Spirit is clear about what is and isn't sin.
The Holy Bible is clear about what is and isn't sin.
Backsliding, powerless, carnal christians who don't really know their God or His word are like salt that has lost its ability to flavor. It's worth nothing but to be trampled on the ground. At least mankind can repent and get revived, salt doesn't have that option.
Jesus always said "Go, and sin no more."
The people in Lots area thought they could live anyway they chose without repercusion, same with the people of Noahs time.

Less than 1 second after you take your last breath, you'll know every word of the Holy Bible is true. Every knee will bow and every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord. The Bible doesn't say which side of physical death it will be on. We get to choose that for ourselves.

Choose Wisely,

Mark

[x]

Jesus is clear about what is and isn't sin.

Erm... what was it that Jesus said about homosexuality?  Or gay marriage?

[Walküre]

New York became the 6th and the largest state to approve same sex marriage. Law goes into effect next month. As a christian i myself find this repulsive.

Hmmmm....then don't marry a gay......problem solved......

[RoadKill]

serk voted for Obama

I did WHAT?????

You know what you did...You dirty bird !     Just hope that no one ever finds out !   

What ever it was,it could have been worse....you could have voted for Obama !   

[Paxton]

Food for Thought... or Not...

Today I made time for meditation and mused over the issue of same-sex-marriage. I pondered over these quotes,
especially those that  defy "conventional wisdom..," which isn't always conventional. 

...just sharing 

A. "We are motivated more by aversion to the unpleasant than by a will toward truth, freedom, or healing. We are constantly attempting to escape our life,
to avoid rather than enter our pain... we then wonder why it is so difficult to be fully alive. "

B. "Faith is believing in something you know isn't true. You believe what your eyes want to believe. We don't get to choose what is true.
We only get to choose what we do about it."

C. "It is the certainty that they possess the truth, which makes men cruel.  How 'bout a shot of truth in that denial cocktail."

D. "If you have no intention of loving or being loved, then the whole journey is pointless. Like love, the light or guidance of truth that influences us
exists only in living form, not in principles or rules or expectations or advice, however widely circulated."

E.  "Belief means not wanting to know what is true... What you see is what you see. We can't believe what we believe to be untrue,
and we can't love what we believe to be unreal."

F. "To cheapen the lives of any group of people, cheapens the lives of all people, even our own.”

G. "With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things,
that takes religion. Our idea of God tells us more about ourselves than about Him."

H. "It is discouraging how many people are shocked by honesty and so few by deceit. The truth knocks on your door and you say,
'Go away, I'm looking for the truth,' and so it goes away."

I. "We are willing to believe anything other than the truth. The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it,
but in the end, there it is."

J. "Freedom means the supremacy of human rights everywhere. Our support goes to those who struggle to gain those rights and keep them.
Our strength is our unity of purpose. To that high concept there can be no end save victory."

K. "To hate man and love God seems to be the sum of all creeds.  All we need to understand is that human life was given equally to us all,
not partially but in totality."

L. "The man who lies to himself and listens to his own lie comes to such a pass that he cannot distinguish the truth within him,
or around him, and so loses all respect for himself and for others. How hurtful it can be to deny one's true self and live a life of lies just to appease others."

M. "An opinion should be the result of thought, not a substitute for it. The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it. 
You have the ability to choose your reactions."

N. "Judging is preventing us from understanding a new truth. Free yourself from the rules of old judgments and create the space
for new understanding. When one experiences truth, the madness of finding fault with others disappears."

O. "We are like chameleons, we take our hue and the color of our moral character from those who are around us.
Few among men are they who cross to the further shore. The others merely run up and down the bank on this side."

P. "In this treacherous world nothing is the truth nor a lie. Everything depends on the color
Of the crystal through which one sees it 
You'd be amazed how much fun you can have if you get out of your own head."

Q. "If what you seek is Truth, there is one thing you must have above all else… an overwhelming passion for it…
No. An unremitting readiness to admit you may be wrong."

R. "The fact that logic cannot satisfy us awakens an almost insatiable hunger for the irrational. The truth may be out there,
but the lies are inside our head."

S. "You can safely assume you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do."

T. Institutionalized rejection of differences is an absolute necessity in a profit economy which needs outsiders as surplus people."

U. "There's always a 'but.' It's a magical word. You can say anything you want, go on for as long as you want,
and then all you have to do is add the magic word and instantly everything you said is erased, turned meaningless, just like that."

V. "Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing ever happened."

W. "Our kindness may be the most persuasive argument for that which we believe."

X. "Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth."

Y."It is always the false that makes you suffer, the false desires and fears, the false values and ideas,
the false relationships between people. Abandon the false and you are free of pain..."

Z. "Understanding is a three edged sword: your side, their side, and the truth."

RIDE SAFE

[Walküre]

Food for Thought... or Not...

Today I made time for meditation and mused over the issue of same-sex-marriage. I pondered over these quotes,
especially those that  defy "conventional wisdom..," which isn't always conventional. 

...just sharing 

A. - Z.

+ a dozen! Nice selection!! I can think of some more, but you have covered it just fine. Thanks!

R

[junior]

ok sence all the god gurus have spoken thier mind................ i have just one question for all the homophobes out there.


AND JUST WHAT THE HECK DOES THIS THREAD HAD ANYTING TO DO WITH THE VALK OR BIKE RIDING? FOR ALL YOU KNOW ONE OF THEN "QUEERS" WAS ON THE ASSEMBLY LINE WHEN YOUR BIKE WAS PASSING THRU. SO THINK ABOUT IT THERE IS A REAL GOOD POSSABILITIY THAT ONE OF THEM TOUCHED YOUR BIKE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


there now its bike related


ps. and as for serk voting for Obama...................i lied,i know he really hates the sillt halfrican

sorry serk

[oxfordhog]

I think it's time to kick back with your favorite beverage (mine being a Long Island Iced Tea) and listen to John Lennon's Imagine.

[x]

B. "Faith is believing in something you know isn't true. You believe what your eyes want to believe. We don't get to choose what is true. We only get to choose what we do about it."

I thoroughly disagree with this definition of faith.  Faith is not about 'believing' and therefore is not about 'believing in something you know isn't true'.

Faith is a state of mind whose opposite is fear.  

Both are states of mind that exist in response to uncertainty.

Fear arises out of not knowing what the outcome of a situation will be.

Faith is that state of mind that says, "I will be OK, no matter what the outcome."

A 'believer' is one whose beliefs cannot be altered, no matter what reality or the fact situation may tell her/him.  He/she is rigid in beliefs.

Those that live rigidly in their lives, their religion, and their views to change don't have faith.  They attempt to control uncertainty through rigidity in life, particularly religion, a foundation for 'certainty'.
 
The true believer cannot acknowledge that religious beliefs that are actually homophobic bigotry exist only to support the framework of 'certainty'.  To acknowledge the rights of gay people to marry would completely upset the framework, even if it is a house of cards.  It is a threat to the 'certainty' of an evangelical Jesus and bible.
 
Those with faith, regardless of whether they accept or reject the decision, don't feel threatened by by it.  Their faith carries them forward in an uncertain world.

[Varmintmist]

Actually,no. Its between a man and a woman, you are changing the definition to be two people. What is the difference if someone else wants to change it to 3+ people (been done already) or a guy and his dog?
A change in the definition is as good as any other change in definition.

Okay, you're going with the slippery slope angle. I can kind of understand that, though I still think you're being alrmist. I mean it's always a concern that when you loosen restrictions that it will go to far, right? Give an inch, take a mile?

But at some point don't you have to give people the benefit of the doubt that they're not gonna go off the reservation and start legalizing marriage between man and beast? Kinda like any other responsibility, right?

Seems to me they original definers gave the benefit of the doubt that no one would try to call a relationship between 2 people of the same sex (thats sex, not gender, another bastardazation of terms) a marriage by going off the reservation. And where are we now? One state has made it legal, about 7 others were forced to by a court, and 30 have said no.

[Willow]

Erm... what was it that Jesus said about homosexuality?  Or gay marriage?

"Have you not read that He who created them from the beginning made them male and female, and said, 'For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh'?  So they are no longer two, but one flesh.  What therefore God has joined together let no man separate."

Granted the context is a discussion of divorce, but I think it reveals an expectation of the makeup of a marriage.

Incidentally, Wayne, I agree with most of what you have to say about faith. 

[G-Man]

I notice that the folks complaining about "making laws and forcing them down other people's throats" are the one's in support of making new laws.  Am I the only one that sees a bit of irony in that?     [/i]

I didn't like that this was yet another Democratic backed law, that was schemed upon over the past couple weeks (they kept putting off the vote until they knew they had the numbers due to "offers" and absence), voted on at the very last hour on Friday night (Oh, along with the NY state budget that Status Cuomo does nothing with to address the overspending).  Then they all sneak out to avoid having to answer for their votes. 

I am not very proud of my state legislators.  Mostly due to the way they seem to always sneak things through and their constant deception. 

[x]

I notice that the folks complaining about "making laws and forcing them down other people's throats" are the one's in support of making new laws.  Am I the only one that sees a bit of irony in that?     [/i]

I didn't like that this was yet another Democratic backed law, that was schemed upon over the past couple weeks (they kept putting off the vote until they knew they had the numbers due to "offers" and absence), voted on at the very last hour on Friday night (Oh, along with the NY state budget that Status Cuomo does nothing with to address the overspending).  Then they all sneak out to avoid having to answer for their votes. 

I am not very proud of my state legislators.  Mostly due to the way they seem to always sneak things through and their constant deception. 

So... bottom line... beyond the process... do you have a problem with gay marriage?

[Bobbo]

Well this time I am calling you out.........

You are not going to get away with twisting my words in a pathetic attempt tp prove your point.


ABSOLUTELY NOTHING IN MY POST INDICATES OR SUGGEST A HATRED FOR HOMOSEXUALS.

IN FACT IN THIS THREAD I HAVE CLEARLY STATED THAT ONE SHOULD HATE THE SIN BUT LOVE THE SINNER.

AND I HAVE ALSO CLEARLY STATED THAT WHILE I DON'T AGREE WITH THEIR ACTIONS, I DO AGREE THAT THEY HAVE A RIGHT TO DO SO IN THE PRIVACY OF THEIR OWN BEDROOMS.

FUTHERMORE I MOST CERTAINLY HAVE NOT USED ANY VULGAR LANGUAGE TOWARDS THEM, NOR HAVE I INSULTED THEM IN ANY WAY.     

I SIMPLY STATED THAT I DO NOT APPROVE OF THEIR LIFESTYLE.

AND WHILE IT MAY NOT BE POLITICALLY CORRECT THAT IS MY OPPINION AND I HAVE A RIGHT TO IT.


As for the Bible verses that you have quoted, if you read them you will find nothing that tells you to harbor hatred for the homosexuals themselves.

If you really knew the Bible then you would know that God loves everyone the same.

God doesn't hate people, he hates sin.

God doesn't condemn people to Hell, people condemn themselves when they choose to live a sinful life without repentance.

In other words when they say, "Screw you God, I'm gonna do whatever I want".


I have no idea if God will ever rain down fire and brimstone on America as he did Sodom and Gomorrah.

God is the Almighty and he will do whatever he chooses to do, and I don't believe that he will feel the need to send me a memo first.

I know that his word says that homosexuality is wrong, so therefore I know that he does not approve of it.

I never suggested in any way that any man should punish homosexuals for their behavior, that is between them and God.

I don't like it when our government officially sanctions something that the Bible tells me is wrong.

And that is exactly what official same sex marriage does.

But, I have not and will not be standing on a street corner carrying any signs that say "God Hates Fags".

Because I know in my heart that he does not, he in fact LOVES them.

And the ones that I know personally I also love, just not in "that" way. 

Describing parallels in your opinion and that of WBC does not imply you hate homosexuals.  You expressed concern that God will decide we have become as Sodom and Gomorrah and there will be eternal repercussions because of it.  WBC shares this concern, and it is the basis of their protests.  WBC goes much further, and believes these repercussions are happening already, as witnessed by military deaths.  I am not suggesting you are a member of WBC, or that you will join their protests.

The Bible verses were from WBC's website, which they use to justify their beliefs and protests.  They are probably among the same verses you interpret to show God's disapproval of homosexuality.

[x]

Erm... what was it that Jesus said about homosexuality?  Or gay marriage?

"Have you not read that He who created them from the beginning made them male and female, and said, 'For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh'?  So they are no longer two, but one flesh.  What therefore God has joined together let no man separate."

Granted the context is a discussion of divorce, but I think it reveals an expectation of the makeup of a marriage.

Incidentally, Wayne, I agree with most of what you have to say about faith. 

Willow, interesting "stretch" but says nothing about the actual views of Jesus with respect to homosexuality, gay marriage, or for that matter, women in the church, drinking too much, or dancing.  Don't think he said much about any of this.
 
Suspected you are one of the faithful... even if we're not aligned on all points.  Blessings, sir.

[hubcapsc]

So... bottom line... beyond the process... do you have a problem with gay marriage?

I do. Anyhow, as this push for the normalization of homosexuals into our society continues,
I await the inevitable Supreme Court decision on whether or not South Carolina must
recognize the "marriage" of homosexuals from New York (or whatever)...

-Mike

[G-Man]

Erm... what was it that Jesus said about homosexuality?  Or gay marriage?

"Have you not read that He who created them from the beginning made them male and female, and said, 'For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh'?  So they are no longer two, but one flesh.  What therefore God has joined together let no man separate."

Granted the context is a discussion of divorce, but I think it reveals an expectation of the makeup of a marriage.

Incidentally, Wayne, I agree with most of what you have to say about faith. 

Willow, interesting "stretch" but says nothing about the actual views of Jesus with respect to homosexuality, gay marriage, or for that matter, women in the church, drinking too much, or dancing.  Don't think he said much about any of this.
 
Suspected you are one of the faithful... even if we're not aligned on all points.  Blessings, sir.

It's none of your, or anyone's, business!