A Texan's Answer to Welfare (via email)

[TomT]

This was in the Waco Tribune Herald, Waco , TX Nov 18, 2010

Put me in charge . . .

Put me in charge of food stamps. I'd get rid of Lone Star cards; no cash for
Ding Dongs or Ho Ho's, just money for 50-pound bags of rice and beans,
blocks of cheese and all the powdered milk you can haul away. If you want
steak and frozen pizza, then get a job.

Put me in charge of Medicaid. The first thing I'd do is to get women
Norplant birth control implants or tubal ligations. Then, we'll test
recipients for drugs, alcohol, and nicotine and document all tattoos and
piercings. If you want to reproduce or use drugs, alcohol, smoke or get
tats and piercings, then get a job.

Put me in charge of government housing. Ever live in a military barracks?
You will maintain our property in a clean and good state of repair. Your
"home" will be subject to inspections anytime and possessions will be
inventoried. If you want a plasma TV or Xbox 360, then get a job and your
own place.

In addition, you will either present a check stub from a job each week or
you will report to a "government" job. It may be cleaning the roadways of
trash, painting and repairing public housing, whatever we find for you. We
will sell your 22 inch rims and low profile tires and your blasting stereo
and speakers and put that money toward the “common good.”

Before you write that I've violated someone's rights, realize that all of
the above is voluntary. If you want our money, accept our rules.. Before
you say that this would be "demeaning" and ruin their "self esteem,"
consider that it wasn't that long ago that taking someone else's money for
doing absolutely nothing was demeaning and lowered self esteem.

If we are expected to pay for other people's mistakes we should at least
attempt to make them learn from their bad choices. The current system
rewards them for continuing to make bad choices.

AND While you are on Gov’t subsistence, you no longer can VOTE! Yes that is
correct. For you to vote would be a conflict of interest. You will
voluntarily remove yourself from voting while you are receiving a Gov’t
welfare check. If you want to vote, then get a job.
Now, if you have the guts - PASS IT ON...

[ValhallaIamComing]

Sounds fair to me!

[Gryphon]

The last paragraph will be the most controversial, but might have the biggest effect in the long term.  While I can't say this for sure and have no data to substantiate this opinion, it might have greatly effected the last election significantly.

[Bobbo]

While this message is obviously geared towards a particular ethnic group, it has both reasonable and problematic solutions.

Put me in charge of food stamps. I'd get rid of Lone Star cards; no cash for
Ding Dongs or Ho Ho's, just money for 50-pound bags of rice and beans,
blocks of cheese and all the powdered milk you can haul away.

This suggestion would be workable.  Government warehouses of dried and preserved basic food could be rationed to people needing food assistance.  Would create jobs for stocking, distribution, and other maintenance.  They could deliver this food to invalids and physically disabled people.  Better yet, the government hires private companies to take care of this. 

Put me in charge of Medicaid. The first thing I'd do is to get women
Norplant birth control implants or tubal ligations. Then, we'll test
recipients for drugs, alcohol, and nicotine and document all tattoos and
piercings. If you want to reproduce or use drugs, alcohol, smoke or get
tats and piercings, then get a job.

This one is problematic.  Forced birth control would violate First Amendment religious freedom rights for Catholics, Mormons, Muslims, and many others who have religious restrictions against birth control.  Testing for drugs and other vices would be expensive, so you would have to see if it is cost effective.  Documenting tats and piercings is just plain silly...

Put me in charge of government housing. Ever live in a military barracks?
You will maintain our property in a clean and good state of repair. Your
"home" will be subject to inspections anytime and possessions will be
inventoried. If you want a plasma TV or Xbox 360, then get a job and your
own place.

This is a mix of workable and problematic.  Demanding that public housing be kept clean is a good idea, but keeping it in repair costs money.  I doubt you want residents working on the plumbing or electrical things.  The inspections are fine, but disallowing certain property is silly.  What if they had these possessions before losing their job, and needing assistance?

In addition, you will either present a check stub from a job each week or
you will report to a "government" job. It may be cleaning the roadways of
trash, painting and repairing public housing, whatever we find for you. We
will sell your 22 inch rims and low profile tires and your blasting stereo
and speakers and put that money toward the “common good.”

This is problematic, and shows the focus is against certain cultures.  Many people on public assistance are physically disabled.   Reporting to a government job is reminiscent of the "New Deal" passed by the Roosevelt Administration in the 1930's.

AND While you are on Gov’t subsistence, you no longer can VOTE! Yes that is
correct. For you to vote would be a conflict of interest. You will
voluntarily remove yourself from voting while you are receiving a Gov’t
welfare check. If you want to vote, then get a job.
Now, if you have the guts - PASS IT ON...

Another problematic one.  Disallowing voting due to unemployment (and not paying taxes) may run afoul of the 24th Amendment, which states you cannot be denied voting rights for not paying a tax.


Overall, we need reform in our public assistance programs.  These extremist suggestions may satisfy the urge for retaliation by some, but only offer a few useful suggestions.

[R J]

I agree 100%.

Also  1 item to add,   if I have to take a urine test to work, then they have to take a urine test to get that check.


Sounds fair to me, but I'm too old to remember the rationing days of WWII.  Also the 35 MPH maximum speed limit in town or on the road somewhere.

Was to conserve gas and tires.    Grandpa rode on worthless tires, with rope wrapped inside of them and then mounted to the rim.     NO air, NO tube, just plain old barn hay making rope.     Worked good for the low speed limit.   And it was enforced by all drivers and LEO's.   If you were driving 35 and someone went honking by you at 40 or more, you were reported to the nearest sheriff's office.

When the sheriff found you, citation was issued and no  matter how hard you argued, the Judge fined you.    Don't remember the fee now but it put a dent in your pocket book especially when all you were making was a dollar a day for sunrise to sunset farm work.

[The Anvil]

If you were driving 35 and someone went honking by you at 40 or more, you were reported to the nearest sheriff's office.

When the sheriff found you, citation was issued and no  matter how hard you argued, the Judge fined you.    Don't remember the fee now but it put a dent in your pocket book especially when all you were making was a dollar a day for sunrise to sunset farm work.

Do you think this is a good idea?

And really, I hope the person who wrote that whackadoo manifesto finds themselves on public assistance at some point in time (and odds are that if they work for a living then they will). They'll think twice about denying constitutional rights.

[ValhallaIamComing]

Food Stamp administration has especially gotten ridiculous... they can buy ANYTHING in the grocery store except ready-to-eat take out food and non-edible items.  Can't tell you how many steaks and chocolates I have seen purchased with food stamps!  It would be so simple to program those cards and the supermarket checkout interfaces so that only milk, cheese, bread, ground beef, vegetables, fruit and other food and cooking staples could be purchased. 

I have to agree forced birth control legislation would be political suicide for any politician... but I think that if you can't afford to take care of your children, then the state government should have legal custody of them and you should have a finite amount of time to get your act together or have your rights terminated.  This might influence (gasp) self-responsibility when it comes to the birth control issue!

Drug testing welfare recipients and monitoring their smoking and drinking habits is just a no-brainer... I can't believe this legislation hasn't passed nationwide!  Also, I agree completely that, since no one forces you to sign up for welfare, you should NOT be adverse to losing some of your privacy rights if you expect the taxpayers to take care of you.

Having some sort of "Job Corps" you must enroll with if you are an able-bodied adult seeking welfare is also a no-brainer.  This would eliminate the "I have to hire illegal aliens because American citizens won't do this work" whining from many employers that are currently perpetuating the border problem.

Government housing SHOULD be run more like a military barracks... again, public assistance should equal loss of privacy rights.

And, yes, voting rights is why probably none of this will ever happen... because then politicians could not pander to the "gimme" voters.  Instead, certain parties exclusively pander to them and promate agendas to increase the handout voter pool.

[Skinhead]

This was in the Waco Tribune Herald, Waco , TX Nov 18, 2010

Put me in charge . . .

Put me in charge of food stamps. I'd get rid of Lone Star cards; no cash for
Ding Dongs or Ho Ho's, just money for 50-pound bags of rice and beans,
blocks of cheese and all the powdered milk you can haul away. If you want
steak and frozen pizza, then get a job.

Put me in charge of Medicaid. The first thing I'd do is to get women
Norplant birth control implants or tubal ligations. Then, we'll test
recipients for drugs, alcohol, and nicotine and document all tattoos and
piercings. If you want to reproduce or use drugs, alcohol, smoke or get
tats and piercings, then get a job.

Put me in charge of government housing. Ever live in a military barracks?
You will maintain our property in a clean and good state of repair. Your
"home" will be subject to inspections anytime and possessions will be
inventoried. If you want a plasma TV or Xbox 360, then get a job and your
own place.

In addition, you will either present a check stub from a job each week or
you will report to a "government" job. It may be cleaning the roadways of
trash, painting and repairing public housing, whatever we find for you. We
will sell your 22 inch rims and low profile tires and your blasting stereo
and speakers and put that money toward the “common good.”

Before you write that I've violated someone's rights, realize that all of
the above is voluntary. If you want our money, accept our rules.. Before
you say that this would be "demeaning" and ruin their "self esteem,"
consider that it wasn't that long ago that taking someone else's money for
doing absolutely nothing was demeaning and lowered self esteem.

If we are expected to pay for other people's mistakes we should at least
attempt to make them learn from their bad choices. The current system
rewards them for continuing to make bad choices.

AND While you are on Gov’t subsistence, you no longer can VOTE! Yes that is
correct. For you to vote would be a conflict of interest. You will
voluntarily remove yourself from voting while you are receiving a Gov’t
welfare check. If you want to vote, then get a job.
Now, if you have the guts - PASS IT ON...

I suggest you run for president!

And Bobbo, I'm glad you could see the humor in the OP.  I want to party with you!

[FLAVALK]

While this message is obviously geared towards a particular ethnic group, it has both reasonable and problematic solutions.

Put me in charge of food stamps. I'd get rid of Lone Star cards; no cash for
Ding Dongs or Ho Ho's, just money for 50-pound bags of rice and beans,
blocks of cheese and all the powdered milk you can haul away.

This suggestion would be workable.  Government warehouses of dried and preserved basic food could be rationed to people needing food assistance.  Would create jobs for stocking, distribution, and other maintenance.  They could deliver this food to invalids and physically disabled people.  Better yet, the government hires private companies to take care of this. 

Put me in charge of Medicaid. The first thing I'd do is to get women
Norplant birth control implants or tubal ligations. Then, we'll test
recipients for drugs, alcohol, and nicotine and document all tattoos and
piercings. If you want to reproduce or use drugs, alcohol, smoke or get
tats and piercings, then get a job.

This one is problematic.  Forced birth control would violate First Amendment religious freedom rights for Catholics, Mormons, Muslims, and many others who have religious restrictions against birth control.  Testing for drugs and other vices would be expensive, so you would have to see if it is cost effective.  Documenting tats and piercings is just plain silly...

Put me in charge of government housing. Ever live in a military barracks?
You will maintain our property in a clean and good state of repair. Your
"home" will be subject to inspections anytime and possessions will be
inventoried. If you want a plasma TV or Xbox 360, then get a job and your
own place.

This is a mix of workable and problematic.  Demanding that public housing be kept clean is a good idea, but keeping it in repair costs money.  I doubt you want residents working on the plumbing or electrical things.  The inspections are fine, but disallowing certain property is silly.  What if they had these possessions before losing their job, and needing assistance?

In addition, you will either present a check stub from a job each week or
you will report to a "government" job. It may be cleaning the roadways of
trash, painting and repairing public housing, whatever we find for you. We
will sell your 22 inch rims and low profile tires and your blasting stereo
and speakers and put that money toward the “common good.”

This is problematic, and shows the focus is against certain cultures.  Many people on public assistance are physically disabled.   Reporting to a government job is reminiscent of the "New Deal" passed by the Roosevelt Administration in the 1930's.

AND While you are on Gov’t subsistence, you no longer can VOTE! Yes that is
correct. For you to vote would be a conflict of interest. You will
voluntarily remove yourself from voting while you are receiving a Gov’t
welfare check. If you want to vote, then get a job.
Now, if you have the guts - PASS IT ON...

Another problematic one.  Disallowing voting due to unemployment (and not paying taxes) may run afoul of the 24th Amendment, which states you cannot be denied voting rights for not paying a tax.


Overall, we need reform in our public assistance programs.  These extremist suggestions may satisfy the urge for retaliation by some, but only offer a few useful suggestions.

The program(s) that we have in place now are "problematic" and don't work worth a damn

[Bobbo]

While this message is obviously geared towards a particular ethnic group, it has both reasonable and problematic solutions.

The program(s) that we have in place now are "problematic" and don't work worth a damn

A simplistic blanket statement like that does nothing to improve the system, it's just a complaint.  What changes and improvements do you suggest?

[FLAVALK]

While this message is obviously geared towards a particular ethnic group, it has both reasonable and problematic solutions.

The program(s) that we have in place now are "problematic" and don't work worth a damn

A simplistic blanket statement like that does nothing to improve the system, it's just a complaint.  What changes and improvements do you suggest?

I suggest the ones  in the original post 

[RP#62]

Overall, we need reform in our public assistance programs.  These extremist suggestions may satisfy the urge for retaliation by some, but only offer a few useful suggestions.

I don't think its retaliation so much as it is frustration.  You bust your ass to make a living and you see the guy in front of you in line "paying" for what would be considered luxury items in most cultures, with food stamps.  I've got mixed feelings because I know there are those that are truly needy.  In this economy, there's often not much margin between doing OK and homeless.  A lot of folks live pay check to pay check.  It just seems that for every one that tries to do the right thing, you've got three that are gaming the system.
-RP 

[Valker]

Final frustration for me was a local person using food stamps to try to buy dog food. Cashier said it wasn't allowed, so the shopper sent her child back to get a 20 lb ham because "He likes ham too".

[Chrisj CMA]

I like Texas.  I likes that post.  Theres nothing more frustrating than watching these kids now a days game the system....they know just how to do it and they brag about it too

Id add...must have proof of legal status in America to begin on assistance of any kind

[Bobbo]

Overall, we need reform in our public assistance programs.  These extremist suggestions may satisfy the urge for retaliation by some, but only offer a few useful suggestions.

I don't think its retaliation so much as it is frustration.  You bust your ass to make a living and you see the guy in front of you in line "paying" for what would be considered luxury items in most cultures, with food stamps.  I've got mixed feelings because I know there are those that are truly needy.  In this economy, there's often not much margin between doing OK and homeless.  A lot of folks live pay check to pay check.  It just seems that for every one that tries to do the right thing, you've got three that are gaming the system.
-RP 

I share that frustration, too, and want to see fraud and waste eliminated.  I consider some of the suggestions in the OP to be retaliatory, since they recommend taking away property that may have been purchased before accepting public assistance.

I also noted those same items are often associated with certain ethnic groups and cultures.  If someone recommended taking away four wheel drive pick up trucks with gun racks, that wouldn't fly either!

[PAVALKER]

While this message is obviously geared towards a particular ethnic group, it has both reasonable and problematic solutions.

What ethnic group do you believe it was obviously geared towards???  I didn't see a specific group mentioned, nor do I believe it was geared to any one specific ethnic group......  unless freeloaders are now classified as an ethnic group????

[designer]

I agree with all wrote.  I've seen other cultures and they have the same concerns as we do. 

[musclehead]

While this message is obviously geared towards a particular ethnic group, it has both reasonable and problematic solutions.

Put me in charge of food stamps. I'd get rid of Lone Star cards; no cash for
Ding Dongs or Ho Ho's, just money for 50-pound bags of rice and beans,
blocks of cheese and all the powdered milk you can haul away.

This suggestion would be workable.  Government warehouses of dried and preserved basic food could be rationed to people needing food assistance.  Would create jobs for stocking, distribution, and other maintenance.  They could deliver this food to invalids and physically disabled people.  Better yet, the government hires private companies to take care of this. 

Put me in charge of Medicaid. The first thing I'd do is to get women
Norplant birth control implants or tubal ligations. Then, we'll test
recipients for drugs, alcohol, and nicotine and document all tattoos and
piercings. If you want to reproduce or use drugs, alcohol, smoke or get
tats and piercings, then get a job.

This one is problematic.  Forced birth control would violate First Amendment religious freedom rights for Catholics, Mormons, Muslims, and many others who have religious restrictions against birth control.  Testing for drugs and other vices would be expensive, so you would have to see if it is cost effective.  Documenting tats and piercings is just plain silly...

Put me in charge of government housing. Ever live in a military barracks?
You will maintain our property in a clean and good state of repair. Your
"home" will be subject to inspections anytime and possessions will be
inventoried. If you want a plasma TV or Xbox 360, then get a job and your
own place.

This is a mix of workable and problematic.  Demanding that public housing be kept clean is a good idea, but keeping it in repair costs money.  I doubt you want residents working on the plumbing or electrical things.  The inspections are fine, but disallowing certain property is silly.  What if they had these possessions before losing their job, and needing assistance?

In addition, you will either present a check stub from a job each week or
you will report to a "government" job. It may be cleaning the roadways of
trash, painting and repairing public housing, whatever we find for you. We
will sell your 22 inch rims and low profile tires and your blasting stereo
and speakers and put that money toward the “common good.”

This is problematic, and shows the focus is against certain cultures.  Many people on public assistance are physically disabled.   Reporting to a government job is reminiscent of the "New Deal" passed by the Roosevelt Administration in the 1930's.

AND While you are on Gov’t subsistence, you no longer can VOTE! Yes that is
correct. For you to vote would be a conflict of interest. You will
voluntarily remove yourself from voting while you are receiving a Gov’t
welfare check. If you want to vote, then get a job.
Now, if you have the guts - PASS IT ON...

Another problematic one.  Disallowing voting due to unemployment (and not paying taxes) may run afoul of the 24th Amendment, which states you cannot be denied voting rights for not paying a tax.


Overall, we need reform in our public assistance programs.  These extremist suggestions may satisfy the urge for retaliation by some, but only offer a few useful suggestions.

get in touch with your sense of humor Bobbo, I think it's supposed to be a joke.......

this is a touch too far for me simply because its far too controlling

[Bobbo]

While this message is obviously geared towards a particular ethnic group, it has both reasonable and problematic solutions.

What ethnic group do you believe it was obviously geared towards???  I didn't see a specific group mentioned, nor do I believe it was geared to any one specific ethnic group......  unless freeloaders are now classified as an ethnic group????

I don't know about your neck of the woods, but in Eastern MO cars with "22 inch rims and low profile tires and your blasting stereo and speakers" are more commonly found on the North side of the city, which is mostly black.  I'm not saying this is exclusive to this area, but is commonly associated with that culture.

Of course you didn't see a specific group mentioned.  Most material of this nature is said with a "wink, wink" instead of coming right out with it's subtle intent.

[Skinhead]

While this message is obviously geared towards a particular ethnic group, it has both reasonable and problematic solutions.

What ethnic group do you believe it was obviously geared towards???  I didn't see a specific group mentioned, nor do I believe it was geared to any one specific ethnic group......  unless freeloaders are now classified as an ethnic group????

I don't know about your neck of the woods, but in Eastern MO cars with "22 inch rims and low profile tires and your blasting stereo and speakers" are more commonly found on the North side of the city, which is mostly black.  I'm not saying this is exclusive to this area, but is commonly associated with that culture.

Of course you didn't see a specific group mentioned.  Most material of this nature is said with a "wink, wink" instead of coming right out with it's subtle intent.

Well I think this is the second time, and as much as it pains me to do so, I have to agree with you, it was obviously targeting blacks, if the OP had included hydraulics, it would have included hispanics and not singled out one specific group.  Good catch Bobbo.

[Trynt]

[/quote]

I don't know about your neck of the woods, but in Eastern MO cars with "22 inch rims and low profile tires and your blasting stereo and speakers" are more commonly found on the North side of the city, which is mostly black.  I'm not saying this is exclusive to this area, but is commonly associated with that culture.

[/quote]

I'm surprised such a racist stereotype would be perpetuated by one of your political stripe. 

[Bugslayer]

This was in the Waco Tribune Herald, Waco , TX Nov 18, 2010

Put me in charge . . .

Put me in charge of food stamps. I'd get rid of Lone Star cards; no cash for
Ding Dongs or Ho Ho's, just money for 50-pound bags of rice and beans,
blocks of cheese and all the powdered milk you can haul away. If you want
steak and frozen pizza, then get a job.

Put me in charge of Medicaid. The first thing I'd do is to get women
Norplant birth control implants or tubal ligations. Then, we'll test
recipients for drugs, alcohol, and nicotine and document all tattoos and
piercings. If you want to reproduce or use drugs, alcohol, smoke or get
tats and piercings, then get a job.

Put me in charge of government housing. Ever live in a military barracks?
You will maintain our property in a clean and good state of repair. Your
"home" will be subject to inspections anytime and possessions will be
inventoried. If you want a plasma TV or Xbox 360, then get a job and your
own place.

In addition, you will either present a check stub from a job each week or
you will report to a "government" job. It may be cleaning the roadways of
trash, painting and repairing public housing, whatever we find for you. We
will sell your 22 inch rims and low profile tires and your blasting stereo
and speakers and put that money toward the “common good.”

Before you write that I've violated someone's rights, realize that all of
the above is voluntary. If you want our money, accept our rules.. Before
you say that this would be "demeaning" and ruin their "self esteem,"
consider that it wasn't that long ago that taking someone else's money for
doing absolutely nothing was demeaning and lowered self esteem.

If we are expected to pay for other people's mistakes we should at least
attempt to make them learn from their bad choices. The current system
rewards them for continuing to make bad choices.

AND While you are on Gov’t subsistence, you no longer can VOTE! Yes that is
correct. For you to vote would be a conflict of interest. You will
voluntarily remove yourself from voting while you are receiving a Gov’t
welfare check. If you want to vote, then get a job.
Now, if you have the guts - PASS IT ON...

Yes, yes and yes! At my work, I see foodstamp abuse (Lonestar Card here in Texas) every day. You should sit back and watch these people shop.  If that doesn't piss you off, somethings wrong.

[Bobbo]

I'm surprised such a racist stereotype would be perpetuated by one of your political stripe. 

I'm not perpetuating anything.  I was asked what group was targeted by this chain email, and responded with my observations for this area.  Maybe you can tell me what my "political stripe" is...  Online tests call me closest to a Libertarian.

[RoadKill]

The ONLY problem I see with the OP was that it is not being implemented into practice IMMEDIATELY !!

the only rational argument against that I have heard is that a couple bleeding hearts would whine and bitch about it because it's not fair to the people who have CHOSEN that set of rules !! I'll take the whining...fair trade !

If they dont want to follow those simple rules they can just make do on their own ,like they ones the wish to burden have done !

[Chrisj CMA]

Its amazing how a couple of youse guys can take ANY post and wring and twist it until someone is the bad guy and there is a controversy.

Holy crap....the original post was spot on, will never happen because the government is way too liberal, political correct and elected officials are more worried about their @$$ then doing the right thing, but it was a fun post, and very true.

Why does it have to be an argument every time?  There are very few statements ever made, that with enough picking and sniping one cant twist it into a rub against something or someone.  Sheesh!

[Trynt]

In an effort to play the race card , you offered "observations" that indicate you associate the afore mentioned characteristics with black culture and thus revealed your own preconceptions and adherence to stereotypes. 

In regard to your politics, I can only judge you by your posts. Despite your reoccurring claim to be a libertarian,  your consistent defense and promotion of liberal causes leads me to believe you are one.    Matthew 7:16 "By their fruit you will recognize them" ( I also recognize you fondness for scripture [ sarcasm font]) I've also taken those online tests and an come up as a libertarian. A left leaning libertarian in fact.  Judging from what you have posted you are most certainly to the left of me.

[CajunRider]

I don't know about your neck of the woods, but in Eastern MO cars with "22 inch rims and low profile tires and your blasting stereo and speakers" are more commonly found on the North side of the city, which is mostly black.  I'm not saying this is exclusive to this area, but is commonly associated with that culture.

Have you seen teenagers lately?  I've seen TONS of kids with the 20" "Blades" and low profiles, plus "Boom Boom" music rattling the trunk... NOT all black. 

Caucasian... Asian... Mexican... You name it... they ALL do it. 

15 years ago, I'd have said you were right, but not now-a-days. 

[ValhallaIamComing]

Of course, when at the TANF office, NOBODY admits to having a car... when asked they say they took the bus to get there because they know the value of the car will be counted as an asset.  Then the income maintenance worker secretly follows them out of the building, watches as they jump into their car (after just saying they rode the bus) and snaps a pic of their license plate.  Then they bitch when they are denied and referred to the investigation dept.!

Then there are the complete A-holes who stroll into the TANF dept. from their expensive new car and smile and say "I don't own a car... I lease one!"  Leased cars don't count as an asset when determining eligibility!

[ValhallaIamComing]

While this message is obviously geared towards a particular ethnic group, it has both reasonable and problematic solutions.

What ethnic group do you believe it was obviously geared towards???  I didn't see a specific group mentioned, nor do I believe it was geared to any one specific ethnic group......  unless freeloaders are now classified as an ethnic group????

I don't know about your neck of the woods, but in Eastern MO cars with "22 inch rims and low profile tires and your blasting stereo and speakers" are more commonly found on the North side of the city, which is mostly black.  I'm not saying this is exclusive to this area, but is commonly associated with that culture.

Of course you didn't see a specific group mentioned.  Most material of this nature is said with a "wink, wink" instead of coming right out with it's subtle intent.

Yeah, here in STL we respectfully refer to those cars as Hoopties! 

[Bobbo]

In an effort to play the race card , you offered "observations" that indicate you associate the afore mentioned characteristics with black culture and thus revealed your own preconceptions and adherence to stereotypes.  

The race card was played from the start by naming stereotypical descriptions of cars.  I identified the racial and/or cultural target of that description from actual observation, not "preconceptions and adherence to stereotypes".  If the description included "pick up trucks with a lift kit and gun rack", what stereotype culture would you name?  Would it be "preconceptions and adherence to stereotypes" or actual observations?

In regard to your politics, I can only judge you by your posts. Despite your reoccurring claim to be a libertarian,  your consistent defense and promotion of liberal causes leads me to believe you are one.    Matthew 7:16 "By their fruit you will recognize them" ( I also recognize you fondness for scripture [ sarcasm font]) I've also taken those online tests and an come up as a libertarian. A left leaning libertarian in fact.  Judging from what you have posted you are most certainly to the left of me.

In this very thread I gave several suggestions that are quite opposite of a Liberal viewpoint.  Please reread the thread and find them!

[Bobbo]

I don't know about your neck of the woods, but in Eastern MO cars with "22 inch rims and low profile tires and your blasting stereo and speakers" are more commonly found on the North side of the city, which is mostly black.  I'm not saying this is exclusive to this area, but is commonly associated with that culture.

Have you seen teenagers lately?  I've seen TONS of kids with the 20" "Blades" and low profiles, plus "Boom Boom" music rattling the trunk... NOT all black.  

Caucasian... Asian... Mexican... You name it... they ALL do it.  

15 years ago, I'd have said you were right, but not now-a-days.  

That's why I said "...are more commonly found on the North side of the city, which is mostly black.  I'm not saying this is exclusive to this area, but is commonly associated with that culture"

If you believe the author of this email is suggesting that teenagers are the majority of welfare cheats, then you have lived quite a sheltered life!

[Bobbo]

Of course, when at the TANF office, NOBODY admits to having a car... when asked they say they took the bus to get there because they know the value of the car will be counted as an asset.  Then the income maintenance worker secretly follows them out of the building, watches as they jump into their car (after just saying they rode the bus) and snaps a pic of their license plate.  Then they bitch when they are denied and referred to the investigation dept.!

Then there are the complete A-holes who stroll into the TANF dept. from their expensive new car and smile and say "I don't own a car... I lease one!"  Leased cars don't count as an asset when determining eligibility!

That's the problem with creating more stringent rules for public assistance.  The cheats will find a way around the rules, and the legitimate people have to go thorough more hoops and hassles.  It's just like creating more restrictive gun laws.  The criminals will ignore them or find a way around them, and the legitimate gun owners will have to go thorough more hoops and hassles.

Whoops!  There I go again, exposing beliefs that oppose Liberal views...   

[Bobbo]

...will never happen because the government is way too liberal, political correct and elected officials are more worried about their @$$ then doing the right thing, but it was a fun post, and very true.

If this is a result of Liberal government, why wasn't it taken care of when Conservatives controlled the White House and Congress?

[PAVALKER]

I don't know about your neck of the woods, but in Eastern MO cars with "22 inch rims and low profile tires and your blasting stereo and speakers" are more commonly found on the North side of the city, which is mostly black.  I'm not saying this is exclusive to this area, but is commonly associated with that culture.

Have you seen teenagers lately?  I've seen TONS of kids with the 20" "Blades" and low profiles, plus "Boom Boom" music rattling the trunk... NOT all black.  

Caucasian... Asian... Mexican... You name it... they ALL do it.  

15 years ago, I'd have said you were right, but not now-a-days.  

I agree... thats  probably more so associated with young white kids than blacks, but I have seen em all with those wheels actually (Whites, Blacks, Hispanics, and only god knows what others).   Kid 3 doors down (he is white and over 21 years of age BTW) has an older Caprice with those 20 inch wheels, loud boom boom sound box, HID and under body lights, and some of his friends have them as well. I just came from a Car Cruise this evening, and most of those type of cars were hosted by young white men.  I honestly do not think this was aimed at any ethnic group (just the freeloaders in general) and it was interesting that you picked the ethnic group you did.  I would have thought with the "beans and rice" comment that you might have said Hispanics and Asians or something like that..... but it shows where your train of thought is aimed.   Usually, those that point something out like that are showing their own thoughts than quite possibly what was actually intended to begin with.


I think the OP did have humor intended, but as we all know... there is truth in humor and humor in truth.  And again.... I don't see one specific ethnic group being aimed at.... but if you do that is your perception and your perception is your reality.

[Bobbo]

I just came from a Car Cruise this evening, and most of those type of cars were hosted by young white men.  I honestly do not think this was aimed at any ethnic group (just the freeloaders in general) and it was interesting that you picked the ethnic group you did.  I would have thought with the "beans and rice" comment that you might have said Hispanics and Asians or something like that..... but it shows where your train of thought is aimed.

I will ask you the same question:  Are young, white teenagers generally associated with welfare fraud, public housing, and large rims with low profile tires?  If not, then why include this in the list of things denied welfare recipients?

[Trynt]

 
[/quote]
The race card was played from the start by naming stereotypical descriptions of cars.  I identified the racial and/or cultural target of that description from actual observation, not "preconceptions and adherence to stereotypes".  If the description included "pick up trucks with a lift kit and gun rack", what stereotype culture would you name?  Would it be "preconceptions and adherence to stereotypes" or actual observations?

[quote author=Trynt link=topic=30034.msg274407#


I have actually observed black people eating fried chicken. So by your logic, if I read an anecdote about someone eating fried chicken, would it be reasonable to assume the author was depicting black people?

[big d]

anvil, can you please show me where in the constitution it says that any one person has the right not to work and have some one else pay their way!!!!!!! i didnt think you could. please post facts not opinion as facts......... as a huamn you have a right to breath, not my money. if you want something go to work and earn your own money.

[Bobbo]

I have actually observed black people eating fried chicken. So by your logic, if I read an anecdote about someone eating fried chicken, would it be reasonable to assume the author was depicting black people?

Only if it included the addition of eating watermelon, and named Leroy...  A singular description is vague, but when combined with other stereotypical descriptions, it becomes clear.

I am by no means endorsing these stereotypes, but I realize they exist.

[RoadKill]

I have actually observed black people eating fried chicken. So by your logic, if I read an anecdote about someone eating fried chicken, would it be reasonable to assume the author was depicting black people?

Only if it included the addition of eating watermelon, and named Leroy...  A singular description is vague, but when combined with other stereotypical descriptions, it becomes clear.

I am by no means endorsing these stereotypes, but I realize they exist.

And you ASSUMED they were being used...you have ZERO facts to back up your assumption other than there's alot of that on "the northside " and I can assume,( with just as much justification as you have given here ) that you think it's the ghetto part of town

[Bobbo]

I have actually observed black people eating fried chicken. So by your logic, if I read an anecdote about someone eating fried chicken, would it be reasonable to assume the author was depicting black people?

Only if it included the addition of eating watermelon, and named Leroy...  A singular description is vague, but when combined with other stereotypical descriptions, it becomes clear.

I am by no means endorsing these stereotypes, but I realize they exist.

And you ASSUMED they were being used...you have ZERO facts to back up your assumption other than there's alot of that on "the northside " and I can assume,( with just as much justification as you have given here ) that you think it's the ghetto part of town

The OP named several things, that by themselves, are vague, but when accumulated become more focused.  Welfare cheats, out of wedlock births, public housing, and big rims.  What do these descriptions mean to you in the aggregate?