Silver brazing Questions...

[CajunRider]

OK you mighty mechanical gurus... help is needed in the form of answers!!! 

Oh yeah... PRETTY PLEASE!!!    

So I keep coming up with these crazy ideas that I wanna try, but I can't weld.  Nor do I want to spend hundreds of $$$ to build a setup for it, and screw everything up!!!    

I came across a post on another board about "Silver Brazing".  If I were to use regular steel and silver braze it, how strong of a joint would this make???  I'd imagine welding is stronger, but is there any strength in brazing that can withstand the vibration of road travel?  Can it hold weight? 

Two thoughts come to mind... saddle bag mounts and head light brackets... would brazing work, or should I find someone to teach me to weld first?

[Gear Jammer]

I bet "Hotglue 43" can answer your question,, send Mark a PM 

[5_19]

Consider brazing and soldering to be adhesives.  The braze material bonds to the items to be joined, but unlike welding, the items are not joined together themselves.  Those old British motorcycles had brazed-together frames, and the assembly was specifically designed around the process.

For the most part, soldering and brazing are used where the application is not structural.  Typically not used for modern motorcycle components except small things like the internal parts of a speedo. 

Bottom line is if you see plans for an item and it shows "weld here", you can't substitute a braze joint and expect the same results.

I agree 100%.  A brazed joint could be used for what you are trying to do, however it should be different in design. Welding or bolting would be better.

[Ricky-D]

Properly prepared surfaces can be brazed and give excellent results, close to welding.

The secret is the preparation of the pieces to be brazed.

Brazed assemblies can withstand any heat your bike could experience, for instance the exhaust, and depending upon your ability will be able to withstand any vibration that will ever be experienced by your bike in the same manner.

Remember, it all in the preparation!

***

[Jess Tolbirt]

Silver soldering or brazing does not take the place of welding,,,,
silver solder is mainly used in refrigeration lines made of steel... brazing is used where expansion comes into the picture,, like in cast iron applications,,,welding is fusing two metals together,,

[RP#62]

It also depends on the contact area.  Silver solder as we always referred to is as works pretty good if there's a lot of contact area. Not so good on a butt joint.  A lot of high pressure fittings are silver soldered.
-RP

[Farther]

In my youth silver solder was used in high end chrome moly bicycle frames.

[Walküre]

brazing is "basically" only effective if the parts strength come from design, NOT the brazing itself. Best way is to picture it - imagine it as pvc pipe. When you put the piece of pipe, in the fitting, the pipe fits tightly into the fitting, and it's basically strong enough to be a joint in and of itself. However, it doesn't take much to pull it apart, unless you cement it together with PVC cement. THAT is what brazing is, and what was described early in the thread. The bike frames that were brazed, were built like that - tube and socket, for the strength, and the brazing to hold it all together. Brazing can also be strong, if used on over-lapped joints. Almost like welding. You do have to cut holes in one side, and braze in the holes.

You would be MUCH better served, by finding someone to teach you how to weld - it's really not too hard, and a little practice goes a long ways. I have found more people have trouble, setting the welder up correctly, than actual welding, on a flat, horizontal surface. Once you get to where you are welding in a LOT of different positions - vertical up, vertical down, overhead, etc - then it gets more difficult. But for MOST welding, as you mentioned, you can position the work itself to eliminate the odd positions.

Often, there's a vocational college, or equivalent, nearby that might have industrial classes on welding. I learned to weld from two nuclear-certified welders, that had gone to welding classes at the junior college, which led to them working and San Onofre Nuclear Power Plant. Man, THEY were good!!!

[RonW]

To my knowledge, the carbide teeth on circular saw blades are soldered (brazed?) to the edges and obviously the joints have proven durable under quite demanding circumstances. Dunno whether they use specialized equipment for it though.

[CajunRider]

Thanks to all for the good info!!! 

Sounds like some of the project can be brazed, but some of it's going to have to be welded (or designed differently). 

Thanks again!!