Why Darkside?

[YoungPUP]

Ok I saw a smiley with a stick approaching a hornets nest... That fits this topic. Why the darkside? Tire wear? Just want to be different? i'm running a new E3 so i'm good for a bit, but i'm curious as to what you guys know that I dont. ( insert smiley woth stick and hornets nest again) 

[vanagon40]

Daniel Meyer pretty much summed it up for me.

http://lifeisaroad.com/stories/2004/10/27/theDarkSide.html

[Momz]

I can't speak for everyone here, but most MC rear tires I've tried couldn't go past 10K miles and cost a small fortune to replace.

I have a CT on my I/S and it makes sense on a heavyly loaded, two up Highway machine. Better ride, better wet braking and with the right tire and pressure it handles great (but you will realize that you are counterstreering in the curves).

A lot of Darksiders use the GY Assurance Triple Tread, but I'm happy using a Kelly Springfield Fierce.

[gordonv]

How to keep it simple? I haven't ridden a CT yet on the bike, but I'm starting to look for one on my ACE T.

Why I want to go to a CT?

MC
mounted on my ACE T; $460 CAD installed ($260 for the tire)
10K-15K miles

CT
cost; $100-$200 (I found the GYTT at Sears once for $109 USD)
mounted; ($ unknown) I did it myself.
expected life; 30K-50K miles
handling; different (like a dirt bike is different from a cruiser, from a sport bike, from a etc..)
reports of better grip to the road, better stopping, better handling in the rain, better .. etc.. compared to a MC tire.

For me, it's a no brainer. I don't believe that a 10-20-30 year old MC tire design, is better than a CT design that is newer and better thought out. Different rubber compounds, good tread patterns, and the like.

Summary $ wise.

CT installed, $200, 3x life compared to MC tire
MC tire, $260 x 3 = $780.

$200 or $780? Hummmm, that's really a hard decision.

[PhredValk]

The handling is neutral for me. I've only put 13k miles or so on an E3 on this bike, and I find I'm more comfortable on the Falken. I have yet to break traction on accel or braking, dry or wet with the CT. It's a softer ride, and considerably quieter (though those with performance exhaust won't notice). It kicks ass in the rain, and some in my GWRRA group have followed me and say they can see the huge contact patch in curves.

A rear Metz for my GL1100 was $260, the Falken was $119 delivered and $30. to install. I expect 30K+ from the Falken, rather than the 18K or so for the E3 it came with.

Better braking, better handling (in my opinion) better in the rain, way cheaper and better expected milage. And even the crotch rocket guys at Tim Hortons come over and comment on it's coolness!
Fred.

[bigguy]

I absolutely love the way my Bike handles with the CT. The disclaimer here is that I usually ride two-up with my wife, and we've almost always got something heavy on the trunk rack. (Cooler with drinks and snacks.) The saddle bags and trunk will be filled with the 3 or 4 other jackets she's brought along as well as an extra pair of boots or shoes.
I've tried in the past to verbalize the difference and have difficulty. Basically, the bike just feels more stable to me. It's like the back tire has a better grip on the road, giving me a more worry free ride. I'm able to relax more, because it just feels safer.

[old2soon]

Every thing every one said before. Unless your smokin joe or in his class you really spend a lot of time vertical. Think about it BEFORE any of ya'll jump on me. I do have my fair share of twistys down here and i like the way my bike feels with the c/t. (General ultimax h p 205-60-16 at 36 P S I and metz 880 up front at 42 P S I) Been in the rain on the gravel on the Interstates on the back roads. Took me all of 15-20 miles to get used to it. Yes-it's a little different-but so are our valks. That car tire B T W was delivered to my front door for $99.00. The counter steer is a non issue I M H O. And maybe just me-but the ride i get over all seems to me to be a lot better. Yup it be different. I've posted before about other riders telling me it CAN'T work-then i look em in the eye and ask em-how in the h-ll do you think i GOT here?? Look at it this way-iffin you go d/s and don't like it-selling it probably won't be to difficult. And if you do-ya gotta buy your own cookie. RIDE SAFE.

[John Schmidt]

And FWIW....car tires on bikes aren't a new concept. When I was a kid(you know, teenager with all the answers and didn't even know the questions) we used whatever we could find to mount on our rides. Most often, it was a closely matched(size wise) tire we picked up at the local car graveyard. You could get a decent one for a buck, sometimes less depending on how the junkyard dealer felt that day. So, imagine and old HD with unmatched car tires front and rear, tread was flat across and the shoulders were sharp. Nothing like today's c/t's which have a more rounded profile. We never thought anything of it, all we knew was we had a good tire that fit and were back on the road again, ready for that hot Saturday night date. And believe me, in high school you did NOT want to have a bike without a place for sweetcheeks to ride in back. As a side note, I made mine a bit smaller and mounted it closer to the rider's seat. After all, they needed to be able to hang on and the backrest it provided beats anything I've had since.

Seriously, handling becomes a non-issue, but your stopping power is greatly increased. That has saved my hide a couple times in heavy traffic, the rear doesn't want to skid sideways out from under you so the danger of a high-side tumble is less. The c/t just seems to squat and grab....both for stopping and acceleration. Normal hard accel. I have yet to break mine loose, but when you shift hard it will throw you back against a backrest so be sure to hang on.

[Fudd]

Check out this video from Dag1520.

VALKYRIE DARKSIDE VIDEO	powered by Aeva

As you can see there is still plenty of contact surface, even in turns.   How much rubber do you think is touching the road on a motorcycle tire?

Even if the car tire didn't last at least 3 times as long as a motorcycle tire, I'd still use one for the additional bite on the road.

Now, one difference that some people put in the negative column, is the car tire wants to travel down hill laterally on roads that have indentions where heavy vehicles have put tire grooves in the asphalt.  We in Louisiana, sometimes have unstable subsoil under the roadway that allows wavey cross sections.  The effect on car tires is more pronounced than on motorcycle tires.

Not that big of a deal,  If you are watching the road, it's easy to predict and adjust.

Of the 5 Valks in my area that I ride with, 4 are darkside.  If it's the same in your area, I'm sure there is someone that would let you try their bike, so you can make a more informed decision for yourself.

[Jabba]

I have Non-Motorcycle Specific Tires on both my valks.  They are different.  I run 32 PSI in the Falken, and ride 1-up.  I run 41 PSI in the Altimax on the IS and ride 2-up.

I will not claim they OUTperform MC tires.  But they are not slouches, and I ran with Joe and T-Bird a little at IZ XI.  I am sure they were loafing, but the SO told me she was wrooied that HER feet were going to drag a couple times.

$100 vs $300 and 20K vs 8K miles.  I am a NMST advocate.

Jabba

[fudgie]

I got tired of spend $250 every spring for a 200 mm Metzler.

Better handling, stopping, and all over ride. Alot more secure then a mc tire. 3rd summer (20K) and no signs of wear. Plus when you lay 20' tracks across a intersection it dont get squirrly. 

[Jabba]

Call around some independent MC shops.  I know of at LEAST 2 in Indy that will do it.

Or do them yourself.  It's not impossible.  I wrestled with one for 90 minutes once... JUST to prove I could!  If you had a buddy that time would be cut to 15 minutes I'd bet.

Cash speaks loudly too.  No paper work, and $30 usually will get you somewhere.

Jabba

[Jess from VA]

If you can't find anyone to do it, go back to a bike shop (with bike tire machine) and offer them a written waiver of liability (that's what makes them Nervous Nellies). Keep a copy, and give them one. 

Just fill in the blanks.  You waive liability for any change in handling characteristics and any accident, personal injury or property damage directly caused by operating with a car tire.  (Do not wave liability for damage to your wheel while mounting...... and write that in).  You can call around with an offer of a waiver, or go in with one already prepared.

Didn't need one for car tire mount, but have used several over the years to get what I wanted.

http://www.sampleforms.org/general-liability-waiver-form.html

These waivers are not always bulletproof, but you don't tell them that. 

[Momz]

I have a long time riding bud that has a GL1800 and was a GWRRA member until he went to the darkside.
The Chapter Leader and Safety Officer told him to go back to a M/C tire or risk being asked to never ride with that chapter again.
He tried to explain his point, but they were not hearing any of this heresy.
He left and never looked back. Thank God the VRCC is a far more tolerant group.

[sugerbear]

ain't NOTHIN like first hand experience!!

[old2soon]

I was looking at the G W R R A down here and went to one meeting they had at a local truck stop/resturant. One or two of the wives were VERY vocal about NOT wanting to eat in a truckstop again any time soon.  Figured out real quick they were more interested in going to the casinos and REAL (read expensive ) good motels as long as there was a REAL good resturant close. Actually it was two meetings for me-first and last. I realize they all (at least i hope not ) aren't like that but it were enough to put me off my game. RIDE SAFE.

[Fudd]

I have a long time riding bud that has a GL1800 and was a GWRRA member until he went to the darkside.
The Chapter Leader and Safety Officer told him to go back to a M/C tire or risk being asked to never ride with that chapter again.
He tried to explain his point, but they were not hearing any of this heresy.
He left and never looked back. Thank God the VRCC is a far more tolerant group.

I can see their point.  Lets say your friend is at the front of the pack and a situation arises calling for a emergency stop.  All the rest of the riders would run into the back of him because of his unfair braking advantage.
 

These GWRRA leaders should become politicians.  Washington is full of people who know nothing about what they're talking about making decisions for the rest of us.

[YoungPUP]

Thankyou all Very much. It has become suddenly obvious to me that when my current E3 dies, that i'll be in the market for a car tire. I see falkens are popular.

[RP#62]

I have a long time riding bud that has a GL1800 and was a GWRRA member until he went to the darkside.
The Chapter Leader and Safety Officer told him to go back to a M/C tire or risk being asked to never ride with that chapter again.
He tried to explain his point, but they were not hearing any of this heresy.
He left and never looked back. Thank God the VRCC is a far more tolerant group.

Nothing against GWRRA, everybody's entitled to do their own thing, but its that mind set that is partially responsible anyway for there being a VRCC.
-RP

[sugerbear]

Thankyou all Very much. It has become suddenly obvious to me that when my current E3 dies, that i'll be in the market for a car tire. I see falkens are popular.

just look for a symetrical tread pattern. the falken 512 is, but hard to find. the 912 isn't

[Mr. Nuts]

What's the magic words used to get tire shops or MC shops to mount a CT on a wheel?
Tried 3 diff places and all said no way.

Little white lies work. Tell them its for your Trike.

[X Ring]

Thankyou all Very much. It has become suddenly obvious to me that when my current E3 dies, that i'll be in the market for a car tire. I see falkens are popular.

just look for a symetrical tread pattern. the falken 512 is, but hard to find. the 912 isn't

Found mine at Discounttire.com

[PhredValk]

My GWRRA group is OK with it. Several have asked me about it (I've seen GL1500 and 1800 wings with them), and one of our members and his wife both ride Bergman scooters with CTs on them.

As for mounting, try a shop that specialises in Quads, they'll put anything on a rim.

Fred.

[sugerbear]

Thankyou all Very much. It has become suddenly obvious to me that when my current E3 dies, that i'll be in the market for a car tire. I see falkens are popular.

just look for a symetrical tread pattern. the falken 512 is, but hard to find. the 912 isn't



[/quote

Found mine at Discounttire.com

THANKS, really liked my first one, but couldn't find it anywhere.
i'll get one one order

[2qmedic]

I don't see going back to a motorcycle tire, I love my GGTT. Currently pushing the 30,000 mile mark and got a lot of life left!!!

I would like to purchase a ST1300 some day...but haven't seen if they can accept a CT???
That would be a bummer...

[MP]

What's the magic words used to get tire shops or MC shops to mount a CT on a wheel?
Tried 3 diff places and all said no way.

My Honda dealer does it for $25

1.  Tell them you have made a trailer using the bike wheel, and want to go to a CT.
2.  Same thing with a trike story.
3.  You put a sidecar on, and it is the suggested tire, which is true, as I have a sidecar myself!

MP

[Jabba]

just look for a symetrical tread pattern. the falken 512 is, but hard to find. the 912 isn't

I have an assymetrical tread patter Falken on my Standard.  I didn't realize it until after it was done.  It IS a directional tire.  I can detect NO difference in wear or traction.  It annoys me that it's assymetrical.  I will replace it with one that IS symmetrical. 



Jabba

[Gangman036]

Local, privately operated HD custom shops........two in my area that will for $30.00.
One says he has done a thousand of them.......other one said he would when I needed it.....no prob.

[Fudd]

just look for a symetrical tread pattern. the falken 512 is, but hard to find. the 912 isn't

I have an assymetrical tread patter Falken on my Standard.  I didn't realize it until after it was done.  It IS a directional tire.  I can detect NO difference in wear or traction.  It annoys me that it's assymetrical.  I will replace it with one that IS symmetrical.  



Jabba

O my God

An asymetrical tread.  Maybe THAT'S the one with the flaming death issue.

I have one too.  It has already proven its worth in a tight situation.  I also am gonna change mine out.  But that will be in another 30k miles or so.

[Jabba]

O my God

An asymetrical tread.  Maybe THAT'S the one with the flaming death issue.

I have one too.  It has already proven its worth in a tight situation.  I also am gonna change mine out.  But that will be in another 30k miles or so.

Right... I have about 7K on that tire.  It'll be a while before I replace it.  It doesn't bother me THAT much!   

Hell, I might leave it like that just for spite.   

Jabba

[rich_kildow]

I'm looking at going to a CT since my Dunlop E3's are getting down there.  The bike came with an extra set of E3's that I might use up if I can't sell them.

I just got off the phone with progressive to make sure they weren't going to burn me at the stake for changing to a CT and they said there is nothing wrong with it.  She didn't know that it would be a direct fit and even pointed out that my accessory coverage would cover any mods I needed to do to make it fit. 

[YoungPUP]

Whats the reason for a symetrical vs asymetrical? handling issues I'd assume?

[X Ring]

Whats the reason for a symetrical vs asymetrical? handling issues I'd assume?

Yes, so the tire doesn't react to road surface irregularities on one side of the tire different than it does on the other; however, I know people running asymmetric tires that  don't seem to be bothered by it.

Marty

[bigguy]

just look for a symetrical tread pattern. the falken 512 is, but hard to find. the 912 isn't

I have an assymetrical tread patter Falken on my Standard.  I didn't realize it until after it was done.  It IS a directional tire.  I can detect NO difference in wear or traction.  It annoys me that it's assymetrical.  I will replace it with one that IS symmetrical. 



Jabba

Bullgoose has an assymetical tire as well. I noticed it when he came through Texarkana on his way to Inzane. He says it rides just fine.

[Walküre]

Fred.

My gawd, man!! Don't you own a hose and a bucket??

[PhredValk]

Daniel Meyer is my hero...

Actually, that's mostly over winter crud. I did the tire before my first ride this spring, and it got cleaned up before the bags went back on.
Fred.

[Stormrider65]

I went darkside a couple of months ago.  I love it.  It seems to handle a bit better, but it does tend to follow grooves and off camber roads.  Nothing too serious though.  You just gotta pay closer attention to how ya ride.  I will probably never go back to regular scooter tires.

Walt

[2qmedic]

 
That's what I say

[rodeo1]

geez, both of my tires are car tires and love em. ???