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BradValk48237
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« on: August 01, 2011, 02:06:12 PM » |
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Okay all, know that I will have to pull the tank, but want to ask the questions to make sure I might have any parts necessary before I do...
What happened was, I left out of the Barn on the Interstate to head up north to Bellaire via Lansing MI. I had 3 bars showing and felt that was enough to git me down the road a bit before getting gas. I have run the tank down to 1 bar showing and have not had to hit reserve.
That being said, as I was getting low, I came to a big hill on IS 96 and the bike started to lose power....I might have not noticed it at first, but at the top of the hill I was running out of gas...
No big deal... just switch to reserve.. which I did. Did not help... Bike kept sputtering and then died... I coasted to a stop.. near an exit..... with no gas station. Muther F(*&^*&*...
SO I just sat a minute and prayed (PEASE DON'T LET THIS HAPPEN!!!!)... and then hit the starter.. Whew!! She started and got me down the road to next exit and fuel. Problem was, I filled up to the top the way I always do and only put in 5.1 Gallons! Still should be at least 1.5 Gallons left....Hmmmm Chalked it up to a fluke and got goin.
SO I kept going and kept an eye on it...
Later, going up US 27 near Harrison, same thing happened, 2 bars left on the gauge, bike sputtered, switched to reserve and no go.... motor died and this time I got lucky and was able to coast downhill on the exit. FIlled up to top and only used 4.9 Gal. !!! She fired right up and from then on I didn't go more than 150-160 miles without filling up. no problems and it did not happen again.
SO.. Im thinking the screen may be clogged and will order a new one. I have already replaced the cover set and I don't think that was the problem..... Gas gauge is working, because both times it showed gas in the tank, and the fuel put in reflected that.
Funny thing is, Both times I was at 2 bars AND going up steep hills when it happened. And I want to be able to use all the fuel in the tank if I need to......
Don't see anything in the tank with flashlight.....
Now that you've read my dissertation.....
ANY Other Thoughts?????????
Brad
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« Last Edit: August 15, 2011, 03:03:26 PM by BradValk48237 »
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X Ring
Member
Posts: 3626
VRCC #27389, VRCCDS #204
The Landmass Between Mobile And New Orleans
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« Reply #1 on: August 01, 2011, 02:43:10 PM » |
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It is very possible your screen is clogged. What is also possible is your petcock is malfunctioning due to a buildup of varnish and other crap either plugging the reserve opening of the petcock tube in the tank or in the petcock switching area itself.
Another thing you may consider is how often do you run off the reserve to get that crap out of the tank. Remember, ethanol breaks down into gas (on top), alcohol (middle layer) and absorbed water and condensation (bottom layer). If you never run off the reserve every few tankfuls then you're in trouble when you need reserve.
Marty
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People are more passionately opposed to wearing fur than leather because it's safer to harass rich women than bikers.  |
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gordonv
Member
Posts: 5763
VRCC # 31419
Richmond BC
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« Reply #2 on: August 01, 2011, 03:30:56 PM » |
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+1 on the above. It can only be one of 2 things. Either the reserve portion in the tank is not feeding (clogged), or the petcock is not switching to reserve. Remember, ethanol breaks down into gas (on top), alcohol (middle layer) and absorbed water and condensation (bottom layer). Marty
Is this the issue everyone complains about the ethanol fuel for? |
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1999 Black with custom paint IS   |
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X Ring
Member
Posts: 3626
VRCC #27389, VRCCDS #204
The Landmass Between Mobile And New Orleans
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« Reply #3 on: August 01, 2011, 04:22:34 PM » |
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+1 on the above. It can only be one of 2 things. Either the reserve portion in the tank is not feeding (clogged), or the petcock is not switching to reserve. Remember, ethanol breaks down into gas (on top), alcohol (middle layer) and absorbed water and condensation (bottom layer). Marty
Is this the issue everyone complains about the ethanol fuel for? Part of it. The breakdown of ethanol causes performance problems. The alcohol is a solvent that attacks the fuel system releasing built up deposits. That would be a good thing if it was a gradual release but it isn't. The sudden release plugs up jets, fuel injectors and fuel filters. Another problems is ethanol has less btus per gallon than gas does so you have to open the throttle more for the speed you want. Which means decreased fuel economy. Marty |
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People are more passionately opposed to wearing fur than leather because it's safer to harass rich women than bikers. |
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Daniel Meyer
Member
Posts: 5493
Author. Adventurer. Electrician.
The State of confusion.
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« Reply #4 on: August 01, 2011, 04:37:09 PM » |
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As said above, check the petcock for proper operation, vacuum leakdown, and check the screen.
Also inspect your tank vent.
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CUAgain, Daniel Meyer  |
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sandy
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« Reply #5 on: August 01, 2011, 04:55:01 PM » |
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Sounds like the classic petcock cover set needs replacing and/or the vacuum line from #6 to the petcock. I'd do both.
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BradValk48237
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« Reply #6 on: August 01, 2011, 07:03:00 PM » |
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Thanks all
I did just do the cover set last year, ANd it runs fun down to near reserve.... If it was the petcock or the vacuum, seems like it would be trouble all the time or just not work
I will pull the tank and look at the screen and petcock while Im at it
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valkyriemc
Member
Posts: 392
2000 blu/slvr Interstate, 2018 Ultra Limited
NE Florida
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« Reply #7 on: August 02, 2011, 03:59:40 AM » |
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My 2K I/S was doing about the same thing a few months ago, losing power at 70 with two bars showing on the gas gauge. I would reach down and rotate the p/c knob back and forth thru its range a few times landing on run/on position. That would restore normal operation for the time being. And that was the last straw that pushed me to a pingel p/c. G/L.
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Veteran USN '70-'76
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Hoser
Member
Posts: 5844
child of the sixties VRCC 17899
Auburn, Kansas
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« Reply #8 on: August 02, 2011, 05:37:44 AM » |
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I replaced my petcock for 2 reasons, diaphram failure and I needed a place to mount my honker! I can easily reach the pingle off on control with my left hand while riding.  hoser  |
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I don't want a pickle, just wanna ride my motor sickle  [img width=300 height=233]http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/ |
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Black Dog
Member
Posts: 2606
VRCC # 7111
Merton Wisconsin 53029
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« Reply #9 on: August 02, 2011, 05:56:09 AM » |
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Any chance you have one of 'Red Eyes' quick disconnects on your fuel line? I've got one on my Valk, and a similar situation has happened to me, but only twice, and both while running hard into a very stiff head wind (sorta like your up hill run). I believe I've heard of others having the same issue with the quick disconnect.
Good luck, and keep us posted on what ya find.
Black Dog
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Just when the highway straightened out for a mile And I was thinkin' I'd just cruise for a while A fork in the road brought a new episode Don't you know... Conform, go crazy, or ride a motorcycle...  |
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BradValk48237
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« Reply #10 on: August 02, 2011, 05:35:35 PM » |
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Stock fuel line.... Petcock works (I know because I have forgot to turn it off when starting the bike... dies and then goes when I finally turn it to on)... tank was clean and rust free when I pulled it last time to replace petcock cover set. Sooooooo
Will have to see when I pull the Tank.
B
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X Ring
Member
Posts: 3626
VRCC #27389, VRCCDS #204
The Landmass Between Mobile And New Orleans
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« Reply #11 on: August 02, 2011, 10:00:15 PM » |
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Just cause you rebuilt the petcock last year doesn't mean it's not failing now.
Marty
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People are more passionately opposed to wearing fur than leather because it's safer to harass rich women than bikers. |
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MP
Member
Posts: 5532
1997 Std Valkyrie and 2001 red/blk I/S w/sidecar
North Dakota
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« Reply #12 on: August 03, 2011, 01:50:52 PM » |
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Just cause you rebuilt the petcock last year doesn't mean it's not failing now.
Marty
+1. Nitro replaced one last september, and it failed again in Maggie Valley this summer. The diaphram had a small pinhole in it. The symptoms are classic petcock failure. Take the vac line off #6 cylinder, rear on the left. It is long enough you can reach. Suck on it, and stick your tongue on it, like you did with a straw as a kid. It should hold vacuum, ie tongue stick to it, for at least 30 seconds. Any less, and you are leaking in the diaphram. Another possiblity is the hose itself has a leak. MP |
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 "Ridin' with Cycho" |
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BradValk48237
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« Reply #13 on: August 03, 2011, 02:07:32 PM » |
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I will check the petcock... have done it exactly as you described... just not yet.
Problem that it only lost fuel when the tank was low... as long as I didn't get below 2 bars/160 miles no problems in 600 miles... 200 miles Friday, 200 Saturday, and 200 miles home on this last sunday from Grayling ( I was only at Inzane for a couple of hours-long story)... It only did it when I left out on Thurs to head up that way- when the tank got below 2 bars. Its seems like if it was the petcock, I would have symptoms all along??????
I will be pulling the tank to check all of the above... Waiting for screen and new COver set to get here.... Ordered the cover set just in case and to have a spare if its not the petcok.
Any other tips would be appreciated and thank for those given. Will post follow up once I track it down.
B
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MP
Member
Posts: 5532
1997 Std Valkyrie and 2001 red/blk I/S w/sidecar
North Dakota
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« Reply #14 on: August 03, 2011, 02:14:09 PM » |
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I will check the petcock... have done it exactly as you described... just not yet.
Problem that it only lost fuel when the tank was low... as long as I didn't get below 2 bars/160 miles no problems in 600 miles... 200 miles Friday, 200 Saturday, and 200 miles home on this last sunday from Grayling ( I was only at Inzane for a couple of hours-long story)... It only did it when I left out on Thurs to head up that way- when the tank got below 2 bars. Its seems like if it was the petcock, I would have symptoms all along??????
I will be pulling the tank to check all of the above... Waiting for screen and new COver set to get here.... Ordered the cover set just in case and to have a spare if its not the petcok.
Any other tips would be appreciated and thank for those given. Will post follow up once I track it down.
B
The running out at low fuel is a classic case. The weight of a full tank keeps the fuel flowing, even with reduced vacuum. But, as the tank empties, the reduced vacuum no longer can open the valve. If the hole in the rubber is larger, then it will not flow at all. MP |
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"Ridin' with Cycho" |
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BradValk48237
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« Reply #15 on: August 03, 2011, 02:22:08 PM » |
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Ahhhhh... I see... I didn't see that in all the posts I have read on this site..... LOTS of em
Thanks for the tip...
Maybe Pingle is the way........ Its funny, I had an 85 Wing with basically the same setup and never had a problem(only problem was when I did on occasion turn it off and forgot to turn back on. 99% I never turned it)... I wonder if a petcock from an older wing or 1500 might work... I do still want to have Vac operated one.....
well Already have the cover set on the way........ One more time.....
Brad
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SNOFOOL
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« Reply #16 on: August 04, 2011, 05:18:55 AM » |
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Had the exact same problem, turned out being the petcock diapham was bad. During increased throttle there is less vacuum to open the petcock & fuel consumptoin is increased.
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Ricky-D
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« Reply #17 on: August 04, 2011, 08:46:45 AM » |
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With not trying to hijack the thread: What to do? Keep the tank full and sealed, and ride often. Water in motorcycle gas is typically a result of condensation. Bad gas from the pump? That's rare. Last time I had that happen was 1974. Bad gas is not the issue but rather water in the gas. Water in the gas is always a problem starting at the gas station. This is where the condensation happens. The tankers drain from the bottom of their supply so any water goes right to the station tank. The pumps sit off the bottom of the tanks in the gas stations expressly for that reason. Water in the gas. They use poles with a paste smeared on the bottom to check the tanks to determine exactly how much water is in the tanks buried in the ground. Water is always present and is always a problem. Ethanol in gas has only exacerbated the problem. Drain a little gas from your carburetors into a glass and you will see the products of the water in the gas. Draining a little gas from the carburetors is always a good practice to do occasionally. *** |
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2000_Valkyrie_Interstate
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BradValk48237
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« Reply #18 on: August 15, 2011, 03:06:31 PM » |
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Update here.... Pulled the vac line from #6.... sucked on it and would get no vacuum. In fact I could just get air to pull thru it as fast as I could draw breath. Pulled the line off and it will hold vacuum by itself.....
So I would think that I will have to install new cover set I ordered...
Will be doing desmog while I have the tank off.
Brad
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Farther
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« Reply #19 on: August 15, 2011, 04:02:23 PM » |
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In modern fuel stations with high through-put there is little concern with water in the fuel. Modern stations use automatic tank gauging and continious electronic monitoring. Since the introduction of ethanol, water in the bottom of the tank never shows up unless there is a significant failure in the UST system or has extremely low through-put. You might see a tech. using paste on a stick but only for diagnosing a problem or on a very old UST system that probably is in failure. If you see somesone sticking a tank, other than a delivery driver, that is a station to stay away from. Even delivery drivers use the automatic tank guaging to determine the amount of fuel capacity of the tanks.
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Thanks,
~Farther
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Ricky-D
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« Reply #20 on: August 16, 2011, 08:02:09 AM » |
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Farther, although I don't disagree with you, I want to make the point that UST systems are mainly concerned with leakage from the underground tanks so as to avoid contaminating the ground and the accompanying possibility of contaminating the aquifer.
Water in gas is simply considered a nuisance by most oil and gas companies.
Ethanol in gasoline has a very little tolerance to accept additional water and once that limit is reached the water will start to settle out in the bottom of the tanks. This is where the interest of the authorities is since water in the old style underground steel tanks cause corrosion and eventually the tanks start to leak.
Which leads me to my final point which is water in gasoline (whether ethanol or not) breeds organisms such as mold and fungus which is probably the main culprit in the problems with Valkyrie carburetors such as clogged jets and malfunctioning metering systems.
***
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2000_Valkyrie_Interstate
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BradValk48237
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« Reply #21 on: August 22, 2011, 07:35:08 PM » |
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Well Thanks to all who said "petcock and got me to order the cover set from HDL for $28 plus
Got the parts today and got busy. Was going to desmog at the same time, but nobody had 14 mm freeze plugs... 3 different stores and all had to order and none of what they had were 14 mm..... all 13.79 mm or 14.26 mm..... i guess I;ll try the 13.79 ish ones when I do it this winter....
ANNNNyway...... Got the tank off... didn't get enough gas out and when I had the tank on the bench and on its nose I started to smell gas... then I saw it puddling on the bench.... D'oh!!!! emptied the rest into the can on got the petcock off..... Im surprised the ole' girl didn't get pregnant with the size of the hole in her diaphragm!!!!!!
Replaced cover set and tested it with and without gas...... More gas on the floor..... worked fine.
Put it all back together and went for a ride after letting it run for a bit to see if the gas would cut off, it did. What do ya know...no more decel pop, gas smell, etc., and ran great. The hole in the diaphragm was also my vacuum leak. Don't know how the bike even got gas with all the air that was pulled thru!
Long story longer...... why do I have to buy a whole cover set when only the diaphragm I replaced 2 years ago was bad (maybe bad installation?) the rest of the parts were in great shape.
Lesson? Extra cover set in the saddlebags..... maybe pingle in the future...... if it happens again.
Brad
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Skinhead
Member
Posts: 8731
J. A. B. O. A.
Troy, MI
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« Reply #22 on: August 23, 2011, 04:36:45 AM » |
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get 9/16th freeze plugs, everyone has them, used them on 4 desmogs, no problems.
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 Troy, MI |
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Daniel Meyer
Member
Posts: 5493
Author. Adventurer. Electrician.
The State of confusion.
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« Reply #23 on: August 23, 2011, 06:06:05 AM » |
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They sell it as a set because there is a dampener/orifice in the cover part that can be the problem as well.
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CUAgain, Daniel Meyer |
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BradValk48237
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« Reply #24 on: August 23, 2011, 07:10:25 AM » |
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Skin,
What auto supply had them in stock?
Not Napa and O'Riely by me.......
How long does it take?
Brad
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