triple A rating gone, congrats Mr. Prez ( I'm trying to cut down, really I am)

[musclehead]

yeah I know the left is going to blame repubs/Tea party, let'em. there is enough people now paying attention to what's going on to counter the spin. this was about as much of a surprise as the stock market dive, Hannity has been predicting this for a couple of weeks. I heard something about the S&P report trying to lay the blame on the contentious nature of congress ( let me translate, the repubs need to get their confrence in line, its all the tea party's fault). I thought Moody's report was basing the downgrade on the amount of debt we carry, which is what the S&P report should reflect. i wonder why it doesn't hmmm. 

I thought the prez said the increase was to cover debt we already had, so why did we incur the biggest one day jump in debt in our history? we didn't even get a kiss first.

Washington Times:

U.S. debt shot up $239 billion on Tuesday — the largest one-day bump in history — as the government flexed the new borrowing room it earned in this week’s debt-limit increase deal.

The debt subject to the statutory limit shot way past the old cap of $14.294 trillion to hit $14.532 trillion on Tuesday, according to the latest the Treasury Department figures, which are released on the next business day.

That increase puts the government already remarkably close to the new debt limit of $14.694, which means one day’s new borrowing ate up 60 percent of the $400 billion in space Congress granted the president this week.
[...]
The previous one-day record debt increase was $186 billion, set on June 30, 2009.

this down grade may or may not adversely affect the markets, some times enough investors know bad news is coming that when it breaks all they do is yawn. really hard to say, it's a system that 'buys on the rumor and sells on the news' if I could predict it I wouldn't be typing to ya'll right now

if any cuts actually occur I'll go out on a limb here and say there will be an increase in unemployment as laid off government employees get in line for benefits. most of us will say "about time" everywhere else the recession has been felt except in the government, which has been growing like a weed or fungus or something else equally icky

 served, waiting for return volley

[BigAl]

Well for you and I it just means a bigger chunk out our perverbial butts.

Sooner or later guess who pays.

Or does not get what we paid for.

Like Social Security.

[old2soon]

Kill em all and start over. The next ones screw up-kill em all-repeat as often as needed. Well it's time for DRASTIC measures ain't it?? RIDE SAFE.

[RoadKill]

Kill em all and start over. The next ones screw up-kill em all-repeat as often as needed. Well it's time for DRASTIC measures ain't it?? RIDE SAFE.

You are finally coming around to my way of thinkin ! 

[old2soon]

Kill em all and start over. The next ones screw up-kill em all-repeat as often as needed. Well it's time for DRASTIC measures ain't it?? RIDE SAFE.

You are finally coming around to my way of thinkin ! 

   Road Kill-keep in mind i Was in uncle sugars canoe club when L B J and Robert Strange was in charge. I've had these feelings fer a LOOOONNNNGG time. RIDE SAFE.

[Bob E.]

I thought the prez said the increase was to cover debt we already had, so why did we incur the biggest one day jump in debt in our history? we didn't even get a kiss first.

Washington Times:

U.S. debt shot up $239 billion on Tuesday — the largest one-day bump in history — as the government flexed the new borrowing room it earned in this week’s debt-limit increase deal.

The debt subject to the statutory limit shot way past the old cap of $14.294 trillion to hit $14.532 trillion on Tuesday, according to the latest the Treasury Department figures, which are released on the next business day.

Actually, if you remember, we actually hit the debt limit back in April.  Back then the Fed had said that they could use "extrordinary measures" shuffling the monies around and creative accounting to avoid default.  And they had said that those "measures" (whatever they are) would run out on Aug. 2.  Well, once the debt limit was increased, you just saw 4 months of bills get paid on one single day.  Since we've never seen the debt ceiling held hostage before, it's not surprising we've never seen that much of a jump in payment of overdue bills.  No new spending was authorized.  The Washington Times is clearly out of line with their "flexed the new borrowing room" statement.  Talk about spin!!

One thing that got totally lost in the debt ceiling debate is that the debt limit has NOTHING to do with spending.  All of this arguement should be had during the budget debate.  The debt ceiling is kind of stupid really because Congress has already passed a law (budget and continuing resolutions) appropriating this spending.  So this just says we'll pay for the spending already authorized.  It's no wonder that almost no other industrialized country has such a law.

[Traveler-MI]

What truly amazes me is that this man has been able to get almost $1 billion in contributions for his reelection.  I have to wonder if anyone has been paying attention to what he has been doing and the effect that it has had.

I for one will never forgive what was allowed to happen with GM.  They allow them to write off all their debt basically screwing any investor in the company and then handed what was left to the UAW -- who was never an investor and, on closer examination, was actually the cause of GM being broke.  Flat-out a reallocation of wealth.  Of course, that's what he is been about from day one.

So until GM or the UAW writes me a check for $10,000, to cover my losses  rest assured I will never own a single one of their products and will try to prevent anyone else from owning one either.

I do have to thank Obama for one thing.  I never considered myself rich however, as time has gone on the line being drawn at who should have their taxes increased keeps going down.  Now I find myself suddenly almost rich. 

Of course, my pay has been frozen by him for the next two years anyway.

[Bob E.]

What truly amazes me is that this man has been able to get almost $1 billion in contributions for his reelection.  I have to wonder if anyone has been paying attention to what he has been doing and the effect that it has had.

I for one will never forgive what was allowed to happen with GM.  They allow them to write off all their debt basically screwing any investor in the company and then handed what was left to the UAW -- who was never an investor and, on closer examination, was actually the cause of GM being broke.  Flat-out a reallocation of wealth.  Of course, that's what he is been about from day one.

So until GM or the UAW writes me a check for $10,000, to cover my losses  rest assured I will never own a single one of their products and will try to prevent anyone else from owning one either.

I do have to thank Obama for one thing.  I never considered myself rich however, as time has gone on the line being drawn at who should have their taxes increased keeps going down.  Now I find myself suddenly almost rich. 

Of course, my pay has been frozen by him for the next two years anyway.

Or, the other way of looking at it is that if the bailout had not been done, GM would have gone bankrupt and no longer exist at all...rather than reporting record profits as happened the last quarter.v

[BigAl]

It's Bushes Fault.

[Traveler-MI]

Or, the other way of looking at it is that if the bailout had not been done, GM would have gone bankrupt and no longer exist at all...rather than reporting record profits as happened the last quarter.v

Easy to report record profits when you have no debt and all infrasturcture is suddenly free. 

If they had gone through a real bankruptcy they would have been forced to liquidate to pay ALL  debtors, could have broken all contracts that were draining them and would have been forcred to redesign their business model. 

Trust me someone would have bought them,  the assets alone had value.

Within 10 they will be there again.

I have nothing against govt bailouts,  Chrysler took a a loan and paid it off early.  What GM got was a gift -- and some of us paid twice -- we lost what we had invested plus our tax dollars.

[DarkMeister]

Some quotes from S&P:

Standard & Poor's said the political scene was too polarized to underwrite wrenching decisions needed to nurse the economy back to health.
 
"The downgrade reflects our view that the effectiveness, stability, and predictability of American policymaking and political institutions have weakened at a time of ongoing fiscal and economic challenges," S&P said.
 
"The political brinkmanship of recent months highlights what we see as America's governance and policymaking becoming less stable, less effective, and less predictable than what we previously believed."

"Standard and Poor's said it had changed its assumptions because it believed that a repeal of tax cuts for the rich passed by ex-president George W. Bush, which could help ease the deficit, will not take place.
 
"The majority of Republicans in Congress continue to resist any measure that would raise revenues," it said.

[Traveler-MI]

The S&Papparently has its own liberal agenda.  It wants to see taxes raised.  Interesting.

I wonder what their feeling was towards more welfare, immigration, and other social issues of the day. 

[musclehead]

I thought the prez said the increase was to cover debt we already had, so why did we incur the biggest one day jump in debt in our history? we didn't even get a kiss first.

Washington Times:

U.S. debt shot up $239 billion on Tuesday — the largest one-day bump in history — as the government flexed the new borrowing room it earned in this week’s debt-limit increase deal.

The debt subject to the statutory limit shot way past the old cap of $14.294 trillion to hit $14.532 trillion on Tuesday, according to the latest the Treasury Department figures, which are released on the next business day.

Actually, if you remember, we actually hit the debt limit back in April.  Back then the Fed had said that they could use "extrordinary measures" shuffling the monies around and creative accounting to avoid default.  And they had said that those "measures" (whatever they are) would run out on Aug. 2.  Well, once the debt limit was increased, you just saw 4 months of bills get paid on one single day.  Since we've never seen the debt ceiling held hostage before, it's not surprising we've never seen that much of a jump in payment of overdue bills.  No new spending was authorized.  The Washington Times is clearly out of line with their "flexed the new borrowing room" statement.  Talk about spin!!

One thing that got totally lost in the debt ceiling debate is that the debt limit has NOTHING to do with spending.  All of this arguement should be had during the budget debate.  The debt ceiling is kind of stupid really because Congress has already passed a law (budget and continuing resolutions) appropriating this spending.  So this just says we'll pay for the spending already authorized.  It's no wonder that almost no other industrialized country has such a law.

do you think we are spending too much money? I'm pretty sure most agree we are.

and who was holding the negotiations hostage? let me guess ........

60 dems in the house vote against it and its the repubs/teaparty being 'intransigent'?

[musclehead]

What truly amazes me is that this man has been able to get almost $1 billion in contributions for his reelection.  I have to wonder if anyone has been paying attention to what he has been doing and the effect that it has had.

I for one will never forgive what was allowed to happen with GM.  They allow them to write off all their debt basically screwing any investor in the company and then handed what was left to the UAW -- who was never an investor and, on closer examination, was actually the cause of GM being broke.  Flat-out a reallocation of wealth.  Of course, that's what he is been about from day one.

So until GM or the UAW writes me a check for $10,000, to cover my losses  rest assured I will never own a single one of their products and will try to prevent anyone else from owning one either.

I do have to thank Obama for one thing.  I never considered myself rich however, as time has gone on the line being drawn at who should have their taxes increased keeps going down.  Now I find myself suddenly almost rich. 

Of course, my pay has been frozen by him for the next two years anyway.

Or, the other way of looking at it is that if the bailout had not been done, GM would have gone bankrupt and no longer exist at all...rather than reporting record profits as happened the last quarter.v

thats the way the ball bounces, build crap nobody wants and they won't beat a path to your door.

GM should have taken thier lumps reorganized in bankruptcy and tried again, too big to fail my butt!

[musclehead]

Some quotes from S&P:

Standard & Poor's said the political scene was too polarized to underwrite wrenching decisions needed to nurse the economy back to health.
 
"The downgrade reflects our view that the effectiveness, stability, and predictability of American policymaking and political institutions have weakened at a time of ongoing fiscal and economic challenges," S&P said.
 
"The political brinkmanship of recent months highlights what we see as America's governance and policymaking becoming less stable, less effective, and less predictable than what we previously believed."

"Standard and Poor's said it had changed its assumptions because it believed that a repeal of tax cuts for the rich passed by ex-president George W. Bush, which could help ease the deficit, will not take place.
 
"The majority of Republicans in Congress continue to resist any measure that would raise revenues," it said.

has any rating agency ever taken a political stance before? not that I can remember, but I don't follow rating agencies like a groupie.

[big d]

in reguards to raising the debt limit the presiddent can raise it without congress. the only problem for him is that he then has no authority to spend any money which is why obama would not do it. now that congress voted to raise the debt ceiling he can still spend money.

[Varmintmist]

"S&P said that unless an agreement is reached that results in a fiscal consolidation plan of at least $4 trillion, that the nation’s debt-to-Gross Domestic Product (GDP) will continue to increase over the next decade.

And, critically, according to the report, “We view an inability to timely agree and credibly implement medium-term fiscal consolidation policy as inconsistent with a 'AAA' sovereign rating, given the expected government debt trajectory noted above.”
http://washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/op-eds/2011/07/sp-report-vindicates-house-cut-cap-and-balance-plan

This was written 7/16/11. Nothing to do with taxes, everything to do with the debt to GDP ratio. You can call Fox all the names you want to. S&P told us what would happen if they didnt stop the spending increases.

[..]

Here's the real reason for our domestic crisis

'It's Europe's fault. I inherited this problem' 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2023988/Asian-markets-tumble-SECOND-day-Dow-goes-freefall-sparking-panic-Wall-Street.html