Hands free riding for a cause

[Momz]

As some of you know, my wife Damselfly is a certified MSF rider coach.
Wowever this past weekend she worked with this guy. Yes, he is also a certified rider coach, but this guy is really special.

http://www.lenconnect.com/features/x1547145496/Cyclist-to-ride-hands-free-for-funds

[Momz]

Please check out the above link and try to access your own skills.

[Willow]

Interesting.

I've done 15 miles hands free and my friend, Raymond, has done over 60, I believe.  I could have done more but came up on traffic on the two lane.

As the article mentions, I push the bike through a curve with my knee, but I don't really understand why it works.  Anybody have insight (other than , of course, informing me that I'm crazy)?

[DarkMeister]

Hmmmm... Something I have been just lately wondering about. Can't seem to do it on my IS and have been wondering why that is. Deceleration, maybe? (No cruise) Steering issues? Fairing? Whenever I try to let go, first crack in the road gets handlebars shaking progressively into a wobble.

[bscrive]

I have been just too chicken to try this.  I have been in one motorcycle accident in my life and I don't wish to tempt another one.

[solo1]

I've done it on the Valk and used my knees like Carl, it works.

It won't work on the Vstrom maybe due to less trail and a slightly leaned forward position.

It might not be a good idea unless you really know your bike, that's asking for a wobble.

[Michvalk]

Hmmmm... Something I have been just lately wondering about. Can't seem to do it on my IS and have been wondering why that is. Deceleration, maybe? (No cruise) Steering issues? Fairing? Whenever I try to let go, first crack in the road gets handlebars shaking progressively into a wobble.

Steering head bearings loose. Happened to me.
I can't ride no handed very far as my bike pulls ever so slightly to the right.

[Chiefy]

Hmmmm... Something I have been just lately wondering about. Can't seem to do it on my IS and have been wondering why that is. Deceleration, maybe? (No cruise) Steering issues? Fairing? Whenever I try to let go, first crack in the road gets handlebars shaking progressively into a wobble.

Steering head bearings loose. Happened to me.
I can't ride no handed very far as my bike pulls ever so slightly to the right.

Mine did too until I redistributed all the scheisse in my bags.

[Mongo]

Did he make it?  The story is from 2010

[Willow]

Did he make it?  The story is from 2010

http://www.lenconnect.com/features/x1738170504/No-hands-motorcycle-ride-completed

[Rams]

I rode hands free on my old KZ 1000 for several hundred miles on a trip once, only grabbed the handle bars for getting gas.  This was on the interstate and I had a throttle lock on it.  I've done it on my Valk before (similar throttle lock) but only about 45 to 50 miles (also on the interstate highway)  Would love to get a real cruise control but, I don't have the skills to mount it (( already know this) and don't know of a reliable brand to purchase.  

Since I ride a Standard, I'm a little hesititant to start loading down the handle bars with a bunch of ugly crap.  I already have a GPS mounted and don't really want to add to the clutter I found this one but, don't know anyone that has it or who can install it.  http://www.mccruise.com/pdf_bin/mcs4530_brochure.pdf

Suggestions or advice?

[czuch]

I'm too skeered.
Its that whole "cant afford to heal" thing.

[POPS 57]

I was reading a sport bike fourm here in Minnesota. One of the riders on there was saying. He recived a ticket for riding one handed.   Thats just one more law that will get you pulled over in M.N. Then they can look you over for other things.

[Stitch_in_La]

Read one of the rider training places websites and they use a bike they can lock the handlebars so they can't turn and try to turn the bike by leaning only, won't turn.  Have to turn the bars destabilize the bike and lean.  When you just lean the wheel turns and destabilizes the bike turns.  Don't think I would want to try a sharpish turn hands free but an interstate turn doesn't seem to be a problem.  Check your front tire wear pattern, left side wear can do things like that well before time to actually change the tire.

Stitch

[FryeVRCCDS0067]

You can keep em going straight by sticking one hand or knee out into the wind too. My son had a piece of "trotline" tied to each grip for years. He used them on his first trip West so he could relax with his hands off the bars.

[Rocketman]

As the article mentions, I push the bike through a curve with my knee, but I don't really understand why it works.  Anybody have insight (other than , of course, informing me that I'm crazy)?

A gyroscope acts in ways that the human brain doesn't compute very well.  A force in one direction causes a rotation in a completely different direction.  A motorcycle is two gyroscopes connected together.  The actions of those two gyroscopes together, with the rather odd coupling of the forks, means that it's even more complicated.  Even (especially) if the force doesn't move anything, it will still induce the corresponding, but "illogical", rotation.  Suffice to say, more weight on one side or another, more drag on one side or another, or any lean introduced, all means that unusual rotational forces are introduced.  While the brain can't calculate the numbers on the fly, the brain (with practice) can still predict the effects, and allow the rider to lean/push/stick hand in wind/shift body weight just the right amount.
The adaptive/learning capability of the human brain never ceases to amaze me.

Bottom line:  Don't ask a question that you thought was simple, of a guy with a physics degree.

Mark

[Daniel Meyer]

My favorite riding position for burning miles down the interstate is cruise engaged, hands in lap, leaned back on backrest.

[HayHauler]

And it helps to have the curves banked correctly so as not to have to correct too much.  Changing lanes can be done with any of the methods above, but there is usually no "bank" to deal with.

Pulling to the right just might be from the crown in the road for water to drain to the shoulder/ditch.

Hay 
Jimmyt

[FryeVRCCDS0067]

As the article mentions, I push the bike through a curve with my knee, but I don't really understand why it works.  Anybody have insight (other than , of course, informing me that I'm crazy)?

A gyroscope acts in ways that the human brain doesn't compute very well.  A force in one direction causes a rotation in a completely different direction.  A motorcycle is two gyroscopes connected together.  The actions of those two gyroscopes together, with the rather odd coupling of the forks, means that it's even more complicated.  Even (especially) if the force doesn't move anything, it will still induce the corresponding, but "illogical", rotation.  Suffice to say, more weight on one side or another, more drag on one side or another, or any lean introduced, all means that unusual rotational forces are introduced.  While the brain can't calculate the numbers on the fly, the brain (with practice) can still predict the effects, and allow the rider to lean/push/stick hand in wind/shift body weight just the right amount.
The adaptive/learning capability of the human brain never ceases to amaze me.

Bottom line:  Don't ask a question that you thought was simple, of a guy with a physics degree.

Mark

Kinda like shooting a shotgun at a clay pigeon is for me. If I think about how I'm doing it I won't be able to do it. I certainly agree about the human brain, if you think about it, driving, riding or flying anything is an amazing feat.

[Gryphon Rider]

Read one of the rider training places websites and they use a bike they can lock the handlebars so they can't turn and try to turn the bike by leaning only, won't turn.  Have to turn the bars destabilize the bike and lean.  When you just lean the wheel turns and destabilizes the bike turns.  Don't think I would want to try a sharpish turn hands free but an interstate turn doesn't seem to be a problem.  Check your front tire wear pattern, left side wear can do things like that well before time to actually change the tire.
Stitch

If my memory serves me well, what they did was add a second set of bars, solidly mounted to the frame so the rider had something to hold.  The proper handlebars and steering head were left alone.  This allowed the rider to see how shifting their weight from side to side caused only a delayed and minimal change of direction, especially as speed increased.

Willow, I suspect that what the rider does with his knees is only effective as it relates to the rider shifting his centre of gravity relative to the bike, and even then only with minimal impact compared to push steering with the handlebars.

Okay, after typing what I've written above, I decided to use Google.  It's Keith Code who uses the dual handlebar "no BS bike" at his California Superbike School.  His write-up is worth reading.

See http://www.superbikeschool.com/machinery/no-bs-machine.php

[Daniel Meyer]

Okay, after typing what I've written above, I decided to use Google.  It's Keith Code who uses the dual handlebar "no BS bike" at his California Superbike School.  His write-up is worth reading.

See http://www.superbikeschool.com/machinery/no-bs-machine.php

Yes yes! I think they should do this in MSF classes. Single most important thing many never learn.

[BamaDrifter64]

Back when I was young and dumb, I used to pretty much lay down on my HD Sportster and ride handless for many miles at a time on long trips on the interstate.  Would lay my legs up on the highway pegs, lean all the way back and lay my upper back and head on my travel bag and steer by shifting my legs in or out.  Got used to people coming up beside me, pointing and looking, even some taking pictures.  

I've smarted up in my old age...no more handless riding...and no more HDs....

Dave

[Willow]

If my memory serves me well, what they did was add a second set of bars, solidly mounted to the frame so the rider had something to hold.  The proper handlebars and steering head were left alone.  This allowed the rider to see how shifting their weight from side to side caused only a delayed and minimal change of direction, especially as speed increased.

Willow, I suspect that what the rider does with his knees is only effective as it relates to the rider shifting his centre of gravity relative to the bike, and even then only with minimal impact compared to push steering with the handlebars.

Yes, I've read the article long ago.  I don't contest the effectiveness of countersteering, and am a proponent of riders understanding that method as the way to steer a motorcycle at speed.

That said, my experience is that at speed the bike (a 700+ pound Valkyrie) responds to a nudge from my knee.  It's not enough for sharp redirection, but will suffice for gentle sweepers, moderate course corrections, and even a not-so-quick lane change.  I truly don't understand why, but it does.  I've gone out of my way to be sure I'm not shifting my position in the saddle.  I think the one comment regarding changing the airflow may hold some merit.

For my part the best I seem to be able to do is accept it as psychokinesis ??? and just keep doing what I do.    

(I'm also inclined to buy into the Rocketman's gyroscope perspective.  It almost answers the question and leaves just enough mystery for the uninitiated to interpret as magic.    )         

[Daniel Meyer]

For my part the best I seem to be able to do is accept it as psychokinesis ??? and just keep doing what I do.    

I've said it before...piloting these machines is an act of sheer will.

(poor Will)

[Willow]

For my part the best I seem to be able to do is accept it as psychokinesis ??? and just keep doing what I do.    

I've said it before...piloting these machines is an act of sheer will.

(poor Will)

"The transition back to the highway involved two left turns with an intervening three eighths of a mile.  It was slightly complicated by my doubling back to the station to ascertain that a rattling trunk lid was sufficiently closed, but was still a short distance with few turns.  By the time we reached the left turn onto the flyway the Dragon and I were so comfortable with one another that I rubbed the outside of my left boot on the asphalt in mid turn.  I was no longer driving the beast, but was riding.    The bond was almost instantaneous.  In that moment the rider and the ride became one as it always should be."

I agree, but I suspect it's not so much sheer will as a merging of the wills, but now we're slipping off into that other world which so few seem to understand.      

[Jess from VA]

No hands steering is MUCH more effective with feet on the Hwy pegs.  Pushing on them steers the bike, as does knees out in the wind.  I can do it for miles and miles but don't very often, just on occasion to rest my arms and hands and stretch. 

What I love doing is riding standing up on the floorboards,  one or two handed (this is a backroads proposition, not for the superslab).  I am just the right size and (short) height.  Can't be much over 45-50 though cause it wants to blow the helmet off (1/2).  I have made it up the Skyline Drive from the Front Royal entrance 3/4s of the way to the next 211 exit without sitting down.  I have considered that some LE might view this as reckless driving, though if he follows me he can see I maintain a nice line all the way.  Eat more bugs though.

[Rocketman]

(I'm also inclined to buy into the Rocketman's gyroscope perspective.  It almost answers the question and leaves just enough mystery for the uninitiated to interpret as magic.    )         

Amusingly enough, that's precisely what I was going for.  If you explain everything, no one's impressed.
(:

[Willow]

Amusingly enough, that's precisely what I was going for.  If you explain everything, no one's impressed. (:

( And that's why we get paid the big bucks.     )

[Rocketman]

You really want to know why I didn't explain?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3wHKBavY_h8

[Damselfly]

Yes he made it in 2010, he is going do it again in 2011 October time frame. Of course he has a throttle lock. Next ride is from the MAC to Kentucky. I'll see him on the range this weekend and get more details.

[Mr.BubblesVRCCDS0008]

I do it alot when riding good flat roads and light or no traffic. The wife has a thing about it and ____we don't  do it while she is aboard.