ATF director out! over selling guns to criminals :)

[The Anvil]

OK..just can't resist. We seem to be a pretty conservative crowd here! But you know what? I hope to meet Anvil one day and shake his hand. This guy has such a liberal slant on EVERYTHING but he is true to his cause. I disagree with nearly everything he says, as do most of us apparently. But you have to love the conviction and dedication to his own cause..wrong as it may be..LOL!

You know what's funny about that? I'm not really a liberal. I have SOME liberal views (education and relaxation of drug laws for instance) and some conservative views (2nd amendment, immigration, affirmative action) I just like to counter extreme arguments because I believe that the extreme side of any debate is a poor representation of reality. I voted for Bush II in 2000 and came very close to voting for McCain in 2008. I classify myself as an independent as I refuse to be associated directly with any collection of politibots.

Also it must be said; I like arguing. 

[Ferris Leets]

I think this got WAY off topic.  The reason they should be charged is because they told licensed gundealers to VIOLATE the existing laws against Strawman purchsases.  Our government did not sell or give guns to anyone.  They just caused ilegal activities.

[Moonshot_1]

Sometimes the simple answer is the right one.

And as I said previously, one of these things is not like the other. Sesame Street Simple

[The Anvil]

Sometimes the simple answer is the right one.

And as I said previously, one of these things is not like the other. Sesame Street Simple

In both cases Americans are dead because of illegal government maneuvering. Not different at all.

[Moonshot_1]

Our government did not sell or give guns to anyone.[

but it created policy that allowed guns to go to the most violent criminal institutions in Mexico. Those who created the policy qualify as being responsible for the aftermath which was pretty obvious well before the plan was executed.
 
I suppose the DOJ will claim they thought they would beat the guns into plow shears to better cultivate their crop.

[Moonshot_1]

Sometimes the simple answer is the right one.

And as I said previously, one of these things is not like the other. Sesame Street Simple

In both cases Americans are dead because of illegal government maneuvering. Not different at all.

What was illegal with the Lend Lease under FDR
or the Congressionally approved aid and arms to the Afgan Rebels under Carter and Reagan?

I'm fairly certain there is going to be an issue with creating a policy that results in aid and arms to drug dealers in Mexico under this administration. Pretty sure Congress didn't agree to this one.

[tank_post142]

i guess i won't post anymore inflammatory subjects. sorry 

[Hoser]

Folks, you are butting your heads against a wall,  Our friend anvil is never wrong about anything, just like some of our own children.  They can be a real PIA.  But we still love them don't we? Don't we?      Hoser

[designer]

This is pretty simple. A little Sesame Street here...

FDR gave Stalin weapons. At the time Stalin wasn't the bad guy but he and his country were fighting against our enemy. Nazi Germany

Regan gave the Mujaheddin weapons. At the time, the Mujaheddin wasn't the bad guy and they were fighting our enemy. A nuclear superpower, the USSR.

Obama administration gave Mexican Drug Lords weapons. At the time, which is now, The Mexican Drug Lords are the bad guys. The Mexican Drug Lords are our enemy.

One of these things is not like the other

The Mujaheddin (late known as the Taliban) have always been our enemy, if not an imminent threat then still philosophically diametrically opposed to us, even more so than the communists. So no, these things are all alike.

You are Wrong, the Freedom fighters (Mujaheddin) we're not the Taliban.. it originated in post civil war Afghanstan.  do your research...

WERE NOT. Note that I said they "later became" the Taliban and that's accurate.

As far as all the above operations... when you elect your public officials they have some rights to act without your knowledge in the name of national security.  Most americans don't want to know, they just want to be able to go to sleep at night knowing there government will keep the wolves away.  Its not until someone (politicans) think they can gain from its exposure that some of these operations come to light.

True, but bad moves are still bad moves.

Before you become too critical of this administration or that administration I would say you need to pick up a gun and join the fight.  The Armed forces will even take a lefty like you....

Dude, don't play that card. Just because someone hasn't served in the military doesn't mean that they can't be critical of government.

That's like saying all iraqi's are insurgents.  Your still wrong.

And til you understand how the services work, who's really in charge, what the stakes are, how to fight a war your speaking out of ignorance.  But credibility has never been one of your strong points.

[Master Blaster]

It is halarious to me that people believe the cartels need our weapons, that are semi automatic, and are mostly light arms, when they are international and have unlimited funds to buy real machine guns, RPGs, fully automatic weapons, and the  heavy arms of choice, in whatever quanity they chose.  They already have the pipeline that brings in the drugs, and there are many suppliers out there willing to send them anything their hearts desire.  No doubt about it Fast & Furious was designed as the opening salvo this administration fired in their war aganst private gun ownership.  This was a setback for them, but will only make them more determined to disarm the public.  If you like guns, stay vigilant, they are comming for them.

[The Anvil]

And til you understand how the services work, who's really in charge, what the stakes are, how to fight a war your speaking out of ignorance.  But credibility has never been one of your strong points.

As if you know what my relationship is to the military. 

[designer]

And til you understand how the services work, who's really in charge, what the stakes are, how to fight a war your speaking out of ignorance.  But credibility has never been one of your strong points.

As if you know what my relationship is to the military. 

You've never had a relationship with any force yourself. Maybe tried and turned away....hahaha

[The Anvil]

And til you understand how the services work, who's really in charge, what the stakes are, how to fight a war your speaking out of ignorance.  But credibility has never been one of your strong points.

As if you know what my relationship is to the military. 

You've never had a relationship with any force yourself. Maybe tried and turned away....hahaha

Okay. 

[designer]

And til you understand how the services work, who's really in charge, what the stakes are, how to fight a war your speaking out of ignorance.  But credibility has never been one of your strong points.

As if you know what my relationship is to the military. 

You've never had a relationship with any force yourself. Maybe tried and turned away....hahaha

Okay. 

Were in agreement!   

[The Anvil]

And til you understand how the services work, who's really in charge, what the stakes are, how to fight a war your speaking out of ignorance.  But credibility has never been one of your strong points.

As if you know what my relationship is to the military. 

You've never had a relationship with any force yourself. Maybe tried and turned away....hahaha

Okay. 

Were in agreement!   

Sure we are. 

[FryeVRCCDS0067]

I can’t wait till the Dept. of Justice gives everyone at Guantanamo an Airplane and a case of Serin. You know, just to see how they operate and how they will use it.

Dude, don't give them any ideas!!!

The other big thing for me, call me a conspiracy theorist if you like, was that the true goal of Fast and Furious wasn't catching the drug cartel people (All tracking of the guns ended at the border, and the Mexican authorities were never brought in on it...) IMHO the true purpose was to give some credence to the anti 2nd amendment folks claims that most of the guns used by the drug cartels (Drug cartels which have access to REAL automatic weapons, grenades, RPG's, etc) are coming from US gun stores, and thus we need to ban those evil looking guns again...

Exactly. Obama and/or his minions intentionally caused the deaths of Americans and Mexicans alike to further their anti-freedom/anti-second amendment political stance. They should be charged with the murders of everyone killed with these firearms. The only thing that went wrong with their plan was that we found out. Otherwise, the results were exactly what they wanted.

They call the right cold for wanting the illegals out of the country. That's nothing compared to helping murder people for the purpose of enacting more gun control/people control. If Bush had done this he would have went to prison.

[musclehead]

This is pretty simple. A little Sesame Street here...

FDR gave Stalin weapons. At the time Stalin wasn't the bad guy but he and his country were fighting against our enemy. Nazi Germany

Regan gave the Mujaheddin weapons. At the time, the Mujaheddin wasn't the bad guy and they were fighting our enemy. A nuclear superpower, the USSR.

Obama administration gave Mexican Drug Lords weapons. At the time, which is now, The Mexican Drug Lords are the bad guys. The Mexican Drug Lords are our enemy.

One of these things is not like the other

The Mujaheddin (late known as the Taliban) have always been our enemy, if not an imminent threat then still philosophically diametrically opposed to us, even more so than the communists. So no, these things are all alike.

You are Wrong, the Freedom fighters (Mujaheddin) we're not the Taliban.. it originated in post civil war Afghanstan.  do your research...

As far as all the above operations... when you elect your public officials they have some rights to act without your knowledge in the name of national security.  Most americans don't want to know, they just want to be able to go to sleep at night knowing there government will keep the wolves away.  Its not until someone (politicans) think they can gain from its exposure that some of these operations come to light.

Before you become too critical of this administration or that administration I would say you need to pick up a gun and join the fight.  The Armed forces will even take a lefty like you....

ATF... well, that's another story.  Sorry to say my dealing with them have been short and a losing battle... They swing with the power of the government and the agenda of whoever is in charge at the time.  +1 Bovine

oh my gosh, shut the front door! Mr. Anvil is wrong about something?

well there goes the neighborhood.....

[The Anvil]

This is pretty simple. A little Sesame Street here...

FDR gave Stalin weapons. At the time Stalin wasn't the bad guy but he and his country were fighting against our enemy. Nazi Germany

Regan gave the Mujaheddin weapons. At the time, the Mujaheddin wasn't the bad guy and they were fighting our enemy. A nuclear superpower, the USSR.

Obama administration gave Mexican Drug Lords weapons. At the time, which is now, The Mexican Drug Lords are the bad guys. The Mexican Drug Lords are our enemy.

One of these things is not like the other

The Mujaheddin (late known as the Taliban) have always been our enemy, if not an imminent threat then still philosophically diametrically opposed to us, even more so than the communists. So no, these things are all alike.

You are Wrong, the Freedom fighters (Mujaheddin) we're not the Taliban.. it originated in post civil war Afghanstan.  do your research...

As far as all the above operations... when you elect your public officials they have some rights to act without your knowledge in the name of national security.  Most americans don't want to know, they just want to be able to go to sleep at night knowing there government will keep the wolves away.  Its not until someone (politicans) think they can gain from its exposure that some of these operations come to light.

Before you become too critical of this administration or that administration I would say you need to pick up a gun and join the fight.  The Armed forces will even take a lefty like you....

ATF... well, that's another story.  Sorry to say my dealing with them have been short and a losing battle... They swing with the power of the government and the agenda of whoever is in charge at the time.  +1 Bovine

oh my gosh, shut the front door! Mr. Anvil is wrong about something?

well there goes the neighborhood.....

You're on crack. I'm right as per usual.

[designer]

This is pretty simple. A little Sesame Street here...

FDR gave Stalin weapons. At the time Stalin wasn't the bad guy but he and his country were fighting against our enemy. Nazi Germany

Regan gave the Mujaheddin weapons. At the time, the Mujaheddin wasn't the bad guy and they were fighting our enemy. A nuclear superpower, the USSR.

Obama administration gave Mexican Drug Lords weapons. At the time, which is now, The Mexican Drug Lords are the bad guys. The Mexican Drug Lords are our enemy.

One of these things is not like the other

The Mujaheddin (late known as the Taliban) have always been our enemy, if not an imminent threat then still philosophically diametrically opposed to us, even more so than the communists. So no, these things are all alike.

You are Wrong, the Freedom fighters (Mujaheddin) we're not the Taliban.. it originated in post civil war Afghanstan.  do your research...

As far as all the above operations... when you elect your public officials they have some rights to act without your knowledge in the name of national security.  Most americans don't want to know, they just want to be able to go to sleep at night knowing there government will keep the wolves away.  Its not until someone (politicans) think they can gain from its exposure that some of these operations come to light.

Before you become too critical of this administration or that administration I would say you need to pick up a gun and join the fight.  The Armed forces will even take a lefty like you....

ATF... well, that's another story.  Sorry to say my dealing with them have been short and a losing battle... They swing with the power of the government and the agenda of whoever is in charge at the time.  +1 Bovine

oh my gosh, shut the front door! Mr. Anvil is wrong about something?

well there goes the neighborhood.....

You're on crack. I'm right as per usual.

Only in your mind! 

they have drugs for that, but I'm thinking you like talking to yourself.....     

[The Anvil]

but I'm thinking you like talking to yourself.....     

Well I do prefer intelligent conversation to the likes of you. 

[designer]

quote author=The Anvil link=topic=32472.msg299981#msg299981 date=1314887472]

but I'm thinking you like talking to yourself.....     

Well I do prefer intelligent conversation to the likes of you. 
[/quote]

And yet you still continue to talk... so its a struggle inside you between not having a intelligent converstaion and getting the last word in.. so, which is it.... either your not telling the truth about only having intelligent conversations or you have a need to get the last word in....

If its the last word then your last statement isn't true... if your last statement is true then you don't get the last word in...     decisions decisions...     I wait for your answer..... 

[The Anvil]

quote author=The Anvil link=topic=32472.msg299981#msg299981 date=1314887472]

but I'm thinking you like talking to yourself.....     

Well I do prefer intelligent conversation to the likes of you. 

And yet you still continue to talk... so its a struggle inside you between not having a intelligent converstaion and getting the last word in.. so, which is it.... either your not telling the truth about only having intelligent conversations or you have a need to get the last word in....

If its the last word then your last statement isn't true... if your last statement is true then you don't get the last word in...     decisions decisions...     I wait for your answer..... 
[/quote]

Yup. 

[designer]

  I was pulling for you.