maybe there's hope yet

[solo1]

for American companies.

The Sept/Oct 2011 issue of 'The Saturday Evening Post"  has an interesting article called 'Coming Home'  Now i know you young types don't read the SEP, it's just for us fogies, so you didn't see it.

According to the article, there are some smart US companies out there that now realize that cheap Chinese labor working in maxed to the gills Chinese manufacturing companies doesn't lend itself to making a quality product.  By the time the CEO's fly to China to resolve problems with quality, it is more feasible to bring manufacturing back to the States.  Right now, the Chinese big factories have so much work that they're subcontracting low production jobs to the smaller factories in the inner China where training and quality control doesn't exist.

In addition, design and producing a new product can be done much quicker if all the engineering and production is done at one place instead  of 8,000 miles of separation. As one company CEO said even though the US made product price would be slightly more, the difference in quality, training, and turnaround time, makes up for it.

A quote from the article "Unless a company is hell-bent on selling the cheapest goods possible without regards to quality, manufacturing at home makes more sense than it has in a generation." A number of companies that are doing this are mentioned in the article but I won't go into more detail.

I hope that this catches on. Hopefully if we get a second chance at this, greed in the form of high profits and high labor costs won't make it go away. 

I trust the private sector. I don't trust the Feds, especially now. 

[R J]

Yupper, da Fed's need to stay da puck out of the Companies business.

[FLAVALK]

I work in manufacturing and know this to be try. Or vendors in China sub out a lot of our stuff and the quality does suffer. I have been saying for quite awhile that this pendulum is going to eventually swing back in our favor. Another factor driving this change is that our customers want their stuff NOW!!!! They don't want to wait 60 or 90-days  We've lost many orders for this very reason.

[FLAVALK]

Wayne, do you mind sending me that article/link if you have it handy? I want our CEO to read it 

[FloridaValkRyder]

I can only hope that this is true Solo. One of our best chances of survival economically is to have manufacturers bring the work back to the U.S.A.! We also know that the posture of our "Government" is to try and tax them into oblivion and let the govt. do it. I believe this is called Socialism. If we can get the right people up in DC, new ones, not these career politicians, Dem's and Repub's ( Yes Anvil I really said it). Drop the corporate tax rate down to say 10% or 15%, we will bring our manufacturing sector back and probably those from other countries as well. Pray and vote, it is our only hope!

[old2soon]

My father told me a long time ago that if the U S of A loses it's manufacturing base it loses the countrys destiny. Wayne-i hope the article you read turns out to be the truth. I for one have never minded paying a little more for quality. Bought a Valkyrie didn't i ?? RIDE SAFE.

[3fan4life]

I've been saying for more than 20 years that our economy was in serious trouble because we were losing all of our manufacturing jobs.

The ONLY thing that will save our economy is to bring jobs back to America.


I sure hope that American Companies do the right thing and return these jobs to the USA.

[solo1]

For Flavalk and all others that have asked, I don't know how to link the story but this works. Revised.

Google it by typing in   Made in America  brendan koerner.

[FloridaValkRyder]

We actually have to do less hoping and more getting involved. Politicians are the people who set the "regulations" for industry and pass laws that encourage or discourage business. We have spent the last 2 decades listening to the wrong people who have encouraged regulations that ran manufacturing clean out of town. Get involved on some level with your local elections, find a candidate who truly wants to bring business back to America, support him and hold him accountable. You can watch Fox Business channel any night and find out who and what has to be done. Just my $.02 worth.

[FLAVALK]

For Flavalk and all others that have asked, I don't know how to link the story but this works.

Google it by typing in Coming Home,  Brendan  I. Koerner.  Evidently he's an independent reporter and an expansion of this article appears on Google under the above.  Let me know if it works.

Addendum:  I just looked at Google again.  The article doesn't seem to come up now. I don't know why.

I found this. Sounds like the same article

http://www.wired.com/magazine/2011/02/ff_madeinamerica

[solo1]

yep, only expanded.

[sugerbear]

We actually have to do less hoping and more getting involved. Politicians are the people who set the "regulations" for industry and pass laws that encourage or discourage business. We have spent the last 2 decades listening to the wrong people who have encouraged regulations that ran manufacturing clean out of town. Get involved on some level with your local elections, find a candidate who truly wants to bring business back to America, support him and hold him accountable. You can watch Fox Business channel any night and find out who and what has to be done. Just my $.02 worth.

sadly, i'll bet there's a LOT of voters out there that don't care what the facts are. just push the right party button, and keep their heads in the sand.

[The Anvil]

I trust the private sector. I don't trust the Feds, especially now. 

Why would you trust either? What reason has the private sector given you to earn their trust?

[FLAVALK]

I trust the private sector. I don't trust the Feds, especially now. 

Why would you trust either? What reason has the private sector given you to earn their trust?

Agreed! Let's all go be anarchists!!!

[ptgb]

So our realistic choices are:

1. Republicans... with a staunch track record of being free traders, which is unfriendly to domestic manufacturing.

2. Democrats... with a staunch track record of regulation and taxation, which is unfriendly to domestic manufacturing.

Some choice huh? 


I hope the pendulum does swing, but there are a lot of shills and charlatans in the way!

[Serk]

So our realistic choices are:

1. Republicans... with a staunch track record of being free traders, which is unfriendly to domestic manufacturing.

2. Democrats... with a staunch track record of regulation and taxation, which is unfriendly to domestic manufacturing.

Some choice huh? 


I hope the pendulum does swing, but there are a lot of shills and charlatans in the way!

-Insert Jabba's (Righteous) Rant on Libertarianism Here-



(Which I happen to agree with, and have voted L more than any other party in my electoral career)

[The Anvil]

I trust the private sector. I don't trust the Feds, especially now. 

Why would you trust either? What reason has the private sector given you to earn their trust?

Agreed! Let's all go be anarchists!!!

Already there.  

Anarchy means "no king". It does not have to represent a lack of law and order as well. We need to stop electing kings whether they have D, R or TP next to their names. That's not to say I expect that we should do away with the position of POTUS altogether but rather, that executive power has gotten out of control and needs to be put in check.

[solo1]

I trust the private sector. I don't trust the Feds, especially now.  

Why would you trust either? What reason has the private sector given you to earn their trust?

Anvil, you believe what you want and I'll believe what I want.  I have a few years in age on you and one helluva lot more time working in the private sector. I also have 14 years working (yeah I said working) as an elected councilman so that makes me a politician.

My experience tells me.  What does your experience tell you?

[The Anvil]

I trust the private sector. I don't trust the Feds, especially now. 

Why would you trust either? What reason has the private sector given you to earn their trust?

You believe what you want and I'll believe what I want Anvil.  I have a few years on you and one helluva lot more time working in the private sector.

Unless you're working for yourself, you must trust some corporation to have a job to come to.

Why do you feel a need to play Devils Advocate??

Why do you assume I'm playing DA?

What have corporations ever done to earn the trust of the American people besides dodge taxes, pollute as much as they could get away with (and more that they could not), ship jobs overseas, gouge during times of crisis, etc.

If companies bring jobs back into America it is not out of the goodness of their hearts but because they have something to gain. Americans are getting fed up with cheap, Chinese made junk. Finding an alternative may be very difficult but returns and warranty claims are eating into the profits gained by cheap labor due to poor quality control.

They're also sensing a shift in the American paradigm of paying as little as possible for something while sacrificing quality and are looking to take advantage (as any smart corporation should do). But it's NOT because they're worried about America's strength. This is not a matter of religion where one "believes" something to be true or takes it on faith. This is business 101.

There are some individuals I trust in this world. I'm not such a cynic that I won't put my trust in a man or woman. But in a large organization? No, I'm not extending my trust unless I have no other choice.

[solo1]

Sorry Anvil, I modified my post while you were posting, didn't mean to orphan your comment about mine.

[Jabba]

Nice!!!   I got involved in this thread whist actively avoiding it!

There are more choices than Rep and Dem.  Libertarian mostly.  And Independents.

Lowering the Corp tax rate?  Yes please.  How about to ZERO?  as in the FairTax.  All they do is pass it on anyway.  If you want to see an explosion of American Manufacturing, adopt the FairTax. 

Don't think so?  Read up on it yourself.  Personally I believe it to be the SINGLE best thing we could do for our country right now.  It's get the economy rolling, AND it'd expose the Congress critters for the thieves and slackers they are.

Jabba

[Bob E.]

Nice!!!   I got involved in this thread whist actively avoiding it!

There are more choices than Rep and Dem.  Libertarian mostly.  And Independents.

Lowering the Corp tax rate?  Yes please.  How about to ZERO?  as in the FairTax.  All they do is pass it on anyway.  If you want to see an explosion of American Manufacturing, adopt the FairTax. 

Don't think so?  Read up on it yourself.  Personally I believe it to be the SINGLE best thing we could do for our country right now.  It's get the economy rolling, AND it'd expose the Congress critters for the thieves and slackers they are.

Jabba

Be careful what you wish for.  My guess is that your taxes would rise significantly over what they arenow.  I know mine would.  Just because a tax system is called a "fairtax" doesn't make it so.  The tax system laid out at fairtax.org is highly regressive and puts most of the burden on lower income people who already don't have enough to get by while cutting the rates of the higher income earners.  I'd certainly support a more fair tax system than we have now.  The problem is that what is "fair" is highly subjective. 

[The Anvil]

I find the notion of industry as a benevolent king forced into exile waiting only for the threat (of high taxes) to be lifted before riding home to save the day highly laughable.

Oh, industry spends a lot of money to put this notion into people's heads, but don't buy it.

[Willow]

I find the notion of industry as a benevolent king forced into exile waiting only for the threat (of high taxes) to be lifted before riding home to save the day highly laughable.

Oh, industry spends a lot of money to put this notion into people's heads, but don't buy it.

Laughter is good for the soul.  I'm truly pleased you can find pleasure in the thought, but I hope no one with his head on straight believes that.  I'm pretty sure that if major corporations are spending money on promoting that view they're wasting their funds.

It is as you have said.  A corporation is an entity most driven by the profit motive and preserving its own welfare.  When benevolence is beneficial to the corporation the corporation will be benevolent.  When patriotism is beneficial to the corporation the corporation will be patriotic.  When paying wages and salaries is beneficial to the corporation ...  I'm sure you get the idea.  It is as it has been and will be.  One way to change that paradigm is socialization of big business, but that only moves the one mindset from a host of corporations to the government, in effect making the government a single super corporation.

If we want corporations (money making businesses) to remain in this country or influence them to bring manufacturing back to this country, we must take measures to make manufacturing in this country profitable.

What's foolish is the belief that taxing large corporations can be somehow beneficial to the masses.  Corporations have no revenue but what comes out of my pockets and yours.  Corporations don't pay taxes.  They simply collect them from you and me and pass them on.

Incidentally, there is a lot of money being spent promoting the notion that raising taxes on major corporations will result in more money in the pockets of the poor and middle classes.  The people spending that money are banking on the hope that a large number of people in this country either slept through or never experienced a basic economics class.

Personally I have faith that big government will continue to do what big government does and that big business will continue to do what big business does.  It's the predictability that gives me faith, not a belief in the benevolence of either.

YMMV        

[ptgb]

...There are more choices than Rep and Dem.  Libertarian mostly.  And Independents...

As I said realistic choices... nope.

Libertarians don't have a chance, never have. Green, Progressive, Communist, Socialist, "Tea", Nazi... name it... don't have a chance in hell. And before you say the "tea party" won some seats... it ain't a real political party, just conservatives riding a wave of discontent, that's all.

As far as "Independents"... that is just a Republican or Democrat that has something to hide... to both sides.

[Valkernaut]

Lowering the Corp tax rate?  Yes please.  How about to ZERO?  as in the FairTax.  All they do is pass it on anyway.  If you want to see an explosion of American Manufacturing, adopt the FairTax. 

Don't think so?  Read up on it yourself.  Personally I believe it to be the SINGLE best thing we could do for our country right now. 



Jabba

Jabba - You cannot get the folks attention that have voted D or R most of their lives. They have their mind made up and do not want to learn anything else....Might stop our checks from coming in!

[The Anvil]

Lowering the Corp tax rate?  Yes please.  How about to ZERO?  as in the FairTax.  All they do is pass it on anyway.  If you want to see an explosion of American Manufacturing, adopt the FairTax. 

Don't think so?  Read up on it yourself.  Personally I believe it to be the SINGLE best thing we could do for our country right now. 



Jabba

Jabba - You cannot get the folks attention that have voted D or R most of their lives. They have their mind made up and do not want to learn anything else....Might stop our checks from coming in!

I take it you've been voting for LaRouche/Perot/Nader/Insert Whackadoo for most of yours?

[Momz]

I'm a "dyed in the wool" Democrat, but I do believe that H.Ross Perot did have our countys best intrest at heart.

This country has had many tough times, but there are a few Political Heros. Just inform yourselves about former President: Harry S. Truman. At times the press reviled him and his political views, but by the end of WWII, he was hailed as one of this countrys best leaders.

JMHO

[CajunRider]

Why would you trust either? What reason has the private sector given you to earn their trust?

The private sector can be trusted to protect their bottom dollar... if enough people start looking for and buying products made with quality, the private sector will start aiming at quality.  

They may not be looking out for my well being... but at least they are predictable.  

Now we need more Americans to start crying for the return of the Chevy 350... then I won't have to buy foreign to get some good low end torque in my truck!  

[Willow]

Anarchy means "no king". It does not have to represent a lack of law and order as well.

  I really can't believe you all let him get away with that.  Surely someone knows the meaning of anarchy. 

[Jabba]

As I said realistic choices... nope.

Libertarians don't have a chance, never have. Green, Progressive, Communist, Socialist, "Tea", Nazi... name it... don't have a chance in hell. And before you say the "tea party" won some seats... it ain't a real political party, just conservatives riding a wave of discontent, that's all.

As far as "Independents"... that is just a Republican or Democrat that has something to hide... to both sides.

Only due to an attitude like that.

I find a lot of people THINK Libertarian thoughts.  But won't VOTE that way for one of two reasons.  The one you state... or that they reject ONE Libertarian principle so I can't vote with them.  Be that drugs, gays, religion, or pacificism.  Me... I am a hawkish Libertarian, but find that I agree more with them than the other wanks.

Libertarianism, will solve a lot of issues.  I'll admit, that it'll also not coddle the people who simply refuse to produce.  Thos leeches will be less well taken care of.

Jabba

[Moonshot_1]

I trust the private sector. I don't trust the Feds, especially now. 

Why would you trust either? What reason has the private sector given you to earn their trust?

I trust the private sector.
I trust they are looking out for themselves, not me.
I trust they need to be constantly scrutinized
I know they can't vote to force me to buy their stuff
I trust their products and services as long as it meets my satisfaction.

I can’t trust the Fed Government.
They look out for the lobbyist not me
They need to be constantly scrutinized
They can vote to make me do things I don’t want to do.
They rarely meet my satisfaction and they don’t give refunds

I know where the private sector stands. "Buyer Beware"
The Fed. Government is a mystery most of the time.
 

[FLAVALK]

Anarchy means "no king". It does not have to represent a lack of law and order as well.

  I really can't believe you all let him get away with that.  Surely someone knows the meaning of anarchy. 

Sometimes it's just not worth the trouble. This is one of those times...

[3fan4life]

Anarchy means "no king". It does not have to represent a lack of law and order as well.

  I really can't believe you all let him get away with that.  Surely someone knows the meaning of anarchy. 

I can't speak for anyone else but after I discovered the ignore llist, I haven't been able to see any of his posts. 

[The Anvil]

Anarchy means "no king". It does not have to represent a lack of law and order as well.

  I really can't believe you all let him get away with that.  Surely someone knows the meaning of anarchy. 

Oh someone knows the meaning of it. ME.

It has many definitions and "lack of law and order" is only one that has entered the lexicon. But the Sex Pistols do not own the only accepted definition.

Anarchy (from Greek: ἀναρχίᾱ anarchíā, "without ruler") may refer to any of several political states, and has been variously defined by sources. Most often, the term "anarchy" describes the simple absence of publicly recognized government or enforced political authority. When used in this sense, anarchy may or may not imply political disorder or lawlessness within a society. In another sense, anarchy may not refer to a complete lack of authority or political organization, but instead refer to a social state characterized by a lack of a state, ruler, or libertarianism.

From Websters...

an·ar·chy
noun \ˈa-nər-kē, -ˌnär-\

1
a : absence of government
b : a state of lawlessness or political disorder due to the absence of governmental authority
c : a utopian society of individuals who enjoy complete freedom without government

2
a : absence or denial of any authority or established order
b : absence of order : disorder <not manicured plots but a wild anarchy of nature — Israel Shenker>


Anarchy can mean chaos and disorder but it can also mean direct democracy or ordered self rule. So... I'm right once again. Do your homework before calling me out. 

[The Anvil]

I trust the private sector. I don't trust the Feds, especially now. 

Why would you trust either? What reason has the private sector given you to earn their trust?

I trust the private sector.
I trust they are looking out for themselves, not me.
I trust they need to be constantly scrutinized
I know they can't vote to force me to buy their stuff
I trust their products and services as long as it meets my satisfaction.

I can’t trust the Fed Government.
They look out for the lobbyist not me
They need to be constantly scrutinized
They can vote to make me do things I don’t want to do.
They rarely meet my satisfaction and they don’t give refunds

I know where the private sector stands. "Buyer Beware"
The Fed. Government is a mystery most of the time.
 

No, the private sector will actively try to screw you too.

[Trynt]

...There are more choices than Rep and Dem.  Libertarian mostly.  And Independents...

As I said realistic choices... nope.

Libertarians don't have a chance, never have. Green, Progressive, Communist, Socialist, "Tea", Nazi... name it... don't have a chance in hell. And before you say the "tea party" won some seats... it ain't a real political party, just conservatives riding a wave of discontent, that's all.

As far as "Independents"... that is just a Republican or Democrat that has something to hide... to both sides.

Hopefully that is changing:

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/elections/election_2012/election_2012_presidential_election/election_2012_barack_obama_42_ron_paul_41

[fon1961]

competition and a level playing field is the key in my opinion.  rules/regulations, greed, and ignorance have distracted this country from doing what we are really capable of.

[Willow]

Oh someone knows the meaning of it. ME.  

 

Anarchy can mean chaos and disorder but it can also mean direct democracy or ordered self rule. So... I'm right once again. Do your homework before calling me out.  

Oh, I've done my homework.  I've found no reference in definitions to "ordered self rule".  It appeared to me that you chose to go back to the Greek (ancient) term from which the word was derived.  If that's the case perhaps  the use of the ancient Greek word rather than anarchy would've been more correct.

Perhaps it's a simple difference of perspective.  The populace at large, since the terms govern and law are so closely linked, would seem to believe that without government and lawless are either synonymous or very nearly so.  I'll concede it's possible that you believe law and order could exist without government.  Seems almost contradictory, doesn't it?  

But then that still leaves the whole "anarchy means no king" bit, doesn't it?

Lastly, I was not calling you out.  I was merely pointing out your intentional misrepresentation.  Those I was calling out were the participants of this forum that seem anxious to contest your blather.            

[The Anvil]

But then that still leaves the whole "anarchy means no king" bit, doesn't it?

"Leaves it" how? Anarchia, no ruler. From Greek Monarch: mon (one, singular) arch (ruler, king). Anarch: an (anti, absence of) arch (ruler, king). It leaves nothing. Without kind or "ruler" if you prefer is one of the definitions.

Lastly, I was not calling you out.  I was merely pointing out your intentional misrepresentation.  Those I was calling out were the participants of this forum that seem anxious to contest your blather.            [/i]

Fair enough.