Fuel question

[artyc264]

Sorry if this has been asked before. I recently purchased an 03 Standard. I've been using 93 octane. Is that correct for this bike? Thanks, Arty

[old2soon]

Only if you got money to burn. If the bike is STOCK 87 octane is fine for these fat ladies of ours. RIDE SAFE.

[Quicksilver]

The bike will run just fine with 87 octane. Just be careful where you buy your gas. They don't run well with water in the fuel. I use 94 octane from time to time just to clean things up. Run a can of seafoam through it every 5000 miles, and you're good to go. Hi test all the time is a waste of cash.

[fudgie]

Reg is good. Just dont bring up ethanol. 

[junior]

ethanol

[Chiefy]

Reg is fine.  When I first got my bike the carbs were gunked up, and it would only run good on Prem.   After the carbs were cleaned, I notice no difference between Reg and Prem.

[wiseguy]

I have an all original 1967 F250 4X4 with a 352 v8 and in the owners manual it states that it requires regular gas with an octane of 94 and the compression ratio is 8.9:1. So I run premium in it. I personally prefer to run premium. I have allways ran premium in my bikes starting back in 67 with my Honda 50 minitrail when I was seven years old. Do you remember when the gas was red?

[dallastar]

YES!!!   I sssoooooo remember RED gas    i also remem 27cents a Gal

I have an all original 1967 F250 4X4 with a 352 v8 and in the owners manual it states that it requires regular gas with an octane of 94 and the compression ratio is 8.9:1. So I run premium in it. I personally prefer to run premium. I have allways ran premium in my bikes starting back in 67 with my Honda 50 minitrail when I was seven years old. Do you remember when the gas was red?

[wiseguy]

on average premium is $.10 more per gallon. When I fill up it takes 4 gallon. $.40 more. Its worth it.

[Chiefy]

on average premium is $.10 more per gallon. When I fill up it takes 4 gallon. $.40 more. Its worth it.

Why is Prem better?

[wiseguy]

Higher octane, therefore more powerfull explosion in the combustion chamer. Equates to better perfomance.

[Kylenav]

With a lower compression motor, such as the Valk, premium fuel really doesn't do anything.  If you NEEDED a higher octane you would hear an "octane ping" which is caused from using octane below what your engine calls is designed for.  Nowadays almost all cars have a knock sensor that will compensate for this by not delivering a spark until the piston is on the downstroke and there is less compression in the cylinder.  With the valk there is no such sensor because it's not FI, and it's designed to use 87 octane.

The main difference between the octanes is the compression ratio of the engine.  Also, all of the grades have the same amount of "detergent" in them.  The manual says to use 87 so use 87.  Where I live premium is $.40 - $.45 a gallon more. So each 5 gallon fill up is $2.00 or more.  I ride about 10K miles a year or so, getting 30 MPG, so it's a couple hundred bucks to use premium for no reason.

Just my $.02.  Obviously it's a personal choice, use what makes ya happy you won't hurt anything on the fat lady either way 

[GOOSE]

you all have to feel for those california boys......C.A.R.B./ crappy gas /etc.....they need to run the higher octane fuel because of all that crap that they have extra attached to their FAT LADY.  everybody east of california has got it good, they don't understand.

[wiseguy]

You are correct. absolutly correct!

[Quicksilver]

 Got this from"How stuff works". Apparently premium burns slower to get more complete combustion.
"­High-octane gas isn't necessarily better than regular grade. It isn't somehow more pure and it doesn't go through a superior refining process. It doesn't even keep your engine cleaner, as some people seem to believe. Premium fuel is just gas that contains a mixture of hydrocarbons that are slightly less combustible than those found in lower octane gas. This might seem odd, since cars use internal combustion engines that rely on the combustibility of gasoline to make them go. So, why would you pay extra money for gas that doesn't ignite quite as well as less expensive gas?"

[Farther]

10% Ethanol = 10% less fuel mileage. 

Where did you take your petroleum engineering training, Pelican Bay?

[Disco]

Higher octane, therefore more powerfull explosion in the combustion chamer. Equates to better perfomance.

I don't think that's correct.  Higher Octane fuels are designed to prevent pre-detonation (ping) in higher compression engines.  The Valkyrie is not a high-compression engine.  87 Octane is fine. 

[YoungPUP]

I may be wrong ( its happened before) but my understanding is that prem = no ethanol. Plus I've noticed that my 99 std runs crappy on anything else.

[Hoser]

Put in it what you want.  I use whatever is lowest price  at the pump.  Sometimes it's e10, sometimes it's regular. If premium was the least expensive I'd put that in.   Can't tell any difference in how it runs or milage I get. 91,000 miles and seven years, no problems.  To each his own.  Hoser

[wiseguy]

Let me put it this way,,,,,,,,,,, In 1975 I had a Honda XL250. I notice a big difference in the way it ran between reg, and premium, period.

[Steve K (IA)]

10% Ethanol = 10% less fuel mileage. 

Where did you take your petroleum engineering training, Pelican Bay?

Yea, what he said!  Explain why I get 40 mpg using 10% ethanol.  Actually, that is what has gone into both my Valks 99.9% of the time. 
I've said it before..... maybe because I live in the Tall Corn State, we must have premium corn squeezin's.  And I've had NO carb issues.  A 1/2 can of SeaFoam twice a year and all's good. 
This is what works for me.  YMMV   

[fudgie]

Farther, steveK-  I love it. Got my last E-10 fill up in Walcot IA this year. Bike ran great. Filled up in Ill. Noticable lack of performance. 

[Ricky-D]

I don't think the Valkyrie qualifies as a low compression motor with a compression ratio of (9.8 to 1).

A trigger wheel ought to get the bike into a premium fuel.

You will not hear damaging detonation and I doubt that if you did hear damaging detonation you would recognize it as that!

A few bucks extra for premium gasoline is not my idea of ill spent money and I stay with non-ethanol gasoline exclusively. I compromise when on a trip.

I fail to understand the demands of those to "stop wasting money". Who the hell are they to burden anyone with their belief system? It's my money and I'll spend it the way I want!

***

[Kylenav]

Didn't mean to upset you.  If you'd prefer to put in premium I'm sure as hell not going to try and stop you!!!  Somebody was asking if it was necessary, actually I think he asked what others are doing...  Since I too own and ride my Valk I figured that would include me?!?  A 9.8 compression ration isn't what I would consider "high compression" at all.  I had a 1998 rodeo that was 10.6:1 and called for 87 as a matter of fact.  IMO putting in premium is not at all necessary for the Valk.  The "damaging detonation" you doubt I would recongnize is called a "octane ping" in my neck of the woods.  It's not really damaging, over time you will build up carbon on the valves, easily taken care of with lucas or WOT through the gears a few times...  But you're right, I'd never know what that was

That's my OPINON.  Again, I'm not holding a gun to your head telling you what to do, as I could not possibly care any less what fuel you run.  I run 87, never had a problem to date and have an extra couple hundred bucks a year from doing so.  

[The Anvil]

I may be wrong ( its happened before) but my understanding is that prem = no ethanol. Plus I've noticed that my 99 std runs crappy on anything else.

That depends on region I think, but around here it holds true; premium = no ethanol and mid-grade is usually ethanol free as well. Premium may also have additives like Techron but that depends on the brand. I use premium because of the ethanol deletion. The additives I generally take care of myself.

The octane rating is not an indicator of power per unit of volume. However, if an engine is detonating due to the octane rating being too low then that's going to hurt performance so in a roundabout way it's true IF the engine requires it to run without detonating. Most modern computer controlled engines (aka: NOT a Valkyrie)will compensate for reduced detonation resistance in some way or another to reduce the possibility of engine damage, but you'll see lower performance and less efficiency.

[Farther]

I don't know if premium is not E10 or not around here.  I suspect premium is E10 too.  As far as midgrade is concerned, some (maybe most) service station use a mixer at the dispenser to mix regular and premium to get midgrade.  So if regular is E10 then mixing with non-E10 premium would get you E5 midgrade.

[Pluggy]

Florida State law requires E10 plus or minus zero.  There are some marinas and farm supplies that sell 100% gasoline.  It costs about a dollar more per gallon.  But.... on road gas no longer gasoline it is "ethanol blended motor fuel".

How does it run?  Great.  I never had any problems. The 1980 Honda runs good on it, too. You didn't see a half million guys pushing motorcycles home from Daytona this year, did you?  So if your Valkyrie runs bad, the cause is almost certainly not Florida-type fuel.

[Hoser]

Didn't mean to upset you.  If you'd prefer to put in premium I'm sure as hell not going to try and stop you!!!  Somebody was asking if it was necessary, actually I think he asked what others are doing...  Since I too own and ride my Valk I figured that would include me?!?  A 9.8 compression ration isn't what I would consider "high compression" at all.  I had a 1998 rodeo that was 10.6:1 and called for 87 as a matter of fact.  IMO putting in premium is not at all necessary for the Valk.  The "damaging detonation" you doubt I would recongnize is called a "octane ping" in my neck of the woods.  It's not really damaging, over time you will build up carbon on the valves, easily taken care of with lucas or WOT through the gears a few times...  But you're right, I'd never know what that was

That's my OPINON.  Again, I'm not holding a gun to your head telling you what to do, as I could not possibly care any less what fuel you run.  I run 87, never had a problem to date and have an extra couple hundred bucks a year from doing so.  

You must forgive Rickey, he has a tendency to get a bit snarky at times if you don't do what he says.  Kinda like my wife.  Hoser   

[gordonv]

Higher octane, therefore more powerfull explosion in the combustion chamer. Equates to better perfomance.

People! People! People! Octane is NOT a better fuel, OCTANE RATING, which is what we are talking about in a fuel when you buy at the pump, is a COMBUSTION SUPRESENT!

Taken from Wiki;
Octane rating or octane number is a standard measure of the anti-knock properties (i.e. the performance) of a motor or aviation fuel. The higher the octane number, the more compression the fuel can withstand before detonating. In broad terms, fuels with a higher octane rating are used in high-compression engines that generally have higher performance.


IF YOU DO NOT HAVE PINGING, at the lower rated fuel, you are wasting your money buying a higher rated number fuel. I have only had one vehicle that had pinging, and this was my Turbo charged Volvo 740, and I needed 87 fuel.

[roadhamr]

i mdo my best to find fuel with no ethanol in it at all. here in Cnada that means Shell 91 octane. they have dedicated pumps for the high octane as well so you dont get any ethanol at all. if i have to get fule with ethanol in it i use a product from Lucas Oil called Safeguard. it protects from the harmful effects of ethanol in fuel. it also staboizes ethanol fuel which regular stabilizers cant do. it helps disperse any water that may acrue and conditions seals and gaskets as well as cleaning the combustion chambers and the fuel system and adding upper cylinder lubricity. they have a 16oz bottle that treats 80 gallons of fuel so it is not a pricey addition. i find the higher the ethanol content the worse the bike runs. i have a unique situation to some of my southern brothers in that my bike sometimes has to sit for extended periods of time between rides due to weather ect...

[wiseguy]

Running the risk of upsetting some people here I have to state this....... When I rebuilt the engine in my wifes Jaguar It had 8.9:1 pistons originally(low compression). I purchased high compression pistons for it 9.8:1. Domed pistons. I run premium gas in our jag. It runs better. I have been riding bikes,(Hondas) since I was seven years old. I am now 51 years old. I have always ran Premium gas because the bike runs better. Will your Valk on low octane regular gas? yes. Will it run better on premium gas? Yes

[Disco]

Running the risk of upsetting some people here I have to state this

+1

The subject of Butt Dyno versus Printed Dyno Results has been adequately covered on this Board.  One (care to guess?  ) is considered to be much more reliable than the other, regardless of vintage. 

As for what is high compression in a Jaguar, I'm no expert, but I would imagine that when starting at 8.9:1, 9.8:1 seems high.  Another good example might be found here where the factory 3.98:1 compression ratio of a Model T Ford is discussed briefly.  It says that today's fuels allow Model T engines to perform nicely in the 6:1 range.  I wouldn't call 6:1 high, but compared to 3.98:1 it is. 

Based on a very quick Bing Search for "high compression engine", a Wikipedia result (I know...) includes:

"Motorcycle racing engines can use compression ratios as high as 14:1, and it is not uncommon to find motorcycles with compression ratios above 12.0:1 designed for 86 or 87 octane fuel. F1 engines come closer to 17:1 (which is very critical for maximizing volumetric/fuel efficiency at around 18000 rpm)"  (underline by Disco)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compression_ratio

[9Ball]

I have an all original 1967 F250 4X4 with a 352 v8 and in the owners manual it states that it requires regular gas with an octane of 94 and the compression ratio is 8.9:1. So I run premium in it. I personally prefer to run premium. I have allways ran premium in my bikes starting back in 67 with my Honda 50 minitrail when I was seven years old. Do you remember when the gas was red?

back in the late 60s and early 70s, 94 octane was probably regular grade.  I used to buy Sunoco 105 and Hess 101 as premium grades then...at a price of around $0.40/gallon.  Octane calculations probably changed between then and now...there is now a US standard method for calculating the octane rating.

Buy premium if it makes you feel better or gives you peace of mind, but these bikes run well on regular.  You don't state where you live, but in the higher elevations such as Denver area, 85 octane is regular and 89 is premium.  If you try to run premium at high elevations, such as climbing Mt Evans or Trail Ridge Road, then you will lose an incredible amount of power in your Valk.  Lower octane runs noticeably better in our bikes at extreme altitudes.

Good luck whatever you buy...

[The Anvil]

Lower octane runs noticeably better in our bikes at extreme altitudes.

Yeah that is not true. Unless you have a weak spark your power will not suffer at all on any kind of pump gas. If it does then you have a problem elsewhere that needs to be addressed. 115 race gas? You might see a problem, but not on 93.

[9Ball]

Lower octane runs noticeably better in our bikes at extreme altitudes.

Yeah that is not true. Unless you have a weak spark your power will not suffer at all on any kind of pump gas. If it does then you have a problem elsewhere that needs to be addressed. 115 race gas? You might see a problem, but not on 93.

you my friend are absolutely wrong in this case...there are a large number of us that live and ride in Colorado and adjoining states that have first hand experience with this issue....try replying to something where you actually know what the answer is and have real-world experience, not just your opinion, theory, or what you read on the internet.....

[The Anvil]

Lower octane runs noticeably better in our bikes at extreme altitudes.

Yeah that is not true. Unless you have a weak spark your power will not suffer at all on any kind of pump gas. If it does then you have a problem elsewhere that needs to be addressed. 115 race gas? You might see a problem, but not on 93.

you my friend are absolutely wrong in this case...there are a large number of us that live and ride in Colorado and adjoining states that have first hand experience with this issue....try replying to something where you actually know what the answer is and have real-world experience, not just your opinion, theory, or what you read on the internet.....

Lots of people can be wrong and in this case they (and you) are.

What I'm basing it on is what I know about how octane rating really works (not people's misconceptions), what causes gasoline to burn and from tuning low compression engines (like 7:1, much lower than the Valk's 9.8:1) that run fine at 12,000 feet on 100 octane fuel. If you are having a power loss at a measly 5000 foot altitude then it's a problem elsewhere and not the three octane points of premium fuel. Either that or it's all in your head.

I've also had my bike to the nearly 6300 foot summit of Mount Washington. Ran quite well on premium and made good power considering the thin air.

[9Ball]

Admitting you're wrong or that you don't know what you're talking about will not make us think any less of you here.....

When you actually have first-hand experience riding your Valkyrie at or above 10,000 feet then let us know.

Being a cyber-bully or a keyboard commando will neither make you any more right or any less wrong....take that for what it's worth.

[Kylenav]

I don't think he is wrong at all.  I noticed a difference in the two, I was torn to buy lower octane or higher octane being that high up.  Since I'm used to riding my Valk in south Florida I haven't had to worry about being that high....  I ran both to try them, regular grade did better than the premium grade.  I wouldn't fuss about the difference, but the engine breaking backfire and the power was slightly better with the lower octane.  Ran fine in both, better than any harley that wasn't FI up there for sure  

And since I've been accused in this thread of not knowing something here is my "real world" proof.  photo taken 2 weeks ago, and this was a warm up for CO riding...



If it doesn't work then it's a pic of us at coal bank pass Elev. 10460 ft.  Should qualify me to make input when at altitude.

[Kylenav]

there we go.

[The Anvil]

I don't think he is wrong at all.  I noticed a difference in the two, I was torn to buy lower octane or higher octane being that high up.  Since I'm used to riding my Valk in south Florida I haven't had to worry about being that high....  I ran both to try them, regular grade did better than the premium grade.  I wouldn't fuss about the difference, but the engine breaking backfire and the power was slightly better with the lower octane.  Ran fine in both, better than any harley that wasn't FI up there for sure  

And since I've been accused in this thread of not knowing something here is my "real world" proof.  photo taken 2 weeks ago, and this was a warm up for CO riding...



If it doesn't work then it's a pic of us at coal bank pass Elev. 10460 ft.  Should qualify me to make input when at altitude.

But that could be due to a number of factors completely unrelated to the fuel octane. Premium fuels often have other additives that can affect how your bike runs at altitude. I can see why you might think it's the octane rating under certain circumstances but octane is not a measure of power per unit of volume or how well a fuel burns once ignited by a spark. All other things being equal (and they're not necessarily that way) ie: clean plugs, strong coil voltage, proper carburetor tuning etc. then the fuels will burn in virtually the same manner once ignited by a spark.  Octane rating is just the fuel's resistance to detonation (burning before the spark is introduced into the combustion chamber).

And the difference between 89 and 93 is really very small. Racing fuels are available all the way up to 120 octane.