Parking in gear

[NCGhostrider]

My bike is in gear when I get off, unless it is in its garage, where I know the floor is level, and no one is going to mess with it.

I also get off at the fuel pump.  I usually need to stretch my legs anyway, besides, who wants to deal with the gas burping that valks seem to do when filling up.  I invariably have to wipe the gas off the tank, so I need a towel from the bag or something.  Besides, I sure don't want to risk some idiot coming in to get gas, and hit me while I am distracted. Its bad enough at the red lights and stop signs.

As for starting up on inclines.  I never thought about it.  Right foot on brake, right hand clear to twist throttle and press starter button (I love to blip it....just love the sound of it).  It also leaves you in more control of an emergency power down if needed (easier to hit kill switch), and you have both hands available to easily steer if you need to haul a$$$!   

Do what suits you.  Arguing this point is like arguing politics and having opinions and A$$4013s we all have them!!!   

Craig
NcGhostrider
99 I/S

[DarkMeister]

Couple of deep shallow thoughts on this.
I never park in neutral and always roll off the slack before parking. My vision is 20/20 but I don't trust it to detect slopes. Ground may look flat, but why chance it.

Left foot down, right on brake: I've forced myself to practice this a lot more since the summer road-trip. Got caught at a red light, sitting up an incline that boggled the mind. Wife and luggage on the back. Think I sat through several lights, stalling, rolling backwards into traffic and generally blushing, before catching on about the foot brake. Yes, that stance feels odd at first, balance etc... but better overall control. 

[F6Mark]

So, regarding the issue of whether to park in gear or in neutral, I really had no idea anyone would ever just take their vehicle (bike/trike/car/tractor/skateboard) out of gear, park and walk away.
Most people lock their doors and roll up their windows before they leave their vehicle for a variery of reasons, but evidently some of those same peopel leave it in neutral, just waiting for any Tom, Dick or Harry to push the [locked vehicle] down the road and away somewhere.
Also I saw a video that showed a bike parked in neutral get rear-ended by a car and the bike kind of took off across the parking lot.  Course it still would have been bad even if it was in gear.

[fudgie]

So, regarding the issue of whether to park in gear or in neutral, I really had no idea anyone would ever just take their vehicle (bike/trike/car/tractor/skateboard) out of gear, park and walk away.
Most people lock their doors and roll up their windows before they leave their vehicle for a variery of reasons, but evidently some of those same peopel leave it in neutral, just waiting for any Tom, Dick or Harry to push the [locked vehicle] down the road and away somewhere.
Also I saw a video that showed a bike parked in neutral get rear-ended by a car and the bike kind of took off across the parking lot.  Course it still would have been bad even if it was in gear.

I rarley take the key out of mine even in Sturgis. Also have a spare key on it. Only lock the bags when I have a handgun in it. I figure if someone wants it, they will get it either way. Its insurered. My HD bud has his spare key on a key ring hanging over his antenna. 

[MP]

Takes  a bit of practice, then you will enjoy the freedom.....Feels very stable to me, been doing it left foot down only for years now....one up, two up, slopes.......on the rare ocassion I need the right foot BOOM its there, not a big thing

Yeah, especially the BOOM when the bike starts rolling uncontrollably because, the right foot forgot about the job it was doing holding the bike, and you're crashing into the motorcycle behind you!  Does you rider appreciate how you risk their injury with unnecessary and careless riding habits?

***

You very funny guy Ricky.......the Motorcycle Safety Foundation teaches left foot down, first gear, right foot on the brake EVERYTIME you stop...for SAFETY.  The fact that you dont practice it and feel unsafe doing it doesnt make it irresponsible motorcycling, in fact the opposite is true.  Not taking the time to practice riding skills like this or counter steering, counter leaning....slow riding, panic stops and such are what differentiate motorcycle "DRIVERS" that can physically make the machine go and stop and maybe get somewhere, to a "RIDER" that can get the maximum safety, performance and enjoyment from their motorcycling experience............oh, will you stop sucking on that lemon already you are always so sour  

Thank you for the compliments but I must point out that you are incorrect in what you say and including a few truths will not make the falsehood that you state any more palatable (ie:left foot down). Or, as maybe was your individual case, the instructor just got it wrong.

***

I was taught in the week long course in WA, by a former Seattle Motorcop Head Instructor, to have the left foot down, and right foot on the brake pedal.  But, I imagine your idea of what is wrong is so much more correct than MSF and police instructors.

MP

[fudgie]

When I pull up to the pump I put both feet down, knock it to N, hand on the brake. Kit flips up the left floor board (so I can get to the kick stand) and gets off. I turn it off and get off. Simple. I also use the hand brake while she climbs on.

[Chrisj CMA]

So, regarding the issue of whether to park in gear or in neutral, I really had no idea anyone would ever just take their vehicle (bike/trike/car/tractor/skateboard) out of gear, park and walk away.
Most people lock their doors and roll up their windows before they leave their vehicle for a variery of reasons, but evidently some of those same peopel leave it in neutral, just waiting for any Tom, Dick or Harry to push the [locked vehicle] down the road and away somewhere.
Also I saw a video that showed a bike parked in neutral get rear-ended by a car and the bike kind of took off across the parking lot.  Course it still would have been bad even if it was in gear.

I could understand this if you needed a key to get it out of gear, but all one has to do is pull the clutch or tap the shifter and its rolling if it can roll.  In or out of neutral is not a security issue, its a safety issue.

I have had my Valkyrie for 9 years (almost) and I have parked it in gear two or three times when I didnt trust the turf I had to park on........the rest of the time all in neutral and never a hint of trouble.  

[PhredValk]

I park in neutral unless I don't trust the slant of the pavement as I tend to start her up and let her run while I'm putting on the hat and gloves.

Here in Alberta, you fail your bike license road test if you EVER put both feet on the ground with the engine running.
Fred.

[Ricky-D]

I park in neutral unless I don't trust the slant of the pavement as I tend to start her up and let her run while I'm putting on the hat and gloves.

Here in Alberta, you fail your bike license road test if you EVER put both feet on the ground with the engine running.
Fred.

I doubt that very seriously.

More likely: You will fail the test if your feet touch the ground while still moving.

Under your scenario you would necessarily have to shut the motor off every time you have to come to a stop!

***

[Chrisj CMA]

I park in neutral unless I don't trust the slant of the pavement as I tend to start her up and let her run while I'm putting on the hat and gloves.

Here in Alberta, you fail your bike license road test if you EVER put both feet on the ground with the engine running.
Fred.

I doubt that very seriously.

More likely: You will fail the test if your feet touch the ground while still moving.

Under your scenario you would necessarily have to shut the motor off every time you have to come to a stop!

***

He didnt say either foot, he said both...........the object there I guess is to remember to have the right foot on the brake........I rarely put both feet down when I stop and funny...I dont have to shut the motor off.  Still have that lemon I see

[Ricky-D]

All who preach, through being taught, by whatever "authority" or whatever "expert" and under the auspices of the Motorcycle Safety Foundation, the following premise.
Namely: to stop with the right foot on the brake and the left foot on the ground

Are getting it wrong!

Nowhere in the MSF Motorcycle Operator Manual will you find such an outrageous teaching.

To the contrary, in the MSF manual it is taught to stop the bike in as much of an upright position as possible. 

From the manual:"by the time the motorcycle is stopped, the motorcycle is straight up, and the handlebars are squared."

Maybe there are some that need to take the MSF course over again.

***

[PhredValk]

Left foot down, right foot on the brake (and the tester expects the brake light to be ON all the time the bike is stopped). It's a test of balance and experience.
I only put both feet down if my hands are off the bars, tugging gloves or digging for a smoke etc.
Fred.

[Chrisj CMA]

All who preach, through being taught, by whatever "authority" or whatever "expert" and under the auspices of the Motorcycle Safety Foundation, the following premise.
Namely: to stop with the right foot on the brake and the left foot on the ground

Are getting it wrong!

Nowhere in the MSF Motorcycle Operator Manual will you find such an outrageous teaching.

To the contrary, in the MSF manual it is taught to stop the bike in as much of an upright position as possible. 

From the manual:"by the time the motorcycle is stopped, the motorcycle is straight up, and the handlebars are squared."

Maybe there are some that need to take the MSF course over again.

***

Put the lemon down, and walk away

[Ricky-D]

Left foot down, right foot on the brake (and the tester expects the brake light to be ON all the time the bike is stopped). It's a test of balance and experience.
I only put both feet down if my hands are off the bars, tugging gloves or digging for a smoke etc.
Fred.

You evidently don't know that the brake light will illuminate as well with the front brake applied.

And besides that, you're failing the tester since under your stated position no brake light is illuminating.

***

[fudgie]

Do you need a illuminated tail light as your stopped at a gas pump?  ???

[Valkpilot]

All who preach, through being taught, by whatever "authority" or whatever "expert" and under the auspices of the Motorcycle Safety Foundation, the following premise.
Namely: to stop with the right foot on the brake and the left foot on the ground

Are getting it wrong!

Nowhere in the MSF Motorcycle Operator Manual will you find such an outrageous teaching.

To the contrary, in the MSF manual it is taught to stop the bike in as much of an upright position as possible.  

From the manual:"by the time the motorcycle is stopped, the motorcycle is straight up, and the handlebars are squared."

Maybe there are some that need to take the MSF course over again.

***

The quote from the manual you referenced is in the braking section, but it is referring to the postion of the bike immediately prior to putting the left foot down, as taught by the instructors.  

No mention of feet on the ground is in the manual, left, right, or both, except for this passage discussing starting up an incline: "Special skill is required to start out on a hill.  A good technique is to apply a brake to prevent the motorcycle from rolling backward while you move the clutch to the friction zone. Often the rear brake is used; but,  if you need to keep both feet down for balance  you could use the front brake..."

The two phrases I highlighted in italics

• support other posts in this thread regarding an effective technique for starting uphill
• emphasize that the rear brake is most often used in this position, meaning that only the left foot is on the ground
• imply that both feet on the ground is on a "need to" basis and not typical

There's even a name for left foot on the ground, bike in gear, right foot on the brake.  It's called The Safety Position.

[Chrisj CMA]

All who preach, through being taught, by whatever "authority" or whatever "expert" and under the auspices of the Motorcycle Safety Foundation, the following premise.
Namely: to stop with the right foot on the brake and the left foot on the ground

Are getting it wrong!

Nowhere in the MSF Motorcycle Operator Manual will you find such an outrageous teaching.

To the contrary, in the MSF manual it is taught to stop the bike in as much of an upright position as possible.  

From the manual:"by the time the motorcycle is stopped, the motorcycle is straight up, and the handlebars are squared."

Maybe there are some that need to take the MSF course over again.

***

The quote from the manual you referenced is in the braking section, but it is referring to the postion of the bike immediately prior to putting the left foot down, as taught by the instructors.  

No mention of feet on the ground is in the manual, left, right, or both, except for this passage discussing starting up an incline: "Special skill is required to start out on a hill.  A good technique is to apply a brake to prevent the motorcycle from rolling backward while you move the clutch to the friction zone. Often the rear brake is used; but,  if you need to keep both feet down for balance  you could use the front brake..."

The two phrases I highlighted in italics

• support other posts in this thread regarding an effective technique for starting uphill
• emphasize that the rear brake is most often used in this position, meaning that only the left foot is on the ground
• imply that both feet on the ground is on a "need to" basis and not typical

There's even a name for left foot on the ground, bike in gear, right foot on the brake.  It's called The Safety Position.

Valkpilot, I guess it wont matter how much reason, fact, and truth about this particular riding skill is posted.  Ricky cant do it (obviously) wont practice it, so he just condemns it to the point that even the MSF must be wrong for teaching it (in two countries no less) because the world knows ol lemon sucker cant be wrong

[tmfp]

Police Riders in the UK are instructed thus, aka "The Hendon Shuffle", named after their HQ:

·        Graded or feathered braking with both brakes to achieve a smooth/jerk free stop.

·        Changing down the gears towards the end of braking, using either sequential or block gear changing - here is a topic in its own right - see MotorCycle RoadCraft, chapter 4, page 74).

·        Engaging neutral, just before actually stopping – to keep coasting to a minimum – placing the, usually nowadays, right (brake) foot on the ground.  Natural road camber assists those who, like me, suffer from “Duck’s Disease” (little, short legs).

·        Keeping the front brake applied to hold the bike and show the stop light. Left foot ready to engage gear and go, go, go if danger appears from the rear. 

You are, aren’t you, watching your mirrors until you have the protection of a few vehicles stopped behind you? 

And you will have stopped, well away, at least, a bike length, possibly more, from the vehicle ahead – assuming filtering was ill-advised - so that you can easily ride around the vehicle in front of you should  the need arise.

When preparing to move off: -

·        Clutch in and engage gear.

·        Balance throttle, clutch and release of front brake (though if on a steep uphill slope the foot brake may need to be re-applied to prevent a roll back, it depends upon the skill of the rider). 

And, yes, if one were moving off down a steep hill, or in slow moving traffic, then the foot brake might also be needed.

·        Foot onto footrest as soon as one is moving.

·        Avoid “trailing” either foot when on the move (either moving off or prior to stopping), a la many racing motorcyclists, it is unnecessary, untidy and reduces machine control.


This thread is driving me crazy, I found myself experimenting with every possible combination at a series of stop lights today.

I remember a while back on my VLX 600, stopping full anchors on from about 50 mph.
As I stopped dead I rolled off the front brake perfectly, and remained upright and stationary for about three seconds with both feet on the pegs.

I also thought recently about a right hand side stand as well on the Valk I'm customizing.
Only briefly, though. 
 




 

[highcountry]

I park in drive except in the garage.

[Valkahuna]

Takes  a bit of practice, then you will enjoy the freedom.....Feels very stable to me, been doing it left foot down only for years now....one up, two up, slopes.......on the rare ocassion I need the right foot BOOM its there, not a big thing

Yeah, especially the BOOM when the bike starts rolling uncontrollably because, the right foot forgot about the job it was doing holding the bike, and you're crashing into the motorcycle behind you!  Does you rider appreciate how you risk their injury with unnecessary and careless riding habits?

***

How is your bike going to start "rolling uncontrollably" when your foot is already on the brake?


I'm firmly in the Chris camp with this one.  I left foot down, right on the brake most all the time.  I find it gives me more control.  

I have to approach and enter a military gate on a very busy and crowded AF base all the time.  The traffic crawls approaching the gate.  Most other bikes I see (mostly Harley owners and sport bikes) do the duck walk as they approach the gate.  I do the left foot down and right foot on the brake thing.  Maybe I'm in a minority with Chris, but it works for me.  

+1 Not because it is how I do it, but it is the right way and the way it is taught in Skilled and advanced riders courses. Think about it! Why would you jeopardize your safety by doing convoluted movements with your throttle hand? Do you honestly think that the guy in FRONT of you should be jeopardized by your unsafe, and illogical action of doing two things with your throttle hand, causing you to uncontrollably accelerate and ram into his rear fender???

[BnB Tom]

Don't suppose any of you are old enough to remember 'stick shift' (or standard transmission) cars?

   Those are the type that require using the clutch, shifting the gears and parking on all types of surfaces.

Back then, you ALWAYS parked in gear or your car probably wouldn't be where you left it when you got back to it.

  Yes, I know, when you parked your car in neutral, you could use the 'emergency brake' and all would be fine.. not really.  Most of the time the emergency brakes on cars weren't so hot.  SOooo.  Parking in gear (usually low or reverse) was a matter of habit.

Now.  Since there is no emergency brake on (most) two-wheelers, as a 'matter of habit' I have always parked in gear.  My bike has always been where I parked it when I got back to ride.  AND.. I don't have to go through the "what type of surface did I park on?" list.
 
             - Did I park on a flat surface and leave my bike in neutral? -
 - Did I park on an uneven surface and leave my bike in gear? -

I guess when you get to be my age, its better for me to do it the same way as I've always done it so I don't have to rummage throught my mental cobwebs prior to getting back on the road. 

          may the force be with you

[Chrisj CMA]

I have to say that after days of thinking about this........its hard to defend the parking in neutral habit. Just because I usually park in neutral, I have to admit theres really not a positive and a few neagtives for doing such.  I think I will try to retrain 35 years of habit.  I want to change to parking in gear for two reasons......1. seems safer, 2. trying and learning new and different things the mind sharp.......I always hated the answer "thats how we always did it"  The one thing I wont do (and you shouldnt either unless you want a dead battery) is to use the kill switch or the kickstand as the primary engine stop when parking........someday you will forget the key, I see it every time in Daytona in our parking lot.  I use the key every time to turn off the motor, that will not change

But I will continue to stop with the right foot on the brake, in first gear(clutch in) and left foot down.  I am a believer in that position of safety technique.  If someone doesnt like it and prefers two feet down, no criticism from me unless they are too stubborn to try it first before condemning it

[The Anvil]

Don't suppose any of you are old enough to remember 'stick shift' (or standard transmission) cars?

They still make them. 

[Chrisj CMA]

Don't suppose any of you are old enough to remember 'stick shift' (or standard transmission) cars?

They still make them. 

My truck is standard, but one thing it doesnt have is a KICKSTAND

[DarkMeister]

"The one thing I wont do (and you shouldnt either unless you want a dead battery) is to use the kill switch or the kickstand as the primary engine stop when parking........"

Ditto. That's one thing I really, REALLY have to learn. Always use my kickstand and have left the ignition on many times. One of these days it's going to kick me in the butt.

[Farther]

Don't suppose any of you are old enough to remember 'stick shift' (or standard transmission) cars?

Huh?  There are a 2010 and 2006 Honda cars sitting in my drive with manual transmissions.  
Where do you shop for cars?

[tmfp]

Don't suppose any of you are old enough to remember 'stick shift' (or standard transmission) cars?

Huh?  There are a 2010 and 2006 Honda cars sitting in my drive with manual transmissions.  
Where do you shop for cars?

I take it you are a Honda fan, Farther 

Do you have to take a separate driving test in America for auto and stick shift cars?

[Chrisj CMA]

Don't suppose any of you are old enough to remember 'stick shift' (or standard transmission) cars?

Huh?  There are a 2010 and 2006 Honda cars sitting in my drive with manual transmissions.  
Where do you shop for cars?

I take it you are a Honda fan, Farther 

Do you have to take a separate driving test in America for auto and stick shift cars?

no seperate test....you can test on an auto tranny, get the license....then you are free to strip the grears of your dads pickup trying to learn how to manage a stick legally

[BnB Tom]

... and the beat goes on

[czuch]

I suppose if you dont do it like I do,,,,,,YOURE WRONG!!!!!!!!!
Well,,,,,thats right.

[Rocketman]

First you have to hold the front brake on to keep the bike from rolling backwards, stand the bike up to get the kickstand up, put the bike into neutral so you can use the left hand to push the starter button. I know you can push the button with the throttle hand, but that is always an awkward exercise when you are still holding the brake to keep from rolling.

You lost me way back when you stated you aren't coordinated enough to hold the brake and hit the starter button with the same hand.  Any further discussion about fine motor skills and what is achievable seems superfluous. 

[..]

Right foot brake.

Left foot down.

Any other way is generally wrong.

Disagree all you like. You're wrong and not as safe as we.

On a STEEP slope how do you hold the front brake and control the throttle efficiently?

Do you manouver the bike whilst parking in neutral or first gear?

[BigAl]

I carry a 50 pound rock to scotch the wheel.

You never know when a 50 pound rock is gonna come in handy.

[DenverDave]

Using your right hand to hold the brake and twist the throttle, that is crazy talk. Next you'll be telling us you could do the same thing with your right foot in a car with a manual transmission...........oh yea you can.   

Heel & toe shifting

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heel-and-toe

Dave

[Valkpilot]

I carry a 50 pound rock to scotch the wheel.

You never know when a 50 pound rock is gonna come in handy.

It's true.  You never know when you might need one for chunkin' at somebody.

[Canuck]

Jerry says:

Motorman's Safety Tip: Start on a Hill	powered by Aeva

I'm typically right foot on brake and left foot down, but depending on the cant of the road, I've done it the other way too.  I don't think there is a right or wrong, just what your comfortable with.  If you watch Ride Like a Pro, Motorman does it both ways.  At a stop, I'm always watching for cars coming up behind me and will flash my brake lights to catch their attention regardless if they are slowing down.  I want to be seen.  I will also flash my brake lights approaching a stop as well.  They may not be watching me, but I'm watching them.

Like others have said, I park in gear except in the garage so I can back it out without searching for nuetral.  I stop the bike by dropping the kickstand in gear.  I have 'yet' to leave the ignition on.

Now, the foot draggers - that's what drives me nuts!

[The Anvil]

Using your right hand to hold the brake and twist the throttle, that is crazy talk. Next you'll be telling us you could do the same thing with your right foot in a car with a manual transmission...........oh yea you can.   

Heel & toe shifting

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heel-and-toe

Dave

Heel and toe is a method of changing gear whilst the vehicle is in motion. NOT at rest.

Yes, but it can also be used to get moving on a hill from a rest. Heel on the brake, toe the gas pedal, release the clutch wile pivoting your foot off the brake. You can use the handbrake method too but not all cars have hand brakes.

[bigfish_Oh]

It never occurred to me to park in neutral, why waste the energy to try and find it ????? I never have and never will unless an unwanted safety switch makes me. I have used the parking brake on a manual car twice in my life. 82-92 Camaro's with manual's had real issues with parking brakes. No one used them enough to keep them "loose" or adjusted, you'll probably never find one that works.

  I have always used right foot down, I can very easily stand flat footed, but always stay on my toes. 2 feet down is if she moves(very rarely at stops) and for stretching. right foot down on my toes was easy when all my friends condemned the CBX for being heavily and auckward and they couldn't stay straight up with 2 legs on their 'finely balanced' lighter bikes.

 

[Jeff K]

As far as parking goes, I don't give it much thought.
I Never had a bike roll away, so I guess I'm parking correctly.
As far as stopping Left foot down.
As far as shutting the bike off. I was always taught to use the kill switch, so I always have. I pocket the key.

I watched a guy back flip an interstate in the middle of a crowded parking lot at bike night at a local wing joint. He pulled up and started walking the bike backward into a parking spot that was slightly uphill, he had the bike in gear, clutch pulled in. He started to fall to the left and in his effort to hold the bike up he twisted the grip to full throttle. He couldn't hold the bike and when he let go of the clutch the bike SHOT forward and wheelied over backward while hitting the curb on the island across from him. It actually flipped in mid air. The fact that it missed all the people and all the bikes was amazing. The bike was totaled. The guy standing next to me said "not again!" He said the guy had just gotten the Valk because he wrecked another bike the same way. WTH??

[Misfit]

Chris is right. Left foot on the ground right foot on the brake. How do I know he is right? Because that is the way I do it. Ricky D you're wrong.