Shrine of the most Blessed Sarament.....

[Highbinder]

The Shrine is located just outside of Cullman, Ala....millions of dollars have gone into building this estate, it is huge....I was told people from all around the world come here to pray...almost all  the wood work in it was hand craved and the armour is anicent....this is the plaza all layed out with 6" hand placed stone



All the doors and archways have these type of casting on them, there were hundreds of them...



They even had a dragon in side the fort...



This is where the main church is, inside was all marble and stone, with what appeared to be a golden shrine that was massive, we were not allow to photogragh the inside...



These are the door handles on the huge doors that opened to the fort like building, the doors were perfectly balanced to swing with the lightest touch...



Inside was all sorts of armour from the middle ages along with lances and coats of arms...





The woodwork was outstanding and all hand craved with rawd iron bolts and straps...





If you ever get the chance to visit Cullman, be sure to go here this is just a sample of the wonders there....we had been here before, but it was the first time we were actually able to go inside the builds, even Winghot who lives in town said it was the first time he had been inside...and of course stop by and see Winghot at the Downtown Grill, you'll be glad you made the trip....

[The Anvil]

Are your prayers amplified by dollars and ornaments and artifacts priceless? Does the lord light shine less brightly among dull, utilitarian surroundings? Is god made happy by empty young stomachs for the erection of gaudy houses in his "name"?

[BigAl]

Damn Pretty Church.

Thanks for sharing.

I have been there, but never inside the place.,

They don't let just anybody in, esp. if they look like me.

Thanks

Big Al

Response is for Anvil and no one else. I approve this message.

Jesus said the poor will always exist, and can be helped whenever you desire. But the woman annointed his head with the costly

alebastron, getting him ready for his grave.


 

Some of the onlookers are angered because the perfume could have been sold for a year's wages, which Mark enumerates as 300 denarii, and the money given to the poor. The Gospel of Matthew states that the "disciples were indignant" and John's gospel states that it was Judas who was most offended. John adds that he was bothered because he (Judas) was a thief and desired the money for himself. justifying the aJesus is described as action of the woman by stating that the poor will always exist, and can be helped whenever desired. While some scholars have criticized this response as lax morality, others have responded that due to his impending crucifixion, Jesus is simply explaining that what was done was not a choice between two moral acts, but a necessity, and would no more be criticized in Jesus' day as a modern man purchasing a coffin for a loved one, even though there are poor that could be fed instead.
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[The Anvil]

Response is for Anvil and no one else. I approve this message.

Jesus said the poor will always exist, and can be helped whenever you desire. But the woman annointed his head with the costly

alebastron, getting him ready for his grave.


 

Some of the onlookers are angered because the perfume could have been sold for a year's wages, which Mark enumerates as 300 denarii, and the money given to the poor. The Gospel of Matthew states that the "disciples were indignant" and John's gospel states that it was Judas who was most offended. John adds that he was bothered because he (Judas) was a thief and desired the money for himself. justifying the aJesus is described as action of the woman by stating that the poor will always exist, and can be helped whenever desired. While some scholars have criticized this response as lax morality, others have responded that due to his impending crucifixion, Jesus is simply explaining that what was done was not a choice between two moral acts, but a necessity, and would no more be criticized in Jesus' day as a modern man purchasing a coffin for a loved one, even though there are poor that could be fed instead.
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It's a waste either way. I'm thinking Jesus wouldn't have wasted the money on himself and I'm way more interested in what Jesus would have done.

But the questions I asked in the first post remain unanswered.

[BigAl]

No,,, he is not impressed by gaudy houses as you put it.

In fact he is no respector of persons period.

What he will do for you, he will do for anybody.

And vice versa.

So there you go.

An answer.

[The Anvil]

No,,, he is not impressed by gaudy houses as you put it.

Fair enough. But that's kind of my point; these things are more for us than god.

[Farther]

I am always amazed at anybody that knows the mind of God.

[The Anvil]

I am always amazed at anybody that knows the mind of God.

I don't really claim to know the mind of god. But I choose to believe his priorities are in order. If the lord IS impressed with hungry bellies in exchange for ostentatious palaces built in his name then I want nothing to do with that god.

[BigAl]

If you want to know the mind of God Read his book.

That is where I am getting my info.

Anybody can read it and ask for guidance from him and he will guide you.

Man kind will lead you wrong everytime.

Including me,, of course.

So read it for yourself and you will be surpised what you will find.

[Farther]

My comments were not directed at only you Anvil.

[Highbinder]

Are your prayers amplified by dollars and ornaments and artifacts priceless? Does the lord light shine less brightly among dull, utilitarian surroundings? Is god made happy by empty young stomachs for the erection of gaudy houses in his "name"?

My interest in this place is simply the workmanship and designs of the buildings, along with seeing the artifacts from times long gone...I have no religious inspirations about the place at all...my house of god is just outside my front door and always has been....so I can't answer your question only give an opinion....which I do not care to do....

[Farther]

If you want to know the mind of God Read his book......So read it for yourself and you will be surpised what you will find.

So you presume that I have not read the Bible?

[The Anvil]

Are your prayers amplified by dollars and ornaments and artifacts priceless? Does the lord light shine less brightly among dull, utilitarian surroundings? Is god made happy by empty young stomachs for the erection of gaudy houses in his "name"?

My interest in this place is simply the workmanship and designs of the building, along with seeing the artifacts from times long gone...I have no religious inspirations about the place at all...my house of god is just outside my front door and always has been....so I can't answer your question only give an opinion....which I do not care to do....

When I asked the questions I meant "you" in the general sense, it was not directed at any one person in particular.

[Chrisj CMA]

exactly Highbinder........my thoughts are the same.  It is a beautiful place and just because a religion was behind building it makes it no less beautiful.  Religions are all man made, flawed, and not what Jesus was impressed with.

I felt no special prayer power or any power when I visited the Vatican in Rome either....Just a beautiful building......has nothing to do with what Jesus talked about in the New Testament as far as what is important....just a beautiful place also made by the same (or similar) religion.

[Skinhead]

Are your prayers amplified by dollars and ornaments and artifacts priceless? Does the lord light shine less brightly among dull, utilitarian surroundings? Is god made happy by empty young stomachs for the erection of gaudy houses in his "name"?

My interest in this place is simply the workmanship and designs of the buildings, along with seeing the artifacts from times long gone...I have no religious inspirations about the place at all...my house of god is just outside my front door and always has been....so I can't answer your question only give an opinion....which I do not care to do....

+1, Thanks for the post.  Beautiful place.

[Tropic traveler]

Are your prayers amplified by dollars and ornaments and artifacts priceless? Does the lord light shine less brightly among dull, utilitarian surroundings? Is god made happy by empty young stomachs for the erection of gaudy houses in his "name"?

Boiling down this sentiment I can only come to the conclusion that you think any religious organization that has anything more than is needed to function is not doing it's best to help their God & his wishes.
I tend to agree.

I wish that those who are critical of organized religion in this manner could see the same fault in the secular side as well. Example, the horrendous waste of the peoples resources by government at all levels.

Differences are the religous "waste" is of donated moneys while the government waste is of confiscated money.  

[Willow]

Are your prayers amplified by dollars and ornaments and artifacts priceless? Does the lord light shine less brightly among dull, utilitarian surroundings? Is god made happy by empty young stomachs for the erection of gaudy houses in his "name"?

It's moderately amusing to hear people set up their own arguments based upon silly assumptions trying to sound profound.

To answer the questions (sort of), Obviously not, certainly not, and of course not, but none of those have much to do with people's choices to build this or that house of worship.  I think someone would have to look into the specific history of that particular structure to know whether it was built at the price of empty young stomachs.

In the Biblical story Al posted a disciple, Judas, asked almost that same question regarding the contents of the alabaster jar.  Specifically, he asked why it wasn't sold and the proceeds used to feed the poor.  The writer goes on to explain that Judas asked that question not because he was concerned about the poor, but because he handled the purse and wanted to get his hands on the money.

It seems a little hypocritical to me that some folks look at a house of worship and ask why the money used to erect it wasn't sent to feed the poor, but it never occurs to those same people that they themselves could live in smaller houses and give the savings to feed those same poor.  I'm not speaking specifically of you, Jamie, as I'm sure you do donate a large portion of your income to the poor and live at a bare subsistence level to do so.

People who choose to build nice churches do so to express with their limited monetary resources how important their faith is to them.  I think that's likely true of people of all faiths, Christian and non-Christian.  I'm sure it's not true across the board, but often if we look into it we'll find those same people also give of their means to feed the poor.

I do understand the perspective, though.  I have a similar feeling when I see an ornate sports arena, but then all that construction does provide jobs.  Maybe even jobs for the poor, do you think?

Anyway, that's my two cents worth.  Well, maybe a nickel's worth.  I'm not really interested in arguing the points, so I won't.  I was only interested in sharing my opinion.   

[The Anvil]

In the Biblical story Al posted a disciple, Judas, asked almost that same question regarding the contents of the alabaster jar.  Specifically, he asked why it wasn't sold and the proceeds used to feed the poor.  The writer goes on to explain that Judas asked that question not because he was concerned about the poor, but because he handled the purse and wanted to get his hands on the money.

Speaking of silly assumptions, how do we actually know that this was Judas's motivation? Do you think maybe Judas has had some pretty nasty things attributed to him over the years and that maybe (just maybe) he might not have actually been responsible for all of them? Judas is everyone's punching bag. Not saying he didn't bring it on himself but keep that in perspective when speaking of assumptions.

It seems a little hypocritical to me that some folks look at a house of worship and ask why the money used to erect it wasn't sent to feed the poor, but it never occurs to those same people that they themselves could live in smaller houses and give the savings to feed those same poor.  I'm not speaking specifically of you, Jamie, as I'm sure you do donate a large portion of your income to the poor and live at a bare subsistence level to do so.

Speaking of silly assumptions, you don't know what size house I live in nor what I do with the money I don't spend paying for it. Now, you may not have been referring directly to me, but I'm willing to bet you don't REALLY know what most other people do with their money either. You might be kind of surprised.

People who choose to build nice churches do so to express with their limited monetary resources how important their faith is to them.  I think that's likely true of people of all faiths, Christian and non-Christian.  I'm sure it's not true across the board, but often if we look into it we'll find those same people also give of their means to feed the poor.

You can do all of that without spending millions. You also don't need billions (with a B) worth of fine art, basilicas, land holdings etc. We have quite a nice and very modest church here in town that does good work (in fact we have a few but I'm speaking directly of mine). In it's 300 year history it's changed very little physically besides being enlarged in the 1800's for the growing congregation.

I do understand the perspective, though.  I have a similar feeling when I see an ornate sports arena, but then all that construction does provide jobs.  Maybe even jobs for the poor, do you think?

Sports arenas provide many jobs well beyond their initial construction. Sports arenas are economic movers and contributors in big ways and generate revenue for cities and states. Hundreds of stadium workers are employed through various events not to mention the secondary industries, television, radio etc. Gaudy churches? Notsomuch. It's a poor analogy.

Anyway, that's my two cents worth.  Well, maybe a nickel's worth.  I'm not really interested in arguing the points, so I won't.  I was only interested in sharing my opinion.

Actually, you kind of did argue some points already.     [/i]

[Romeo]

Are your prayers amplified by dollars and ornaments and artifacts priceless? Does the lord light shine less brightly among dull, utilitarian surroundings? Is god made happy by empty young stomachs for the erection of gaudy houses in his "name"?

It's moderately amusing to hear people set up their own arguments based upon silly assumptions trying to sound profound.

To answer the questions (sort of), Obviously not, certainly not, and of course not, but none of those have much to do with people's choices to build this or that house of worship.  I think someone would have to look into the specific history of that particular structure to know whether it was built at the price of empty young stomachs.

In the Biblical story Al posted a disciple, Judas, asked almost that same question regarding the contents of the alabaster jar.  Specifically, he asked why it wasn't sold and the proceeds used to feed the poor.  The writer goes on to explain that Judas asked that question not because he was concerned about the poor, but because he handled the purse and wanted to get his hands on the money.

It seems a little hypocritical to me that some folks look at a house of worship and ask why the money used to erect it wasn't sent to feed the poor, but it never occurs to those same people that they themselves could live in smaller houses and give the savings to feed those same poor.  I'm not speaking specifically of you, Jamie, as I'm sure you do donate a large portion of your income to the poor and live at a bare subsistence level to do so.

People who choose to build nice churches do so to express with their limited monetary resources how important their faith is to them.  I think that's likely true of people of all faiths, Christian and non-Christian.  I'm sure it's not true across the board, but often if we look into it we'll find those same people also give of their means to feed the poor.

I do understand the perspective, though.  I have a similar feeling when I see an ornate sports arena, but then all that construction does provide jobs.  Maybe even jobs for the poor, do you think?

Anyway, that's my two cents worth.  Well, maybe a nickel's worth.  I'm not really interested in arguing the points, so I won't.  I was only interested in sharing my opinion.   

Thanks Willow, as usual, your wisdom is surpassed only by your common se :cooldude:nse.

[Willow]

Anyway, that's my two cents worth.  Well, maybe a nickel's worth.  I'm not really interested in further arguing the points, so I won't.  I was only interested in sharing my opinion.

Actually, you kind of did argue some points already.     [/i]

The point is well made (at least that one) and accepted.

I've fixed it for you.      

[CajunRider]

And now back to our regularly scheduled programming.....

AWESOME pictures Hotglue!!!!  I shall have to save that location in my bank of "places to visit"!!

I think I can talk my wife into a 3 or 4 day bike trip just to visit that!    

[Dave Ritsema]

Thanks for the post Highbinder, it certainly looks like an interesting place to visit and appreciate the craftmanship of its construction.

Willow, as always, your wisdom is sound.

I found a site that explained more about it, if the link has already been posted I apologize, there was a fair amount of proselytizing to get thru and I may have missed it. 

http://www.co.cullman.al.us/Press/attractions_shrine.htm

[solo1]

Thank you for the interesting post and pictures, Don.  That is a great illustration of man's work.  Typical excellent travelog that I see here on the VRCC all the time. 

I also appreciated your 'church' of the outdoors.  . That is my 'church' also.

 I believe  that a church does not need to be a physical structure made by man.  In fact, it's not even important that it should be.

 As Jesus said,  " Where two or more are gathered in my Name, there am I in the midst of them."

That is what I believe, all worldly possessions aside.   No further comment on that.

Again, Don, thanks for the pictures and captions of a beautiful place.

Wayne, Solo1

[DarkMeister]

Must be a Valkyrie thing...but I feel sad for that poor dragon. 

[3fan4life]

NICE PICS DON and thank you for taking the time to post them.

I am both utterly amazed and appalled that someone could find a way to turn your post into an argument.

I guess some people just want to argue and will find a way to do so no matter what the subject. 

   

[BigAl]

Farther thanks for asking anyway.

I know you have read the bible.

That's where we learn from him and past miracles.

It's best expression is the love shown by people who know him and that draws you closer to the real God of the Bible.

Not the one the world thinks they know or choose not to believe in.

This is like car tires you either believe in car tires or you don't . There is no in middle place.

Remember no in between.

[Gryphon Rider]

Are your prayers amplified by dollars and ornaments and artifacts priceless? Does the lord light shine less brightly among dull, utilitarian surroundings? Is god made happy by empty young stomachs for the erection of gaudy houses in his "name"?

I am unfamiliar with the complex Highbinder visited and how many children starved to build it, but I have seen a few building fund drives at local churches.  The typical appeal for money for these building is made encouraging donation above regular giving and not to the neglect of those in need, but rather at the sacrifice of personal extras.  The new construction is typically to accommodate increased attendance or to facilitate new programs or outreaches.

I grew up in a denomination that did not build cathedrals, but I can tell you that when I go into a grand old church with soaring arches and stained glass windows and a beautiful pipe organ, it affects my temperament.  The architecture serves to allow one to tune out the outside world and to focus on worship of and communication with God.  How brightly God shines on this planet to some degree depends on the attitudes and actions of His people, and if the reverence that a building inspires serves to redirect our efforts towards his purposes rather than our own, then yes, I'd say our prayers are not amplified, but rather multiplied.