Starter Relay

[jmann]

Has anyone ever had their starter relay go bad? I was at deer camp with my daughter and company in southwestern az about a month ago and when I went to leave my 1998 tourer was dead. Traced it down to the 12volt feed wire off the starter relay under the right side cover. Back side of the relay was melted. Managed to get home but want to see if anyone else has experienced this so if I need to locate a bigger problem I can. I replaced it with a different relay as honda wanted a $100 for theirs and it's just a starter relay. It has worked fine with no problems for the past month so I'm thinking the wire connection had just deteriorated.

[9Ball]

known problem and can be avoided with routine preventive maintenance.  Requires cleaning the relay and contacts and applying a little dielectric grease to protect against future corrosion.

Try searching the tech archives and you will probably find other threads...

[jmann]

Thanks I will search and see what else I find. It looked like to me it was just a worn connection. Not all that unusual IMHO.

[RonW]

the Red Wire that plugs into the starter relay feeds the bike's entire electrical system, so things can get toasty at the terminal due to water, fatigued or loose female connector, frayed wire, corrosion. The excessive heat may even melt the plastic fuse holder adjacent to the the P-connector and make it appear that one of the legs of the fuse or that side socket is the culprit. (the Red Wire goes from the starter relay to the ignition switch so power gets shut off or turned on with the key. From the ignition switch the Red Wire continues on to the fuse box. And then to all points beyond. Er, the electricity conducted via the Red Wire.)



P.S., if you're thinking of perhaps upgrading the Red Wire to a thicker gauge wire, I don't think it's possible. The solder joint at the ignition switch terminal of the Red Wire looks like it's been done with some special spot welder. But if you find a way let me know.

[jmann]

RONW, thanks for the schematic. What I ended up doing was getting a motorcycle starter relay off the web that fits perfectly where the old one went and then just added an external 30amp fuseable link between the relay hot(battery) and the existing red that feeds the ignition. Same setup as the built in 30amp in the honda relay. I just soldered the fuseable link in to where I cut the red ignition feed and shrink sleeved it. Cost bout $25 to fix instead of $100. Works great and now it will be real easy to change if the relay ever fails.

[Chrisj CMA]

RONW, thanks for the schematic. What I ended up doing was getting a motorcycle starter relay off the web that fits perfectly where the old one went and then just added an external 30amp fuseable link between the relay hot(battery) and the existing red that feeds the ignition. Same setup as the built in 30amp in the honda relay. I just soldered the fuseable link in to where I cut the red ignition feed and shrink sleeved it. Cost bout $25 to fix instead of $100. Works great and now it will be real easy to change if the relay ever fails.

Hey Jmann.......could you take a pic or two and add a tad more detail for us non electrical types.....Sounds like you have the best fix if this shoudl happen to someone else.........I should say WHEN it happenes to someone else

[jmann]

Chris, I will take some pics in the next day or two and if I can figure out how to attach them I will. I'm new to using this board but I've been reading it for a little bit. I don't think it can be too difficult to add pics.. I just didn't want to give honda a $100 for something that really doesn't need to be that expensive. After looking at the schematic it just seemed like an easy solution. Don't know why it wouldn't hold up. Time will tell.

[RonW]

This has happened on my other bike .... the Red Wire gets disconnected and it'll stop the bike while at a stop light. I guess it could just as well happen going up a hill. Fortunately the Valk doesn't vibrate as much as other bikes so it takes a huge bump in the road, etc., to dislodge a faulty connector at the starter-relay end of the Red Wire. Just saying that the scenario can happen. The Red Wire is a main electrical artery.

On earlier threads, some members have chimed in about replacing the P-connector with an older ('80's) Gold Wing repair kit. That's the only way you can get an OEM .... the red half of the P-connector unless you purchase the entire wiring harness to which the red half is attached. The green half of the same P-connector is already on a new starter relay. I've cannibalized the equivalent component from a mini Bosch (standard) electrical relay. It's what I had at hand.

An advantage of a P-connector replacement kit is that it has a larger size protective booth. The OEM booth isn't as large enough to fully cover the starter relay you know when owners 'hose down their bikes' and water seeps into the P-connector.

Other than that the starter relay is about the dumbest thing on the bike. The only reason to order OEM is that the Valk's starter relay is square while most starter relays are round (cylindrical) in order for the body of the starter relay to fit into it's square rubber holder located under the right side-cover. Irregardless, you can bet other square-shaped starter relays are generic fitment-wise whether for Kawasaki, Ducati, etc. Er, Honda didn't design the rubber holder to fit a special edition Valk starter relay. They designed the rubber holder to fit a square-shaped starter relay that was already being mass produced and readily available on the market. Otherwise it would be as senseless as forging an 8.5mm bolt for Valks only. I can't seem to get on Ebay but Celox sells brand new starter relays for about every bike on the market for $22 plus shipping.



Photo:valkyriemc, from this earlier post.



Photo: RJ, from this earlier post.



Photo: RJ, from the same earlier post above, showing the replacement kit's parts number.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRUkk8kYRK8

**Note in the video how the owner removes the side cover so he doesn't break the side cover's tab and in the process only create another problem. He pries off the rear end of the side cover first before prying off the front end of the side cover, and reinstalling in the reverse order.

[jmann]

I'm not extolling the virtues of one repair vs the other. With either repair you will have to address the wire ends from the melted or damaged "P" connector on the OEM harness. The starter relay I bought online indeed is round but the rubber boot that captivates and secures it has the two "ears" that fit in the factory tabs so it is as secure as the original. The only two wires coming off it had spade terminals and I soldered the respective ends on the wires that were from the OEM melted P connector. No extra work there. The external 30amp fusable link was then soldered directly to the red accessory wire that was from the OEM "P" connector and then I put a round terminal on the other end and hooked it to the battery side of the relay. I just eliminated the OEM switch relay. I did have to straighten the OEM cable ends that connected to the OEM relay as the aftermarket relay connections were vertical as opposed to the horizontal of the OEM. I agree with you Ron about the water resistance of the "P" connector but shrink sleeving and solder are pretty good waterproofing. The battery terminal and starter connection on the relay I had to coat with silicone but thats inexpensive and it too is good waterproofing. Which ever you choose will get you there. Chris, if you still want photos let me know and I'll try and get them up.

[R J]

post.



Photo: JR, from this earlier post.



Photo: JR, from the same earlier post above, showing the replacement kit's parts number.

That dude who posted these is RJ not JR.   Mild correction, thank you.

Also, here is a very useful link with generic parts to fix your Phat Lady.

Just a suggestion, don't want to get in a pissing contest with anyone over this repair.    About anything will work, all I know for sure, it is a hell of a lot cheaper than the wire loom that Honda wants to sell ya for the repair on that year and Model of a Honda.

http://www.jkozloski.com/generic_parts.htm

The parts needed are listed for the repair about 90% of the way down on the right column.

[RonW]

jmann - I know people who have back filled all the P-connectors on their bike with silicone or some other type of sealant. I thought that was an excellent idea but never got around to doing it myself. And I agree that rerouting the red wire around the starter relay unit .... bypassing the starter relay unit .... would work just as well.


RJ - my bad.

[Fudd]

Here's mine.



I lost electrical pwr one night in the rain.  I was able to wiggle the red wire on the back and limp home.  After further inspection that's what I found.  The connection on the back had corroded, become thermally defective and burned the connector and rear of relay.  

I was able to clean up the relay's terminal, replace the connector and drive on.  I ordered another relay off ebay for $25 and I've been carrying it around for the last 10,000 miles, waiting for my winter "go-through."

[jmann]

Ron, all I try to do is save a little money now and then. I prefer your repair approach but it would have cost me more. Ask my friends and they will say I'm frugal. aka cheap. I put a son through college and have a daughter in law school so I'm broke most of the time. I really appreciate all the help this board provides and cannot believe the brotherhood amongest valk riders. Not that it was tough but I have really grown fond of the valk and enjoy it more and more everytime I ride it. Had a harley I bought brand new and sold it 3.5 years later with 7k on the odometer. Had the valk now for 3 years and have over 22k. I don't even commute on it. Just pleasure riding. Thanks again for your input Ron. Ride safe.

[RonW]

jmann, I just remembered sumpthing. The prong on the relay that the Red Wire use to be, or meant, to be connected to is HOT. Even with your Red Wire reroute the prong itself remains HOT. It's been a while since I've dissected apart the starter relay but I'm kinda sure the prong is live. The prong is connected to the same copper post on the relay that the battery cable is attached to, so indirectly connected to the battery positive. It's best to pull the old fuse to break the battery connection. Or silicone the prong or whatever. The yellow/red wire and the green/red wire do not use the fuse.

[jmann]

Thanks Ron for the update. The new relay I purchased only has the G/R and Y/R wires attached for energizing the relay. It does not have the internal 30amp fuse connection. That is why I had to add the external fuseable link. I would have reused my old relay but it was pretty well melted on the back side and I felt like it was risky to reuse it.

[RonW]

okay.