Sad state of affairs...

[MarkT]

Stopped in at Subway for lunch today.  I had a pocketful of change, decided I would unload it on the 20-something female "so-crap".  Or whatever they call themselves nowadays.  The bill came to $8.11 so I counted out 20 quarters, a dime, a nickle and a fin, on the counter.  I had said I wanted to unload the metal, apologizing.  She took 12 of the quarters and the fin and started making change.  I re-stated, I'd like to get rid of the change, if you don't mind.  She had this dumb deer-in-headlights look on her face, so I told her, "I gave you $10.15, my change is $2.04, I'd like paper singles please."  Still with the blank look, then she called over the manager, lost as to what to do - "He gave me $10.15, bill is $8.11".  The manager took over, and gave me 2 singles & 4 pennies which I dropped in the jar.

This is the level of mathematical competence we are graduating these days?  Not exactly calculus.  Or even algebra.  Hell, this is 4th grade arithmetic, for crying out loud.  There is a "Help Wanted for lunch shift" sign on the window.  Maybe they should add, "Grade School Math required."

Shees.  No wonder the rest of the world is passing us by.  Sad.  Bet she can text circles around me, though.  Too bad they don't pay for that.

[9Ball]

Probably why she's working at Subway...just saying.

[Gryphon Rider]

You assume she graduated.  Actually, for someone weak at math, she did well:  1. She tried her best with what she knew.  2. When that didn't satisfy you and she didn't know what to do, she got appropriate help.  3. You left with what you wanted, and Subway got properly paid.

[The Anvil]

My first inclination would have been to give you back your excess coin and tell you to find a bank.

[alph]

Being the father of two teenage girls, and one 11 year old son, i will come to the defense of the children of this age.

First off, don't blame them!  They shouldn't be held responsible for educating themselves.  my two girls are capable of figuring out 15% gratuity on any restaurant bill, but they didn't learn that from ANY teacher, they learned it from ME! 

Second off, the first thing that kids get once they enter a math class now a days is a calculator!  not to help them check their work, but to do the work for them!!  this makes it easier for the TEACHER!  the kid gets the right answer, the teacher looks like they're doing their job correctly!!  win-win situation, (for the school district that is.)  Kids are not learning the basic fundamentals of mathematics, or the ability to figure out simple math problems, this will affect them for the rest of their lives.

Third thing, most kids are NOT allowed to work until they are 16, unlike most of us, they legally can not hold down a job until they're more interested in not working, so they don’t really care to do things right.  When we were kids, we had to work, some of us milked cows, some worked in restaurants, some worked in our parents garages as auto mechanics!  Good work ethics start at a young age, some of these kids are older then 18 before they get a job!!

I do feel your frustration Mark, something so simple (to us) has now become hard to the younger generation, and often times these kids can feel your frustration, but, it’s not their fault!  It’s the parents.  What’s really sad is that these are basic things they should have been taught as children, and they’re not learning it. 
 

[R J]

One day last week, the wife sent me to the Bakery down the street from the house.

I went in and ordered a half dozen cream puffs.   The little gal behind the counter said we only sell them, 1, 3, 6, 9, or 12.     I said, OH, I see, well give me six, I believe that comes to a 1/2 dozen.  

Talk about a got look on her face.     Went to pay for them, she rang it up on the cash register and punched the change key,  she hollered at the owner, who lives 2 doors from me, and told her that she punched in the wrong amount and she didn't know how much change to give me.    Janice, the owner asked her how much it was, she didn't remember, asked her how much I'd given her, she said $10.   She told the girl you owe him $.34.    Clerk asked her how she figured that out, Janice told her I paid attention in Math in school.   I had to go before I cracked up laughing.

[John Schmidt]

Mark, Colorado doesn't have all of them. About two weeks ago I stopped in a local Einstein's Bagel to pick up a couple of my favorites....Power Bagels. I noticed it was a bit dark inside but didn't give it a second thought until I asked for my usual. The little honey behind the counter told me they can't sell anything because the power is out for a while and we can't make change. I asked if they can get the drawer open....oh yes, just doesn't compute the change. Huh???  I asked for the manager, a lady I've known for some time. She wanted to know what the trouble was, I told her, she looked incredulous....then told the girl to open the drawer and let Mr. Schmidt give you a math lesson.

So, she did as told and when I handed her a five she picked up a pencil and started to subtract. I told her to put it down and follow my instructions; what's the bill....$2.98, what did I give you....$5. Now start counting change from $2.98 until you reach $5, that's my change. She looked at me totally confused so I told her to count it out as she took it from the drawer....and told her what to count and how. Afterward she protested, said it can't be right because it's too easy. The mgr. looked at me, threw her hands up and walked away, all the time grumbling about "she didn't hire her." 

Two days later I stopped in and here was sweet cheeks still running the cash register. She saw me and was all excited, just had to tell me about her promotion that got her away from the checkout counter. It was then the book about The Peter Principle came to mind; "in a hierarchy every employee tends to rise to their level of incompetence."  I'll bet I know why she was "promoted."   

[old2soon]

More than once and in different stores with younger male or female clerks i have been told i gave them too much money. Example-the register rang up $7.34. Soooo i give them a $10.00 bill and .34 in change. Been informed i gave them too much money. Ring it up and i tell them $3.00 BEFORE they punch it in and they get this blank look on their face. Dad taught us a long time ago about counting back change. Of course i had to have it right-i had a paper route and had to make collections every week. This well before hand held calculators came on the scene. Buddy of mine used to run a bakery. He relayed the story about his electronic cash register crapping out at the morning rush. The college girl he had working for him couldn't figire out prices and tax with a pen and paper. Nuff said. RIDE SAFE.

[Chattanooga Mark]

Congratulations to you Alph and to other parents that actually give a rip about their children. The sad thruth is most parents don't have a clue what their children do and don't learn. I run into clerks who can't count change all the time.

Mark 

[DarkMeister]

Drives me bonkers too. I do it all the time. For one, it lightens the hole-making weight in my pocket; for another, an establishment operating a cash could always use the change more than I.

This is not rocket science. It is also not high-school or college stuff. It's basic grammar-school stuff.

Alph makes a good point - we are responsible, not the system or teachers.

Lastly, someone that poor at basic math shouldn't be working a till. They may be right-brainers or generally not math adept. But geez Louise...promote them to something else already.

[Lyn-Del]

It's certainly not new ....... 30 years ago people gave me blank looks when I counted their change back to them.  "What are you doing?" was a common question.  Some said "just give it to me, I trust you."  I told them *I* didn't trust me not to make a mistake!

A friend had a small, independent pizza place, a sweet young thing started working there.  The first time she had to make change, the owner soon learned she only knew how to make change in DIMES!  She sent the girl home with a stack of old receipts and instructions to her mother to not bring her back until she could make change.

My dad taught me to count change when I was about 8 and got ripped off for $5 of my Christmas money.

The ones I love are the ones that give ME too much money and refuse to take it back because "the cash register doesn't make mistakes."  I try to give it back 3 times, then I consider it a gift, a reward for being (or trying to be) honest.  If I know the owner/manager, I'll give them the money along with a report of the skills of the cashier.

Like I said, it's not a new problem.

[GotValk]

That reminds me a couple of years ago I pull into the gas station to fill my Suburban, Went into the store to pay the gal behind the counter, as she rang up the bill and told me $6.00  I looked at her and said  did you see what I'm driving? She tells me that Chevy Suburban, So I told her it was empty and there's no way that should be $6.00 , all she could do was tell me that is what it rang up at, so I asked her if there was a manager here,she calls up some young guy so I explained the problem to him , again he didn't know what to do so he agreed that was all I needed to pay......There was beginning to be quite a line so I gave up and said thank you!, Looked at the pump when I left and it was set at .17 per gallon, drove by that station 1/2 hour later and there was quite a line for that pump....go figure!! 

[Valker]

<Rant font on>
Before some of you blame the 'lousy teachers' for this, you might want to check your voting preferences. The teachers no longer get to choose what or how they teach. The lesson plans are dictated to them without allowances for what the legislature/ department of education has deemed unimportant. For my last several years of teaching in elementary, the 'state' folks administered the state tests to my class because they thought I must be cheating to have my low income kids all pass their stupid tests. With my certifications I was never very worried about being fired, so I taught what needed to be taught in a way that the kids learned. Nowadays, if you don't give out what the machine tells you to, you are fired. Schools are exactly as good as massive government intervention can make them.

[MarkT]

You assume she graduated.  

No I didn't.  This is grade-school arithmetic.  I could make change when I was 10 years old.

When that didn't satisfy you and she didn't know what to do, she got appropriate help.

She didn't get the help.  I actually mis-spoke.    The manager came over when the line was backing up at the register, and she explained I had given her 10.15, leaving implied she didn't know what to do. (Note, she was making change down from $8 for a bill of $8.11, as she had left the 8 quarters and the dime and nickle next to me, had pulled the rest over to her. ) Meanwhile I was helping her, but she apparently didn't trust me, like I was the flim-flam guy on Cheers. She was obviously frustrated by her inability to compute, or think on her feet.  Still sad, this is a product of our schools.  

[MarkT]

My first inclination would have been to give you back your excess coin and tell you to find a bank.

Though I have never responded to one of you posts, anvil - or whoever you really are - there's a reason for that.  I have seen your abuse of others repeatedly, and have added you to my Ignore list even without a direct confrontation.

If you had done as you said in this situation - I would have delayed your cash register and the line formed while I insisted you accept my legal tender.  Or it would have been free, if you refused.  Any further static would have resulted in my call to 911 to get a cop in there to enforce my position.  And that would have been our last transaction, as I proceeded to boycott your business ever after.  While I am now a regular customer of this store.

Now I am back to ignoring you.

[YoungPUP]

I can't help it but every time I try: 3+3= chair.....

[Cruzen]

<Rant font on>
Before some of you blame the 'lousy teachers' for this, you might want to check your voting preferences. The teachers no longer get to choose what or how they teach. The lesson plans are dictated to them without allowances for what the legislature/ department of education has deemed unimportant. For my last several years of teaching in elementary, the 'state' folks administered the state tests to my class because they thought I must be cheating to have my low income kids all pass their stupid tests. With my certifications I was never very worried about being fired, so I taught what needed to be taught in a way that the kids learned. Nowadays, if you don't give out what the machine tells you to, you are fired. Schools are exactly as good as massive government intervention can make them.

I have heard similar from other retired teachers but the reality of the situation is that the same kids who do not get what we may consider to be an adequate education due to political intervention exhibit highly developed texting skills which are not taught to them in school or by family members.  Why not direct some of those energies to developing suitable math skills.  Most of them will probably end up working at Wal-Mart anyway.

Last week I was having a discussion with a bank administrator who has had kids in to apply for loans or open checking accounts who did not know how to sign their names.  They printed them out.  WTF is that all about?

[Davemn]

I am 56 years old...whats a "fin"?

[Lyn-Del]

Politics or no politics, when I was a kid, parents participated in education.  When I was having trouble with my "times tables" over the Thanksgiving break (which back then was out one hour early on Wednesday, and back on Monday), my aunt made everything I could possibly want contingent upon me spouting tables as requested.  

And schools were focused on education.  When I was in school, "no pass no play" wasn't a phrase, it was a way of life.  Every week, not just when report cards came out, if you weren't making at least a solid C (that would have been at least an 82 in our school), you did not participate in that week's game.  

Some kids faked it well enough to slide by, most didn't.  And someone noticed.  That was the early 70s.  From what I understand, it's not like that anymore.

Oh, and I've heard that lately there has been a proposal to stop teaching cursive writing since it's not really needed any more .........

[DarkMeister]

I am 56 years old...whats a "fin"?

5 dollar bill

[The Anvil]

My first inclination would have been to give you back your excess coin and tell you to find a bank.

Though I have never responded to one of you posts, anvil - or whoever you really are - there's a reason for that.  I have seen your abuse of others repeatedly, and have added you to my Ignore list even without a direct confrontation.

If you had done as you said in this situation - I would have delayed your cash register and the line formed while I insisted you accept my legal tender.  Or it would have been free, if you refused.  Any further static would have resulted in my call to 911 to get a cop in there to enforce my position.  And that would have been our last transaction, as I proceeded to boycott your business ever after.  While I am now a regular customer of this store.

Now I am back to ignoring you.

I said it was my first inclination. I didn't say I wouldn't do it.

No one's bound by law to make foldin' money out of coin for you, they only have to accept your money. Actually, they don't even have to do that. So dial away.

[art]

I am 56 years old...whats a "fin"?

Five dollars,Duce -two dollars,sawbuck I think is ten dollars

[CajunRider]

I am 56 years old...whats a "fin"?

Five dollars,Duce -two dollars,sawbuck I think is ten dollars

Whiskey Tango Foxtrot??? 

I've never heard of those before...  except for "Deuce"... which means # 2, but not in dollars or cents...     

To get back on subject... it's sad, but I'm actually better at algebra than regular simple math.    

Take something like multiplying two two-digit numbers... it's easier for me to break them down into separate single digits... multiply the separate parts... add those answers together... then tack on the number of zeros needed on the end. 

Hey... I never claimed to be normal!!!   

That's what calculators have done to me... I had to figure out a way to cope since I'm not very good with multiplication tables and such, but took enough algebra, calculus, and differential Eq. to have many, many mathematic "cheats" crammed in my head.    

[Jabba]

That ain't a cheat Cajun Rider... that's what you actually do when you do it on paper.   Just some of us can do it in our heads.

Sometimes... I do it a little different.

say... what is 22 x 59.

I'll do it as (20 x 60)+ (2x60) - 22.

So... 20 x 60 = 1200 + 120 = 1320 - 22 = 1298

It's all about breaking the arithmetic into little pieces that you can manage in your head.

Some people can do it... others... can't.  My wife gets aggravated as hell at me when she's doing something on the calculator and I beat her in my head.

Jabba

[czuch]

I dont do math. Never "got" it.
I can figure milage, tip percentage and price per weight in my head though. Go figure,,,lol.
I told a girl at wammart "No, 100" when she took the twenty and said, " outta twenty?"
She laid the bill where she should have and started making change for 100.
 I said "Hon, it IS a twenty" She only got upset about the Hon part, and continued to make my change. I went to the customer service and told em not to call that one, Hon.

[Black Dog]

Both of my boys knew how to make simple change, before they started school...  My ex and I would take a pile of change, dump it on the table, and ask them to give us random ammounts...  After they got good at that, we played 'Store', and they made change, from $5, $10, and so on...

alph is correct, parents need to take some responsibility for the 'correct' education of their children.

Black Dog

[RainMaker]

That ain't a cheat Cajun Rider... that's what you actually do when you do it on paper.   Just some of us can do it in our heads.

Sometimes... I do it a little different.

say... what is 22 x 59.

I'll do it as (20 x 60)+ (2x60) - 22.

So... 20 x 60 = 1200 + 120 = 1320 - 22 = 1298

It's all about breaking the arithmetic into little pieces that you can manage in your head.

Some people can do it... others... can't.  My wife gets aggravated as hell at me when she's doing something on the calculator and I beat her in my head.

Jabba

+1 - drives the wife crazy when I do it out loud, too!

[Tx Bohemian]

I am 56 years old...whats a "fin"?

Same age here, and same question.

Although I feel the pain here having to deal with people like the cashier, but as I read through these replies my head is about to explode with PRIDE!!!

My 4 yr old grandson already can add and subtract simple problems and can sound out and spell small words. Kudos to his parents!!

Although I'm a bigheaded parent and grandparent but to me this is saying the wife and I did a great job raising our kids and it's continuing on with the next generation!! (or at least with our next generation)

[Davemn]

If you're not in the top 10 states for education....maybe thats the problem

1New HampshireNH228.0243.0471.0
2MassachusettsMA228.0242.0470.0
3ConnecticutCT228.0241.0469.0
4VermontVT226.0242.0468.0
5MinnesotaMN223.0242.0465.0
6New JerseyNJ225.0239.0464.0
7North CarolinaNC221.0242.0463.0
8WyomingWY222.0241.0463.0
9KansasKS220.0242.0462.0
10MaineME224.0238.0462.0


Read more: http://www.city-data.com/forum/florida/161566-u-s-state-school-rankings-crime.html#ixzz1fDldKIPy

[The Anvil]

If you're not in the top 10 states for education....maybe thats the problem

1New HampshireNH228.0243.0471.0
2MassachusettsMA228.0242.0470.0
3ConnecticutCT228.0241.0469.0
4VermontVT226.0242.0468.0
5MinnesotaMN223.0242.0465.0
6New JerseyNJ225.0239.0464.0
7North CarolinaNC221.0242.0463.0
8WyomingWY222.0241.0463.0
9KansasKS220.0242.0462.0
10MaineME224.0238.0462.0

Pick it up Rhode Island...

[Jess from VA]

I am 56 years old...whats a "fin"?

Five dollars,Duce -two dollars,sawbuck I think is ten dollars

So how much is a buck two ninty-eight?

While stationed overseas the TURKISH LIRA went from 750 to 15,xxx to the dollar, and of course all the merchandise was marked in Lira..... we all carried calculators, as did the merchants.

[3fan4life]

Today I stopped at a local Taco Bell to grab a small "bite" to hold me over until dinner.

I ordered a soft taco which came to $1.30, I handed the girl a $5 bill and after hitting a couple of buttons on the register she got a puzzled look on her face.

I guess that she hit the wrong button and the register failed to tell her how much change to give me.   

She called to one of her co-workers and asked her to help figure my change.

Of course I quickly figured in my head what the change should be and because this recent thread came to mind I asked the girl if she would allow me to teach her something.

She agreed with some obvious reservation.

So I asked her what my total was,

She said $1.30,

So I asked her to figure how much that she needed to add to make the total $2,

She quickly responded .70 ,

I then asked her start at 2 and count out one dollar bills until she reached $5 ,

She did and then I said, "Now you have my change." ,

Her eyes sparkled with the look of someone that just learned something as she repeated $3.70 ,

About this same time the other girl had finished "adding" it up on her cell phones calculator and seemed very surprised to see that the two totals matched.

While she seemed amazed that my "math" had been correct she stated that she preferred calculators because they were easy,

I pointed to my head and told her that, "she needed to learn how to use this calculator" ,

She stated that she still preferred calculators,

I told her that she needed to be able to use the calculator in her head because the batteries could always "die" in the other one.

She laughed and said that she hadn't thought of that.

I doubt that I would've intervened if this thread hadn't been ringing in my ears, so maybe in some small way the VRCC gave a "20 something year old" a math lesson today.     

 

[The Anvil]

Just a few years ago 1.30 would have bought you a dozen soft tacos at the Bell.

[alph]

i was just talking to my daughters about the "taco" story posted earlier.

my oldest works at KFC.  She’s a cashier, and she gets some of you older types trying to show off with your superior intellect, getting rid of your spare change, trying to screw her up with your mathematical geniuses!!!  She gets laughing at it ‘cause sometimes the customer ISN'T right!!  she had a guy a couple weeks ago that insisted he gave her a ten dollar bill, but she doesn't put it in the tray right away, and told the guy it was a five, then he starts apologizing as if it was an honest mistake......

(i taught her that one also, my parents had a gas station when i was growing up, learned ALL the tricks, teaching 'em to my own kids!!)

[Lyn-Del]

she had a guy a couple weeks ago that insisted he gave her a ten dollar bill, but she doesn't put it in the tray right away, and told the guy it was a five, then he starts apologizing as if it was an honest mistake......

(i taught her that one also, my parents had a gas station when i was growing up, learned ALL the tricks, teaching 'em to my own kids!!)

I was taught that bills were placed on the register until we agreed on the change.   I was also taught not to just reach out and take any money the customer placed on the counter until the customer offered it to me.  It drives me nuts when I'm trying to see if I have the right change and the clerk reaches over and grabs the cash I've already dug out.  Especially when they stretch across the counter and reach over my hands to get it.

[old2soon]

she had a guy a couple weeks ago that insisted he gave her a ten dollar bill, but she doesn't put it in the tray right away, and told the guy it was a five, then he starts apologizing as if it was an honest mistake......

(i taught her that one also, my parents had a gas station when i was growing up, learned ALL the tricks, teaching 'em to my own kids!!)

I was taught that bills were placed on the register until we agreed on the change.   I was also taught not to just reach out and take any money the customer placed on the counter until the customer offered it to me.  It drives me nuts when I'm trying to see if I have the right change and the clerk reaches over and grabs the cash I've already dug out.  Especially when they stretch across the counter and reach over my hands to get it.

  Dats when ya gits ta bitch slap em. RIDE SAFE.

[Serk]

I'm just amazed at the high number of people that seem to still use cash! Other than a small emergency stash, I almost never have any cash on me or use it, it's just a hassle and a risk...

[Lyn-Del]

I live by my credit card, I just can't make myself use a credit or debit card for purchases under $10.  As a former merchant, I know what it costs the merchant.

[CajunRider]

I doubt that I would've intervened if this thread hadn't been ringing in my ears, so maybe in some small way the VRCC gave a "20 something year old" a math lesson today.     

Someone showed me a trick similar to that when I was about 14 or 15... then all of a sudden, math was easier.  After that, I started remembering all those algebra equations and applying them. 

That's how I got to using all those "cheats" I mentioned earlier. 

Now... I'm no where near as fast as Jabba, who uses the same method I often use in his example... but, when there's no calculator handy, it works well!! 

And the funny thing... I've gotten used to it and trust myself with it now, so I no longer keep my calculator on top of my desk at work!  It's tucked away in a drawer where is only gets used when I have a LOT of calculations to do.    

[..]

Went to local bar a couple of days ago with some friends.
They have good wings.
Asked the bar wench for 20.
She brightly said we don't do 20 only 8, 12 or 16.
OK I said I'll take an 8 and a 12
Without missing a beat or with the slightest flash of insight she brightly said OK.

Paid for her looks and nothing else.