2'nd amendment

[FryeVRCCDS0067]

I know there are a lot of 2'nd amendment supporters such as myself here. Even many who aren't might find this of interest.

It wasn't long ago that the administration had hillery campaigning for more gun control because some of the guns being used by the drug cartels were being traced back to American gun shops. At the same time, unknown to the public, the administration was ordering these same gun-shops to knowingly sell to gun traffickers as part of their "fast and furious" program. Evidently to make sure there were guns in Mexico which could be traced back here for the purpose of promoting "gun control".

Then we had an American border patrol agent killed by one of these guns and his fellow agents ratted out the administration for causing this agents death.

Now, it looks as though the court records have been sealed to try to put the public back in the dark and make us forget about it.

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/obama-admin-seals-records-murdered-border-patrol-agent-implicated-fast-and-furious_610783.html

We seem to have an amazingly short memory concerning such things and it may work.

[Thespian]

 Evidently to make sure there were guns in Mexico which could be traced back here for the purpose of promoting "gun control". ???

 What is evident to me is that they were trying to track where the guns were going. IE the persons in the cartels, and because the program is on going, they can't release the details.

 Just wondering. Do you blame the current administration when your stool is to hard and you have a hard time with your BM? 

[The Anvil]

There could be many legitimate reasons for sealing the records. People hear "records sealed" and think that the truth will never see the light of day but it always does.

Of course the reasons could also be sinister. I don't cower in fear of the "half-breed" boogeyman and as such I'll give the administration the benefit of the doubt. For now.

[Thespian]

  America dose a very good job with regard to keeping secrets. That's how we won, WW2.
 People only think our government cant keep a secret, because the leek just enough to make some out there think they know what's going on......  

[RoadKill]

This aint the same gov't we had in WWII !  Not by a long shot !

[Thespian]

 Same military right?

[RoadKill]

Same military right?

Far cry from it 

[JohnD]

If you followed this you would recall that the ATF admiited that they have no way of tracking the guns once they crossed the border and also they did not let anyone in Mexico know of the program so that they could help. The whole thing was set up  because ATF claims the drug cartels get there guns from gun shops here. But what gun store or dealer do you know of that sells fully auto weapons and uzi submachine guns? Also this stinks so bad that ATF agents had to spill the beans to the public because the higher ups wouldn't listen to there own field agents who are in the trenches every day trying to protect us US citizens. THERE is a MAJOR cover up. Lets us not be so complacent.

[old2soon]

Same military right?

  Not even CLOSE. RIDE SAFE.

[Chattanooga Mark]

This isn't the same country, government or military we had 5, 10, 15, 20 or even 25 years ago.

I was NO fan of Bush Sr. or Bush Jr., but this current regime is more corrupt than our country has ever had.

Mark

[The Anvil]

This isn't the same country, government or military we had 5, 10, 15, 20 or even 25 years ago.

I was NO fan of Bush Sr. or Bush Jr., but this current regime is more corrupt than our country has ever had.

Mark

You need to catch up on a few things. Corrupt? Sure. They're politicians. "More corrupt than our country has ever had"? Noooo.

I actually know of two local gun shops that deal in full auto weapons to the legally licensed buyers. In fact, I'm a regular customer of one of them. That said, converting many semi-auto rifles to full auto is a simple matter

[Chrisj CMA]

You can argue conspiracy theory, no conspiracy.  Gun contol agenda, no agenda all day long.

But anyone willing to defend Eric Holder and the ATF on this matter is just a tad "high" on the Obama Koolaid. 

This whole deal stunk from the beginning and it still stinks!  I am almost willing to bet that the only reason strong anti-gun and huge gun control measures arent being talked about right now is because its such a volitile subject during an election process. 

If America is dumb enough to let the Occupier in Chief have a second term, watch out.......I believe the second ammendment will be under fire almost immediatly

[solo1]

There is no doubt in my mind as to what the Administration wanted to do.  In 'Fast and Furious' the president was figuratively caught with his pants down.  This President of the United States, no matter his political party or color,  has his own agenda and one of the many items on his agenda is to weaken or eliminate private and anonymous ownership of firearms.  All FACTS point to that even tho he's playing it 'cool' !

It's almost laughable to compare this administration with the one that existed during WWII. 

 A statement that all politicians are corrupt is not neccessarily a correct statement. Dealing in generalities will bite you.

[MAD6Gun]

 Fast and Furious. What a joke. What moron thought this was good idea. I saw a video of Holder saying he didnt know anything about it until 2 weeks before he testified bafore congress. What a crock. He knew and I am sure Obama knew too.

 I beleve that if Obama gets another term he will go after guns. I am sure of it. That means the Assualt wepons ban WILL be reinstated and then they will go after everything else. If you dont beleve it than just sit back and watch.

 I feel anyone that owns guns should be a member of the NRA. If it was not for the NRA we would have lost our gun rights long ago. That I am sure of. I am Life (endowment) member,have been for a while now. If it was not for the NRA and Fox news we  would have never heard of Fast and Furious.....

[Valkernaut]

Our government will NEVER take our guns away - just ask Germany, England, Australia and probably others I don't even know about!!

[Jess from VA]

http://www.nrapublications.org/index.php/11920/obamas-secret-plan-to-destroy-the-second-amendment-by-2016/

More than anything else, Zero must never be allowed to appoint another Supreme Court Justice, (like the two scum-buckets he already appointed).

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/11/30/fast-and-furious-whistleblowers-struggle-six-months-after-testifying-against/?test=latestnews

[The Anvil]

Yeah that NRA piece is alarmist propaganda. As a 20 year member of the NRA I find it embarrassing.

Would Obama like to do away with guns? Well, maybe (although he's actually done nothing but loosen regulations but that's beside the point, innit?) But extinguishing the second amendment is a very complicated undertaking. It will take many years, not just a second term.

This 1st part is particularly laughable: "1. Neutralize gun owners and NRA voters as a political force in national elections,"

You might as well throw rocks at the moon. The gun lobby and ownership body here in America effectively ensures that it's practically impossible to make it a non-factor.

Man, some people are gullible.

[barbarianthemadserb]

This isn't the same country, government or military we had 5, 10, 15, 20 or even 25 years ago.

I was NO fan of Bush Sr. or Bush Jr., but this current regime is more corrupt than our country has ever had.

Mark

Mark, I agree with ya 100%
The Mad Serb

[solo1]

Yeah, with over 75% of the Citizens of the USA against it.  Obamacare passed.

Oh Yeah, I most certainly trust our politicians in Washington.  Anvil, you said it yourself all politicians were corrupt.  Give Obama the benefit of a doubt.  Huh?

[The Anvil]

Yeah, with over 75% of the Citizens of the USA against it.  Obamacare passed.

Oh Yeah, I most certainly trust our politicians in Washington.  Anvil, you said it yourself all politicians were corrupt.  Give Obama the benefit of a doubt.  Huh?

I'm extending the benefit of the doubt to the possibility that the records on FaF have been sealed due to an ongoing investigation. FFaF has already been determined to be illegal.

[FryeVRCCDS0067]

The high court is the real danger. Gun owners have won and won in the past few years, mainly thanks to the NRA. Obama has appointed two justices, both anti-gun, but since they replaced anti-gun justices it doesn't matter much. But, if a justice who voted for the 2'nd amendment retires and Obama replaces him, then we have lost.

The two victories gunowners have had in the high court where both decided by only one vote. If we lose that one vote, you can be sure they will review those victories and turn them into defeat.

[B.A.C.A.IntelMan (ArizonaSmitty)]

And from what I understand, yet again we here in Arizona take it on the chin.  Most of that weapon transfer scam came right out of gun shops here in Phoenix and Tucson.

[fudgie]

I always heard 'obama is going after your guns'. He's been in office this long and I still own and buy guns the same as I did in pre-obama days. Altho 'he' did make my .380 ammo hard to find for a year.  The repub canidates we have now aint any better for being pro gun. Romney- assualt weapons ban in Mass. Perry- still no open carry in Tx. Tx for god sakes!  Do we really think that this any better?   

NRA. Eh, I was a member years ago. When they come out and slam 'your' method of handgun carry, are they really for gun owners?

[Hoser]

Texas has concealed carry, Kansas has concealed and open.  I carry concealed and never open carry except when pistol hunting.  It is just me, but I think the only reason to carry openly if not hunting is for a ego boost of the carrier.  I have no animosity towards those that do carry openly, after all isn't that one of the reasons we ride Valkyries? I just don't carry openly because I don't wish others to know I am armed.   Hoser 

[fudgie]

It is just me, but I think the only reason to carry openly if not hunting is for a ego boost of the carrier. 

Wow.  No x-mas card for hoser this year.    If I wanted a ego boost I'd buy a pekker pump. 

So why is oc ok for hunting but not personal protection? 

[musclehead]

Yeah that NRA piece is alarmist propaganda. As a 20 year member of the NRA I find it embarrassing.

Would Obama like to do away with guns? Well, maybe (although he's actually done nothing but loosen regulations but that's beside the point, innit?) But extinguishing the second amendment is a very complicated undertaking. It will take many years, not just a second term.

This 1st part is particularly laughable: "1. Neutralize gun owners and NRA voters as a political force in national elections,"

You might as well throw rocks at the moon. The gun lobby and ownership body here in America effectively ensures that it's practically impossible to make it a non-factor.

Man, some people are gullible.

Obama said he would support another 'assault weapons' ban, he campaigned on it. remember? I do.
an assault weapon in one persons mind is a deer rifle in anothers.

[FryeVRCCDS0067]

I always heard 'obama is going after your guns'. He's been in office this long and I still own and buy guns the same as I did in pre-obama days. Altho 'he' did make my .380 ammo hard to find for a year.  The repub canidates we have now aint any better for being pro gun. Romney- assualt weapons ban in Mass. Perry- still no open carry in Tx. Tx for god sakes!  Do we really think that this any better?   

NRA. Eh, I was a member years ago. When they come out and slam 'your' method of handgun carry, are they really for gun owners?

Without the NRA Indiana's castle doctrine law, parking lot law and a host of other pro freedom laws would not have been passed here in the Hoosier state. When you see me post that a certain law is coming up for a vote and it's time for the citizens to call/E mail their elected officials, I have that info because the NRA passed it to me. Most working men and women don't have the time or knowledge to write/suggest laws to our lawmakers. Most of us don't have the time to check everyday at every state house across the nation to see when the citizens need to be alerted. That's why I and many others pay the NRA to do so for us.

The NRA is the oldest and largest civil rights group in the United States. And, without the NRA organizing our citizens, keeping track of how politicians really vote and then informing the members before elections we would have already lost our right to own firearms.

Have you ever called/written Richard Lugar's office concerning pro and anti 2'nd amendment laws? I have, several times. Their standard reply used to be "Senator Lugar is a strong 2'nd amendment supporter". And that sounds good and you might be convinced he is. But he's not, he seems to vote for most gun control laws and seldom supports expanded freedoms but he says he's on our side.

If you're and NRA member, you are sent a history of how he actually votes which exposes the lies.

Without the NRA you would have already lost the right to own firearms. Do I always agree with the NRA? No. I think they are frequently too willing to compromise but I will always stay a member because to do otherwise is to hide my head in the sand and give up.

[The Anvil]

Yeah that NRA piece is alarmist propaganda. As a 20 year member of the NRA I find it embarrassing.

Would Obama like to do away with guns? Well, maybe (although he's actually done nothing but loosen regulations but that's beside the point, innit?) But extinguishing the second amendment is a very complicated undertaking. It will take many years, not just a second term.

This 1st part is particularly laughable: "1. Neutralize gun owners and NRA voters as a political force in national elections,"

You might as well throw rocks at the moon. The gun lobby and ownership body here in America effectively ensures that it's practically impossible to make it a non-factor.

Man, some people are gullible.

Obama said he would support another 'assault weapons' ban, he campaigned on it. remember? I do.
an assault weapon in one persons mind is a deer rifle in anothers.

I don't remember that in particular but I just kind of assume he's not fond of them (assault weapons). Most Democrats are not.

But that's not the argument I'm making. What I'm saying is that whether or not he WANTS to undo the second amendment (and I don't know that he does) he doesn't have that power. I think that the NRA's alarmist approach often does more harm than good because it draws attention away from the real battlegrounds.

Don't blame Romney for the MA assault weapons ban. You have to understand just how complicated Massachusetts politics are. Also, I'm no Jethro Bodean fan but open carry is insanely overrated. We have it here in NH and it occasionally comes in handy if I have to take my coat off but that's it. I don't feel the need to draw attention to myself or "show off my piece". Open carry provides no significant advantage and in fact could just end up getting you killed first.

[musclehead]

Yeah that NRA piece is alarmist propaganda. As a 20 year member of the NRA I find it embarrassing.

Would Obama like to do away with guns? Well, maybe (although he's actually done nothing but loosen regulations but that's beside the point, innit?) But extinguishing the second amendment is a very complicated undertaking. It will take many years, not just a second term.

This 1st part is particularly laughable: "1. Neutralize gun owners and NRA voters as a political force in national elections,"

You might as well throw rocks at the moon. The gun lobby and ownership body here in America effectively ensures that it's practically impossible to make it a non-factor.

Man, some people are gullible.

Obama said he would support another 'assault weapons' ban, he campaigned on it. remember? I do.
an assault weapon in one persons mind is a deer rifle in anothers.

I don't remember that in particular but I just kind of assume he's not fond of them (assault weapons). Most Democrats are not.

But that's not the argument I'm making. What I'm saying is that whether or not he WANTS to undo the second amendment (and I don't know that he does) he doesn't have that power. I think that the NRA's alarmist approach often does more harm than good because it draws attention away from the real battlegrounds.

Don't blame Romney for the MA assault weapons ban. You have to understand just how complicated Massachusetts politics are. Also, I'm no Jethro Bodean fan but open carry is insanely overrated. We have it here in NH and it occasionally comes in handy if I have to take my coat off but that's it. I don't feel the need to draw attention to myself or "show off my piece". Open carry provides no significant advantage and in fact could just end up getting you killed first.

I'm the only conservative child in my family and Thanksgiving and Christmas are alot of fun. removing gun ownership has been a staple of the left as far as I can remember, every holiday spent with my siblings proves that they haven't abandoned it. I think losing the right to keep and bear arms is never more then a majority of voting Americans away, so far we have more gun owners then they have gun haters.

[The Anvil]

Yeah that NRA piece is alarmist propaganda. As a 20 year member of the NRA I find it embarrassing.

Would Obama like to do away with guns? Well, maybe (although he's actually done nothing but loosen regulations but that's beside the point, innit?) But extinguishing the second amendment is a very complicated undertaking. It will take many years, not just a second term.

This 1st part is particularly laughable: "1. Neutralize gun owners and NRA voters as a political force in national elections,"

You might as well throw rocks at the moon. The gun lobby and ownership body here in America effectively ensures that it's practically impossible to make it a non-factor.

Man, some people are gullible.

Obama said he would support another 'assault weapons' ban, he campaigned on it. remember? I do.
an assault weapon in one persons mind is a deer rifle in anothers.

I don't remember that in particular but I just kind of assume he's not fond of them (assault weapons). Most Democrats are not.

But that's not the argument I'm making. What I'm saying is that whether or not he WANTS to undo the second amendment (and I don't know that he does) he doesn't have that power. I think that the NRA's alarmist approach often does more harm than good because it draws attention away from the real battlegrounds.

Don't blame Romney for the MA assault weapons ban. You have to understand just how complicated Massachusetts politics are. Also, I'm no Jethro Bodean fan but open carry is insanely overrated. We have it here in NH and it occasionally comes in handy if I have to take my coat off but that's it. I don't feel the need to draw attention to myself or "show off my piece". Open carry provides no significant advantage and in fact could just end up getting you killed first.

I'm the only conservative child in my family and Thanksgiving and Christmas are alot of fun. removing gun ownership has been a staple of the left as far as I can remember, every holiday spent with my siblings proves that they haven't abandoned it. I think losing the right to keep and bear arms is never more then a majority of voting Americans away, so far we have more gun owners then they have gun haters.

My family is widely varied in political opinions. My GP's are (or at least WERE before dubya) staunch Republicans. My mother is a typical liberal hippie a former labor union chief steward, former NH State Representative and personal friend of John Kerry. She is also a gun owner with a CCW permit.

[MAD6Gun]

I'm no Jethro Bodean fan but open carry is insanely overrated. We have it here in NH and it occasionally comes in handy if I have to take my coat off but that's it. I don't feel the need to draw attention to myself or "show off my piece". Open carry provides no significant advantage and in fact could just end up getting you killed first.

For once I agree with you Anvil. I don't think open carry is a good idea. There are to many people that are afraid of or just don't like guns. Carrying open just makes these people uncomfortable. So when I carry I do so concealed.....

[musclehead]

Yeah that NRA piece is alarmist propaganda. As a 20 year member of the NRA I find it embarrassing.

Would Obama like to do away with guns? Well, maybe (although he's actually done nothing but loosen regulations but that's beside the point, innit?) But extinguishing the second amendment is a very complicated undertaking. It will take many years, not just a second term.

This 1st part is particularly laughable: "1. Neutralize gun owners and NRA voters as a political force in national elections,"

You might as well throw rocks at the moon. The gun lobby and ownership body here in America effectively ensures that it's practically impossible to make it a non-factor.

Man, some people are gullible.

Obama said he would support another 'assault weapons' ban, he campaigned on it. remember? I do.
an assault weapon in one persons mind is a deer rifle in anothers.

I don't remember that in particular but I just kind of assume he's not fond of them (assault weapons). Most Democrats are not.

But that's not the argument I'm making. What I'm saying is that whether or not he WANTS to undo the second amendment (and I don't know that he does) he doesn't have that power. I think that the NRA's alarmist approach often does more harm than good because it draws attention away from the real battlegrounds.

Don't blame Romney for the MA assault weapons ban. You have to understand just how complicated Massachusetts politics are. Also, I'm no Jethro Bodean fan but open carry is insanely overrated. We have it here in NH and it occasionally comes in handy if I have to take my coat off but that's it. I don't feel the need to draw attention to myself or "show off my piece". Open carry provides no significant advantage and in fact could just end up getting you killed first.

I'm the only conservative child in my family and Thanksgiving and Christmas are alot of fun. removing gun ownership has been a staple of the left as far as I can remember, every holiday spent with my siblings proves that they haven't abandoned it. I think losing the right to keep and bear arms is never more then a majority of voting Americans away, so far we have more gun owners then they have gun haters.

My family is widely varied in political opinions. My GP's are (or at least WERE before dubya) staunch Republicans. My mother is a typical liberal hippie a former labor union chief steward, former NH State Representative and personal friend of John Kerry. She is also a gun owner with a CCW permit.

wow, does she think it's ok for other people to own and CCW?  I hope so....

[Jess from VA]

Texas has concealed carry, Kansas has concealed and open.  I carry concealed and never open carry except when pistol hunting.  It is just me, but I think the only reason to carry openly if not hunting is for a ego boost of the carrier.  I have no animosity towards those that do carry openly, after all isn't that one of the reasons we ride Valkyries? I just don't carry openly because I don't wish others to know I am armed.   Hoser  

Exactly.  Other than State and Fed government officials (cops and others) and private security who go in uniform and purposefully advertise their armed status, I can see almost no advantage to it over concealed, but many disadvantages.

2d Amendment men have argued that the right of open-carry (in States that allow it) should be supported by people doing so, to head off anticipated attempts at removing open-carry from the laws (i.e. because nobody does it anymore).  And I understand and support such action.
http://opencarry.org/press.html    

But practically speaking I see little advantage in going around where everyone that sees me knows I'm armed.  Especially in any city, urban environment, the East or anywhere really.  Open carry has always been geographic in nature.  When it is a tool you might use like any other in a toolbelt, for 'snakes and coyotes and such' (West/prairie), then it seems perfectly reasonable.  

But anyplace I go where I definitely want to be armed (these are often not good places or OK places with occasional violent crime), on foot, I don't want anyone to know I'm armed.  I don't have eyes in the back of my head for any nut who might decide to just make a psychical grab for it (with a hammer).  Traditionally, drugs and guns are primary objects of criminal enterprise... someone might want my gun bad enough to get some friends help him try to take it.  It is carried for possible use of deadly force, and then telegraphing your punch to those you might use it against.  It is a tactical disadvantage, though it is more comfortable.

Open carry is lawful in VA, and in 18 yrs in the North/DC area, I've seen it done a couple times.  You REALLY stand out..... and I'm sure I would scare a good number of people, one of whom would call the constabulary, and I might have to answer questions and have my name taken down before going on my way.  Not me.

This is not to say that I couldn't change my mind if I changed my residence to the West/prairie where it is common, but I doubt it.

I think if I was a uniformed person (govt or private) in my job and went around in public all day from place to place (like a meter reader or UPS driver or postman), and I could still legally open carry (fat chance), I might do so (unless I could concealed carry).  


 

[fudgie]

I'm no Jethro Bodean fan but open carry is insanely overrated. We have it here in NH and it occasionally comes in handy if I have to take my coat off but that's it. I don't feel the need to draw attention to myself or "show off my piece". Open carry provides no significant advantage and in fact could just end up getting you killed first.

For once I agree with you Anvil. I don't think open carry is a good idea. There are to many people that are afraid of or just don't like guns. Carrying open just makes these people uncomfortable. So when I carry I do so concealed.....

Folks are afraid of the unknown. Its like the elephant man. Sure people are scared of him, but once you get to know him, its not all scary.  I'm afraid of car lifts. I will go near them, but not under them. Iv'e seen what happens. 
I make folks uncomfortable whether I'm armed or not! 

[RoadKill]

I'm no Jethro Bodean fan but open carry is insanely overrated. We have it here in NH and it occasionally comes in handy if I have to take my coat off but that's it. I don't feel the need to draw attention to myself or "show off my piece". Open carry provides no significant advantage and in fact could just end up getting you killed first.

For once I agree with you Anvil. I don't think open carry is a good idea. There are to many people that are afraid of or just don't like guns. Carrying open just makes these people uncomfortable. So when I carry I do so concealed.....

Folks are afraid of the unknown. Its like the elephant man. Sure people are scared of him, but once you get to know him, its not all scary.  I'm afraid of car lifts. I will go near them, but not under them. Iv'e seen what happens. 
I make folks uncomfortable whether I'm armed or not! 

It is not the gun that makes them uncomfortable,Fudgie...it's that grin and the way your eyes wander when you stand behind them! LOL

[The Anvil]

Yeah that NRA piece is alarmist propaganda. As a 20 year member of the NRA I find it embarrassing.

Would Obama like to do away with guns? Well, maybe (although he's actually done nothing but loosen regulations but that's beside the point, innit?) But extinguishing the second amendment is a very complicated undertaking. It will take many years, not just a second term.

This 1st part is particularly laughable: "1. Neutralize gun owners and NRA voters as a political force in national elections,"

You might as well throw rocks at the moon. The gun lobby and ownership body here in America effectively ensures that it's practically impossible to make it a non-factor.

Man, some people are gullible.

Obama said he would support another 'assault weapons' ban, he campaigned on it. remember? I do.
an assault weapon in one persons mind is a deer rifle in anothers.

I don't remember that in particular but I just kind of assume he's not fond of them (assault weapons). Most Democrats are not.

But that's not the argument I'm making. What I'm saying is that whether or not he WANTS to undo the second amendment (and I don't know that he does) he doesn't have that power. I think that the NRA's alarmist approach often does more harm than good because it draws attention away from the real battlegrounds.

Don't blame Romney for the MA assault weapons ban. You have to understand just how complicated Massachusetts politics are. Also, I'm no Jethro Bodean fan but open carry is insanely overrated. We have it here in NH and it occasionally comes in handy if I have to take my coat off but that's it. I don't feel the need to draw attention to myself or "show off my piece". Open carry provides no significant advantage and in fact could just end up getting you killed first.

I'm the only conservative child in my family and Thanksgiving and Christmas are alot of fun. removing gun ownership has been a staple of the left as far as I can remember, every holiday spent with my siblings proves that they haven't abandoned it. I think losing the right to keep and bear arms is never more then a majority of voting Americans away, so far we have more gun owners then they have gun haters.

My family is widely varied in political opinions. My GP's are (or at least WERE before dubya) staunch Republicans. My mother is a typical liberal hippie a former labor union chief steward, former NH State Representative and personal friend of John Kerry. She is also a gun owner with a CCW permit.

wow, does she think it's ok for other people to own and CCW?  I hope so....

Of course. The point I was trying to drive into your icy heart (joke) was that despite what you hear from the stuck-pig liberal mouthpieces, they do not speak for all liberals and all Democrats. But because of all of the hollering it makes it seem like all liberal Democrats are anti-2nd Amendment.

I myself have some left-leaning opinions and I would sleep with my guns if there were room in the bed. 

[RoadKill]

Yeah that NRA piece is alarmist propaganda. As a 20 year member of the NRA I find it embarrassing.

Would Obama like to do away with guns? Well, maybe (although he's actually done nothing but loosen regulations but that's beside the point, innit?) But extinguishing the second amendment is a very complicated undertaking. It will take many years, not just a second term.

This 1st part is particularly laughable: "1. Neutralize gun owners and NRA voters as a political force in national elections,"

You might as well throw rocks at the moon. The gun lobby and ownership body here in America effectively ensures that it's practically impossible to make it a non-factor.

Man, some people are gullible.

Obama said he would support another 'assault weapons' ban, he campaigned on it. remember? I do.
an assault weapon in one persons mind is a deer rifle in anothers.

I don't remember that in particular but I just kind of assume he's not fond of them (assault weapons). Most Democrats are not.

But that's not the argument I'm making. What I'm saying is that whether or not he WANTS to undo the second amendment (and I don't know that he does) he doesn't have that power. I think that the NRA's alarmist approach often does more harm than good because it draws attention away from the real battlegrounds.

Don't blame Romney for the MA assault weapons ban. You have to understand just how complicated Massachusetts politics are. Also, I'm no Jethro Bodean fan but open carry is insanely overrated. We have it here in NH and it occasionally comes in handy if I have to take my coat off but that's it. I don't feel the need to draw attention to myself or "show off my piece". Open carry provides no significant advantage and in fact could just end up getting you killed first.

I'm the only conservative child in my family and Thanksgiving and Christmas are alot of fun. removing gun ownership has been a staple of the left as far as I can remember, every holiday spent with my siblings proves that they haven't abandoned it. I think losing the right to keep and bear arms is never more then a majority of voting Americans away, so far we have more gun owners then they have gun haters.

My family is widely varied in political opinions. My GP's are (or at least WERE before dubya) staunch Republicans. My mother is a typical liberal hippie a former labor union chief steward, former NH State Representative and personal friend of John Kerry. She is also a gun owner with a CCW permit.

wow, does she think it's ok for other people to own and CCW?  I hope so....

Of course. The point I was trying to drive into your icy heart (joke) was that despite what you hear from the stuck-pig liberal mouthpieces, they do not speak for all liberals and all Democrats. But because of all of the hollering it makes it seem like all liberal Democrats are anti-2nd Amendment.

I myself have some left-leaning opinions and I would sleep with my guns if there were room in the bed. 

Get a bigger bed! DUH! 

[Hoser]

Fudgie, I didn't say I was against open carry, I just don't do it myself because I don't want other people to know I am armed. I open carry when I hunt cause I don't care if critters  know I 'm after them.    As for an ego boost, nuthin wrong with that, it is one of the reasons I ride a Valkyrie.  At least wish me a happy festivus if I don't get a christmas card, OK?    Hoser

[CajunRider]

So why is oc ok for hunting but not personal protection? 

I don't know Hoser's reasoning... and he has his right to whatever reasoning he uses.

However, I agree.  And my reasoning is that you don't want the criminal to KNOW you are carrying.  It gives him MORE of an already unfair advantage. 

The element of surprise is your friend.

[fudgie]

Fudgie, I didn't say I was against open carry, I just don't do it myself because I don't want other people to know I am armed. I open carry when I hunt cause I don't care if critters  know I 'm after them.    As for an ego boost, nuthin wrong with that, it is one of the reasons I ride a Valkyrie.  At least wish me a happy festivus if I don't get a christmas card, OK?    Hoser

I was just kiddin with ya. Happy holidays.