my last political post for the year

[musclehead]

I haven't been posting much of a political nature lately any way.

when I was a trainer a couple years ago I picked up a young man from Massachusetts, 24 years old and a full blown Obama supporter. I don't care about that to each their own, BUT he was so ignorant.
not just of his political views he didn't know much of anything. he was of the opinion that we should be able to tell people where they can and can't live in the country, he wanted all personal ownership of land on the coastline to be outlawed. (he was wacky).
he wanted to be a heavy equipment operator, so he could load up and haul the equipment from site to site.  but he thought the only manufacturer of construction equipment was Caterpillar. I told him uhh no there's terex, mitsubishi, Volvo, deer, and a few others I can't think of.
we passed a truck load of small diameter trees we used to affectionately call those 'pecker poles' in Oregon. he thought it was a shame those trees didn't get to grow up. I told him there are tons of products they can make with small trees.
we passed some choked up woods in Georgia, I said they needed to get in there and clear the undergrowth. he said no that forest is doing just fine. I said no it's not, they have wild fires here what you have is a step up for fire to crown and take it all out.
he said he couldn't wait to get to Florida and walk into the woods an pick some oranges, I said oranges don't grow in the woods, they grow in orchards.

he was a recent product of the public schools and no one challenged the drivel that was being pounded into his skull. it's a little scary so opinionated and so ignorant

[hubcapsc]

he thought it was a shame those trees didn't get to grow up

I'm with him - and I think it is a shame that people pick corn too!

-Mike "save the corn"

[jcoukos]

Try living in Massachusetts.  There's a  majority overbearing liberal bias view that gets whitewashed on every subject matter.  When I challenge people and walk them thru the logic all they can do is get angry and start name calling.  Like my friend says "You know you've won an argument with a liberal when they start yelling!"

It is sad to see that our educational system has failed us, but not the unions.   My brother is a teacher and all he ever says is that he's underpaid.  When I tell him that he is in a profession that is the highest paid on a hourly basis
he doesn't believe it.  Then I walk him thru his pension's future value of money thing and he's lost.  Of course, everything he does teaching and part time EMT / fireman must go into his retirement / pension calculations, as well as unpaid / accrued sick time and vacation time.   They have no concept of the real world were most of us slugs
have to eek out a living.  So may I conclude that you're young man is as bright as my brother?  Just sayin'

[czuch]

PEOPLE PICK CORN!!!!!!!!!!!!! Oh the huge Manatee!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I got into an argument/discussion with a recent graduate of San Diego State University at his grad party. The "State" of  Chicago was the topic. Not  as the State of the nation, but as if Chicago was the state. I tried to explain its not even the capitol, he wasnt having it and he wasnt messing with me either. I realized the futility and also that I was unarmed in the idiot argument arena.
Pray for our Country.

[musclehead]

this might help (doesn't sound like you guys need the help  )

[B-Taz]

Interesting post... and then...

he was a recent product of the public schools and no one challenged the drivel that was being pounded into his skull. it's a little scary so opinionated and so ignorant

Seriously, I'm so tired of this.  I am in my 3rd year now as a Physics teacher and I am really wondering when teachers and public schools became the villains here?!?  If you picture teachers as lazy people that make copies, hand out worksheets and babyset your kids you're wrong!  Oh and we get awesome time off and benefits too right?!?  Well the benefits are gone and how about that time off....

Well here is a story.  I was a supervisor at Best Buy before I bacame a teacher and MADE MORE MONEY DOING THAT than I do now.  I graduated with a B.S. in Physics from one of the best programs in the country.  In order to do this I have racked up a mortgage worth of student loans, oh yeah I also have to take 18 credits every 5 years in a grad program to remain "qualified" to teach.  I could have chosen to work as a scientist, engineer, etc and make waaaay more money, you know developing our weopons of mass destruction and all that, but I chose to teach because I have a passion for that.  They are taking more away from us and our own government and media who says they are for education make us out to be villains.  They pass legislation that makes absolutely no sense, force us into compliance and give us no extra resources to do this.

A colleague of mine taught in Japan for two years when she graduated, just to show you the difference in value of education...  She was a 2nd teacher in the classroom, taught two classes a day, had aides to grade papers and do all the busy work so all she had to focus on was how and what to teach.  She made the equivalent of $40,000 US a year as s STARTING salary, the school paid her transportation costs to and from school, subsidized her apartment and paid for 100% of any medical costs.

Teaching is not a normal job.  I can't come home and not be a teacher.  I work on average of 14-16 hours a day between grading, lesson planning, setting up/cleaning up labs coaching extra-curriculars.  When I am not doing that I am constantly thinking about how I can present this, how I can challenge Micah while still reaching Jill in the same class.  Oh and summers we go to conferences/school etc to become better teachers.  Do I deserve more than the $35,000 in salary I get a year... you're damn right I do.  But i don't complain about making more, just don't take away what we have and blame me for people not raising their kids.

If you really spent time in any school you will find more and more that I am not an exceptional teacher but pretty much the norm. 

"What a different world it would be if education got all the funding they needed and the government had to have bake sales to build battleships"

I support defense and recognize its importance but I think this is a powerful quote to think on...

[musclehead]

really? where do you teach? not all states in the country are equal, some school districts allow corporal punishment. I'm talking specifically Massachusetts, I wouldn't characterize this particular guy as a success story from public school.

[rmrc51]

Interesting post... and then...

he was a recent product of the public schools and no one challenged the drivel that was being pounded into his skull. it's a little scary so opinionated and so ignorant

Seriously, I'm so tired of this.  I am in my 3rd year now as a Physics teacher and I am really wondering when teachers and public schools became the villains here?!?  If you picture teachers as lazy people that make copies, hand out worksheets and babyset your kids you're wrong!  Oh and we get awesome time off and benefits too right?!?  Well the benefits are gone and how about that time off....

Well here is a story.  I was a supervisor at Best Buy before I bacame a teacher and MADE MORE MONEY DOING THAT than I do now.  I graduated with a B.S. in Physics from one of the best programs in the country.  In order to do this I have racked up a mortgage worth of student loans, oh yeah I also have to take 18 credits every 5 years in a grad program to remain "qualified" to teach.  I could have chosen to work as a scientist, engineer, etc and make waaaay more money, you know developing our weopons of mass destruction and all that, but I chose to teach because I have a passion for that.  They are taking more away from us and our own government and media who says they are for education make us out to be villains.  They pass legislation that makes absolutely no sense, force us into compliance and give us no extra resources to do this.

A colleague of mine taught in Japan for two years when she graduated, just to show you the difference in value of education...  She was a 2nd teacher in the classroom, taught two classes a day, had aides to grade papers and do all the busy work so all she had to focus on was how and what to teach.  She made the equivalent of $40,000 US a year as s STARTING salary, the school paid her transportation costs to and from school, subsidized her apartment and paid for 100% of any medical costs.

Teaching is not a normal job.  I can't come home and not be a teacher.  I work on average of 14-16 hours a day between grading, lesson planning, setting up/cleaning up labs coaching extra-curriculars.  When I am not doing that I am constantly thinking about how I can present this, how I can challenge Micah while still reaching Jill in the same class.  Oh and summers we go to conferences/school etc to become better teachers.  Do I deserve more than the $35,000 in salary I get a year... you're damn right I do.  But i don't complain about making more, just don't take away what we have and blame me for people not raising their kids.

If you really spent time in any school you will find more and more that I am not an exceptional teacher but pretty much the norm. 

"What a different world it would be if education got all the funding they needed and the government had to have bake sales to build battleships"

I support defense and recognize its importance but I think this is a powerful quote to think on...

I also work in a school district but "NOT" as a teacher, thank God! Everything Taz described regarding the responsibilities of his position are true! I see what these teachers have to put up with and the long hours they spend not only at school, but at home as well working on school preparation. To me there's no way I'd ever want that job! I take my hat off to all teachers because in my mind's eye, they really have to love what they do to put up with all of the BS they get from the students, parents and the insane state requirements!

[B-Taz]

really? where do you teach? not all states in the country are equal, some school districts allow corporal punishment. I'm talking specifically Massachusetts, I wouldn't characterize this particular guy as a success story from public school.

I teach in Michigan.  There is no doubt the kid was a moron but that doesn't mean it was the public schools who failed him.  Nothing is perfect including teachers and especially the school system but that probably wasn't the problem.  I can't believe I'm about to say this in my position but there is truth to the quote, "you can only polish a turd so much before your spreading around $***!"  Not that I would ever call a kid a turd... it makes the point.   

[musclehead]

really? where do you teach? not all states in the country are equal, some school districts allow corporal punishment. I'm talking specifically Massachusetts, I wouldn't characterize this particular guy as a success story from public school.

I teach in Michigan.  There is no doubt the kid was a moron but that doesn't mean it was the public schools who failed him.  Nothing is perfect including teachers and especially the school system but that probably wasn't the problem.  I can't believe I'm about to say this in my position but there is truth to the quote, "you can only polish a turd so much before your spreading around $***!"  Not that I would ever call a kid a turd... it makes the point.   

it's hard to define, he wasn't 'dumb' or a 'moron' he had fine mental abilities but he was kinda lazy. sooo opinionated but not in possesion of facts that made any sense. possibly a product of his home environment, but I don't think he was getting any help at school either.

remember educators are among the most respected carreers around. 

as far as spending goes...... well there seems to be an issue

http://www.mackinac.org/7761

[B-Taz]

I couldn't agree more.  From 1970 to 2000.  Education spending has gone up 30%.  How much has the cost of living gone up?!?  Is a house or car only 30% more than it was ion 1970?  I agree that money doesn't = success, however I can only imaine what I would be able to do with these kids with proper lab equipment, desks that aren't falling apart making them uncomfortable, a book that actually fits what I am suppose to teach them.  Oh and , I know this is a long shot but, if I wasn't exhausted from grading 120 tests the night before because I had an aide to do it.

I do agree with your point, the governement doesn't just want to throw money at education to fix it.  They would rather throw unrealistic laws at us to try to measure things that you can't measure that are dreamed up by some lawmaker that knows nothing of what it takes to teach a child.  I hope they have the right intentions but it's just wrong...  AND NOT give us any extra funds to try to meet these demands/comply with these laws.

i totally see your point, and there are TONS of things I would change about education.  I think there are far too many kids that somehow pass a grade when they should have failed.  But yet they get pushed on forward so by the time they get to me in 10th, 11th, 12th grade...  pshhh...  But that happens because my school's, and my, performance is measured partly by graduation rate so if a child fails or is held it refelcts poorly on the school and teacher. 

[B-Taz]

remember educators are among the most respected carreers around. 

I appreciate your point.  I'm just sensitive because lately, and I have only taught 2+ years, I sure feel like the bad guy.

[bscrive]

Hats off to you B-Taz for being a teacher, I sure as hell would not want the job.  I couldn't put up with the crap from the kids.  I would end up in jail.
As for the pay, some of the high school teachers I know here in Ottawa make a heck of a lot more than that and as for the summers, I don't see them going to seminars or anything during the summer.  They usually get a summer job to pass the time. 
My wife works just as hard, if not harder than them and she makes a little more than half of what they make and she does not get her summers off. 
If I were running things I would make sure schools ran 12 months of the year and teacher got 2-4 weeks off per year like the rest of us.  Kids do not need 2 months off each summer.

[stude31]

I have to say that the public school system has become a babysitting job with the babysitter having rules to follow and by no means can you lay a hand on a child to straighten them up.  I believe that the school district in my "city" is all about a business.  They teach to a state assessment test... Why? Because if the kids test high enough the school gets money? really.   I have ran into several of my school teachers since I have been out of school over 15 yrs and all of them retired because they were fed up with the direction of the hand was forcing them to teach.  As my second grade teacher and I talked just six months ago she told me that the teachers today are almost given a script to follow and leaves no room for a teacher to have there own way of teaching.  Everything is directed to a state assessment test which is like brainwashing your kids to think one way versus another.   Oh and the math.  I loved math in school.   Since when do we add from left to right?  How? and Why?  This is stupid and makes no sense.   Today's public schools (in my area), have surrendered to the Fed Gov't mandates and no one is questioning anything.  Oh and not to mention that we were lucky to get a day off school.  Now they have "teacher intersession" days once a month? Really?  Oh and how about kids not able to play dodgeball in gym because someone might get hit in the head? Really... We loved playing dodgeball my sister always would get a team and then I would get a team and we would play in recess all the time.  Now it is a big "no-no"....  

(stepping off soap box).    Not that I don't agree that teachers don't work all day and grade papers at night which I see first hand w/ my cousin.  But they're hands are tied because they have problem kids who cuss at them and nothing gets done.  The tolerance for teachers to put up with these delinquents is unbelievable.  

Not saying we don't have good teachers but we have school districts with heavy pockets at the top.  We pay way too much for the administrators of the school districts.

[BF]

I think this about sums it up........

JW - Citizenship Test! 2	powered by Aeva

JW - Know Your World	powered by Aeva

JW - Americana (External Embedding Disabled)

JW - History Quiz	powered by Aeva

And last but not least....

JW - Spring Break Pop Quiz	powered by Aeva

[The Anvil]

this might help (doesn't sound like you guys need the help  )

I assume from the title of the book that he's claiming to be an expert on the subject. I'm also thinking that he owns a LOT of mirrors.

Massachusetts is a strange state. Yes the eastern part of the state is a liberal stronghold, but go twenty minutes west of Worcester and it's a different world. People hunt, own guns and have even been known to vote Republican.

[scobob]

Maybe instead of complaining about what teachers make, look at why you don't get paid more. I have never had a job where I wasn't told they couldn't pay what I was asking. And I never left a job, where they did not ask if I could stay on for a little more money. The one percenters will alway tell you that paying more will ruin their business and then there will not be any jobs at all. They do not care about your job or their country, they only think about their pockets and how to fill them on your labor.

[Jeff K]

Oranges grow in groves, apples grow in orchards.

[musclehead]

this might help (doesn't sound like you guys need the help  )

I assume from the title of the book that he's claiming to be an expert on the subject. I'm also thinking that he owns a LOT of mirrors.

Massachusetts is a strange state. Yes the eastern part of the state is a liberal stronghold, but go twenty minutes west of Worcester and it's a different world. People hunt, own guns and have even been known to vote Republican.

he's probably like me owns mirrors but never uses them for fear of breakage 

[musclehead]

Oranges grow in groves, apples grow in orchards.

aww geez Jeff I don't know EVERYTHING 

(but now I know one more thing)

[Jeff K]

Maybe instead of complaining about what teachers make, look at why you don't get paid more. I have never had a job where I wasn't told they couldn't pay what I was asking. And I never left a job, where they did not ask if I could stay on for a little more money. The one percenters will alway tell you that paying more will ruin their business and then there will not be any jobs at all. They do not care about your job or their country, they only think about their pockets and how to fill them on your labor.

Your first post (or second) on the Valkyrie Board is this crap?
Welcome to the sandbox.  

Yes, I know this will be deleted... 

[PharmBoy]

Scobob, did you ever work for a poor man?  What do you have to offer any employer other than your time?  Why do you think your employer is in business?  In this country and most others, it is to make money.  There is no shame in making money and giving others a livable wage for their labor.  I think that the echonomic system in this country is called "Capitalism" where one who invests his time and money in starting a business venture is allowed to profit only if the venture is successful.  Most upstart businesses are doomed to failure for one reason or another.  I have worked for someone else for over 90% of my working life.  I have always thought that my only reason for having a job at all was so that I could make my employer money, otherwise, I would not have a check to take to the bank.  There have been days when I did not make my employer money and I have felt bad about that even though I did put in my time and did my best at my job...Jim  (Oh yes, I have nothing but praise for those who truly are called to teach and do their very best at the profession.) 

[musclehead]

Maybe instead of complaining about what teachers make, look at why you don't get paid more. I have never had a job where I wasn't told they couldn't pay what I was asking. And I never left a job, where they did not ask if I could stay on for a little more money. The one percenters will alway tell you that paying more will ruin their business and then there will not be any jobs at all. They do not care about your job or their country, they only think about their pockets and how to fill them on your labor.

one percenters huh? your talking to a ten percenter right now and solidly middle class (truck driver)

can you reformulate the post to reflect a cogent thought? I can't understand your Harvard talk.

and then explain to me why I should be all ticked off at CEO's pay/bonus but I should ignore how much money my government is throwing down a rat hole.

CEO pay doesn't cost me anything?

government waste fraud and abuse costing me plenty? 

(I've been wanting to get that off my chest)

[The Anvil]

CEO pay doesn't cost me anything?

government waste fraud and abuse costing me plenty? 

Both cost you money, especially when the CEO in question runs the company into the ground then the government has to bail the company out and then the CEO takes his salary and bonus from the bailout money.

Actually CEO salaries are overhead and that does affect the cost of many things regardless of whether government money is involved. When a CEO has a company going strong they earn every penny. Jack Welch in his tenure with GE is a good example. But as we've seen, these people often  make huge salaries even when they do a terrible job. Companies give CEO's bonuses when they slash labor forces under their watch. Oh yes, it costs all of us.

[Jeff K]

The CEO's only cost YOU money if you buy their products.
The simple solution is... don't buy their products, then it won't cost you a dime and you won't have to fret about how much those evil CEOs make.

CEO pay doesn't cost me anything?

government waste fraud and abuse costing me plenty? 

Both cost you money, especially when the CEO in question runs the company into the ground then the government has to bail the company out and then the CEO takes his salary and bonus from the bailout money.

Actually CEO salaries are overhead and that does affect the cost of many things regardless of whether government money is involved. When a CEO has a company going strong they earn every penny. Jack Welch in his tenure with GE is a good example. But as we've seen, these people often  make huge salaries even when they do a terrible job. Companies give CEO's bonuses when they slash labor forces under their watch. Oh yes, it costs all of us.

[The Anvil]

The CEO's only cost YOU money if you buy their products.
The simple solution is... don't buy their products, then it won't cost you a dime and you won't have to fret about how much those evil CEOs make.

CEO pay doesn't cost me anything?

government waste fraud and abuse costing me plenty? 

Both cost you money, especially when the CEO in question runs the company into the ground then the government has to bail the company out and then the CEO takes his salary and bonus from the bailout money.

Actually CEO salaries are overhead and that does affect the cost of many things regardless of whether government money is involved. When a CEO has a company going strong they earn every penny. Jack Welch in his tenure with GE is a good example. But as we've seen, these people often  make huge salaries even when they do a terrible job. Companies give CEO's bonuses when they slash labor forces under their watch. Oh yes, it costs all of us.

A.) You must have missed the part where I talk about the whole bailout thingy.

B.) We're all consumers of products made by mega-corporations. Try not doing it for a while and get back to me on how that works out for you.

Oh yes, it costs all of us. Whether you want to admit it or not.

[Jeff K]

The CEO's only cost YOU money if you buy their products.
The simple solution is... don't buy their products, then it won't cost you a dime and you won't have to fret about how much those evil CEOs make.

CEO pay doesn't cost me anything?

government waste fraud and abuse costing me plenty? 

Both cost you money, especially when the CEO in question runs the company into the ground then the government has to bail the company out and then the CEO takes his salary and bonus from the bailout money.

Actually CEO salaries are overhead and that does affect the cost of many things regardless of whether government money is involved. When a CEO has a company going strong they earn every penny. Jack Welch in his tenure with GE is a good example. But as we've seen, these people often  make huge salaries even when they do a terrible job. Companies give CEO's bonuses when they slash labor forces under their watch. Oh yes, it costs all of us.

A.) You must have missed the part where I talk about the whole bailout thingy.

B.) We're all consumers of products made by mega-corporations. Try not doing it for a while and get back to me on how that works out for you.

Oh yes, it costs all of us. Whether you want to admit it or not.

I don't have a problem with rich people, I work for rich people. You have a problem with rich people. You must work for poor people.

I have a problem with bail outs, not CEO's pay and bonuses.
If we didn't bail these people out they would die on the vine just like any small business that failed.
I had no problem watching GM go down the toilet. I buy Fords.

I'm a firm believer in survival of the fittest. The weak get left behind and eaten by the scavengers, and the herd gets stronger. We protect the weak so our herd is getting weaker.
Yes, I know, it's not the popular, caring way of thinking. I really don't give a rats ass.

[musclehead]

CEO pay doesn't cost me anything?

government waste fraud and abuse costing me plenty? 

Both cost you money, especially when the CEO in question runs the company into the ground then the government has to bail the company out and then the CEO takes his salary and bonus from the bailout money.

Actually CEO salaries are overhead and that does affect the cost of many things regardless of whether government money is involved. When a CEO has a company going strong they earn every penny. Jack Welch in his tenure with GE is a good example. But as we've seen, these people often  make huge salaries even when they do a terrible job. Companies give CEO's bonuses when they slash labor forces under their watch. Oh yes, it costs all of us.

we are on the same page, we both despise bailouts. I'm talking about an otherwise healthy company.
if the goods or services are out of line with competitors they lose business.

GE is a good example, of crony capitalism. they are the darlings of this administration.

[The Anvil]

The CEO's only cost YOU money if you buy their products.
The simple solution is... don't buy their products, then it won't cost you a dime and you won't have to fret about how much those evil CEOs make.

CEO pay doesn't cost me anything?

government waste fraud and abuse costing me plenty? 

Both cost you money, especially when the CEO in question runs the company into the ground then the government has to bail the company out and then the CEO takes his salary and bonus from the bailout money.

Actually CEO salaries are overhead and that does affect the cost of many things regardless of whether government money is involved. When a CEO has a company going strong they earn every penny. Jack Welch in his tenure with GE is a good example. But as we've seen, these people often  make huge salaries even when they do a terrible job. Companies give CEO's bonuses when they slash labor forces under their watch. Oh yes, it costs all of us.

A.) You must have missed the part where I talk about the whole bailout thingy.

B.) We're all consumers of products made by mega-corporations. Try not doing it for a while and get back to me on how that works out for you.

Oh yes, it costs all of us. Whether you want to admit it or not.

I don't have a problem with rich people, I work for rich people. You have a problem with rich people. You must work for poor people.

I have a problem with bail outs, not CEO's pay and bonuses.
If we didn't bail these people out they would die on the vine just like any small business that failed.
I had no problem watching GM go down the toilet. I buy Fords.

I'm a firm believer in survival of the fittest. The weak get left behind and eaten by the scavengers, and the herd gets stronger. We protect the weak so our herd is getting weaker.
Yes, I know, it's not the popular, caring way of thinking. I really don't give a rats ass.

Yeah, I work for poor people. If only you knew. 

I actually work for MEGA-rich people. I'm talking about people who can afford not one but TWO 40 million dollar business jets.

You have a reading comprehension problem. I said that when CEO's are running their companies well they deserve the money they get. The top CEO's are like elite pro athletes; they're the best in the world at what they do and that commands a high price. My problem is the incompetent ones who end up costing everyone else whether it's through direct government intervention or just by weakening American industry on the whole.

You see, your "survival of the fittest" scenario is not the way it works in that world. Some of these people take the helm, run the ship onto the rocks, say "oops" and then collect their millions and ride off into the sunset. Also sort of like some pro-athletes. But you're one of those people who has a new superhero worship thing going on for wealthy people. You have this great admiration for them and you don't even know why.

"I have a problem with bail outs, not CEO's pay and bonuses."

You should have a problem with both if they're connected. If you don't then there's something wrong with you.

[The Anvil]

CEO pay doesn't cost me anything?

government waste fraud and abuse costing me plenty? 

Both cost you money, especially when the CEO in question runs the company into the ground then the government has to bail the company out and then the CEO takes his salary and bonus from the bailout money.

Actually CEO salaries are overhead and that does affect the cost of many things regardless of whether government money is involved. When a CEO has a company going strong they earn every penny. Jack Welch in his tenure with GE is a good example. But as we've seen, these people often  make huge salaries even when they do a terrible job. Companies give CEO's bonuses when they slash labor forces under their watch. Oh yes, it costs all of us.

we are on the same page, we both despise bailouts. I'm talking about an otherwise healthy company.
if the goods or services are out of line with competitors they lose business.

GE is a good example, of crony capitalism. they are the darlings of this administration.

GE is a healthy corporation though. They have been long before Obama took office. Pick an administration and you can probably tie a few corporations to it.

[ricoman]

you have to wonder if his thinking/opinions will change as he becomes immersed in trying to make a living. he can still get in a couple semesters at the "School of hard knocks".

by the way, orange trees grow in orange groves, not orchards (at least here in FL)

[Quicksilver]

An orchard is an intentional planting of trees or shrubs that is maintained for food production. Orchards comprise fruit or nut-producing trees which are grown for commercial production. Oranges are grown in Orange Orchards commonly called groves. Hey you're both right as per Wiki.

Everyones a teacher, the best ones know more than their pupils and have a gift for reaching through all the missinformation to plant a little knowledge that might just grow into wisdom someday. I'd like to thank all the teachers in my past who made a sincere effort to get through to me whether I helped them or not.

[Jeff K]

The CEO's only cost YOU money if you buy their products.
The simple solution is... don't buy their products, then it won't cost you a dime and you won't have to fret about how much those evil CEOs make.

CEO pay doesn't cost me anything?

government waste fraud and abuse costing me plenty? 

Both cost you money, especially when the CEO in question runs the company into the ground then the government has to bail the company out and then the CEO takes his salary and bonus from the bailout money.

Actually CEO salaries are overhead and that does affect the cost of many things regardless of whether government money is involved. When a CEO has a company going strong they earn every penny. Jack Welch in his tenure with GE is a good example. But as we've seen, these people often  make huge salaries even when they do a terrible job. Companies give CEO's bonuses when they slash labor forces under their watch. Oh yes, it costs all of us.

A.) You must have missed the part where I talk about the whole bailout thingy.

B.) We're all consumers of products made by mega-corporations. Try not doing it for a while and get back to me on how that works out for you.

Oh yes, it costs all of us. Whether you want to admit it or not.

I don't have a problem with rich people, I work for rich people. You have a problem with rich people. You must work for poor people.

I have a problem with bail outs, not CEO's pay and bonuses.
If we didn't bail these people out they would die on the vine just like any small business that failed.
I had no problem watching GM go down the toilet. I buy Fords.

I'm a firm believer in survival of the fittest. The weak get left behind and eaten by the scavengers, and the herd gets stronger. We protect the weak so our herd is getting weaker.
Yes, I know, it's not the popular, caring way of thinking. I really don't give a rats ass.

Yeah, I work for poor people. If only you knew. 

I actually work for MEGA-rich people. I'm talking about people who can afford not one but TWO 40 million dollar business jets.

You have a reading comprehension problem. I said that when CEO's are running their companies well they deserve the money they get. The top CEO's are like elite pro athletes; they're the best in the world at what they do and that commands a high price. My problem is the incompetent ones who end up costing everyone else whether it's through direct government intervention or just by weakening American industry on the whole.

You see, your "survival of the fittest" scenario is not the way it works in that world. Some of these people take the helm, run the ship onto the rocks, say "oops" and then collect their millions and ride off into the sunset. Also sort of like some pro-athletes. But you're one of those people who has a new superhero worship thing going on for wealthy people. You have this great admiration for them and you don't even know why.

"I have a problem with bail outs, not CEO's pay and bonuses."

You should have a problem with both if they're connected. If you don't then there's something wrong with you.

But you're one of those people who has a new superhero worship thing going on for wealthy people. You have this great admiration for them and you don't even know why.

Now you are just making things up. You have no idea who I am, or who I "worship". I worship no one.



You have a problem with using personal attacks and insults toward anyone and everyone that you disagree with, and that would be everyone that isn't you.

Why do you come here, just to make enemies? you sure aren't making many friends.

I do believe the only person on this board that enjoys your posts is you.

[Jeff K]

I firmly believe in a tax on corporate jets and their upkeep. Mostly their upkeep. Lets say 100% tax on the value of the jet at the time of service. Seems fair to me.

[The Anvil]

Now you are just making things up. You have no idea who I am, or who I "worship". I worship no one.

Sort of like when you declared that I have "a problem with rich people". If you can attribute things to me based on assumptions then I can do the same to you.

You have a problem with using personal attacks and insults toward anyone and everyone that you disagree with, and that would be everyone that isn't you.

I did not personally attack you.

[Davet261]

Two things I have learned in life:

Do not talk politics or religion in bars, its a quick way to get your @ss kicked...............

[musclehead]

CEO pay doesn't cost me anything?

government waste fraud and abuse costing me plenty? 

Both cost you money, especially when the CEO in question runs the company into the ground then the government has to bail the company out and then the CEO takes his salary and bonus from the bailout money.

Actually CEO salaries are overhead and that does affect the cost of many things regardless of whether government money is involved. When a CEO has a company going strong they earn every penny. Jack Welch in his tenure with GE is a good example. But as we've seen, these people often  make huge salaries even when they do a terrible job. Companies give CEO's bonuses when they slash labor forces under their watch. Oh yes, it costs all of us.

we are on the same page, we both despise bailouts. I'm talking about an otherwise healthy company.
if the goods or services are out of line with competitors they lose business.

GE is a good example, of crony capitalism. they are the darlings of this administration.

GE is a healthy corporation though. They have been long before Obama took office. Pick an administration and you can probably tie a few corporations to it.

I'm betting they were in bed with Bush too. Imelt is on the jobs board Obama put together

MF global was a healthy company until Corzine made 1 (1) count it 1!!! bad, extremely risky, investment that he put ZERO of his own dollars into. 

[BigAl]

Some of these kids are self educated.

Watch CNN and Oprah enough, your brain goes into rot mode and never returns.